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Post by Laughing Gravy on May 16, 2024 11:19:05 GMT
It isn't VAR per se that's the problem. It's the way the dicks run it. Way too heavy handed. The authority should be returned to the referee and linesmen on the pitch. this not flagging for obvious offsides and relying on VAR really pisses me off. If it's flagged for offside and given and wrong hard luck. If it's not flagged as offside and a goal ensues a quick check by VAR and if it's a blatant error ie one that the lino should have seen eg a full body's width rather than a toenail then go back and give it. No need for all the time spent no need for all the lines a quick look by VAR and if it looks off and is clear and obvious give it. Fuck the technology off bar the slow mo replays. Same with pennos and diving. Given or not given, a quick view of the replay and if it's an obvious error give the onfield ref the option to correct. None of this '5 minutes viewing it from every angle' bollocks. Simplify it and speed it up or fuck it off.
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Post by Los Alfareros on May 16, 2024 11:37:00 GMT
Slightly off topic, but did anyone else think that De Bruyne was offside for the first goal versus Totnum?
First thing I said to my lad was "he's just off", but it wasn't even looked at????
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Post by spitthedog on May 16, 2024 11:46:57 GMT
There was a penalty last night for Newcastle when Gordon was brought down. In real time you could miss it as the referee did. The VAR did not even look at it, yet on Sky it looked clear and obvious. if it is kept in I would like to see it used on players cheating. I am in the get rid camp, even with the replays, decisions are still wrong. Decisions are often 'more' wrong with replays. That is because freeze frames and slo-mo do not give a correct representation of what happens in real time. If you freeze at a point when two players feet touch, it can be easily interpreted as a foul, something that would not be the case of you look back in real time. Replays often distort the reality but officials don't seem to get this at all.
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Post by spitthedog on May 16, 2024 11:51:21 GMT
Before scrapping it totally we should be considering how it is being used. It was promoted as a way in which clear and obvious refereeing mistakes could be eradicated. The emphasis should be on 'clear and obvious'. In my opinion the on field officials should be officiating as if there is no VAR. The VAR referee should only interfere if there is a clear mistake, not millimetres offside. You could possibly allow a team one appeal per half but only when the incident is in the penalty area. If the video does not immediately show up a mistake the VAR referee should not be involve. It would also help if there was more retrospective action over dives, cheating and fouls which should be red carded. Problem is they have had 4 full seasons to get this right now. If anything it is getting worse and more irritating for fans, players and coaches so there is absolutely no evidence (at present) to suggest that they will ever learn to use it properly. It should be at least suspended until it is totally rethought, but I'm tending to think that the whole concept is inappropriate for football.
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Post by skip on May 16, 2024 12:06:32 GMT
100% players are feigning or exaggerating contact that they think will be picked up in slow-mo.
Fuck it off now.
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Post by GrahamHyde on May 16, 2024 12:07:26 GMT
Before scrapping it totally we should be considering how it is being used. It was promoted as a way in which clear and obvious refereeing mistakes could be eradicated. The emphasis should be on 'clear and obvious'. In my opinion the on field officials should be officiating as if there is no VAR. The VAR referee should only interfere if there is a clear mistake, not millimetres offside. You could possibly allow a team one appeal per half but only when the incident is in the penalty area. If the video does not immediately show up a mistake the VAR referee should not be involve. It would also help if there was more retrospective action over dives, cheating and fouls which should be red carded. Completely agree. I think about the forward pass in rugby and that could be utilised in the same way as an offside - just have them review once by eye in real-time and if it's not clear enough either way then stick with the original on-field decision (whether offside or onside). If you have to get the lines out, then it's not a 'clear and obvious' error.
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Post by georgeberrysafro on May 16, 2024 12:10:22 GMT
I've watched a few Prem games this season - usually background and didn't see any VAR issues so anything controversial is just what I read online. They've had 4 years and it's gotten worse - the hairline offside decisions are just bollocks, they've made too many mistakes and I hope they vote to get rid of it.
Has anyone gone through and looked at all the wrong decisions and seen how they would have changed the league? I remember that after the season we came down someone reviewed all the wrong decisions that could have been changed by VAR and we would have stayed up and Huddersfield would have been relegated (we deserved to go down anyway).
Why aren't they reviewing where they've gone wrong - or just limit it to certain decisions? Like penalty incidents but sack off the offside crap? I remember it seemed to work okay in the World Cup
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Post by spitthedog on May 16, 2024 12:12:35 GMT
100% players are feigning or exaggerating contact that they think will be picked up in slow-mo. Fuck it off now. A curse on the game that can be directly attributed to the introduction of VAR.
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Post by thehoof on May 16, 2024 12:14:44 GMT
The fact that “ clear and obvious” mistakes are made by VAR quite regularly- which includes not rectifying “ clear and obvious” mistakes made by the on field officials ( see last night’s Gordon incident), renders it totally meaningless to me. At the speed the game is played , ruling out goals for hyper marginal offsides is just ridiculous.
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Post by werrington on May 16, 2024 12:17:45 GMT
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Post by stokefc on May 16, 2024 12:18:22 GMT
I wonder what the conversations are in the dressing rooms before kick off or even in the week before the match about using VAR to the teams advantage , they must discuss it
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Post by skip on May 16, 2024 12:29:35 GMT
I wonder what the conversations are in the dressing rooms before kick off or even in the week before the match about using VAR to the teams advantage , they must discuss it Between themselves on the training group, guaranteed.
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Post by werrington on May 16, 2024 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on May 16, 2024 12:51:20 GMT
Think of the number of ‘mentals’ we’ve enjoyed over the years then think had VAR been in place its very likely they wouldn’t have happened.
Football supporting is about the ‘moment’, that special moment when the ref blows his whistle and points to the centre circle.
VAR takes all that joy away and should be consigned to the dustbin without further delay.
Hate it with a passion!
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on May 16, 2024 12:56:37 GMT
There was a penalty last night for Newcastle when Gordon was brought down. In real time you could miss it as the referee did. The VAR did not even look at it, yet on Sky it looked clear and obvious. if it is kept in I would like to see it used on players cheating. I am in the get rid camp, even with the replays, decisions are still wrong. Decisions are often 'more' wrong with replays. That is because freeze frames and slo-mo do not give a correct representation of what happens in real time. If you freeze at a point when two players feet touch, it can be easily interpreted as a foul, something that would not be the case of you look back in real time. Replays often distort the reality but officials don't seem to get this at all. Absolutely Has encouraged players to create contact Look at the Harry Wilson one a few weeks ago, along with Gordon and Sterling, the worst diver in the league Outstretched boot, puts his boot into.it and dived. Refs sees it in real times, books him, correct decision. Slo mo VAR replay shows his boot making contact and down he goes and overturns a correct decision. Any stray boot, players are doing the same and going down and creating fouls as a still or slo mo is showing contact. You see a touch on a boot followed by a theatrical fall as all VAR were looking at, the contact alone.. thankfully now are instructed to look at players going down too easily which.probably is why Gordon didn't get a pen for what possible was a genuine actual foul on him last night
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Post by shakermaker on May 16, 2024 13:15:57 GMT
That Coventry goal was the final straw for me. Thousands of fans going absolutely nuts only for someone sitting in a room miles away to intervene and take the best moment in their lives away from them for the sake of what was a pubic hair offside at most. Pathetic. I know small margins can seem superfluous, but that is the whole point of VAR. If a player is offside, how many inches should be considered offside? VAR has been brought in to identify accuracy that the naked eye would miss. If someone is a millimetre offside, then they're offside. What I object to is those parts of the body they include in determining offside. There is a case to argue whether a knee or shoulder should be included, as the ball is allowed to touch these parts. For this reason, I disagree in including hands.
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Post by shakermaker on May 16, 2024 13:19:19 GMT
Think of the number of ‘mentals’ we’ve enjoyed over the years then think had VAR been in place its very likely they wouldn’t have happened. Football supporting is about the ‘moment’, that special moment when the ref blows his whistle and points to the centre circle. VAR takes all that joy away and should be consigned to the dustbin without further delay. Hate it with a passion! But the integrity of sporting competition is about fairness and the correct decisions being made. The naked eye and speed of human thought can lead to mistakes that can potentially lead to the wrong team being relegated or missing out on a place in Europe. We all love our mentals, but there needs to be a sense of righteousness behind them.
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Post by shakermaker on May 16, 2024 13:26:06 GMT
It isn't VAR per se that's the problem. It's the way the dicks run it. Way too heavy handed. The authority should be returned to the referee and linesmen on the pitch. this not flagging for obvious offsides and relying on VAR really pisses me off. If it's flagged for offside and given and wrong hard luck. If it's not flagged as offside and a goal ensues a quick check by VAR and if it's a blatant error ie one that the lino should have seen eg a full body's width rather than a toenail then go back and give it. No need for all the time spent no need for all the lines a quick look by VAR and if it looks off and is clear and obvious give it. Fuck the technology off bar the slow mo replays. Same with pennos and diving. Given or not given, a quick view of the replay and if it's an obvious error give the onfield ref the option to correct. None of this '5 minutes viewing it from every angle' bollocks. Simplify it and speed it up or fuck it off. I'm just surprised that in this day and age, the VAR referees themselves need to dick about and draw the lines on themselves. The freeze frame image is often fuzzy at best and leading the VAR analysts to zoom in and out for over a minute. Isn't there functionality they can build into the software that can automatically draw a line at the correct angle of the pitch and then detect the point at which the alleged offside is being challenged? For instance, take a freeze frame of the alleged offside, then the software generates a 4D image (have seen that done plenty of times on punditry analysis). Zoom in and allow the software to plot the line. It would lead to decisions being made in under 30 seconds.
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Post by marylandstoke on May 16, 2024 13:35:44 GMT
Easy fix.
Make it a phone vote, line open for one minute.
1 800 Bugger-me-he’s just on.
or
1 800 One-day-I-may-need-a-media gig.
Calls charged at 50p. All proceeds to the brave top 6 teams to help in their fight to stay in the BIG cups.
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Post by telfordstokie on May 16, 2024 13:50:13 GMT
VAR used way quicker and more effectively in Champions League - surely must be possible to get it operating like that in the Prem.
Very difficult to put the genie back in the bottle completely - if you think there’s controversy now, if VAR was scrapped there’d constantly be massive uproar over decisions that would have been different without it.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on May 16, 2024 13:53:48 GMT
Think of the number of ‘mentals’ we’ve enjoyed over the years then think had VAR been in place its very likely they wouldn’t have happened. Football supporting is about the ‘moment’, that special moment when the ref blows his whistle and points to the centre circle. VAR takes all that joy away and should be consigned to the dustbin without further delay. Hate it with a passion! But the integrity of sporting competition is about fairness and the correct decisions being made. The naked eye and speed of human thought can lead to mistakes that can potentially lead to the wrong team being relegated or missing out on a place in Europe. We all love our mentals, but there needs to be a sense of righteousness behind them. Couldn’t agree with you less mate. Football is perhaps the greatest spectator sport on the planet and erstwhile what made it that was the instantaneous joy and delirium of seeing your team score a goal. Like everyone else, I could quote you dozens of instances where decisions have been proved to incorrect using the naked eye and obviously every effort should be made to reduce (never eliminate btw) these instances but using VAR takes away the very essence of why we go in the first place. Like I say consign it to the dustbin of history.
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Post by spitthedog on May 16, 2024 13:55:31 GMT
Think of the number of ‘mentals’ we’ve enjoyed over the years then think had VAR been in place its very likely they wouldn’t have happened. Football supporting is about the ‘moment’, that special moment when the ref blows his whistle and points to the centre circle. VAR takes all that joy away and should be consigned to the dustbin without further delay. Hate it with a passion! But the integrity of sporting competition is about fairness and the correct decisions being made. The naked eye and speed of human thought can lead to mistakes that can potentially lead to the wrong team being relegated or missing out on a place in Europe. We all love our mentals, but there needs to be a sense of righteousness behind them. Which would be all well and good but VAR doesn't invoke a sense of righteousness at all. In fact, the opposite, while at the same time totally undermining the sense of occasion and spontaneous celebration which is what attracted most supporters to the sport in the first place. I'm not sure whether I would have got into VAR football as a kid, when it takes 5 minutes to decide whether it's a goal or an offside. In that 5 minutes I think I would just switched on to something else tbh.
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Post by RF10 on May 16, 2024 13:55:46 GMT
There is no way it will be voted to get rid. Clubs are too scared now it's around.
Hopefully though with Wolves proposal it brings change to the awful system for the better.
I will never like it.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on May 16, 2024 14:15:11 GMT
VAR used way quicker and more effectively in Champions League - surely must be possible to get it operating like that in the Prem. Very difficult to put the genie back in the bottle completely - if you think there’s controversy now, if VAR was scrapped there’d constantly be massive uproar over decisions that would have been different without it. Don't they have the automated offsides in the CL which are coming in here supposedly.? Also with the hour time difference, it just seems quicker to decipher if someone is offside or not.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on May 16, 2024 15:32:20 GMT
It isn't VAR per se that's the problem. It's the way the dicks run it. Way too heavy handed. The authority should be returned to the referee and linesmen on the pitch. this not flagging for obvious offsides and relying on VAR really pisses me off. If it's flagged for offside and given and wrong hard luck. If it's not flagged as offside and a goal ensues a quick check by VAR and if it's a blatant error ie one that the lino should have seen eg a full body's width rather than a toenail then go back and give it. No need for all the time spent no need for all the lines a quick look by VAR and if it looks off and is clear and obvious give it. Fuck the technology off bar the slow mo replays. Same with pennos and diving. Given or not given, a quick view of the replay and if it's an obvious error give the onfield ref the option to correct. None of this '5 minutes viewing it from every angle' bollocks. Simplify it and speed it up or fuck it off. I'm just surprised that in this day and age, the VAR referees themselves need to dick about and draw the lines on themselves. The freeze frame image is often fuzzy at best and leading the VAR analysts to zoom in and out for over a minute. Isn't there functionality they can build into the software that can automatically draw a line at the correct angle of the pitch and then detect the point at which the alleged offside is being challenged? For instance, take a freeze frame of the alleged offside, then the software generates a 4D image (have seen that done plenty of times on punditry analysis). Zoom in and allow the software to plot the line. It would lead to decisions being made in under 30 seconds. You'd think so mate. They do it with the ball over the line angles on TV. Quite quickly produce a 3 D image and pan round it to show if the ball went over the line or not. But in the absence of workable technology bugger it off altogether.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 16, 2024 19:57:51 GMT
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Post by starkiller on May 16, 2024 23:47:58 GMT
Think of the number of ‘mentals’ we’ve enjoyed over the years then think had VAR been in place its very likely they wouldn’t have happened. Football supporting is about the ‘moment’, that special moment when the ref blows his whistle and points to the centre circle. VAR takes all that joy away and should be consigned to the dustbin without further delay. Hate it with a passion! Yeah. Even if the goal stands after VAR, the moment is ruined. None of this let's modify it crap, it has to go completely. And never be revived again.
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Post by tinofspam on May 17, 2024 0:17:01 GMT
I suppose if they weren’t so anal about the offsides it might work better. Instead of judging for a few minutes, just to make sure the players big toe was fully onside, just have it where it has to be clearly offside, this would surely allow checks to be done during celebrations. It would be rather crappy at times due to mentals not being as good but surely it would run a bit smoother and clear it up better. Apologies if somebody has already said this or if there is a hole in this idea, just feel it would help to run smoother
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wapiti
Youth Player
Posts: 400
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Post by wapiti on May 17, 2024 2:15:17 GMT
I suppose if they weren’t so anal about the offsides it might work better. Instead of judging for a few minutes, just to make sure the players big toe was fully onside, just have it where it has to be clearly offside, this would surely allow checks to be done during celebrations. It would be rather crappy at times due to mentals not being as good but surely it would run a bit smoother and clear it up better. Apologies if somebody has already said this or if there is a hole in this idea, just feel it would help to run smoother Good point. An inch or two "offside" would have no impact on the run of play......so, don't take it down to the millimeter and obsessive technicalities. Perhaps go with a small allowable distance (a foot??). But don't do that if it then becomes another delay to determine if it was a millimeter under of over a foot. Other areas of uneven decisions are hand balls and players wrestling/interfering in the penalty box.....some get punished, some don't. It's a tough game to referee to absolute compliance with the rule book.
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Post by PotterLog on May 17, 2024 3:18:38 GMT
I suppose if they weren’t so anal about the offsides it might work better. Instead of judging for a few minutes, just to make sure the players big toe was fully onside, just have it where it has to be clearly offside, this would surely allow checks to be done during celebrations. It would be rather crappy at times due to mentals not being as good but surely it would run a bit smoother and clear it up better. Apologies if somebody has already said this or if there is a hole in this idea, just feel it would help to run smoother Good point. An inch or two "offside" would have no impact on the run of play......so, don't take it down to the millimeter and obsessive technicalities. Perhaps go with a small allowable distance (a foot??). But don't do that if it then becomes another delay to determine if it was a millimeter under of over a foot. So how would you do it then? The line has to be actually drawn somewhere and there’s really no good answer to this - the suggestion of only pulling it back if it’s “clear” would result in a thousand times more outrage and controversy, don’t people realise this? What constitutes (and who decides what constitutes) a “clear” offside? The very first tight offside call you’d have three blokes in the VAR room deciding not to proceed with a review because it wasn’t “clear” enough, while thousands or millions of viewers and pundits around the world get incandescent with rage because to them it “clearly” was. And we’re all back at the mercy of a couple of officials’ subjective evaluation. Better to do away with it completely. I’m not a huge fan but if it’s going to be used for offsides then a definite line which removes the subjectivity as much as possible simply has to be drawn, there’s no way around it.
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