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Post by smallthorner on Apr 30, 2024 22:08:06 GMT
Thought Shuey like a back three system. ..........Iversen.......... ...Wilmot..Harry...Rose....... Hoever...Burger..Thompson...Toffolo ............Bae.............. ......Millions....New ST.......... Lovely Hopefully he has the sense to leave it in the past. We’ve been absolutely garbage when he’s tried it, just like we were when Neil tried it. It’s so dependent on having actual decent wing-backs and neither of the ones in your prospective team is actually a Stoke player. 4-3-3 is a much better bet with our squad. Well of course... that's part of what I'm saying. If we recruit the right players we are on the right track. Any prospective, imaginary team anyone puts forward at the moment will have new signings regardless of formation. SS has used the system extensively. With the right players.
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Post by walrus on May 1, 2024 6:09:05 GMT
Hopefully he has the sense to leave it in the past. We’ve been absolutely garbage when he’s tried it, just like we were when Neil tried it. It’s so dependent on having actual decent wing-backs and neither of the ones in your prospective team is actually a Stoke player. 4-3-3 is a much better bet with our squad. Well of course... that's part of what I'm saying. If we recruit the right players we are on the right track. Any prospective, imaginary team anyone puts forward at the moment will have new signings regardless of formation. SS has used the system extensively. With the right players. It’s a huge gamble to start recruiting with the goal of playing a system that doesn’t work well for the majority of our existing squad. I really hope that’s not the plan, as the only way I see it potentially working is if we have another complete overhaul summer which comes with its own problems. The fact is that all our last three managers have tried playing wingback systems at one point or another with significantly varying personnel and they’ve never worked well, aside from arguably a brief period under MON at the start of the 2021/22 season. Wingbacks and Stoke City just don’t mix.
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Post by thornestein on May 1, 2024 6:34:04 GMT
Well of course... that's part of what I'm saying. If we recruit the right players we are on the right track. Any prospective, imaginary team anyone puts forward at the moment will have new signings regardless of formation. SS has used the system extensively. With the right players. It’s a huge gamble to start recruiting with the goal of playing a system that doesn’t work well for the majority of our existing squad. I really hope that’s not the plan, as the only way I see it potentially working is if we have another complete overhaul summer which comes with its own problems. The fact is that all our last three managers have tried playing wingback systems at one point or another with significantly varying personnel and they’ve never worked well, aside from arguably a brief period under MON at the start of the 2021/22 season. Wingbacks and Stoke City just don’t mix. exactly , we start playing wing backs and we’re fucked
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Post by Rick Grimes on May 1, 2024 6:40:58 GMT
Sign Harry and we have a genuine shot at top 6. He was imperious before we sold him and outstanding at the World Cup. We’re going to need a lot more than Harry Souttar. I don’t understand the clamour for him really, still way too expensive for us to buy back and I’d rather we get permanent CB’s on the books. It’s actually not that difficult to sign good CB’s at this level despite the complete mess we’ve made of it in recent seasons.
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Post by walrus on May 1, 2024 6:57:12 GMT
It’s a huge gamble to start recruiting with the goal of playing a system that doesn’t work well for the majority of our existing squad. I really hope that’s not the plan, as the only way I see it potentially working is if we have another complete overhaul summer which comes with its own problems. The fact is that all our last three managers have tried playing wingback systems at one point or another with significantly varying personnel and they’ve never worked well, aside from arguably a brief period under MON at the start of the 2021/22 season. Wingbacks and Stoke City just don’t mix. exactly , we start playing wing backs and we’re fucked The problem with wingbacks is that managers look at how it’s supposed to work in theory and in their arrogance think “yep, we can do that”. They look at teams like Chelsea’s last title winning side under Conte and try to replicate it but forget that instead of Victor Moses and Marcos Alonso they have Daniel Johnson, Tariq Fosu, Tom Sparrow, and Jordan Thompson (all players who have started games at wingback for us in the last couple of seasons). What’s a bit mad is that we actually had two players on the books recently in Tymon and Doughty who had the attributes to play the highly specialised wingback role and both were moved on by managers who liked playing with wingbacks.
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 1, 2024 6:58:57 GMT
Well of course... that's part of what I'm saying. If we recruit the right players we are on the right track. Any prospective, imaginary team anyone puts forward at the moment will have new signings regardless of formation. SS has used the system extensively. With the right players. It’s a huge gamble to start recruiting with the goal of playing a system that doesn’t work well for the majority of our existing squad. I really hope that’s not the plan, as the only way I see it potentially working is if we have another complete overhaul summer which comes with its own problems. The fact is that all our last three managers have tried playing wingback systems at one point or another with significantly varying personnel and they’ve never worked well, aside from arguably a brief period under MON at the start of the 2021/22 season. Wingbacks and Stoke City just don’t mix. We we’re decent with wingbacks under Gudjon……..
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Post by walrus on May 1, 2024 7:01:40 GMT
It’s a huge gamble to start recruiting with the goal of playing a system that doesn’t work well for the majority of our existing squad. I really hope that’s not the plan, as the only way I see it potentially working is if we have another complete overhaul summer which comes with its own problems. The fact is that all our last three managers have tried playing wingback systems at one point or another with significantly varying personnel and they’ve never worked well, aside from arguably a brief period under MON at the start of the 2021/22 season. Wingbacks and Stoke City just don’t mix. We we’re decent with wingbacks under Gudjon…….. I remember it being quite unpopular with fans at times and there being general murmurs of approval when we switched to a different system. Back then it was always referred to as a “back five” too, never a “back three”, which I agree with because for all but the very best teams it’s inherently a defensive system.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 1, 2024 7:06:22 GMT
exactly , we start playing wing backs and we’re fucked The problem with wingbacks is that managers look at how it’s supposed to work in theory and in their arrogance think “yep, we can do that”. They look at teams like Chelsea’s last title winning side under Conte and try to replicate it but forget that instead of Victor Moses and Marcos Alonso they have Daniel Johnson, Tariq Fosu, Tom Sparrow, and Jordan Thompson (all players who have started games at wingback for us in the last couple of seasons). What’s a bit mad is that we actually had two players on the books recently in Tymon and Doughty who had the attributes to play the highly specialised wingback role and both were moved on by managers who liked playing with wingbacks. But we used Tymon as one and it didn’t work. We based the whole system around him. Which was laughable really.
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Post by walrus on May 1, 2024 7:21:31 GMT
The problem with wingbacks is that managers look at how it’s supposed to work in theory and in their arrogance think “yep, we can do that”. They look at teams like Chelsea’s last title winning side under Conte and try to replicate it but forget that instead of Victor Moses and Marcos Alonso they have Daniel Johnson, Tariq Fosu, Tom Sparrow, and Jordan Thompson (all players who have started games at wingback for us in the last couple of seasons). What’s a bit mad is that we actually had two players on the books recently in Tymon and Doughty who had the attributes to play the highly specialised wingback role and both were moved on by managers who liked playing with wingbacks. But we used Tymon as one and it didn’t work. We based the whole system around him. Which was laughable really. True, which actually backs up my wider point in a way. If it didn’t work well when we actually had a decent wing back, it needs to never see the light of day when we don’t.
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Post by marylandstoke on May 1, 2024 9:01:51 GMT
exactly , we start playing wing backs and we’re fucked The problem with wingbacks is that managers look at how it’s supposed to work in theory and in their arrogance think “yep, we can do that”. They look at teams like Chelsea’s last title winning side under Conte and try to replicate it but forget that instead of Victor Moses and Marcos Alonso they have Daniel Johnson, Tariq Fosu, Tom Sparrow, and Jordan Thompson (all players who have started games at wingback for us in the last couple of seasons). What’s a bit mad is that we actually had two players on the books recently in Tymon and Doughty who had the attributes to play the highly specialised wingback role and both were moved on by managers who liked playing with wingbacks. Doughty really has looked a reasonable player when I’ve watched them this season.
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Post by lordb on May 1, 2024 11:29:27 GMT
It’s a huge gamble to start recruiting with the goal of playing a system that doesn’t work well for the majority of our existing squad. I really hope that’s not the plan, as the only way I see it potentially working is if we have another complete overhaul summer which comes with its own problems. The fact is that all our last three managers have tried playing wingback systems at one point or another with significantly varying personnel and they’ve never worked well, aside from arguably a brief period under MON at the start of the 2021/22 season. Wingbacks and Stoke City just don’t mix. We we’re decent with wingbacks under Gudjon…….. Well no? Once he switched from wing backs to a back 4 we got promoted had we not had the worst injury crisis we have ever had that season we would have won the division however that play off glory was not to be missed The season before with wing backs was a slog, Stoke fans were chanting 442
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Post by ParaPsych on May 1, 2024 11:40:32 GMT
We we’re decent with wingbacks under Gudjon…….. Well no? Once he switched from wing backs to a back 4 we got promoted had we not had the worst injury crisis we have ever had that season we would have won the division however that play off glory was not to be missed The season before with wing backs was a slog, Stoke fans were chanting 442 I've always been fine with the concept wing backs, but my god that was a prime example of not doing it right. 55 year old Tony Dorigo on the left ambling up to the halfway line before playing a long diagonal into the box in the hope the hapless Rikki Dadason will be able to do something with it.
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Post by femark on May 1, 2024 11:47:20 GMT
We don't need to bring Souttar back on loan. We need to find the next Souttar and sign them permanently.
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 1, 2024 12:46:05 GMT
We we’re decent with wingbacks under Gudjon…….. Well no? Once he switched from wing backs to a back 4 we got promoted had we not had the worst injury crisis we have ever had that season we would have won the division however that play off glory was not to be missed The season before with wing backs was a slog, Stoke fans were chanting 442 We made the play offs 3 seasons running with a mixture of 3 and 4 at the back. The reason it was more of a slog in 2001/02 is because of the ankle injury to Mikael Hansson that was career ending........
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Post by cvillestokie on May 1, 2024 13:11:53 GMT
Thought Shuey like a back three system. ..........Iversen.......... ...Wilmot..Harry...Rose....... Hoever...Burger..Thompson...Toffolo ............Bae.............. ......Millions....New ST.......... Lovely Hopefully he has the sense to leave it in the past. We’ve been absolutely garbage when he’s tried it, just like we were when Neil tried it. It’s so dependent on having actual decent wing-backs and neither of the ones in your prospective team is actually a Stoke player. 4-3-3 is a much better bet with our squad. The problem with 433 is that it’s been played for most of this season and we’ve only just escaped relegation with our top scorer on 6. Finding a striker that is actually capable of doing it all on his own is very challenging, especially when shopping in bargain basements.
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Post by walrus on May 1, 2024 13:24:27 GMT
Hopefully he has the sense to leave it in the past. We’ve been absolutely garbage when he’s tried it, just like we were when Neil tried it. It’s so dependent on having actual decent wing-backs and neither of the ones in your prospective team is actually a Stoke player. 4-3-3 is a much better bet with our squad. The problem with 433 is that it’s been played for most of this season and we’ve only just escaped relegation with our top scorer on 6. Finding a striker that is actually capable of doing it all on his own is very challenging, especially when shopping in bargain basements. I don’t blame our poor goals scored figure on the system. We’re thirteen goals scored under our expected goals number for this season which is the most pronounced shortfall in the league. At least with 4-3-3 we create chances even if we all too often miss them. Compare the home game against West Brom where we played 4-3-3 and with better finishing we’d have been out of sight by half time to the ones against other playoff chasing teams in Coventry and Norwich where we played with wingbacks and created absolutely nothing.
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Post by georgeberrysafro on May 1, 2024 14:19:28 GMT
Is this just speculation or do we have a credible source that's linking us to Soutter?
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Post by cvillestokie on May 1, 2024 19:31:36 GMT
The problem with 433 is that it’s been played for most of this season and we’ve only just escaped relegation with our top scorer on 6. Finding a striker that is actually capable of doing it all on his own is very challenging, especially when shopping in bargain basements. I don’t blame our poor goals scored figure on the system. We’re thirteen goals scored under our expected goals number for this season which is the most pronounced shortfall in the league. At least with 4-3-3 we create chances even if we all too often miss them. Compare the home game against West Brom where we played 4-3-3 and with better finishing we’d have been out of sight by half time to the ones against other playoff chasing teams in Coventry and Norwich where we played with wingbacks and created absolutely nothing. But that kind of is part of the point I was making. A striker in a 433 needs to be able to hold it up, bring others in to play, win aerial battles, press, and score goals. In contrast, with 2 strikers you can one player that has some of those attributes and a partner that has the other. Our current strikers: Mmaee - link up, can’t score Wesley - hold up, can’t score Campbell - runs the lines, can’t score. Ennis - press, can’t score. Edit: even with an extra 13 scored, you’d need to add 10+ on that to get close to the playoffs this year.
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Post by shakermaker on May 1, 2024 21:06:24 GMT
But we used Tymon as one and it didn’t work. We based the whole system around him. Which was laughable really. True, which actually backs up my wider point in a way. If it didn’t work well when we actually had a decent wing back, it needs to never see the light of day when we don’t. We had one decent wing back for the left. The system relies on having wing backs for both sides, which we didn’t have. Ironically, we now have a decent wing back for the right and not the left! 🤦
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Post by foxysgloves on May 1, 2024 21:07:35 GMT
The problem with wingbacks is that managers look at how it’s supposed to work in theory and in their arrogance think “yep, we can do that”. They look at teams like Chelsea’s last title winning side under Conte and try to replicate it but forget that instead of Victor Moses and Marcos Alonso they have Daniel Johnson, Tariq Fosu, Tom Sparrow, and Jordan Thompson (all players who have started games at wingback for us in the last couple of seasons). What’s a bit mad is that we actually had two players on the books recently in Tymon and Doughty who had the attributes to play the highly specialised wingback role and both were moved on by managers who liked playing with wingbacks. Doughty really has looked a reasonable player when I’ve watched them this season. Doughty is proof that we should persist with the likes of Hoever. Some players are just a step or two away from being premiership quality.
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Post by bertiestan on May 3, 2024 7:51:52 GMT
It’s a huge gamble to start recruiting with the goal of playing a system that doesn’t work well for the majority of our existing squad. I really hope that’s not the plan, as the only way I see it potentially working is if we have another complete overhaul summer which comes with its own problems. The fact is that all our last three managers have tried playing wingback systems at one point or another with significantly varying personnel and they’ve never worked well, aside from arguably a brief period under MON at the start of the 2021/22 season. Wingbacks and Stoke City just don’t mix. We we’re decent with wingbacks under Gudjon…….. Mikael Hanson was brilliant 🔴⚪️
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Post by nott1 on May 3, 2024 8:10:03 GMT
We don't need to bring Souttar back on loan. We need to find the next Souttar and sign them permanently. He hasn't even made it at LCFC so why would he be good enough here? We need promotion above all, mid table is no good to us!
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Post by mickeythemaestro on May 3, 2024 8:19:26 GMT
We don't need to bring Souttar back on loan. We need to find the next Souttar and sign them permanently. He hasn't even made it at LCFC so why would he be good enough here? We need promotion above all, mid table is no good to us! Good enough here? He is streets ahead of any CB we have on our books. That's not even a debate. Rose McNally or Wilmot better than Souttar?...leave it out 😆
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Post by thornestein on May 3, 2024 8:26:17 GMT
He hasn't even made it at LCFC so why would he be good enough here? We need promotion above all, mid table is no good to us! Good enough here? He is streets ahead of any CB we have on our books. That's not even a debate. Rose McNally or Wilmot better than Souttar?...leave it out 😆 yeah he’s better than what we have , but he’s got a mistake in him every game and only looks good in a 3 , for what it will cost even getting him on loan won’t be worth it , we need jared get his little book out and unearth a gem if he can
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Post by mickeythemaestro on May 3, 2024 8:29:50 GMT
Good enough here? He is streets ahead of any CB we have on our books. That's not even a debate. Rose McNally or Wilmot better than Souttar?...leave it out 😆 yeah he’s better than what we have , but he’s got a mistake in him every game and only looks good in a 3 , for what it will cost even getting him on loan won’t be worth it , we need jared get his little book out and unearth a gem if he can Agreed. Its just a shame we had to sell him in the first place, fucking FFP shyte 🤬
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Post by Gods on May 3, 2024 8:42:52 GMT
We got £15m rising to £20m for big Souttar didn't we?
He seemed to dine out on for months on 'that' World Cup game where he was Australia's talisman keeping Messi and company at bay.
We only got about half that fee for the other bloke. I had to look his name up! Nathan Collins it is, who went from Stoke to Burnley to Wolves to Brentford in the blink of an eye it seems.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 3, 2024 8:47:47 GMT
yeah he’s better than what we have , but he’s got a mistake in him every game and only looks good in a 3 , for what it will cost even getting him on loan won’t be worth it , we need jared get his little book out and unearth a gem if he can Agreed. Its just a shame we had to sell him in the first place, fucking FFP shyte 🤬 Why? We sold him for an absolute fortune that he isn’t worth. It was a great deal.
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Post by mickstupp on May 3, 2024 8:50:38 GMT
We got £15m rising to £20m for big Souttar didn't we? He seemed to dine out on for months on 'that' World Cup game where he was Australia's talisman keeing Messi and company at bay. We only got about half that fee for the other bloke. I had to look his name up! Nathan Collins it is, who went from Stoke to Burnley to Wolves to Brentford in the blink of an eye it seems. We sold Collins for an initial £12m but there were add ons and after his transfer to Wolves I think the final figure was around £16m.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on May 3, 2024 8:57:42 GMT
Agreed. Its just a shame we had to sell him in the first place, fucking FFP shyte 🤬 Why? We sold him for an absolute fortune that he isn’t worth. It was a great deal. Because without FFP he'd still be a Stoke player and he's country miles better than what we have.
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Post by yellowsnowman on May 3, 2024 9:01:44 GMT
We got £15m rising to £20m for big Souttar didn't we? He seemed to dine out on for months on 'that' World Cup game where he was Australia's talisman keeing Messi and company at bay. We only got about half that fee for the other bloke. I had to look his name up! Nathan Collins it is, who went from Stoke to Burnley to Wolves to Brentford in the blink of an eye it seems. We sold Collins for an initial £12m but there were add ons and after his transfer to Wolves I think the final figure was around £16m. Good player Collins.
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