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Post by Goonie on Jul 18, 2024 21:48:23 GMT
Wonder if the Kaiser Chiefs are there Would never have happened to Smeaton An Old Leodensian
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 18, 2024 21:50:46 GMT
I thought it started with a white Romani family? Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Youre never wrong Paul
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Post by professorplump on Jul 18, 2024 21:54:31 GMT
One of the most depressing things about the footage I've seen is the number of kids involved in the rioting. Some of them look like they are under 10 years old.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 18, 2024 21:55:02 GMT
I thought it started with a white Romani family? Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Youre never wrong Paul Why do you always respond with pathetic personal jibes, rather than actually have the conviction to back up the points you are attempting to make?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 18, 2024 21:57:01 GMT
You’re probably not far from the truth to be fair. You only have to see some of the past threads on here to see the reaction they’d get if they were “overly robust.” Ultimately they can’t win. - If they retreat and come up with some sort of plan re damage limitation / not escalating the situation even more they’d be accused of being too soft. - If they go in all guns blazing the usual suspects and the likes of Lammy, Abbott and Corbyn would be crucifying them for their “aggressive policing.” before they even hear the full story. There’s too much opinion and politics in policing now. I wouldn’t want to do it especially as those on the ground are unlikely to be supported. It’s a sad state of affairs. It’ll be interesting to know the back story but if children are being taken into care those protesting are defending parents who are potentially being neglectful or cruel to their children. Agree with a lot of that Cobs but they’re becoming a bit of a joke in reality. Not sayings it’s their fault at all, but years ago you’d be at the least a bit fearful of the plod, now you’ve got influencers going around just filming them and basically taking the piss out of them. They look frightened to death say anything incase it’s racist/transphobic (insert whatever really) It’s gone too far the other way now for me, they’re commanding zero respect off the public and it needs addressing or this sort of shit will spread I think to an extent you’re right but there’s a reason things have changed. - Cuts have hammered the way jobs are dealt with. A lot less numbers means a lot more tolerence. - More people to police due to a rapid increase in the population. - Recruitment. Too much concentration on academics rather than ex military. - A reduction in Neighnourhood policing and the bobby on the beat. - A more violent society. - Social media putting the microscope on incidents and creating a fear in officers re them being put in the spotlight and when they are not receiving the support of their bosses or politicians. - Prioritising the wrong things.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 18, 2024 22:00:21 GMT
One of the most depressing things about the footage I've seen is the number of kids involved in the rioting. Some of them look like they are under 10 years old. Thought that myself and I’m sure their parents were there encouraging them too. It’s a really sad thing to see. I just hope that the footage is scrutinised and every one of those deemed to be committing an offence is put behind bars.
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Post by sticky on Jul 18, 2024 22:01:00 GMT
Agree with a lot of that Cobs but they’re becoming a bit of a joke in reality. Not sayings it’s their fault at all, but years ago you’d be at the least a bit fearful of the plod, now you’ve got influencers going around just filming them and basically taking the piss out of them. They look frightened to death say anything incase it’s racist/transphobic (insert whatever really) It’s gone too far the other way now for me, they’re commanding zero respect off the public and it needs addressing or this sort of shit will spread I think to an extent you’re right but there’s a reason things have changed. - Cuts have hammered the way jobs are dealt with. A lot less numbers means a lot more tolerence. - More people to police due to a rapid increase in the population. - Recruitment. Too much concentration on academics rather than ex military. - A reduction in Neighnourhood policing and the bobby on the beat. - A more violent society. - Social media putting the microscope on incidents and creating a fear in officers re them being put in the spotlight and when they are not receiving the support of their bosses or politicians. - Prioritising the wrong things. 👍🏻I think the recruitment issue is massive, like you said previously I wouldn’t want to do it, a thankless job. Little kids whacking a police car🤦🏻♂️just seems like society’s breaking down, and they know the repercussions will be pretty meaningless anyway.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 18, 2024 22:04:10 GMT
Why do you always respond with pathetic personal jibes, rather than actually have the conviction to back up the points you are attempting to make? Not personal for me,I’ve always recognised you as Supreme judge Paul Spencer who has the final say on most things on the Everything Else board,sleep tight👍
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Post by Gods on Jul 18, 2024 22:06:41 GMT
It's a funny thing.
I was only wondering yesterday what happened to the summer rioting season in our provincial cities and hey presto.
It used to be as much a part of a new British summer as Wimbledon and Ascot.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 18, 2024 22:08:07 GMT
Why do you always respond with pathetic personal jibes, rather than actually have the conviction to back up the points you are attempting to make? Not personal for me,I’ve always recognised you as Supreme judge Paul Spencer who has the final say on most things on the Everything Else board,sleep tight👍 You're still doing it. (As I said) it absolutely pathetic. There's actually a serious topic to be discussed here but it appears that you are completely incapable of doing as much.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 18, 2024 22:10:48 GMT
It's a funny thing. I was only wondering yesterday what happened to the summer rioting season in our provincial cities and hey presto. It used to be as much a part of a British summer as Wimbledon and Ascot. Exactly God's. But Farage and his like, hijack it straight away, in an attempt to convince people that the UK is being overrun by a tide of barbaric Islamists.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 18, 2024 22:12:47 GMT
It’ll be certainly interesting to see how the story develops and to find out the reason as to
- why it started - more about the community involved - how the matter’s dealt with - The impact it has on the members of the community not involved
I guess more will be reported over the next few days
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Post by gawa on Jul 18, 2024 22:22:16 GMT
They’re petrified of recriminations whether 3 turn up or 3000 in full riot gear. You’re probably not far from the truth to be fair. You only have to see some of the past threads on here to see the reaction they’d get if they were “overly robust.” in some people’s eyes. Ultimately they can’t win. - If they retreat and come up with some sort of plan re damage limitation / not escalating the situation even more then they’d be accused of being too soft. - If they go in all guns blazing the usual suspects and the likes of Lammy, Abbott and Corbyn would be crucifying them for their “aggressive policing.” before they even hear the full story. There’s too much public opinion and politics in policing now. I wouldn’t want to do it especially as those on the ground are unlikely to be supported by their bosses. It’s a sad state of affairs. It’ll be interesting to know the back story but if children are being taken into care those protesting are defending parents who are potentially being neglectful or cruel to their children. I largely agree especially in the era of social media and camera phones where every incident is being filmed from different angles and can easily be taken out of context to portray a different picture. Officers probably terrified about making a mistake or doing something wrong and second guessing everything they do. For purpose of balance social media/cameras on occassion have had their benefits too of exposing bad apples in the police too, which of course is good but with that said it still puts the good cops under more pressure and scrutiny too which must impact decision making at times. With regards to the bolded bullet point, I disagree with the profiling used here which implies it's only a certain type of person who complains about aggressive policing. Many examples of others doing it too when it suits them. One does have to wonder and ask what the police are doing though, and you also need to ask what is reasonable force in this situation too? There are no reports of injuries and nobody is fighting each other. I've seen the video of the police car flipped over and the bus on fire but again not really seen any disturbances between officers and the crowd or even the bus driver and the crowd. So what I'd ask is: - Where are the police and what are they doing? If no police have been attacked then why after 5 hours are none of them engaging or trying to disperse the crowds? Why aren't they in the middle of a disturbance with zero injuries and no evidence of violence towards people as of yet. - Is it some sort of risk reward analysis? As no individuals injured or signs of fighting between people they don't want to antagonise it and are hoping that by closing of the area the people will get bored and disperse? Maybe concerned if they engage it will escalate things so better to wait it out? Are our low police and prison numbers affecting decision making? What we will hear more of is "two tier policing" coming back to trend and honestly it's difficult to blame people who say it after this incident. That doesn't mean I agree or believe it myself, but I can certainly see why an event like this would fuel those thoughts and I don't blame people for thinking it after witnessing the lacklustre response here. As for the councillor who was posted up earlier by someone. You can see him in this video below trying to control the crowds and keep them distanced. Councillors and MPs are there to represent their constituents and whatever has happened here has obviously caused alot of outrage. Presuming he isn't engaging in rioting or violence himself and that he is there to try and de-escalate things and engage with the people then fair play to him. At least he is trying when the police and other local representatives are nowhere to be seen.
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Post by chamberlain on Jul 18, 2024 22:27:58 GMT
Is anyone really surprised? Invite a third world, turn into a third world. Do we just ignore the white people rioting in the videos then? There are white people there but the majority are not
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Post by flea79 on Jul 18, 2024 22:34:45 GMT
Lie with dogs and you catch fleas
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 18, 2024 22:45:37 GMT
Do we just ignore the white people rioting in the videos then? There are white people there but the majority are not And? There's a riot going on, on the hottest day of the year, in one of our inner cities, that doesn't then mean that there is a third world uprising taking place on our streets. This sort of thing has been going on on British streets in the summer for decades, it's nothing new. I was there for both of the Brixton riots in the early eighties, where there was a larger amount of black kids on the streets than there was white kids, there were buildings on fire everywhere but did I for a moment think that we were witnessing the fall of British democracy? Did I bollocks, it was British locals angry with their lot. Of course that doesn't make it right but don't let right wing politicians (with their own agenda) hoodwink you into believing that something is taking place, which categorically isn't.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 18, 2024 22:51:49 GMT
Wouldn’t of happened under a Tory government
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 18, 2024 22:52:11 GMT
You’re probably not far from the truth to be fair. You only have to see some of the past threads on here to see the reaction they’d get if they were “overly robust.” in some people’s eyes. Ultimately they can’t win. - If they retreat and come up with some sort of plan re damage limitation / not escalating the situation even more then they’d be accused of being too soft. - If they go in all guns blazing the usual suspects and the likes of Lammy, Abbott and Corbyn would be crucifying them for their “aggressive policing.” before they even hear the full story. There’s too much public opinion and politics in policing now. I wouldn’t want to do it especially as those on the ground are unlikely to be supported by their bosses. It’s a sad state of affairs. It’ll be interesting to know the back story but if children are being taken into care those protesting are defending parents who are potentially being neglectful or cruel to their children. I largely agree especially in the era of social media and camera phones where every incident is being filmed from different angles and can easily be taken out of context to portray a different picture. Officers probably terrified about making a mistake or doing something wrong and second guessing everything they do. For purpose of balance social media/cameras on occassion have had their benefits too of exposing bad apples in the police too, which of course is good but with that said it still puts the good cops under more pressure and scrutiny too which must impact decision making at times. With regards to the bolded bullet point, I disagree with the profiling used here which implies it's only a certain type of person who complains about aggressive policing. Many examples of others doing it too when it suits them. One does have to wonder and ask what the police are doing though, and you also need to ask what is reasonable force in this situation too? There are no reports of injuries and nobody is fighting each other. I've seen the video of the police car flipped over and the bus on fire but again not really seen any disturbances between officers and the crowd or even the bus driver and the crowd. So what I'd ask is: - Where are the police and what are they doing? If no police have been attacked then why after 5 hours are none of them engaging or trying to disperse the crowds? Why aren't they in the middle of a disturbance with zero injuries and no evidence of violence towards people as of yet. - Is it some sort of risk reward analysis? As no individuals injured or signs of fighting between people they don't want to antagonise it and are hoping that by closing of the area the people will get bored and disperse? Maybe concerned if they engage it will escalate things so better to wait it out? Are our low police and prison numbers affecting decision making? What we will hear more of is "two tier policing" coming back to trend and honestly it's difficult to blame people who say it after this incident. That doesn't mean I agree or believe it myself, but I can certainly see why an event like this would fuel those thoughts and I don't blame people for thinking it after witnessing the lacklustre response here. As for the councillor who was posted up earlier by someone. You can see him in this video below trying to control the crowds and keep them distanced. Councillors and MPs are there to represent their constituents and whatever has happened here has obviously caused alot of outrage. Presuming he isn't engaging in rioting or violence himself and that he is there to try and de-escalate things and engage with the people then fair play to him. At least he is trying when the police and other local representatives are nowhere to be seen. Excellent post mate. I don’t disagree that those named aren’t the only ones that criticise police though generally those of a more politically right view criticise the police for being too soft / woke etc. Those named are often the ones first to comment re the police in respect to them being overly aggressive. It’s a very difficult situation to police and I doubt very much that if they remained there wouldn’t have been injuries but we’ll never know. You’re probably not far wrong in relation to them allowing damage to property and feeling sending the riot squads in could potentially escalate the issue (if there were more resources I think it’d be a different outcome) but you can only work with what you have in relation to numbers and they have to be realistic. In relation to the cause, rumours around a child having injuries from the address and 5 other children from the family being taken into care which the father didn’t like and kicked off. Only rumours though.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 18, 2024 22:58:48 GMT
Wouldn’t of happened under a Tory government 🤣🤣
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 18, 2024 23:03:33 GMT
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Post by gawa on Jul 18, 2024 23:05:37 GMT
About the only person from the police and locally elected representatives actually only the ground engaging with the people and trying to control the situation.
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Post by Gods on Jul 18, 2024 23:06:05 GMT
We normally get copycat riots in other cities, particularly when there are long balmy summer evenings.
I imagine this will spread.
The first thing to deflect Labour from delivering against their manifesto.
Many more to come.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 18, 2024 23:08:03 GMT
Got to say, from what we've seen so far, I think the police are handling the situation perfectly.
Instead of going in on mass and providing the rioters with a tangible target, they have, by keeping an extremely low profile, allowed the situation to run out of it's own steam.
No reports of any injuries so far, let's hope that remains the case.
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Post by gawa on Jul 18, 2024 23:11:30 GMT
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 18, 2024 23:20:12 GMT
It's fucking mental how people can't see this. It's literally staring them in the face time and time again but they still can't see that mass immigration has been an absolute catastrophe for this nation.
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Post by wannabee on Jul 18, 2024 23:25:09 GMT
I'm wondering if this is some sort of revenge for the convictions for the previous Riot in Leeds? Warning images of Burning Police Cars not for the squeamish. Perhaps the rioters adopted Anglo-Saxon names to blend with the Community Accusations of whataboutery welcome, if it can be proved it didn't happen Police were “pelted with bricks for hours” during a riot on a Leeds estate in which 54 items were hurled, a court heard as five men were handed sentences for their roles in the disorder. The violence engulfed an estate in Halton Moor and saw officers from West Yorkshire Police subjected to prolonged verbal and physical abuse have been sentenced at Leeds Crown Court for their involvement in the events.
Shane Turnbull, 18; Callum Small, 19; Robert Allison, 43, and Thomas Addo, 19, were given community orders after appearing before a judge on Tuesday, while 50-year-old Jason Banks was given a suspended prison sentence. The court heard the five rioters were only involved in the first day of disorder on November 7, with others having taken part in further violence the following day.
It began as a man living in Kendal Drive reported abusive behaviour to the police. His car was attacked, the windows were smashed and it was set on fire. When police arrived, the aggression was turned towards officers. The court was shown dramatic footage of a car being jumped on, fireworks being launched and items being thrown at police vans as officers appeared to be retreating. In one clip, a police officer could be heard shouting as they were struck by an object. The man who had initially contacted the police later had his house burgled. Pictures showed the battered interior with boarded up windows.
Kendal Drive in Halton the day after the rioting. Judge Rodney Jameson KC said: “The police attended and it is unfortunately the case, as is obvious from the footage played in court, that they were simply treated as the enemy. Over a period of several hours, there was public disorder. They were periodically pelted with bricks for hours and other missiles. They were abused. There were attempts to intimidate and belittle them. It was frankly disgraceful behaviour.”
The judge told the defendants before him that they should be “ashamed” of their involvement after each of them pleaded guilty to violent disorder.
Banks, of Kendal Drive, Halton Moor, was said to have played a “significant role”. The court heard how he confronted police officers, behaved abusively and “talked about the desirability of petrol bombs”. Footage showed him on Kendal Drive walking towards police officers with a bottle in his hand, before throwing it at them. He was sentenced to 21 months in prison, suspended for 18 months, with a requirement to complete
The role of Allison, of Sandhurst Avenue, Harehills, was described as “rabble-rousing” for about an hour. At one point, he threw a beer keg at a police vehicle. The court heard that a custodial sentence would typically be given for an adult, but learning difficulties mean Allison “operates in many respects as a child does”. He was given an 18-month community order, with 30 rehabilitation days.
Addo, of Colby Rise, Halton Moor, was involved for around 30 minutes, during which time he threw two missiles and was seen outside the house that was burgled. Since he is currently subject to a 12-month community order, he was given a further 12-month order that will run alongside it, as well as 10 rehabilitation days.
Turnbull, of Neville Place, Leeds, was seen kicking the wing mirror of the victim’s car and jumping on its tailgate. Grainy footage showed him throwing a firework. Later, he was caught on camera carrying a television set away from the victim’s house. He pleaded guilty to violent disorder and an additional charge of burglary.
A further 11 adult defendants are awaiting trial and nine more defendants are due to stand trial in youth court.
www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/crime/halton-moor-riot-five-men-sentenced-over-violence-that-saw-riot-police-called-to-leeds-estate-4136150
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 18, 2024 23:29:48 GMT
About the only person from the police and locally elected representatives actually only the ground engaging with the people and trying to control the situation. Maybe before he calls out / blames social services and the police perhaps he can give a little more detail as to why he thinks it was mishandled and why it justifies a riot and all the damage caused. Ultimately social services and the police weren’t the ones smashing up the town and setting fire to buses. The problem is the cllr’s total inability to put the responsibility for the bad behaviour on those rioting rather than choosing to justify it and blame those trying to do their jobs. Unless there was unjustified violence directed towards the family there is no excuse.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2024 23:33:09 GMT
This is why you need a good mix of neighborhood police and more traditional bobbies. Neighborhood police are vital in ensuring that cases are followed up on and they build relationships with troubled areas. However, when those relationships break down, you need people on the ground who are capable of going in and sorting it out.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 18, 2024 23:33:38 GMT
We normally get copycat riots in other cities, particularly when there are long balmy summer evenings. I imagine this will spread. The first thing to deflect Labour from delivering against their manifesto. Many more to come. I think you're absolutely right. Starmer's honeymoon period ended the minute the final whistle blew last Sunday. Now he's going to have to actually start having an opinion on stuff and delivering. Make no mistake about it though, the Tories can't dare stand there with a straight face and claim they'd have stopped such events happening. Their mass open border policy, total failings on integration and pathetic record on law and order is as bad as anything we've seen.
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Post by starkiller on Jul 18, 2024 23:36:48 GMT
Folk that willfully destroy property and cause criminal damage are usually the scroungers.
Getting stuff for free breeds ingratitude.
Leave the mess there as a lesson.
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