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Post by Billy the kid on Sept 17, 2024 21:45:51 GMT
My theory is that Jon Coates misheard Walters' takeaway order as Chop Shuey. under rated post/. |
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Post by Billy the kid on Sept 17, 2024 21:48:18 GMT
The strategy of appointing a young, promising, head coach and bringing in young, exciting players with the ability to grow is a good one. It does however, almost certainly lead to inconsistent performances and results in the early stages of the plan. I have been critical of many of our performances under Schuey. There have been times when he made bizarre selection and tactical choices. He sometimes asked players to perform roles that they clearly did not have the ability to fulfil. He was prone to over adjusting to counter some perceived strength of the opposition, rather than focussing on our strengths, and he has been out-coached at half time far too many times. All that said, I think he had shown that he could learn from his mistakes. The strategy we seemed to be taking was one that needed time. I'm not sure we gave Schuey that time. We seem to be courting an even younger, less experienced coach; will we give him time? Will we fuck, he has 6 games. |
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Post by Billy the kid on Sept 17, 2024 21:50:59 GMT
I still say (although it sounds dinosaur-esque) that if there is a nucleus of local lads in the squad it gives a certain DNA quality / loyalty / identity which ‘outsiders’ cannot bring to the table - I’m not talking about majority of the squad or anything like that, just 5 or 6 would be nice, Sol is a good start - I know Tom Edwards didn’t quite work out but before him there was Wilko and Carl Dickinson who were very popular as was Ryan Shotton then not so long ago Paul Ware/Carl Beeston and before then Bould, Heath, Chamberlains, Chapman, Crooks, etc etc Where there is a will and determination it CAN happen. There’s a really excellent exciting 10 yr old striker who was in my grandson’s Sunday team, you’ve guessed it - Prem clubs fighting over him and he now goes to Man City twice per week. Why can’t Stoke be in for kids like that? Is there a local scouting system or will it focus mainly on certain places in U.K./ on continent? then not so long ago Paul Ware/Carl Beeston ---- over 35 years ago..... fuck me |
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Post by lordb on Sept 17, 2024 21:57:11 GMT
When is the draw?
And I'd it an open draw now or still north/south?
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 17, 2024 22:12:28 GMT
The strategy of appointing a young, promising, head coach and bringing in young, exciting players with the ability to grow is a good one. It does however, almost certainly lead to inconsistent performances and results in the early stages of the plan. I have been critical of many of our performances under Schuey. There have been times when he made bizarre selection and tactical choices. He sometimes asked players to perform roles that they clearly did not have the ability to fulfil. He was prone to over adjusting to counter some perceived strength of the opposition, rather than focussing on our strengths, and he has been out-coached at half time far too many times. All that said, I think he had shown that he could learn from his mistakes. The strategy we seemed to be taking was one that needed time. I'm not sure we gave Schuey that time. We seem to be courting an even younger, less experienced coach; will we give him time? Great post. I was looking forward to seeing how a young, promising coach with a pretty exciting group of young players would develop over the course of the season. I was not expecting anything spectacular (a mid-table finish would be progress compared to the previous six years) and fully anticipated lots of mistakes and inconsistency. However, that was something I was prepared to accept as long as we were building something and had a long-term vision in mind. It is strange. We used to be a club that gave managers time. Now we seem to have gone the opposite way. |
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Post by LH_SCFC on Sept 17, 2024 22:14:25 GMT
When is the draw? And I'd it an open draw now or still north/south? Saints beat Everton and PNE beat Fulham this evening. It’s East vs West in the next round then alphabetical order. |
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 18, 2024 6:04:01 GMT
They are as mighty as to what we have been reduced by having clueless and talentless people like Steven Schumacher as managers They are. After we've had a long spell under the same people who've now handed all the power to Jhonny Walters. Yes the Johnny Walters who had the balls and acumen to take a decision immediately rather than dilly-dally till the end of the season |
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Post by idle on Sept 18, 2024 6:29:14 GMT
They are. After we've had a long spell under the same people who've now handed all the power to Jhonny Walters. Yes the Johnny Walters who had the balls and acumen to take a decision immediately rather than dilly-dally till the end of the season Then he should have done it in June. 5 games into the season is Watford-esque. He's already dallied, and it doesn't bode well. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 18, 2024 7:29:20 GMT
Yes the Johnny Walters who had the balls and acumen to take a decision immediately rather than dilly-dally till the end of the season Then he should have done it in June. 5 games into the season is Watford-esque. He's already dallied, and it doesn't bode well. I think there are three possibilities: 1 Walters came into the season thinking Schumacher was the man for the Job and after 5 games changed his mind. That is indeed decisive but it's also batshit crazy. I doubt that's what happened and I certainly hope it isn't. 2 Walters came into the season thinking Schumacher was the man for the job and something kicked off big time behind the scenes and Walters made the call. There are rumours of this happening and depending on what happened could well justify the decision. 3 Walters wasn't convinced Schumacher was the man for the job but gave him the summer and 5 games to prove him wrong. As you say that's the exact opposite of being decisive, the timing is awful. I hope 2 is what happened because 1 and 3 would be really concerning - we either have a trigger happy DoF who will fire people on a whim or somebody who dithers and won't make the big calls at the right time. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 18, 2024 7:48:16 GMT
Then he should have done it in June. 5 games into the season is Watford-esque. He's already dallied, and it doesn't bode well. I think there are three possibilities: 1 Walters came into the season thinking Schumacher was the man for the Job and after 5 games changed his mind. That is indeed decisive but it's also batshit crazy. I doubt that's what happened and I certainly hope it isn't. 2 Walters came into the season thinking Schumacher was the man for the job and something kicked off big time behind the scenes and Walters made the call. There are rumours of this happening and depending on what happened could well justify the decision. 3 Walters wasn't convinced Schumacher was the man for the job but gave him the summer and 5 games to prove him wrong. As you say that's the exact opposite of being decisive, the timing is awful. I hope 2 is what happened because 1 and 3 would be really concerning - we either have a trigger happy DoF who will fire people on a whim or somebody who dithers and won't make the big calls at the right time. Sadly I think we have an inexperienced DOF who has made a complete hash of his first big call. Sacked someone with no sensible justification from your average fans point of view. So immediately the optics are bad. No groundswell of fan opinion saying we need to change the manager. There was an opportunity for the 2 of them to build something together gaining valuable experience and Walters has failed to manage his most important employee. Better work out with Pelach or Walters is gonna look a bigger twat than he does right now. Fucking hell Stoke🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ |
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Post by cousindupree on Sept 18, 2024 7:52:18 GMT
Shuey 5 not so super johnny Walters 1
From a 5 star showing at Boro to a div 2 perforamnce against Fleetwood. Doesn't bode well.
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Post by Linx on Sept 18, 2024 7:55:30 GMT
What disappoints me about the whole affair is that I was hoping that the Schumacher appointment would bring some much-needed stability to the club. Things looked fine a week ago, with promising young players, proven senior players, and people had been saying that this season felt ‘different’ and that we could at last aspire towards promotion, or at least a competitive approach, rather than survival or consolidation. Those new arrivals like Seko and Cannon must feel as bewildered as most of the fan base.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 18, 2024 7:59:45 GMT
I think there are three possibilities: 1 Walters came into the season thinking Schumacher was the man for the Job and after 5 games changed his mind. That is indeed decisive but it's also batshit crazy. I doubt that's what happened and I certainly hope it isn't. 2 Walters came into the season thinking Schumacher was the man for the job and something kicked off big time behind the scenes and Walters made the call. There are rumours of this happening and depending on what happened could well justify the decision. 3 Walters wasn't convinced Schumacher was the man for the job but gave him the summer and 5 games to prove him wrong. As you say that's the exact opposite of being decisive, the timing is awful. I hope 2 is what happened because 1 and 3 would be really concerning - we either have a trigger happy DoF who will fire people on a whim or somebody who dithers and won't make the big calls at the right time. Sadly I think we have an inexperienced DOF who has made a complete hash of his first big call. Sacked someone with no sensible justification from your average fans point of view. So immediately the optics are bad. No groundswell of fan opinion saying we need to change the manager. There was an opportunity for the 2 of them to build something together gaining valuable experience and Walters has failed to manage his most important employee. Better work out with Pelach or Walters is gonna look a bigger twat than he does right now. Fucking hell Stoke🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ You and I don't know what happened behind the scenes and its perfectly possible that Walter's decision to sack Schumacher was justified. You are just making the assumption that it wasn't. |
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 18, 2024 8:46:18 GMT
They are. After we've had a long spell under the same people who've now handed all the power to Jhonny Walters. Yes the Johnny Walters who had the balls and acumen to take a decision immediately rather than dilly-dally till the end of the season The same Walters who has no football managerial experience sacking a previously successful manager with experience. Just doesn't sit well with me. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 18, 2024 9:00:50 GMT
Sadly I think we have an inexperienced DOF who has made a complete hash of his first big call. Sacked someone with no sensible justification from your average fans point of view. So immediately the optics are bad. No groundswell of fan opinion saying we need to change the manager. There was an opportunity for the 2 of them to build something together gaining valuable experience and Walters has failed to manage his most important employee. Better work out with Pelach or Walters is gonna look a bigger twat than he does right now. Fucking hell Stoke🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ You and I don't know what happened behind the scenes and its perfectly possible that Walter's decision to sack Schumacher was justified. You are just making the assumption that it wasn't. Whatever has happened Walters has made a hash of it. I had completely no issue with Walters whatsoever other than questioning his experience. Along comes his first big call and he's gone all hard man. Results not at a point where its justifiable to sack a manager that they brought in with a specific purpose to be given a bit of time to build a young squad. And to do so off the back of the last fucking mess JC and AN left. Do not forget that mess cos its very important in the assessment of this new debacle. Walters is clueless and I'm starting to realise this looking back at some of his interviews. He's got a massive ego and is always itching to give it the hard man. He has issues.. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 18, 2024 9:12:11 GMT
You and I don't know what happened behind the scenes and its perfectly possible that Walter's decision to sack Schumacher was justified. You are just making the assumption that it wasn't. Whatever has happened Walters has made a hash of it. I had completely no issue with Walters whatsoever other than questioning his experience. Along comes his first big call and he's gone all hard man. Results not at a point where its justifiable to sack a manager that they brought in with a specific purpose to be given a bit of time to build a young squad. And to do so off the back of the last fucking mess JC and AN left. Do not forget that mess cos its very important in the assessment of this new debacle. Walters is clueless and I'm starting to realise this looking back at some of his interviews. He's got a massive ego and is always itching to give it the hard man. He has issues.. So you are saying regardless of what happened Walters was wrong to sack Schumacher? That's nonsense - some things are sackable offences. I don't know what happened behind the scenes and neither do you but it's perfectly possible that Walters had good reason to sack him. The mess left by JC and Alex Neil has absolutely nothing to do with John Walters - he wasn't even here. You have just taken against Walters and using him as the fall guy. You may be right but ruling out all other possibilities and basing everything on your (retrospective) character assessment is just guesswork and prejudice on your part. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 18, 2024 9:20:49 GMT
Whatever has happened Walters has made a hash of it. I had completely no issue with Walters whatsoever other than questioning his experience. Along comes his first big call and he's gone all hard man. Results not at a point where its justifiable to sack a manager that they brought in with a specific purpose to be given a bit of time to build a young squad. And to do so off the back of the last fucking mess JC and AN left. Do not forget that mess cos its very important in the assessment of this new debacle. Walters is clueless and I'm starting to realise this looking back at some of his interviews. He's got a massive ego and is always itching to give it the hard man. He has issues.. So you are saying regardless of what happened Walters was wrong to sack Schumacher? That's nonsense - some things are sackable offences. I don't know what happened behind the scenes and neither do you but it's perfectly possible that Walters had good reason to sack him. The mess left by JC and Alex Neil has absolutely nothing to do with John Walters - he wasn't even here. You have just taken against Walters and using him as the fall guy. You may be right but ruling out all other possibilities and basing everything on your (retrospective) character assessment is just guesswork and prejudice on your part. Where did I blame Walters for the AN mess? I'm highlighting that Schumacher had an unholy fucking mess to sort out. Was tasked with doing that and building this young new side. What John has done this last couple of days is undo all that by sacking someone who has an okay record results wise and arguably much better than okay given the clown show that is Stoke nowadays. So Schumacher has turned around and called him a kunt or something. Manage it then Walters. Show your ability to influence people, show leadership. Dont have a paddy and let the power go to your head with a you're sacked mate tarra. Shit optics and rank poor management of a situation. Hes failed this test. This new call better be a fucking good one or he's toast support wise. Most fans aren't stupid, they can spot a wrong un.. |
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Post by greenhoff on Sept 18, 2024 9:21:50 GMT
Yes the Johnny Walters who had the balls and acumen to take a decision immediately rather than dilly-dally till the end of the season The same Walters who has no football managerial experience sacking a previously successful manager with experience. Just doesn't sit well with me. The same Jon Walter’s who has a long playing career at all levels. Who has FIFA coaching licences and a Master’s in Spirts Directorship. I’d say he’s well qualified |
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 18, 2024 9:30:39 GMT
The same Walters who has no football managerial experience sacking a previously successful manager with experience. Just doesn't sit well with me. The same Jon Walter’s who has a long playing career at all levels. Who has FIFA coaching licences and a Master’s in Spirts Directorship. I’d say he’s well qualified Yep, well qualified but no experience which is what I said. Having been managed then taking on the role of a manager myself ( in business) I am aware of the huge difference |
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 18, 2024 9:50:40 GMT
The same Walters who has no football managerial experience sacking a previously successful manager with experience. Just doesn't sit well with me. The same Jon Walter’s who has a long playing career at all levels. Who has FIFA coaching licences and a Master’s in Spirts Directorship. I’d say he’s well qualified Knows the club. |
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 18, 2024 10:03:36 GMT
Although the league table doesn't mean much at this stage of the season, the 3 defeats were against teams in positions 1, 5 and 7.
By any measurement the sacking of SS was a harsh decision.
We even gave Nathan Jones 38 games with a win ratio of15.79%.
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Post by Meirparkstokie on Sept 18, 2024 10:10:22 GMT
By all accounts, apparently they had a disagreement over Koumas. Whether it was because he was dropped for the likes of Gooch, and whether it was Schuey being a bit stubborn by choosing players that Walters will not have signed...
My friend who works at the club at academy level said he went in CW on Sunday morning, thought it was strange because Schuey and Gooch's car was still on the car park from Saturday.
Either way i dont think we'll ever know the true story...
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Post by stokecitytalke on Sept 18, 2024 10:16:25 GMT
Although the league table doesn't mean much at this stage of the season, the 3 defeats were against teams in positions 1, 5 and 7. By any measurement the sacking of SS was a harsh decision. We even gave Nathan Jones 38 games with a win ratio of15.79%. But are they in positions 1, 5 and 7 because they beat us? You can move up loads of places in the table this early in the season. |
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 18, 2024 10:25:32 GMT
Although the league table doesn't mean much at this stage of the season, the 3 defeats were against teams in positions 1, 5 and 7. By any measurement the sacking of SS was a harsh decision. We even gave Nathan Jones 38 games with a win ratio of15.79%. But are they in positions 1, 5 and 7 because they beat us? You can move up loads of places in the table this early in the season. Yes but West Brom and Watford are likely to be up there in the promotion pack come the end of the season. These were difficult games and defeats should not have caused anyone to panic. We stood 13th in the table with everything still to play for. A poor decision to sack SS after just 5 games of the season, in my opinion. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 18, 2024 10:50:49 GMT
I really don't know what side of the fence I'm on with it but have been interested to read everyone's takes.
What I do find interesting is that for the first time since relegation, every fan seems to universally NOT wanted SS to have been sacked.
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Post by vidigoals on Sept 18, 2024 10:57:52 GMT
I really don't know what side of the fence I'm on with it but have been interested to read everyone's takes. What I do find interesting is that for the first time since relegation, every fan seems to universally NOT wanted SS to have been sacked. I wouldn't go that far, I think a few are pleased he's been sacked. I've said that I liked him a lot and was by no means calling for his head, but questions had to be asked after that line-up and such a dire, half-hearted performance - it was pathetic. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 18, 2024 11:12:00 GMT
I really don't know what side of the fence I'm on with it but have been interested to read everyone's takes. What I do find interesting is that for the first time since relegation, every fan seems to universally NOT wanted SS to have been sacked. I wouldn't go that far, I think a few are pleased he's been sacked. I've said that I liked him a lot and was by no means calling for his head, but questions had to be asked after that line-up and such a dire, half-hearted performance - it was pathetic. Yes similar for me but nobody really wanted him sacked. |
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Post by Waggy on Sept 18, 2024 11:52:15 GMT
The Oxford performance was a shocker. That was on the players not the manager. Would not shock me if there was an argument pre match. Wish they would think of the fans.
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Post by karl on Sept 18, 2024 12:07:33 GMT
As much of a shock at the time I think it's the right call. We could have waited until Christmas to see if results would have improved but by then the season would have been over as we would be too far behind the top 6.
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Post by colderpotter on Sept 18, 2024 13:05:16 GMT
A surprise but not exactly like losing Alex Ferguson is it. If we improve it was the right decision. If we're relegated we'll never know.
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