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Post by Pugsley on Mar 28, 2024 12:25:42 GMT
The best quote in the article, can’t be arsed to find it, goes something like this……….its like buying your lad the most expensive top of the range sledge then it doesn’t snow for 6 years. A perfect analogy imo. What have we brought that is top of the range? We've brought mainly rubbish.
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Post by Gods on Mar 28, 2024 12:32:46 GMT
Strange to quote an anonymous former player. Even the fan 'Hancock', does it say somewhere it's Nick Hancock? I couldn't immediately see it but I didn't have the strength to tackle the whole weighty tome! Yes, it does say its Nick Hancock, Gods. "For Stoke fans, it’s as if we’ve been given an amazing sledge but then it hasn’t snowed for six years,” says Nick Hancock, professional comedian, Stoke fan and co-host of The Famous Sloping Pitch podcast."Nice quote 😆
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 28, 2024 13:04:08 GMT
Yes I think a lot of us have been saying, there's a lack of communication in the club, lack of shared goals, lack of intensity. Schumacher wants to change it, so does Walters, they need the time and support. People who didn't hit performance standards need to be booted out the club
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Post by rowleyscfc on Mar 28, 2024 13:13:25 GMT
Manager job to unify a dressing room imo, and if you can't unify it you have to make big calls, same as management in any business. He should of been able to build a squad from scratch with 60 million and win the championship, spent it on Afobe, Clucas ect. Aye I don't disagree with any of that mate. Was still a clusterfuck of epic proportions when he walked in, made worse only by himself though So I can see why he's saying it was the toughest job of his career but in the end he made a fucking pigs ear of it anyway. I'd trust me or you to build a more cohesive squad with £60m than that twat. Defo, a lot of players just stood out like sore thumbs when we come down, most of them are prem and international players now.
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Post by stokeyank on Mar 28, 2024 13:16:03 GMT
My whole take away was that there are two people both trying to run the club/business and they don't work together or like each other. Jon Coates and Richard Smith. One is trying to run a football club (altghough poorly) the other is just running a bussiness. Too many staff work for one or the other and look out for who they report to. So you end up with conflicting interests and lack of continutity at every part of the club. Thet type of setup will ALWAYS fail, especially at a place that requires togetherness to succeed.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 28, 2024 13:22:08 GMT
My whole take away was that there are two people both trying to run the club/business and they don't work together or like each other. Jon Coates and Richard Smith. One is trying to run a football club (altghough poorly) the other is just running a bussiness. Too many staff work for one or the other and look out for who they report to. So you end up with conflicting interests and lack of continutity at every part of the club. Thet type of setup will ALWAYS fail, especially at a place that requires togetherness to succeed. Interesting point. Is there a bet365 vs The Club Flash point that's inadvertently been created... The article does touch on it. I found the comment about Smith needing protection when he's out to be a bit odd. Protection from what.....kidnappers?
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 28, 2024 13:22:39 GMT
It's certainly an interesting read. Quite a lot of it is telling the Athletic readers things which we, as Stoke fans, already know. I just add a couple of notes of caution. Quite a lot of it cites the views of anonymous "former senior employees" and "former players". We don't know who these people are, what role they had at the club, how long they were at Stoke for, how good they were at their job, why they left, why they have to remain anonymous and whether they have any personal agendas. I am always a little wary of articles which present such anonymous opinions as "fact". Second, the author(s) cite no evidence of having approached the owners for comment on any of the topics they cover, or responses to any of the assessments made of the owners by their anonymous interviewees. If that is so, it's poor journalism. Of course, when Stoke City Connect is set up, monitored by the new Regulator, it will be able to explore with the owners some of these issues, particularly the financial ones and the strategic direction of the Club. Bring it on ! Good to have that viewpoint for balance and of course it's advisable to maintain a healthy scepticism about anonymous sources but I'm not sure that's quite right Malcolm. The quotes are very much presented as opinion rather than fact, backing up the assessment of the writer, and that's precisely why an approach to the owners wouldn't have been appropriate - it's an assessment of the culture at the club based (in part) on the opinions of people who have been close to it - there are no concrete allegations made so what is there for the owners to respond to really? What would they say in response to "our sources say there is a culture of complacency" or "some ex-employees say you're too nice John"... obviously they're just going to deny it or (more likely) not say anything. To be honest I think it would be almost disrespectful to even ask them for a comment on those things.
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Post by LGH87 on Mar 28, 2024 13:25:16 GMT
Aye I don't disagree with any of that mate. Was still a clusterfuck of epic proportions when he walked in, made worse only by himself though So I can see why he's saying it was the toughest job of his career but in the end he made a fucking pigs ear of it anyway. I'd trust me or you to build a more cohesive squad with £60m than that twat. Defo, a lot of players just stood out like sore thumbs when we come down, most of them are prem and international players now. We could've signed Watkins, Toney & Bowen and still had change out of what we paid for Afobe, Ince & McClean
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 28, 2024 13:25:41 GMT
My whole take away was that there are two people both trying to run the club/business and they don't work together or like each other. Jon Coates and Richard Smith. One is trying to run a football club (altghough poorly) the other is just running a bussiness. Too many staff work for one or the other and look out for who they report to. So you end up with conflicting interests and lack of continutity at every part of the club. Thet type of setup will ALWAYS fail, especially at a place that requires togetherness to succeed. Interesting point. Is there a bet365 vs The Club Flash point that's inadvertently been created... The article does touch on it. I found the comment about Smith needing protection when he's out to be a bit odd. Protection from what.....kidnappers? I think that's Denise who needs the protection
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Post by flea79 on Mar 28, 2024 14:11:47 GMT
My whole take away was that there are two people both trying to run the club/business and they don't work together or like each other. Jon Coates and Richard Smith. One is trying to run a football club (altghough poorly) the other is just running a bussiness. Too many staff work for one or the other and look out for who they report to. So you end up with conflicting interests and lack of continutity at every part of the club. Thet type of setup will ALWAYS fail, especially at a place that requires togetherness to succeed. Interesting point. Is there a bet365 vs The Club Flash point that's inadvertently been created... The article does touch on it. I found the comment about Smith needing protection when he's out to be a bit odd. Protection from what.....kidnappers? the threat of kidnap and ransom demand against Denise and her husband Richard and the children is enormous given the wealth they possess, the security arrangements just to get the kids to school is beyond belief, they simply are not allowed out of site of security, Richard used to be a regular denzien of the Sandbach pub scene along with my late godfather Robbo who was also the head of payroll down the club, there was often a chap sat in the corner with him back then, you wouldn't have necessarily noticed but its not a new thing, its for the safety of himself and his family. To my knowledge him and John get on very well or they seem too, so lets not start a new rumour that they dont like each other based on some over analysis on what is a pretty dull article that is just a retelling of the last few years full of anonymous sources.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 28, 2024 14:44:17 GMT
That's your opinion but it's just good journalism to give people who are questioned or criticised, the opportunity to respond and give their perspective. But more than that, as a reader and Stoke fan, I would very much like to know how the Chairman responds to some of these points and issues. I couldn't make the Q & A he attended a short while back. Had I been able to do so, and had my question(s) been selected, I would have asked him. I very much want to know what he thinks, and more specifically, what is his strategic plan for the future. Maybe they did, you don't know. The Coates's have never responded to these kind of points in detail ever as far as I can remember and that's going back years. "We're disappointed... We support the club... we're committed" is the best you can hope for. Fair enough, it's their prerogative and can do as they please. Facts can be seen on the pitch. I watched it on-line and the questions I would have asked weren't put - I don't know whether that was because nobody wanted to ask them, or whether the questions were filtered. I think when the new arrangements come in, it will be more difficult not to address those questions.
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Post by nottsover60 on Mar 28, 2024 14:45:18 GMT
The two bits I took away were first how comfortable everyone seems to feel. There is no sense of trying to hit targets or budgets allegedly as there is a feeling that the Coates will just cover the losses or put in more money which strikes a chord with me. There is no real urgency to make the best signings we can because there will always be money to spend next window. I even remember naively thinking in the Premier that having owners who were supporters they would make sure we didn't get relegated. Schumacher is we are told privately dismayed by how many players are comfortable with their lot and don't make any effort to win matches at all costs. Again I can see that being the case. Is it true that bonuses were scrapped under Scholes? Where is the incentive to win matches or score and prevent goals? How often have we watched a clearly inferior team ability and skill wise win because they just want it more? Perhaps we need to look at incentives.
The second point is the disconnect between players and fans talked about by a former player. I don't blame the fans but we will be the ones still here next year, in five years, ten years. We are the ones who will suffer next season if we get relegated. Most players will be here for another year max. Why should they care? We care but I wonder if we have got so used to the comfort blanket of rich owners that we are not proactive enough, willing to blame the owners, the managers, the players. There seems to be apathy throughout the club. I think that is why Walters was a breath of fresh air, somebody who was actually enthusiastic and cared. But even he's been very quiet publicly since his initial rallying call.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 28, 2024 14:49:42 GMT
Interesting point. Is there a bet365 vs The Club Flash point that's inadvertently been created... The article does touch on it. I found the comment about Smith needing protection when he's out to be a bit odd. Protection from what.....kidnappers? the threat of kidnap and ransom demand against Denise and her husband Richard and the children is enormous given the wealth they possess, the security arrangements just to get the kids to school is beyond belief, they simply are not allowed out of site of security, Richard used to be a regular denzien of the Sandbach pub scene along with my late godfather Robbo who was also the head of payroll down the club, there was often a chap sat in the corner with him back then, you wouldn't have necessarily noticed but its not a new thing, its for the safety of himself and his family. To my knowledge him and John get on very well or they seem too, so lets not start a new rumour that they dont like each other based on some over analysis on what is a pretty dull article that is just a retelling of the last few years full of anonymous sources. Not trying to create any rumours. But I do think that article has some merit about what's wrong with the culture inside the club. We've gone soft basically since TP left. No identity whatsoever. In other words we don't know what we're doing and people are rocking up here taking advantage of John's apparent pleasant nature.
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JudgeMental
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Post by JudgeMental on Mar 28, 2024 14:56:04 GMT
My whole take away was that there are two people both trying to run the club/business and they don't work together or like each other. Jon Coates and Richard Smith. One is trying to run a football club (altghough poorly) the other is just running a bussiness. Too many staff work for one or the other and look out for who they report to. So you end up with conflicting interests and lack of continutity at every part of the club. Thet type of setup will ALWAYS fail, especially at a place that requires togetherness to succeed. Interesting point. Is there a bet365 vs The Club Flash point that's inadvertently been created... The article does touch on it. I found the comment about Smith needing protection when he's out to be a bit odd. Protection from what.....kidnappers? I'm intrigued that the Training facilities (Clayton Wood) are managed by Bet365 staff. ??
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 28, 2024 14:59:42 GMT
Interesting point. Is there a bet365 vs The Club Flash point that's inadvertently been created... The article does touch on it. I found the comment about Smith needing protection when he's out to be a bit odd. Protection from what.....kidnappers? I'm intrigued that the Training facilities (Clayton Wood) are managed by Bet365 staff. ?? Like any large organisation there are always differences between internal areas of the company. I could see how with different masters things can be interpreted differently. Hopefully that's not the case and they all pull in the same direction. But something is definitely wrong. Nobody can deny that..
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 28, 2024 15:13:34 GMT
Interesting point. Is there a bet365 vs The Club Flash point that's inadvertently been created... The article does touch on it. I found the comment about Smith needing protection when he's out to be a bit odd. Protection from what.....kidnappers? I'm intrigued that the Training facilities (Clayton Wood) are managed by Bet365 staff. ?? I was intrigued as well but I assume it’s the facilities management, and nothing to do with the coaching, and that it’s for accountancy reasons.
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Post by jokker on Mar 28, 2024 15:55:49 GMT
It's clear John Coates is far too close to the day to day football matters... lunch in the canteen with footballers doesn't sound right to me. Is he just one of the lads or the bloke who is running the club and expecting results? There is also an arrogance around throwing money at 'problems' and expecting things to magically change. Said it for years - we're lazy arsed. As for the rest, christ on a bike. All to obvious, everything is manifested on the pitch. I think that's a misunderstanding on the part of the journo. Coates does go to a one weekly lunch, but it's with the manager, not the players. His father did that for years, and it's just been continued, that's all.
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Post by jokker on Mar 28, 2024 15:58:55 GMT
My whole take away was that there are two people both trying to run the club/business and they don't work together or like each other. Jon Coates and Richard Smith. One is trying to run a football club (altghough poorly) the other is just running a bussiness. Too many staff work for one or the other and look out for who they report to. So you end up with conflicting interests and lack of continutity at every part of the club. Thet type of setup will ALWAYS fail, especially at a place that requires togetherness to succeed. I doubt that is true. After all Coates and Smith are not only close friends but brothers-in-law. They are the board.
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Post by independent on Mar 28, 2024 16:46:50 GMT
Seems like a fair assessment with a few things that I would disagree with. Our 6 years in the Championship should be considered this way: 1 and 2. Money wasted by Rowett and Jones 3,4,5. No money,trying to get back on our feet. 6. Back on our feet with money to spend again. This is the first season in years that we had money to spend/waste. The recruitment and results have been terrible,but nobody could say our signings have been Retirement Home ones. Loans, maybe, but not signings. Whether you like it or not the culture in the club comes from the manager, not from the owner. Similarly the results are the manager's responsibility. Whether the manager or a DOF is responsible for signings, makes no difference. What counts is his ability to judge a player and convince the player to sign for the club. We made a big mistake, getting rid of MON. In his 2 full seasons he got 60 and 62 points while he sorted out our players and finances and got the club ready to go forward. All that while getting a hip done.. Does anyone really think that we have progressed in our last two seasons? At the moment we are aiming to get 50 points and hoping it will be enough to keep us up. At the same time O Neill has beaten Denmark and Scotland and drawn with Romania in his last 3 games. This,with a young side that he had to put together from scratch. However the real question is where do we go from here. It seems obvious that we need to appoint a DOF who knows what he is doing, before changing the manager again. We need someone of substance, not another punt that we hope will work out. Luckily, we can actually afford to pay someone good, unlike most of the clubs that we are competing with. We just need to get on with it.
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JudgeMental
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Post by JudgeMental on Mar 28, 2024 16:47:43 GMT
I'm intrigued that the Training facilities (Clayton Wood) are managed by Bet365 staff. ?? I was intrigued as well but I assume it’s the facilities management, and nothing to do with the coaching, and that it’s for accountancy reasons. More than likely Malcolm - it's the implication that the Bet365 staff might not be in tune with the "footballing way of doing things" if coaching staff are waiting around for someone to open up in a morning that was interesting.
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Post by independent on Mar 28, 2024 17:00:06 GMT
I was intrigued as well but I assume it’s the facilities management, and nothing to do with the coaching, and that it’s for accountancy reasons. More than likely Malcolm - it's the implication that the Bet365 staff might not be in tune with the "footballing way of doing things" if coaching staff are waiting around for someone to open up in a morning that was interesting. If the coaching staff are waiting for someone to open up, then they must be thick. Anyway, surely it gives them even more time to organise their training session. There is certainly no evidence that it has improved their coaching, so another 5/10 minutes would be very unlikely to make any difference.
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Post by stokeyank on Mar 28, 2024 20:06:34 GMT
My whole take away was that there are two people both trying to run the club/business and they don't work together or like each other. Jon Coates and Richard Smith. One is trying to run a football club (altghough poorly) the other is just running a bussiness. Too many staff work for one or the other and look out for who they report to. So you end up with conflicting interests and lack of continutity at every part of the club. Thet type of setup will ALWAYS fail, especially at a place that requires togetherness to succeed. I doubt that is true. After all Coates and Smith are not only close friends but brothers-in-law. They are the board. May not be true that they don't like each other, but it sure seems like there is a disconnect about how the club is being run.
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Post by jokker on Mar 28, 2024 21:10:10 GMT
I doubt that is true. After all Coates and Smith are not only close friends but brothers-in-law. They are the board. May not be true that they don't like each other, but it sure seems like there is a disconnect about how the club is being run. It don't take a genius to reach that conclusion.
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Post by danceswithclams on Mar 28, 2024 21:11:39 GMT
I remain absolutely convinced that this club will not progress until the Coates no longer own it.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 28, 2024 21:47:33 GMT
I remain absolutely convinced that this club will not progress until the Coates no longer own it. "Stoke.. appear to have grown incapable of progress" was the line that chimed the most. We are incapable of progress.
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 28, 2024 22:08:16 GMT
Maybe they did, you don't know. The Coates's have never responded to these kind of points in detail ever as far as I can remember and that's going back years. "We're disappointed... We support the club... we're committed" is the best you can hope for. Fair enough, it's their prerogative and can do as they please. Facts can be seen on the pitch. I watched it on-line and the questions I would have asked weren't put - I don't know whether that was because nobody wanted to ask them, or whether the questions were filtered. I think when the new arrangements come in, it will be more difficult not to address those questions. I think it's wishful thinking expecting the owners answering the kind of questions posed from this article in any kind of detail. They will straight bat them away.
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Post by liathroid on Mar 28, 2024 22:33:00 GMT
from 40minutes in its when QPR went down , its sounds like us when we went down
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Post by Gods on Mar 28, 2024 23:01:56 GMT
I remain absolutely convinced that this club will not progress until the Coates no longer own it. I feel the exact opposite. Lose the Coates and we're Port Vale.
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Post by WorkingclassHero on Mar 28, 2024 23:15:54 GMT
Jon needs to get a director of football he believes in and let him run the club. Becoming mates with the manager etc is just wrong if true
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Post by rowbeartoe on Mar 29, 2024 0:26:49 GMT
I remain absolutely convinced that this club will not progress until the Coates no longer own it. I feel the exact opposite. Lose the Coates and we're Port Vale. I mean, we're not far off are we? They could still survive and if we go down, we're in the same league as them.
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