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Post by kustokie on Sept 17, 2024 14:06:45 GMT
Ive heard that there was a huge arguement with JW and SS, like alluded too on here was all about team selections and SS was annoyed he was quizzed on it. SS didnt get the bus back to Stoke apparantly on Saturday either which may just be a coincendence. Whether you agree or disagree with the team selection JW interfering over it isnt a good look Hasn't this already been debunked several times on here already (with none other than the dude that posts on here who's Schumacher's cousin saying it's bollocks)? If it was a bust up about player selection I tend to agree. We bought in good players like Koumas but left them on the bench on Saturday. I understand we had three games in six days but the league should be a priority. |
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Post by kerouac on Sept 17, 2024 14:12:02 GMT
I. like many liked SS. and think he has the potential to become a decent coach in this league and maybe even above. At the time I thought it was a decent shout by Coates. He is at the moment on a par with many of the young coaches in the Champ and certainly no worse than many. It shouldn't be forgotten that he promoted Plymouth, a bit of a backwater club with over 100pts against some serious opposition in league 1. Even Alex Neil couldn't manage that with a superior squad at Sunderland. I wish him well and pretty sure he will be back managing very soon. Which coaches do you think he is on a par with? In 5 games this season we have been out thought at half time, generally by the opposition stepping up ten years to squeeze us. After Oxford and Watford scored, both times we collapsed for about 20 minutes. And our substitutions have been chaotic, the Ennis/Tezgel double switch on Saturday was baffling as was moving Laurent to centre back in an earlier game. I could not detect any sign of an identity or pattern of play emerging after 9 months. I genuinely couldn't see on Saturday how we thought we might score nor how we wanted to link to Cannon. In my view our coaching has been very poor for months Spot on Chiswick,and I think when the dust has settled,this is what most sensible folk will realise. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 17, 2024 14:23:46 GMT
Which coaches do you think he is on a par with? In 5 games this season we have been out thought at half time, generally by the opposition stepping up ten years to squeeze us. After Oxford and Watford scored, both times we collapsed for about 20 minutes. And our substitutions have been chaotic, the Ennis/Tezgel double switch on Saturday was baffling as was moving Laurent to centre back in an earlier game. I could not detect any sign of an identity or pattern of play emerging after 9 months. I genuinely couldn't see on Saturday how we thought we might score nor how we wanted to link to Cannon. In my view our coaching has been very poor for months Spot on Chiswick,and I think when the dust has settled,this is what most sensible folk will realise. Yet still picked up 15 points in his last 8 league games. That gives you nearly 90 points in a season. They have not been fair to him time wise. Something major has happened in this supposed fall out. Cool heads would not have done what Walters has done. We have a rogue DOF if yoos ask me. Billy big bollox.. |
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Post by onepara on Sept 17, 2024 14:30:41 GMT
Which coaches do you think he is on a par with? In 5 games this season we have been out thought at half time, generally by the opposition stepping up ten years to squeeze us. After Oxford and Watford scored, both times we collapsed for about 20 minutes. And our substitutions have been chaotic, the Ennis/Tezgel double switch on Saturday was baffling as was moving Laurent to centre back in an earlier game. I could not detect any sign of an identity or pattern of play emerging after 9 months. I genuinely couldn't see on Saturday how we thought we might score nor how we wanted to link to Cannon. In my view our coaching has been very poor for months Spot on Chiswick,and I think when the dust has settled,this is what most sensible folk will realise. Not wishing to be boastful (although I know I am) but I told one of my sons that Schuey wouldn't last past October. As a long time Stoke City supporter, I want what's best for the Club & it's supporters. I thought early on that he wouldn't give us that. That's with the hindsight of seeing many of our Managers over beyond 70 years. Who knows how well the next one will do, but Stoke City is in my blood & I won't be saying, like some on here, that "that's me finished" when things don't go as I would like. I get exasperated like many others, but I'm still here & will be, as long as my body allows. |
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Sept 17, 2024 14:33:19 GMT
I liked him but let's not forget that he left a very stable club at a very bad time to come and join us. Also remember that Ricky Martin, who we now pretty much all recognize as being full of crap and thick, was the man who persuaded him to join.
It's a brutal industry and he will have been paid off well, with a reputation intact enough to get another championship job I imagine. For me, he seemed a decent bloke and a natural leader but I never got the impression he was anything special tactically. Wish him all the best anyway!
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Post by stokeymad on Sept 17, 2024 14:34:17 GMT
Spot on Chiswick,and I think when the dust has settled,this is what most sensible folk will realise. Yet still picked up 15 points in his last 8 league games. That gives you nearly 90 points in a season. They have not been fair to him time wise. Something major has happened in this supposed fall out. Cool heads would not have done what Walters has done. We have a rogue DOF if yoos ask me. Billy big bollox.. I don't get this idea of including points from previous seasons. He has picked up 6 points from 15. Using your same logic, that gives you 55 points this season. That would give us a finish anywhere from 16th to 19th realistically. |
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Post by lordb on Sept 17, 2024 14:35:53 GMT
Yet still picked up 15 points in his last 8 league games. That gives you nearly 90 points in a season. They have not been fair to him time wise. Something major has happened in this supposed fall out. Cool heads would not have done what Walters has done. We have a rogue DOF if yoos ask me. Billy big bollox.. I don't get this idea of including points from previous seasons. He has picked up 6 points from 15. Using your same logic, that gives you 55 points this season. That would give us a finish anywhere from 16th to 19th realistically. Would suggest that it's too few games to judge |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 17, 2024 14:38:18 GMT
Yet still picked up 15 points in his last 8 league games. That gives you nearly 90 points in a season. They have not been fair to him time wise. Something major has happened in this supposed fall out. Cool heads would not have done what Walters has done. We have a rogue DOF if yoos ask me. Billy big bollox.. I don't get this idea of including points from previous seasons. He has picked up 6 points from 15. Using your same logic, that gives you 55 points this season. That would give us a finish anywhere from 16th to 19th realistically. But you don't sack someone after 5 games when he's won 2 of them. So you have to look into last season to get some meaningful data. However you wanna look at it Walters has gone way early on pulling the trigger. And he's shown he hasn't the ability to manage his head coach amicably. Its a massive warning sign about Walters. Who I'm beginning to think is a bit of a wanker. |
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Post by drfishy on Sept 17, 2024 14:38:45 GMT
With SS and all his team gone who/ what are we short of in terms of coaching etc? GK coach, data analysis,?,?,?
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Post by stokeymad on Sept 17, 2024 14:40:41 GMT
I don't get this idea of including points from previous seasons. He has picked up 6 points from 15. Using your same logic, that gives you 55 points this season. That would give us a finish anywhere from 16th to 19th realistically. Would suggest that it's too few games to judge I can see why you think that, but I disagree. Coventry - lucky to win Watford - Embarrassing WBA - Outplayed at home Plymouth - Quite an open game, but it had nil nil written all over it until Million stepped up Oxford - Disgusting And for him to have quality players at his disposal but to persist with tactics they don't understand and players out of position when there is better on the bench, he basically signed his own P45. |
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 17, 2024 14:47:44 GMT
Which coaches do you think he is on a par with? In 5 games this season we have been out thought at half time, generally by the opposition stepping up ten years to squeeze us. After Oxford and Watford scored, both times we collapsed for about 20 minutes. And our substitutions have been chaotic, the Ennis/Tezgel double switch on Saturday was baffling as was moving Laurent to centre back in an earlier game. I could not detect any sign of an identity or pattern of play emerging after 9 months. I genuinely couldn't see on Saturday how we thought we might score nor how we wanted to link to Cannon. In my view our coaching has been very poor for months Spot on Chiswick,and I think when the dust has settled,this is what most sensible folk will realise. Our coaching seems to have been poor for about seven years , even from managers who can coach well it appears at other clubs, maybe the issue isnt the coaching |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 17, 2024 14:51:59 GMT
Spot on Chiswick,and I think when the dust has settled,this is what most sensible folk will realise. Our coaching seems to have been poor for about seven years , even from managers who can coach well it appears at other clubs, maybe the issue isnt the coaching I suspect you're right. It goes deeper than just poor managerial appointments time and time again. I posted this after Leicester had done us 5-0 at home last season... "I've never lost three successive games...that was my heaviest defeat as manager"....Welcome to Stoke City, Steven. Destroying managers' careers since 2017. I wasn't wrong. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 17, 2024 14:53:21 GMT
Would suggest that it's too few games to judge I can see why you think that, but I disagree. Coventry - lucky to win Watford - Embarrassing WBA - Outplayed at home Plymouth - Quite an open game, but it had nil nil written all over it until Million stepped up Oxford - Disgusting And for him to have quality players at his disposal but to persist with tactics they don't understand and players out of position when there is better on the bench, he basically signed his own P45. Its funny how wins suddenly become lucky ones. We battered Coventry first half and should have been out of sight at half time. We were under a lot of pressure 2nd half but still found a way to score a cracking goal despite that pressure and rightfully bagged the 3 points. Plymouth was a decent away win where we created a lot and dealt with their pressure to take 3 away points. The 3 defeats in between have been pretty poor with mistakes made. You don't sack a manager after 5 games having won 2 of them. Its unfair and sends a message to potential new HC targets that we have a wanker of a DOF |
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Post by mtrstudent on Sept 17, 2024 14:56:04 GMT
Spot on Chiswick,and I think when the dust has settled,this is what most sensible folk will realise. Our coaching seems to have been poor for about seven years , even from managers who can coach well it appears at other clubs, maybe the issue isnt the coaching Yeah wtf happens. After MON walking football I was excited to hear of AN's tactical nous but... It was mostly statues ahead of the ball with 1-2 runners at a time. Fucking useless. I thought Schuey was better and just needed time because of all the youth. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Sept 17, 2024 14:57:23 GMT
You don't sack a manager after 5 games having won 2 of them. Its unfair and sends a message to potential new HC targets that we have a wanker of a DOF Good post about the performances. I hadn't thought of the messaging to potential recruits. If I were going for the job now I would want a steel-clad contract with massive payouts guaranteed. |
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Post by stokeymad on Sept 17, 2024 14:57:49 GMT
I can see why you think that, but I disagree. Coventry - lucky to win Watford - Embarrassing WBA - Outplayed at home Plymouth - Quite an open game, but it had nil nil written all over it until Million stepped up Oxford - Disgusting And for him to have quality players at his disposal but to persist with tactics they don't understand and players out of position when there is better on the bench, he basically signed his own P45. Its funny how wins suddenly become lucky ones. We battered Coventry first half and should have been out of sight at half time. We were under a lot of pressure 2nd half but still found a way to score a cracking goal despite that pressure and rightfully bagged the 3 points. Plymouth was a decent away win where we created a lot and dealt with their pressure to take 3 away points. The 3 defeats in between have been pretty poor with mistakes made. You don't sack a manager after 5 games having won 2 of them. Its unfair and sends a message to potential new HC targets that we have a wanker of a DOF Respectfully disagree. You seem to be coming from a position of your feelings against SJW. But we will agree to disagree. |
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Post by lordb on Sept 17, 2024 14:58:23 GMT
Would suggest that it's too few games to judge I can see why you think that, but I disagree. Coventry - lucky to win Watford - Embarrassing WBA - Outplayed at home Plymouth - Quite an open game, but it had nil nil written all over it until Million stepped up Oxford - Disgusting And for him to have quality players at his disposal but to persist with tactics they don't understand and players out of position when there is better on the bench, he basically signed his own P45. Coventry, should have been winnyat HT quite clearly, second half they didn't lay a glove on us Watford, embarrassing Albion,first half was a good game,3 big changes each,how Million doesn't score is astonishing, second half we didn't lay a glove on them ,fair play Albion shut up shop which was enough but outplayed,bollocks Plymouth, entertaining game, should have been winning at HT Oxford, disgusting And you've ignored the two cup wins But of a pattern with poor second halves (Inc Watford) and not taking chances We then sign a goalscorer and after one game we sack the manager It's way too small a sample to be definitive and we are a laughing stock in football atm with our ludicrous policy of knee jerk sackings in August/September |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 17, 2024 14:59:11 GMT
I can see why you think that, but I disagree. Coventry - lucky to win Watford - Embarrassing WBA - Outplayed at home Plymouth - Quite an open game, but it had nil nil written all over it until Million stepped up Oxford - Disgusting And for him to have quality players at his disposal but to persist with tactics they don't understand and players out of position when there is better on the bench, he basically signed his own P45. Its funny how wins suddenly become lucky ones. We battered Coventry first half and should have been out of sight at half time. We were under a lot of pressure 2nd half but still found a way to score a cracking goal despite that pressure and rightfully bagged the 3 points. Plymouth was a decent away win where we created a lot and dealt with their pressure to take 3 away points. The 3 defeats in between have been pretty poor with mistakes made. You don't sack a manager after 5 games having won 2 of them. Its unfair and sends a message to potential new HC targets that we have a wanker of a DOF It was clearly opportumistic timimg wise As the mumbers dont support it up tonpxford they were sayimg we are om target so as you say analyisis of resutls doesmt support this action now |
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Post by philb on Sept 17, 2024 15:09:36 GMT
Who should have gone, JW or SS? I'd have gone for JW. Why would Walters go anywhere 🤷♂️ |
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Post by idle on Sept 17, 2024 15:12:14 GMT
The only one utterly clueless here is you. I saw something I liked, both in December and in March/April last year. We played with grit, determination, forward passing and movement, and winning the midfield battles. Where were you? But hey, we should be able to stroll the league without a striker, a proper RB, and with only kids in midfield. We'll see where Schuey ends up. I'm thinking Plymouth when Rooney gets the sack. And it's a fair chance he'll end up above us so long av we have the all-knowing, all-powerful JW selecting the team. No wonder if there was a bust-up. Ah he will end up with Plymouth no less !!! Is that what we should aspire to ? A manager so good that he might even land the job as top dog at mighty Plymouth ??!! They're about as mighty as we are right now, so why not? |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 17, 2024 15:17:48 GMT
Who should have gone, JW or SS? I'd have gone for JW. Why would Walters go anywhere 🤷♂️ I just hope he hasn't brain washed JC to the point he's almost unsackable. If this next HC doesn't work out Walters should be under serious pressure given he's just sacked a coach that almost no fan was calling to be sacked. It was unnecessary and far too early. Walters has put a target on his own back cos he lost his shit with Schumacher. Its not a good sign. Smells like a bully.. |
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Post by stokief on Sept 17, 2024 15:23:06 GMT
We're just going to keep going on and on and round in circles aren't we? Nobody knows all of the facts, actually probably any of the real facts/reasons. However, I stick by my original offering at the time of SS joining that in my humble opinion he wasn't the man for the job and wouldn't last. He's gone and whilst I appreciate it seems to have bizarrely emotionally affected a large number of posters the reality is we were going nowhere, maybe even in decline . The moaning on here after the Oxford debacle would suggest the latter. 'Lost' players bereft of any idea what they should be doing, heads down, apathy and doubtless some shouting at each other and SS didn't know why. Those rare glimpses of exciting football were latterly due to the exuberant youngsters who then got dropped! He didn't inspire me with confidence from the get go I'm afraid. The rot couldn't be allowed to set in again. Who knows if the next Coach will be a success? He has, however, a clean slate. A very decent group of youngsters and some old fashioned experience. As I see it, all dead wood and potential mischief-makers now cleared. Let's please just get on with it . Walters may well have been doing his research and due diligence of prospective replacements for months. He's closer to what goes on and sees what we don't. He's been a player at a high level and will likely be very tuned to picking up negative vibes or potential unrest. He's certainly not stupid. I wish SS well in his career ,he just wasn't the one for us. It's hard being a Stoke Supporter but there will always be good times and not so. I wish whoever comes in the best and I've said previously, I hope they bring enthusiasm, vision,tactical nous and man-management skills and I REALLY hope that they stay away from this message board or it'll do their nut in early doors!
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Post by Do eet for Eetinneriseet on Sept 17, 2024 15:23:33 GMT
Why would Walters go anywhere 🤷♂️ I just hope he hasn't brain washed JC to the point he's almost unsackable. If this next HC doesn't work out Walters should be under serious pressure given he's just sacked a coach that almost no fan was calling to be sacked. It was unnecessary and far too early. Walters has put a target on his own back cos he lost his shit with Schumacher. Its not a good sign. Smells like a bully.. Palech isnt just a spur of the moment interest and SJW obviously had a reason to get rid when he did We should just trust what has gone down and just hope this all works out👍 |
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 17, 2024 15:34:56 GMT
I don't get this idea of including points from previous seasons. He has picked up 6 points from 15. Using your same logic, that gives you 55 points this season. That would give us a finish anywhere from 16th to 19th realistically. But you don't sack someone after 5 games when he's won 2 of them. So you have to look into last season to get some meaningful data. However you wanna look at it Walters has gone way early on pulling the trigger. And he's shown he hasn't the ability to manage his head coach amicably. Its a massive warning sign about Walters. Who I'm beginning to think is a bit of a wanker. You'd certainly be asking plenty of questions as the incoming Head Coach, wouldn't you? "I notice the predecessor won 70% of his last 10 games, what more did you expect from him?" That's not a defence of SS by the way, I don't think it's as simple as just winning 7/10, it's the fact there hasn't really looked like any sort of plan so far this season with at least 3 games where we've looked nowhere near it tactically. However, you'd want to know what JW is expecting of you, and what might see you out of a job. It won't surprise me at all if we're back in the same boat come Christmas time. |
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Post by stokeymad on Sept 17, 2024 15:39:15 GMT
I can see why you think that, but I disagree. Coventry - lucky to win Watford - Embarrassing WBA - Outplayed at home Plymouth - Quite an open game, but it had nil nil written all over it until Million stepped up Oxford - Disgusting And for him to have quality players at his disposal but to persist with tactics they don't understand and players out of position when there is better on the bench, he basically signed his own P45. Coventry, should have been winnyat HT quite clearly, second half they didn't lay a glove on us Watford, embarrassing Albion,first half was a good game,3 big changes each,how Million doesn't score is astonishing, second half we didn't lay a glove on them ,fair play Albion shut up shop which was enough but outplayed,bollocks Plymouth, entertaining game, should have been winning at HT Oxford, disgusting And you've ignored the two cup wins But of a pattern with poor second halves (Inc Watford) and not taking chances We then sign a goalscorer and after one game we sack the manager It's way too small a sample to be definitive and we are a laughing stock in football atm with our ludicrous policy of knee jerk sackings in August/September We didn't really lay a glove on Cov though did we. 2 shots on target and less possession at home. I did ignore the two cup games same as I ignored pre-season friendlies. They were just the kids going out there and trying, and they've done well. But it's not really a measuring stick is it? I can concede that maybe he should have had more games, but he was certainly doing things that weren't in the best interest of the club at times (Gooch prime example). After how we played at the weekend though, I am happy we pulled the trigger. I was watching the game on the box and scrolling on my phone took more of my interest, and I realised to myself, the last game I watched where I wasn't really bored was probably back in May. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 17, 2024 15:41:11 GMT
I can see why you think that, but I disagree. Coventry - lucky to win Watford - Embarrassing WBA - Outplayed at home Plymouth - Quite an open game, but it had nil nil written all over it until Million stepped up Oxford - Disgusting And for him to have quality players at his disposal but to persist with tactics they don't understand and players out of position when there is better on the bench, he basically signed his own P45. Coventry, should have been winnyat HT quite clearly, second half they didn't lay a glove on us Watford, embarrassing Albion,first half was a good game,3 big changes each,how Million doesn't score is astonishing, second half we didn't lay a glove on them ,fair play Albion shut up shop which was enough but outplayed,bollocks Plymouth, entertaining game, should have been winning at HT Oxford, disgusting And you've ignored the two cup wins But of a pattern with poor second halves (Inc Watford) and not taking chances We then sign a goalscorer and after one game we sack the manager It's way too small a sample to be definitive and we are a laughing stock in football atm with our ludicrous policy of knee jerk sackings in August/September I really don't see the point of micro analysing those first five games - if that's why Schumacher was sacked it's an insane decision. More likely Walters was never really convinced or something kicked off behind the scenes. If 5 games are being used as the yard stick for deciding to sack a manager we really are fucked. |
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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Sept 17, 2024 15:45:30 GMT
Who should have gone, JW or SS? I'd have gone for JW. How can we possibly say, without knowing exactly what happened and why? |
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Post by dirtclod on Sept 17, 2024 15:52:24 GMT
Clear to me that they had Pelach picked out beforehand.
I don't automatically see JW as a "bully" or a genius - he's taking a ballsy risk here. And any way you present it - Oxford was a shock (maybe not to some on here) and not a good one.
Pelach was obviously JW's first target and now he has him.
Now that the whiplash is wearing off:
We've gotten our first choice and I could care less how good/bad of a player Pelach was in his playing days.
He's bringing in the GK coach and an opposition analyst - like the sound of that. Other people in the game impressed by him, his work ethic, ability to work with players etc.
Like that he commented about needing to know first what SCFC was about, the players, the intent etc. Sounds like an analytical mind to me.
Spaniards know football, especially if they grew up around Girona. Has worked around some good people.
All that tells me that he's met us, knows what he's heading into and ready for the challenge.
I wish Schu the best in the future (unless his team is playing us).
This one's unproven as a HC, but I'm glad that we didn't go for the typical list of dinosaurs out there.
Maybe we can give Pelach as much as 10 minutes before we write him off?
We have young players (thank God) for a change we're not raiding retirement villages.
But they'll make mistakes and this league is always a sawtoothed graph. Ups and downs and all.
Got my seatbelt fastened for the rollercoaster ride.
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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Sept 17, 2024 16:02:31 GMT
Stoke have been searching for a Coach that can build player resilience.
SS was not that coach.
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Post by Do eet for Eetinneriseet on Sept 17, 2024 16:06:56 GMT
Who should have gone, JW or SS? I'd have gone for JW. How can we possibly say, without knowing exactly what happened and why? Exactly we cant if the club want the reason known they will say so, but the right one has gone Onwards and upwards hopefully now |
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