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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 29, 2024 1:30:34 GMT
They remain anonymous because of a potential social media cancellation storm that could ruin their ongoing career prospects. The comments in this article weren't vindictive so to me seem highly plausible to be a true opinion of someone who knows more than us rather than someone peddling baseless bile as part of an agenda. Fair enough - I accept that in some cases that may be a valid reason in the world we now live it. Instinctively, I don't like anonymity in public discourse unless there is a very good reason. It's why I only ever use my proper name on social media. I still think the Chairman should have been given an opportunity to respond, because I want to know what his response is, and, more importantly, what his strategy is for the future ( interesting though analyses about what's gone wrong in the past are).
Which specific points in the article would you like the Chairman to have been given the opportunity to respond to Malcolm?
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Post by clivey05 on Mar 29, 2024 5:10:01 GMT
Aye I don't disagree with any of that mate. Was still a clusterfuck of epic proportions when he walked in, made worse only by himself though So I can see why he's saying it was the toughest job of his career but in the end he made a fucking pigs ear of it anyway. I'd trust me or you to build a more cohesive squad with £60m than that twat. Seems to me John is too nice. He brings these managers in and becomes their mate. And so the lethargy sets in and managers realise if they give him some spiel it'll get him off their backs. And the whole thing cascades down through the club. We need a bastard running the show. Someone who is universally feared to the point people realise if they don't work hard and do what they have been employed to do they will get fucked reet off sharpish.. That’s exactly why Joe Lewis has Daniel Levy running Spurs for him.
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Post by davethebass on Mar 29, 2024 6:46:41 GMT
from 40minutes in its when QPR went down , its sounds like us when we went down Les Ferdinand technical director? Edit: just seen the Jon Walters video, and seen some discussion on the other thread, and I'm now thinking I'd rather we kept Jon Walters in the job
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Post by theonlooker on Mar 29, 2024 7:29:18 GMT
I remain absolutely convinced that this club will not progress until the Coates no longer own it. I feel the exact opposite. Lose the Coates and we're Port Vale. We'll be playing them next season though if things go wrong in the next 8 games. It would have cost us, if you believe the Athletic article, well over 170M to get there. Just think, without the Coates' it would have been a lot less!
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Post by Gods on Mar 29, 2024 7:36:21 GMT
I feel the exact opposite. Lose the Coates and we're Port Vale. I mean, we're not far off are we? They could still survive and if we go down, we're in the same league as them. True. But down and out with money is better than down and broke. At least then there remains hope.
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Post by jokker on Mar 29, 2024 7:38:52 GMT
I remain absolutely convinced that this club will not progress until the Coates no longer own it. I feel the exact opposite. Lose the Coates and we're Port Vale. Or we''re past tense. SCFC would cease to exist.
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Post by jokker on Mar 29, 2024 7:44:58 GMT
Jon needs to get a director of football he believes in and let him run the club. Becoming mates with the manager etc is just wrong if true Peter Coates was mates with Tony Pulis - or it may have been more of a father-son releationship, according to Pulis himself. It worked a treat for Stoke. Jon Coates is mates with Jones and Schuhmacher and then it is "just wrong"...
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 29, 2024 8:07:41 GMT
Interesting point. Is there a bet365 vs The Club Flash point that's inadvertently been created... The article does touch on it. I found the comment about Smith needing protection when he's out to be a bit odd. Protection from what.....kidnappers? the threat of kidnap and ransom demand against Denise and her husband Richard and the children is enormous given the wealth they possess, the security arrangements just to get the kids to school is beyond belief, they simply are not allowed out of site of security, Richard used to be a regular denzien of the Sandbach pub scene along with my late godfather Robbo who was also the head of payroll down the club, there was often a chap sat in the corner with him back then, you wouldn't have necessarily noticed but its not a new thing, its for the safety of himself and his family. To my knowledge him and John get on very well or they seem too, so lets not start a new rumour that they dont like each other based on some over analysis on what is a pretty dull article that is just a retelling of the last few years full of anonymous sources. Denise’s children actually go to school under a cloud of anonymity with no one knowing who their actual parents are and surnames that don’t link them to the Coates family. The little bits I hear of Denise’s life is actually quite sad. I wonder why it’s her and her family that are security risks. Maybe Jon and Peter would be left to fend for themselves if they were kidnapped hence they need no security. 😂
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Post by headsgoup on Mar 29, 2024 8:52:14 GMT
FFP laws exist only to maintain the status quo.
They have nothing to do with stabilising clubs; if they did, we wouldn't have to sell assets owned by the club just to balance the books.
This is clearly destabilising, and just one example of how it actively tears clubs apart.
The Coates are still to blame somewhat, because from the article it seems they have created an environment where failure isn't a possibility, rather than isn't an option.
It's no wonder people slack off.
But FFP places them in such a bizarre bind it's impossible not to have sympathy.
What an odd, unsporting, structure English football finds itself in.
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Post by danceswithclams on Mar 29, 2024 8:53:06 GMT
I feel the exact opposite. Lose the Coates and we're Port Vale. Or we''re past tense. SCFC would cease to exist. Absolute bollocks. There was a Stoke City FC long before the Coates family and there'll be one long after they've gone. The idea that they are the club is nonsense.
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Post by liathroid on Mar 29, 2024 9:12:28 GMT
from 40minutes in its when QPR went down , its sounds like us when we went down Les Ferdinand technical director? Edit: just seen the Jon Walters video, and seen some discussion on the other thread, and I'm now thinking I'd rather we kept Jon Walters in the job no dont want Les , but he was saying when QPR went down they were like us players on big money that they couldnt get rid of and new players coming in their agents wanted big money too thinking they were a soft touch
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Post by WorkingclassHero on Mar 29, 2024 9:23:55 GMT
Jon needs to get a director of football he believes in and let him run the club. Becoming mates with the manager etc is just wrong if true Peter Coates was mates with Tony Pulis - or it may have been more of a father-son releationship, according to Pulis himself. It worked a treat for Stoke. Jon Coates is mates with Jones and Schuhmacher and then it is "just wrong"... I never got the impression they were "mates" mutual respect/sounding board maybe. Being matey with the manager cannot make decision making easier, certainly not in my experience.
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Post by davethebass on Mar 29, 2024 9:41:18 GMT
Les Ferdinand technical director? Edit: just seen the Jon Walters video, and seen some discussion on the other thread, and I'm now thinking I'd rather we kept Jon Walters in the job no dont want Les , but he was saying when QPR went down they were like us players on big money that they couldnt get rid of and new players coming in their agents wanted big money too thinking they were a soft touch Yeah me neither after I'd thought about it more, and seen some discussion about Jon Walters. But yeah that was interesting what he was saying about when QPR went down, many parallels with us there when we went down. And puts it into perspective what a good job MON did for us too I think
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Post by skip on Mar 29, 2024 9:43:10 GMT
More than likely Malcolm - it's the implication that the Bet365 staff might not be in tune with the "footballing way of doing things" if coaching staff are waiting around for someone to open up in a morning that was interesting. If the coaching staff are waiting for someone to open up, then they must be thick. Anyway, surely it gives them even more time to organise their training session. There is certainly no evidence that it has improved their coaching, so another 5/10 minutes would be very unlikely to make any difference. Pay the caretaker and their staff to turn up an hour earlier. If Bet365 own the training ground and run the facilities, it should be open and ready to go the moment the footballing staff turn up and not a moment later. It's this kind of sloppiness that has got us partly where we are. A club that is farting money but lacks the professionalism that should be expected of a club of our size. Get the fucking doors open, get the lights on, and be ready. It's not hard.
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Post by independent on Mar 29, 2024 9:43:17 GMT
Or we''re past tense. SCFC would cease to exist. Absolute bollocks. There was a Stoke City FC long before the Coates family and there'll be one long after they've gone. The idea that they are the club is nonsense. Very true, but probably a very different club would be the result. Maybe better, maybe worse. Having money behind you enables you to survive your mistakes. You only have to look at the bad buys that big clubs have made over the years. Times have changed and are very different now, with lots of 100 year old clubs struggling to survive. Make no mistake there will still be a Bury just as there is a Bradford [Park Avenue] and lots more, but most will be outside the EFL. If the Premier League win their case, (that they are not obliged to subsidise the EFL) then I can see a lot more clubs unable to pay their way.
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Post by nottsover60 on Mar 29, 2024 10:07:17 GMT
Peter Coates was mates with Tony Pulis - or it may have been more of a father-son releationship, according to Pulis himself. It worked a treat for Stoke. Jon Coates is mates with Jones and Schuhmacher and then it is "just wrong"... I never got the impression they were "mates" mutual respect/sounding board maybe. Being matey with the manager cannot make decision making easier, certainly not in my experience. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-tony-pulis-cosh-8122935I disagree and in this article Pulis actually says he counts Coates as his friend. I think somewhere else he has talked about still having contact with Coates as a friend even after he was sacked. The bit at the end about the groundsmen gives an interesting insight. Pulis felt the groundsmen were slacking but when he told Peter it seems that he was very laid back about it. Pulis clearly felt that if you let even groundsmen away with slacking, then disrespect would filter throughout the club. He doesn't say how the situation ended but it might give a bit of insight into why things have drifted since Pulis left with no one filling that gap of keeping everyone on their toes, maintaining the standards. I wouldn't want him back as a manager but if he could leave a manager to manage he could be a good DoF. I suspect he's too much of a control freak to do that though.
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Post by thornestein on Mar 29, 2024 10:41:30 GMT
I feel the exact opposite. Lose the Coates and we're Port Vale. We'll be playing them next season though if things go wrong in the next 8 games. It would have cost us, if you believe the Athletic article, well over 170M to get there. Just think, without the Coates' it would have been a lot less! i don’t really care what they spend , i do care they keep employing shit managers who waste it though
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Post by jokker on Mar 29, 2024 10:54:22 GMT
Or we''re past tense. SCFC would cease to exist. Absolute bollocks. There was a Stoke City FC long before the Coates family and there'll be one long after they've gone. The idea that they are the club is nonsense. The difference is the money they've poured into the club. Remove that, pay them back their outlay, and what do you have? Other traditional clubs have ceased to be too.
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Post by jokker on Mar 29, 2024 10:56:25 GMT
Peter Coates was mates with Tony Pulis - or it may have been more of a father-son releationship, according to Pulis himself. It worked a treat for Stoke. Jon Coates is mates with Jones and Schuhmacher and then it is "just wrong"... I never got the impression they were "mates" mutual respect/sounding board maybe. Being matey with the manager cannot make decision making easier, certainly not in my experience. They were more than mates, as I said in the next sentence. I just used the term used in the op.
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Post by jokker on Mar 29, 2024 11:00:07 GMT
I never got the impression they were "mates" mutual respect/sounding board maybe. Being matey with the manager cannot make decision making easier, certainly not in my experience. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-tony-pulis-cosh-8122935I disagree and in this article Pulis actually says he counts Coates as his friend. I think somewhere else he has talked about still having contact with Coates as a friend even after he was sacked. The bit at the end about the groundsmen gives an interesting insight. Pulis felt the groundsmen were slacking but when he told Peter it seems that he was very laid back about it. Pulis clearly felt that if you let even groundsmen away with slacking, then disrespect would filter throughout the club. He doesn't say how the situation ended but it might give a bit of insight into why things have drifted since Pulis left with no one filling that gap of keeping everyone on their toes, maintaining the standards. I wouldn't want him back as a manager but if he could leave a manager to manage he could be a good DoF. I suspect he's too much of a control freak to do that though. Yes. Whenever Pulis was offered a job after Stoke, he asked Peter Coates for advice, perhaps even wanting his approval. Some of the clubs Pulis managed afterwards, the fans might question the advice though...
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 29, 2024 11:04:13 GMT
I think it's time for the Coates family to forget about throwing money away on this club. It'll never work.
That 170 million could have been spent on so much good in a time of climate crisis, poverty crisis.
On the other point about the atmosphere in the club. Introduce a Bilbao type policy, only train and play people from the area. Get some identity into the club
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Post by clarkeda on Mar 29, 2024 11:18:38 GMT
Very good - and very depressing - article. My takeaway is the Coates money is a blessing and curse. The knowledge that they will effectively bail out any problem no matter how poorly we are doing in the league has obviously had a major effect on motivation and contributed to the downward spiral. And as for Afobe being on £48,000 a week - complete and utter insanity.[/b] “Rowett’s Stoke were favourites for promotion before that game, but the Championship has gradually consumed them. Their gamble on an immediate return backfired and began a churn of personnel that shows little sign of abating. “I always saw Stoke as a bit of an oil tanker that did need stopping and turning around,” Rowett has said. “The toughest job I had by a mile.”” Difficult to stop the oil tanker when you sign the likes of BA and SC and others on ludicrously overinflated long term contracts. Has any high profile and highly paid player signed in the years in the run up to and since relegation actually lived up to their billing or improved? [/quote] I’d argue SC did. His goals kept us up one season.
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Post by hoppo96 on Mar 29, 2024 13:17:23 GMT
I think it's time for the Coates family to forget about throwing money away on this club. It'll never work. That 170 million could have been spent on so much good in a time of climate crisis, poverty crisis. On the other point about the atmosphere in the club. Introduce a Bilbao type policy, only train and play people from the area. Get some identity into the club sounds great but I hope the fans are happy when we're in non league
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Post by hoppo96 on Mar 29, 2024 13:18:22 GMT
Or we''re past tense. SCFC would cease to exist. Absolute bollocks. There was a Stoke City FC long before the Coates family and there'll be one long after they've gone. The idea that they are the club is nonsense. blasphemy, we were bacteria in the soup before our overlords come and guided us to better things.
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Post by hoppo96 on Mar 29, 2024 13:24:00 GMT
Problem is the club has/had no need, no urgency to be better. Whether it's the recruitment process, the food served at the ground, the lack of engagement on match days, the women's team, etc. They've had to be pulled kicking and screaming to do anything about any of these.
It has no outside voices, we're completely reliant on the thoughts and views of the world's most naive billionaire and his dad who is too old to take a proper role anymore.
We took the wrong lessons from that relegation, it was blamed entirely on the foreign bad signings, yeah they were bad but a big reason we went down was we were starting Johnson, Adam, Fletcher & Crouch in key games. Giving Joe Allen a big contract he'd naturally not give up and then applauding him for loyalty. Signing over the hill players like Dwight Gayle and Stephen Ward. We're now onto our fifth or sixth squad since relegation, and probably lack the headroom for Schumacher to build a seventh.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Mar 29, 2024 13:25:40 GMT
Problem is the club has/had no need, no urgency to be better. Whether it's the recruitment process, the food served at the ground, the lack of engagement on match days, the women's team, etc. They've had to be pulled kicking and screaming to do anything about any of these. It has no outside voices, we're completely reliant on the thoughts and views of the world's most naive billionaire and his dad who is too old to take a proper role anymore. We took the wrong lessons from that relegation, it was blamed entirely on the foreign bad signings, yeah they were bad but a big reason we went down was we were starting Johnson, Adam, Fletcher & Crouch in key games. Giving Joe Allen a big contract he'd naturally not give up and then applauding him for loyalty. Signing over the hill players like Dwight Gayle and Stephen Ward. We're now onto our fifth or sixth squad since relegation, and probably lack the headroom for Schumacher to build a seventh. Spot on
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Post by biddulphchav on Mar 29, 2024 14:37:07 GMT
Aye I don't disagree with any of that mate. Was still a clusterfuck of epic proportions when he walked in, made worse only by himself though So I can see why he's saying it was the toughest job of his career but in the end he made a fucking pigs ear of it anyway. I'd trust me or you to build a more cohesive squad with £60m than that twat. Seems to me John is too nice. He brings these managers in and becomes their mate. And so the lethargy sets in and managers realise if they give him some spiel it'll get him off their backs. And the whole thing cascades down through the club. We need a bastard running the show. Someone who is universally feared to the point people realise if they don't work hard and do what they have been employed to do they will get fucked reet off sharpish.. There is a name for what you are suggesting. It’s called a knee jerk. Replacing someone seen as too soft or too nice with a bastard that everybody fears (and probably hates) has to be one of the dumbest things we can do. What we need is someone who holds people accountable when they fall short of expectations, but at the same time, can help those people fulfill their potential. We definitely don’t need some old school arsehole going around tearing strips off people
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 29, 2024 14:42:03 GMT
Seems to me John is too nice. He brings these managers in and becomes their mate. And so the lethargy sets in and managers realise if they give him some spiel it'll get him off their backs. And the whole thing cascades down through the club. We need a bastard running the show. Someone who is universally feared to the point people realise if they don't work hard and do what they have been employed to do they will get fucked reet off sharpish.. There is a name for what you are suggesting. It’s called a knee jerk. Replacing someone seen as too soft or too nice with a bastard that everybody fears (and probably hates) has to be one of the dumbest things we can do. What we need is someone who holds people accountable when they fall short of expectations, but at the same time, can help those people fulfill their potential. We definitely don’t need some old school arsehole going around tearing strips off people Fair enough, but either way being too nice isn't working. John needs to be feared more..
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Post by biddulphchav on Mar 29, 2024 14:45:54 GMT
There is a name for what you are suggesting. It’s called a knee jerk. Replacing someone seen as too soft or too nice with a bastard that everybody fears (and probably hates) has to be one of the dumbest things we can do. What we need is someone who holds people accountable when they fall short of expectations, but at the same time, can help those people fulfill their potential. We definitely don’t need some old school arsehole going around tearing strips off people Fair enough, but either way being too nice isn't working. John needs to be feared more.. Totally agree with that. He’s got to maintain some distance from the managers, I think he gets too close / friendly. Eventhough Schumacher seems like a disaster I have a feeling he’s also motivated through fear in this situation though as if he takes us down his reputation takes a hammering and his next job will probably be back in League 1 on peanuts. So that’s a plus, I suppose
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 29, 2024 15:03:11 GMT
Fair enough, but either way being too nice isn't working. John needs to be feared more.. Totally agree with that. He’s got to maintain some distance from the managers, I think he gets too close / friendly. Eventhough Schumacher seems like a disaster I have a feeling he’s also motivated through fear in this situation though as if he takes us down his reputation takes a hammering and his next job will probably be back in League 1 on peanuts. So that’s a plus, I suppose I think if we get relegated he'll be managing us in league 1 on his current salary. Unless JC was smart enough to put a clause in to reduce his salary in the event of relegation. Who knows. But I honestly think he'll stay either way. JC needs Schumacher to succeed in my opinion or else JC knows everyone will finally all agree that it is him who is indeed the main problem.
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