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Post by Mezza on Sept 17, 2024 10:10:13 GMT
There was 100% an argument between JW and SS about team selection after the Oxford match. If fish has denied this (which I haven’t seen he has myself) then I can only assume he is protecting his family which he is right to do. Maybe so, but I'm more inclined to believe the information from Schumacher's actual cousin than some recycled, third hand speculation. Not third but sure. |
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Post by cousindupree on Sept 17, 2024 10:21:06 GMT
I. like many liked SS. and think he has the potential to become a decent coach in this league and maybe even above. At the time I thought it was a decent shout by Coates. He is at the moment on a par with many of the young coaches in the Champ and certainly no worse than many. It shouldn't be forgotten that he promoted Plymouth, a bit of a backwater club with over 100pts against some serious opposition in league 1. Even Alex Neil couldn't manage that with a superior squad at Sunderland. I wish him well and pretty sure he will be back managing very soon.
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Post by datguy on Sept 17, 2024 10:29:03 GMT
Ive heard that there was a huge arguement with JW and SS, like alluded too on here was all about team selections and SS was annoyed he was quizzed on it. SS didnt get the bus back to Stoke apparantly on Saturday either which may just be a coincendence. Whether you agree or disagree with the team selection JW interfering over it isnt a good look Why isn’t it a good look? We’ve lost a game where he started Lyndon Gooch in a central attacking midfielder role. And that’s after numerous other questionable selections over the past calendar year. Jon Walters is his line manager and poor performance ultimately falls on his head, not the Head Coach. Walters is employed to question the Head Coach (amongst other things of course). I know Schumacher had family on here and it’s not nice to see family sacked (and it seems brutal - especially with the news we’ve been in the process of finding a new manager before Oxford) but it’s football and we can certainly achieve more than we currently are with this squad. |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Sept 17, 2024 10:34:04 GMT
I. like many liked SS. and think he has the potential to become a decent coach in this league and maybe even above. At the time I thought it was a decent shout by Coates. He is at the moment on a par with many of the young coaches in the Champ and certainly no worse than many. It shouldn't be forgotten that he promoted Plymouth, a bit of a backwater club with over 100pts against some serious opposition in league 1. Even Alex Neil couldn't manage that with a superior squad at Sunderland. I wish him well and pretty sure he will be back managing very soon. Which coaches do you think he is on a par with? In 5 games this season we have been out thought at half time, generally by the opposition stepping up ten years to squeeze us. After Oxford and Watford scored, both times we collapsed for about 20 minutes. And our substitutions have been chaotic, the Ennis/Tezgel double switch on Saturday was baffling as was moving Laurent to centre back in an earlier game. I could not detect any sign of an identity or pattern of play emerging after 9 months. I genuinely couldn't see on Saturday how we thought we might score nor how we wanted to link to Cannon. In my view our coaching has been very poor for months |
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Post by kerouac on Sept 17, 2024 10:40:10 GMT
I think a lot of us,me included,are seeing the reign of Schumacher through rose tinted glasses.
We’ve seen some decent displays ie the back end of last season,1st half v Cov,glimpses at Plymouth,but I still felt we lacked fitness and strength and even after 9 or so months I don’t think he’d settled on a plan or team to carry out his vision,that’s if he had one.
I don’t particularly think he was getting the best out of certain players ie Burger,perhaps Vidigal…?The Boro game was excellent and gave me great hope but he seemed to bottle it massively against Oxford and these inept performances were a major concern for me.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 17, 2024 10:41:13 GMT
24 hours gone and we are still searching for the logic in Stoke's decision yesterday. I don't think there is a football logic, or managerial logic, I put it down to a clash in personalities. Even the most successful partnership, Clough and Taylor, fell out.
I don't know but suggest things have been fractious behind the scenes and differences of opinion on direction. Maybe SS has stepped out of line on recruitment, not getting who he wanted, only to be told : "You brought in Ennis".
The team performance on Saturday did not just lack technique, there was a total absence of character. Gooch and Burger charging around like headless chickens added to the confusion. When Gooch went off, it seemed their was resignation, and when Oxford scored it was "down tools".
Post match, SS was gutted you could tell. Maybe he was on a final warning and he realised he had messed up again. A great shame because I think he was trying hard to build something and repeat his success at Plymouth, and a nice guy.
What's done is done, time will tell whether is was the right decision. Since relegation the Stoke owners have got every appointment wrong, and every sacking correct. At least they are consistant and we live in hope the JW knows what he is doing and can make the right choice where the Coates have repeatedly failed.
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Post by Timmy on Sept 17, 2024 11:07:15 GMT
Coventry (H)
One very good first half, front footed football.
Second half tactically inept and pinned in, quite lucky we scored on the counter attack with a good finish from koumas.
Carlisle (A)
Young potters. Do these games really matter in the grand scheme of where we want to be?
Watford (A)
Sort of held own for 45 mins without really doing anything. Got battered second half. Could have been 5/6 to Watford.
West Brom (H)
Had some good chances to get infront, went behind, scored and went behind again. Couldn't break down a stubborn West Brom defense. 10 goal attempts for stoke, 20 for west brom.
Middlesbrough (A)
Young potters
Plymouth (A)
A game in which we deserved the 3 points, manhoef probably should have had a hat trick.
Oxford (A)
41% possession against a team that can't afford a stadium with 4 stands. The one shot on target shows how poor we were on the day. Questionable team selection which included leaving koumas and Moran out of the team and shoe horning Gooch into an attacking midfielder role because of his pressing ability.
Overall removing the coca cola cup wins, we've been remarkably lucky to have the points we have at this stage. The inability to control games is extremely worrying for me, we've shipped out most of our midfield and replaced them with an injured lad from Celtic and young attacking focused players.
Who knows what will happen for the remainder of the season, let's hope we drop onto a gem of a manager who will breathe confidence and swag into the team.
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Post by rowleyscfc on Sept 17, 2024 11:12:25 GMT
Coventry (H) One very good first half, front footed football. Second half tactically inept and pinned in, quite lucky we scored on the counter attack with a good finish from koumas. Carlisle (A) Young potters. Do these games really matter in the grand scheme of where we want to be? Watford (A) Sort of held own for 45 mins without really doing anything. Got battered second half. Could have been 5/6 to Watford. West Brom (H) Had some good chances to get infront, went behind, scored and went behind again. Couldn't break down a stubborn West Brom defense. 10 goal attempts for stoke, 20 for west brom. Middlesbrough (A) Young potters Plymouth (A) A game in which we deserved the 3 points, manhoef probably should have had a hat trick. Oxford (A) 41% possession against a team that can't afford a stadium with 4 stands. The one shot on target shows how poor we were on the day. Questionable team selection which included leaving koumas and Moran out of the team and shoe horning Gooch into an attacking midfielder role because of his pressing ability. Overall removing the coca cola cup wins, we've been remarkably lucky to have the points we have at this stage. The inability to control games is extremely worrying for me, we've shipped out most of our midfield and replaced them with an injured lad from Celtic and young attacking focused players. Who knows what will happen for the remainder of the season, let's hope we drop onto a gem of a manager who will breathe confidence and swag into the team. Is hard to argue with that tbh, we haven't seen the attacking freeflowing football we were promised. I like Schuey, but some of the worst performances i've seen from a Stoke team come under him, Saturday and Swansea away last year were as bad as I can remember. Think that could be a player issue though, suppose we just have to wait to find out |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 17, 2024 11:13:04 GMT
24 hours gone and we are still searching for the logic in Stoke's decision yesterday. I don't think there is a football logic, or managerial logic, I put it down to a clash in personalities. Even the most successful partnership, Clough and Taylor, fell out. I don't know but suggest things have been fractious behind the scenes and differences of opinion on direction. Maybe SS has stepped out of line on recruitment, not getting who he wanted, only to be told : " You brought in Ennis".The team performance on Saturday did not just lack technique, there was a total absence of character. Gooch and Burger charging around like headless chickens added to the confusion. When Gooch went off, it seemed their was resignation, and when Oxford scored it was "down tools". Post match, SS was gutted you could tell. Maybe he was on a final warning and he realised he had messed up again. A great shame because I think he was trying hard to build something and repeat his success at Plymouth, and a nice guy. What's done is done, time will tell whether is was the right decision. Since relegation the Stoke owners have got every appointment wrong, and every sacking correct. At least they are consistant and we live in hope the JW knows what he is doing and can make the right choice where the Coates have repeatedly failed. Walters has put himself right in the firing line now. So it can be argued he's got bollox and is being assertive. However to me it has an air of being overly ruthless and also displays that perhaps Walters has failed to build a relationship with his single most important employee. Other than a very small % age of fans nobody was calling for his head. So there was no pressure in that regard for the board to deal with. I'm thinking Walters has let the power he has go to his head a bit here. Seems very knee jerk off the back of a couple of poor performances for my money. The problem could well be Walters.. |
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 17, 2024 11:26:28 GMT
Having had a few more hours to process this, more and more it looks like there is no replacement lined up as they woukd have been announced already surely. Looks even more likely to be an absolute cluster@@@@ in my opinion. Wouldn't surprise me tbh if Shawcriss beats Fleetwood we give him the job on that basis til end of season. As another guy said rinse and repeat in this last 7 year madhouse. It is unseemly to announce a replacement too quickly. When has football ever been seemly? |
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 17, 2024 11:27:27 GMT
The season would have been written off if Schumacher was kept in charge. He was completely out of his depth. Totally inept and out of his league An opinion. A shit one at that, in my opinion. Yes a shit one but not half as much as yours. Tell Me what style of play, what identity he gave to the team? None whatsoever! And that last performance against mighty Oxford, oh, the stuff of legends !! The reincarnation of brian clough was stevie schuey!! Clueless and hopeless and will soon find his level in dividion 2 or 1 at best |
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 17, 2024 11:27:27 GMT
The season would have been written off if Schumacher was kept in charge. He was completely out of his depth. Totally inept and out of his league An opinion. A shit one at that, in my opinion. Yes a shit one but not half as much as yours. Tell Me what style of play, what identity he gave to the team? None whatsoever! And that last performance against mighty Oxford, oh, the stuff of legends !! The reincarnation of brian clough was stevie schuey!! Clueless and hopeless and will soon find his level in dividion 2 or 1 at best |
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 17, 2024 11:28:24 GMT
The playing of Gooch was terrible, but what else was there to disagree with really? Do they want Tchamedeu replacing with Dixon? Gibson for Phillips? Saturday was shite and the set up wasn't right but in terms of players on the pitch, there wasn't a great deal to disagree with. You can only play 11 players which is going to mean the likes of Koumas, Junho, Moran, Cannon don't start every game. My theory is....JW made a strong suggestion to Schumacher about a starting line up. Or certainly part of the team line up. Schumacher thought wtf, I pick the team. So Schumacher made a very strong point of not taking that advice and selecting the team he wanted. Obviously we lost in a toothless performance and JW thought fuck you if you won't listen to your boss then you're sacked. Battle of egos and there was only gonna be one winner. The concern for me is I think this shows JC has effectively passed all control on football matters to someone who now seems a bit trigger happy having sacked a mostly liked manager who has a decent record over the last 10 games with 7 wins. I'll be keeping a very close eye on JW from now on that's for sure. And good luck Schumacher on your next job. I think we'll be hearing from him again as I think he'll be a good manager at the right club. Yes he may be successful in division 2 |
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Post by thehoof on Sept 17, 2024 11:32:40 GMT
24 hours gone and we are still searching for the logic in Stoke's decision yesterday. I don't think there is a football logic, or managerial logic, I put it down to a clash in personalities. Even the most successful partnership, Clough and Taylor, fell out. I don't know but suggest things have been fractious behind the scenes and differences of opinion on direction. Maybe SS has stepped out of line on recruitment, not getting who he wanted, only to be told : " You brought in Ennis".The team performance on Saturday did not just lack technique, there was a total absence of character. Gooch and Burger charging around like headless chickens added to the confusion. When Gooch went off, it seemed their was resignation, and when Oxford scored it was "down tools". Post match, SS was gutted you could tell. Maybe he was on a final warning and he realised he had messed up again. A great shame because I think he was trying hard to build something and repeat his success at Plymouth, and a nice guy. What's done is done, time will tell whether is was the right decision. Since relegation the Stoke owners have got every appointment wrong, and every sacking correct. At least they are consistant and we live in hope the JW knows what he is doing and can make the right choice where the Coates have repeatedly failed. Walters has put himself right in the firing line now. So it can be argued he's got bollox and is being assertive. However to me it has an air of being overly ruthless and also displays that perhaps Walters has failed to build a relationship with his single most important employee. Other than a very small % age of fans nobody was calling for his head. So there was no pressure in that regard for the board to deal with. I'm thinking Walters has let the power he has go to his head a bit here. Seems very knee jerk off the back of a couple of poor performances for my money. The problem could well be Walters.. I’d be interested to know ( not as any of us will ever know) just what targets Walters has been set by John Coates; and if he doesn’t achieve them, will he expect the axe to fall, or will he fall on his ceremonial sword. After all, why should a DOF be allowed to fail, any more than a Head Coach? The DOF may not like team selection, but that isn’t his job. If this next appointment fails , and given that well over 65% of managerial appointments in the top 2 leagues last less than 24 months, where does the blame then lie? |
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Post by potterpaul on Sept 17, 2024 11:39:34 GMT
I'm not enjoying this as much as I should be.....where's Onlooker, his dog and his entertaining insight. He must be chomping at the bit to have his say
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 17, 2024 11:49:59 GMT
Obviously something has happened behind the scenes to trigger such a dramatic course of action, however this is such a left field appointment, Walters has certainly put himself up for massive criticism of it's fails, likewise, massive kudos if it turns out to be a master stroke 🤔
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Post by skemstokie on Sept 17, 2024 11:55:55 GMT
Ive heard that there was a huge arguement with JW and SS, like alluded too on here was all about team selections and SS was annoyed he was quizzed on it. SS didnt get the bus back to Stoke apparantly on Saturday either which may just be a coincendence. Whether you agree or disagree with the team selection JW interfering over it isnt a good look Why isn’t it a good look? We’ve lost a game where he started Lyndon Gooch in a central attacking midfielder role. And that’s after numerous other questionable selections over the past calendar year. Jon Walters is his line manager and poor performance ultimately falls on his head, not the Head Coach. Walters is employed to question the Head Coach (amongst other things of course). I know Schumacher had family on here and it’s not nice to see family sacked (and it seems brutal - especially with the news we’ve been in the process of finding a new manager before Oxford) but it’s football and we can certainly achieve more than we currently are with this squad. I agree with all you say Schuey did not seem to learn from his mistakes persisting with formations which the players didn`t even seem to understand. Better to part company now whilst we are 7 points behind the leaders than wait a couple of months or so let morale slip and the gap to the top widen, well done J.W. |
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Post by idle on Sept 17, 2024 11:57:18 GMT
An opinion. A shit one at that, in my opinion. Yes a shit one but not half as much as yours. Tell Me what style of play, what identity he gave to the team? None whatsoever! And that last performance against mighty Oxford, oh, the stuff of legends !! The reincarnation of brian clough was stevie schuey!! Clueless and hopeless and will soon find his level in dividion 2 or 1 at best The only one utterly clueless here is you. I saw something I liked, both in December and in March/April last year. We played with grit, determination, forward passing and movement, and winning the midfield battles. Where were you? But hey, we should be able to stroll the league without a striker, a proper RB, and with only kids in midfield. We'll see where Schuey ends up. I'm thinking Plymouth when Rooney gets the sack. And it's a fair chance he'll end up above us so long av we have the all-knowing, all-powerful JW selecting the team. No wonder if there was a bust-up. |
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Post by drfishy on Sept 17, 2024 12:07:43 GMT
I liked SS and hoped he would push us on this season to top half/ playoffs. However, if you take the Middlesbrough game out( where both teams played lots of youngsters) the defeat at Oxford would have had many calling for his sacking.
I hope whoever comes in will manage to get us playing good football, as I think our squad could be very exciting if coached well, but there will be bumps in the road.
So I thank SS for his efforts and hope he does well in his future endeavours and back whoever SJW decides is the man for the job🤞
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Post by LH_SCFC on Sept 17, 2024 12:23:22 GMT
Coventry (H) One very good first half, front footed football. Second half tactically inept and pinned in, quite lucky we scored on the counter attack with a good finish from koumas. Carlisle (A) Young potters. Do these games really matter in the grand scheme of where we want to be? Watford (A) Sort of held own for 45 mins without really doing anything. Got battered second half. Could have been 5/6 to Watford. West Brom (H) Had some good chances to get infront, went behind, scored and went behind again. Couldn't break down a stubborn West Brom defense. 10 goal attempts for stoke, 20 for west brom. Middlesbrough (A) Young potters Plymouth (A) A game in which we deserved the 3 points, manhoef probably should have had a hat trick. Oxford (A) 41% possession against a team that can't afford a stadium with 4 stands. The one shot on target shows how poor we were on the day. Questionable team selection which included leaving koumas and Moran out of the team and shoe horning Gooch into an attacking midfielder role because of his pressing ability. Overall removing the coca cola cup wins, we've been remarkably lucky to have the points we have at this stage. The inability to control games is extremely worrying for me, we've shipped out most of our midfield and replaced them with an injured lad from Celtic and young attacking focused players. Who knows what will happen for the remainder of the season, let's hope we drop onto a gem of a manager who will breathe confidence and swag into the team. *Baker scored against Coventry. Koumas signed the week after and arguably could have had a hat trick against Baggies, hitting the post twice. |
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Post by onepara on Sept 17, 2024 12:29:11 GMT
I think a lot of us,me included,are seeing the reign of Schumacher through rose tinted glasses. We’ve seen some decent displays ie the back end of last season,1st half v Cov,glimpses at Plymouth,but I still felt we lacked fitness and strength and even after 9 or so months I don’t think he’d settled on a plan or team to carry out his vision,that’s if he had one. I don’t particularly think he was getting the best out of certain players ie Burger,perhaps Vidigal…?The Boro game was excellent and gave me great hope but he seemed to bottle it massively against Oxford and these inept performances were a major concern for me. Some are being persuaded, & are annoyed of his sacking, because he comes over as a nice, honest man. He probably is, but he is employed to make this football team click, & he hasn't done that. Can anyone honestly say that they were satisfied with the performance against Oxford. To me the team didn't seem like they were playing FOR him. I can understand Fish seeing things from Schue's point of view, & believing his version of events. He's family after all. It's not nice to get the sack, so maybe Schuey put a bit of a gloss on the reasons. Who wants to be classed as a failure? |
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Post by OldStokie on Sept 17, 2024 12:36:34 GMT
The sacking isn't a mystery now. It's really simple. Schumacher and Walters were at odds on how how the club should progress and with him now being the boss, Walters delivered the coup de grace. Walters has now put his head on the chopping block... if it works then he'll be feted for his bravery but if it fails he'll be through the door and will find it difficult to get a job anywhere else. Schuey will be fine. He's an up and coming talent and won't be out of work long. I wish Schuey well. He's certainly not been the worst manager since Hughes was sacked.
OS.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Sept 17, 2024 12:46:23 GMT
I can’t imagine Schumacher’s stock has greatly dropped given the timing of the sacking
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Post by mamathestriker on Sept 17, 2024 12:47:19 GMT
I can’t imagine Schumacher’s stock has greatly dropped given the timing of the sacking Can see him joining someone like Bolton. |
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 17, 2024 13:25:15 GMT
Yes a shit one but not half as much as yours. Tell Me what style of play, what identity he gave to the team? None whatsoever! And that last performance against mighty Oxford, oh, the stuff of legends !! The reincarnation of brian clough was stevie schuey!! Clueless and hopeless and will soon find his level in dividion 2 or 1 at best The only one utterly clueless here is you. I saw something I liked, both in December and in March/April last year. We played with grit, determination, forward passing and movement, and winning the midfield battles. Where were you? But hey, we should be able to stroll the league without a striker, a proper RB, and with only kids in midfield. We'll see where Schuey ends up. I'm thinking Plymouth when Rooney gets the sack. And it's a fair chance he'll end up above us so long av we have the all-knowing, all-powerful JW selecting the team. No wonder if there was a bust-up. Ah he will end up with Plymouth no less !!! Is that what we should aspire to ? A manager so good that he might even land the job as top dog at mighty Plymouth ??!! |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 17, 2024 13:26:22 GMT
I can’t imagine Schumacher’s stock has greatly dropped given the timing of the sacking He’ll sit on his payments from us until Rooney inevitably gets the chop and will go back to Plymouth. I wasn’t overly impressed in the end but I don’t think he’s a third tier manager. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 17, 2024 13:30:03 GMT
I can’t imagine Schumacher’s stock has greatly dropped given the timing of the sacking He’ll sit on his payments from us until Rooney inevitably gets the chop and will go back to Plymouth. I wasn’t overly impressed in the end but I don’t think he’s a third tier manager. It'll be hard to find out what level he'll get to if clubs do what Stoke have just done and don't give the poor fucker a chance. Sacked 5 games in on a run of 7 wins in 10. Its fucking crazy really... |
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 17, 2024 13:43:50 GMT
This has probably been mentioned already, Schumacher is now the manager with the best win percentage while in charge of Stoke since Gudjon Thordarson.
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Post by stokeymad on Sept 17, 2024 13:58:48 GMT
I think a lot of us,me included,are seeing the reign of Schumacher through rose tinted glasses. We’ve seen some decent displays ie the back end of last season,1st half v Cov,glimpses at Plymouth,but I still felt we lacked fitness and strength and even after 9 or so months I don’t think he’d settled on a plan or team to carry out his vision,that’s if he had one. I don’t particularly think he was getting the best out of certain players ie Burger,perhaps Vidigal…?The Boro game was excellent and gave me great hope but he seemed to bottle it massively against Oxford and these inept performances were a major concern for me. Some are being persuaded, & are annoyed of his sacking, because he comes over as a nice, honest man. He probably is, but he is employed to make this football team click, & he hasn't done that. Can anyone honestly say that they were satisfied with the performance against Oxford. To me the team didn't seem like they were playing FOR him. I can understand Fish seeing things from Schue's point of view, & believing his version of events. He's family after all. It's not nice to get the sack, so maybe Schuey put a bit of a gloss on the reasons. Who wants to be classed as a failure? I do agree with the rose-tinted specs though. Has anyone enjoyed any of our league games this season? The attacking football we were promised is quite at odds with the headless chickens that have been running around on the pitch with seemingly no clue as to what they were meant to do. And for me, the responsibility falls on the head COACH. What has he been coaching them? Because it hasn't translated on the pitch. Our set pieces are shocking. Getting back into position is laboured. No movement in midfield. The players looking unfit, first game back of the season, and first game back after an international break. That's criminal. I can't remember the last Stoke game I watched and enjoyed it, regardless of the result. He might be a nice guy, and I did want him to do well, but I don't think he has taken us forward at all. I also don't see where he will be setting the football world alight. |
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Post by Do eet for Eetinneriseet on Sept 17, 2024 14:02:08 GMT
Was shocked as everybody else to see hed been sacked on monday i thought it wouuld be around xmas when they would have to get rid of him when we were in the bottom 3 and then another panic to get another chancer in to keep us up
He had to go and it wasnt a spur of the moment thing to get rid SJW had no choice really and im 100% behind the decision as a lifelong stoke supporter home and away
The reasons may or may not come out in the coming weeks or months who knows but one thing is for sure we all need to get behind the team and the new head coach starting with tonight and lets see if we can get a smile back on the face of Stoke City i for one have had enough of the chancers weve had over the years
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