|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 22, 2024 21:52:39 GMT
To be fair is nothing to do with Man City etc If a corner shop is struggling then you don't expect Sainsbury to bail then out Hopefully something will be sorted but as in any scenario, the bigger boys will generate more money be it football or anything and you have to manage within your means. Prem clubs generating millions isn't the reason Torquay are in trouble and not their responsibility. I agree with the point that it’s not Man City’s responsibility. I disagree that it’s not partially their fault. Prem clubs hoover up as much young talent as their seemingly unlimited funds allow. Any young player that they may have missed that is doing well in their first season or two is swallowed up as well. Most of them aren’t there to ever be played. They just send them out on loan and rake in the loan fees. They also drive up the rate of inflation in transfer fees and wages, with smaller clubs forced to overspend or be left with no one. The way it's always been Better players will be attracted to bigger clubs
|
|
|
Post by stantheman on Feb 22, 2024 22:14:28 GMT
Remember a very long trip to Torquay when we lost 1-0. Steve Foley back pass from the half way line straight to their centre forward
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Feb 22, 2024 22:15:57 GMT
The corner shop struggles because of the sainsburys and tescos. Same as lower league teams, they struggle because people go to higher league teams because they offer more success. Sad really. The way things are and always have been , football or not You work within your means and can't expect someone else to take responsibility And we are all the poorer for it Money more important than community
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 22, 2024 22:19:35 GMT
The way things are and always have been , football or not You work within your means and can't expect someone else to take responsibility And we are all the poorer for it Money more important than community I doubt ulis a person on her who wouldn turn down 4 or 5 times their salary in any walk
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 22, 2024 22:22:48 GMT
Remember a very long trip to Torquay when we lost 1-0. Steve Foley back pass from the half way line straight to their centre forward Yep was at that Their captain , Wes ..never gave Biggins a kick. Junior Bent played for us on loan. I remember getting chips on the way back to the car and this desperately drunk Irish fella asked me how much chips were and asked for for the money for some. He followed us all the way back to the car , eventually gave him the money to go away.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Feb 22, 2024 22:32:44 GMT
I agree with the point that it’s not Man City’s responsibility. I disagree that it’s not partially their fault. Prem clubs hoover up as much young talent as their seemingly unlimited funds allow. Any young player that they may have missed that is doing well in their first season or two is swallowed up as well. Most of them aren’t there to ever be played. They just send them out on loan and rake in the loan fees. They also drive up the rate of inflation in transfer fees and wages, with smaller clubs forced to overspend or be left with no one. The way it's always been Better players will be attracted to bigger clubs The disparity across the divisions have grown in the last two decades. It’s something that does always happen but the gross difference between the PL now and any other team is far more dramatic than it’s ever been. It’s most of the reason why the FA cup is crap nowadays.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 22, 2024 22:48:43 GMT
The way it's always been Better players will be attracted to bigger clubs The disparity across the divisions have grown in the last two decades. It’s something that does always happen but the gross difference between the PL now and any other team is far more dramatic than it’s ever been. It’s most of the reason why the FA cup is crap nowadays. In every industry run on the basis of unfettered capitalism the result is the same - the successful companies/clubs hoover up more and more of the money making potential in the market place and drive the small fry out of business. It's how it works. The only way of ensuring that the British football pyramid survives is for a regulator to intervene and force the wealthy clubs to give some of the wealth they have hoovered up to the less well off clubs. And that is exactly what the new regulator is there to do. The idea that football will be fine if left to the free market is utter bollocks. It will result in a small number of uber rich clubs and smaller clubs going out of business in their droves. You either leave football to the free market and have fewer clubs or you intervene in the market to maintain a broad and deep football pyramid. You cannot maintain the current pyramid by giving free rein to market forces because that isn't how market forces work.
|
|
|
Post by kaney78 on Feb 22, 2024 23:15:34 GMT
My Second Club are Torquay United due to family links down in Torbay. Always enjoy trips to Plainmoor as a break from Stoke when fixtures/commitments allow. Very sad to see this, albeit they've been on the decline for some years now so guess it wasn't a major suprise, especially as TUFC are still operating as a full time professional club! A lot of friction between the fans, owner & manager at the moment especially as Torquays recent form is shocking and Gary Johnson who is at the helm has refused to leave & the club is slowly sinking without any proper leadership. Not sure where things will lead now this news has broken but can't see any improvements occurring any time soon! Very Sad. Id be very worried as a Torquay supporter.The owner has proper pulled the rug from under the clubs feet with the manager following quickly.To be fair it's what the supporters wanted but not like this I don't think.I hope they find someone to take over sooner rather than later.I live in Torquay myself and although a stoke supporter do go watch them occasionally
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 22, 2024 23:19:45 GMT
The way it's always been Better players will be attracted to bigger clubs The disparity across the divisions have grown in the last two decades. It’s something that does always happen but the gross difference between the PL now and any other team is far more dramatic than it’s ever been. It’s most of the reason why the FA cup is crap nowadays. Of course- more money is the attraction but not the reason that Torquay have messed their finances up Back in the 80s we had bigger clubs in similar situations, Boro and Hull were in a serious mess when far less money in football I doubt was a time when a young player would choose Torquay over a top club if given the choice
|
|
|
Post by independent on Feb 22, 2024 23:27:50 GMT
Surely there’s enough money at the top end for a club like Man City or whatever to dig them out. I don’t really understand how these clubs get into this state and why some contingency can’t filter down to save these clubs. Naive probably To be fair is nothing to do with Man City etc If a corner shop is struggling then you don't expect Sainsbury to bail then out Hopefully something will be sorted but as in any scenario, the bigger boys will generate more money be it football or anything and you have to manage within your means. Prem clubs generating millions isn't the reason Torquay are in trouble and not their responsibility. Says a guy whose club would be in administration only for the Coates paying off our debts. There wasn't much talk of living within our means when MON was trying to slash our wage bill and offload players. Since we came down, all I've heard is "why aren't we back up yet" and "get the manager out". The funny thing is that only 2 Prem. clubs made a profit last year. NOBODY is living within their means. Championship clubs owe £1,700m. The Premier League are meeting next week to decide how much TV money they have to give, to prevent the EFL from collapsing. The hope is that they will give £900m. Would anyone like to bet that the Championship clubs will vote to give a bigger share of that money to League 2 next year.
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 22, 2024 23:39:32 GMT
To be fair is nothing to do with Man City etc If a corner shop is struggling then you don't expect Sainsbury to bail then out Hopefully something will be sorted but as in any scenario, the bigger boys will generate more money be it football or anything and you have to manage within your means. Prem clubs generating millions isn't the reason Torquay are in trouble and not their responsibility. Says a guy whose club would be in administration only for the Coates paying off our debts. There wasn't much talk of living within our means when MON was trying to slash our wage bill and offload players. Since we came down, all I've heard is "why aren't we back up yet" and "get the manager out". The funny thing is that only 2 Prem. clubs made a profit last year. NOBODY is living within their means. Championship clubs owe £1,700m. The Premier League are meeting next week to decide how much TV money they have to give, to prevent the EFL from collapsing. The hope is that they will give £900m. Would anyone like to bet that the Championship clubs will vote to give a bigger share of that money to League 2 next year. Says a club who live within the means available you mean. Torquay's owners haven't if you do some homework. Completely different scenario to Stoke ..
|
|
|
Post by independent on Feb 22, 2024 23:59:13 GMT
Says a guy whose club would be in administration only for the Coates paying off our debts. There wasn't much talk of living within our means when MON was trying to slash our wage bill and offload players. Since we came down, all I've heard is "why aren't we back up yet" and "get the manager out". The funny thing is that only 2 Prem. clubs made a profit last year. NOBODY is living within their means. Championship clubs owe £1,700m. The Premier League are meeting next week to decide how much TV money they have to give, to prevent the EFL from collapsing. The hope is that they will give £900m. Would anyone like to bet that the Championship clubs will vote to give a bigger share of that money to League 2 next year. Says a club who live within the means available you mean. Torquay's owners haven't if you do some homework. Completely different scenario to Stoke .. That is not living within your means. Stoke City do not own Bet365 or the Coates personal wealth. And their money could never be considered as being countable as Club income. Derby were depending on their owner ponying up to pay for their overspending and everything was ok. until he stopped paying. The same could easily happen to us. What you are really saying is that we are beggers not self sufficient and living within our means. As Kaney78 said: Id be very worried as a Torquay supporter.The owner has proper pulled the rug from under the clubs feet with the manager following quickly.To be fair it's what the supporters wanted but not like this I don't think.
|
|
|
Post by callas12 on Feb 23, 2024 0:51:52 GMT
|
|
|
Post by BristolMick on Feb 23, 2024 0:56:42 GMT
The disparity across the divisions have grown in the last two decades. It’s something that does always happen but the gross difference between the PL now and any other team is far more dramatic than it’s ever been. It’s most of the reason why the FA cup is crap nowadays. In every industry run on the basis of unfettered capitalism the result is the same - the successful companies/clubs hoover up more and more of the money making potential in the market place and drive the small fry out of business. It's how it works. The only way of ensuring that the British football pyramid survives is for a regulator to intervene and force the wealthy clubs to give some of the wealth they have hoovered up to the less well off clubs. And that is exactly what the new regulator is there to do. The idea that football will be fine if left to the free market is utter bollocks. It will result in a small number of uber rich clubs and smaller clubs going out of business in their droves. You either leave football to the free market and have fewer clubs or you intervene in the market to maintain a broad and deep football pyramid. You cannot maintain the current pyramid by giving free rein to market forces because that isn't how market forces work. Absolutely spot on. Nails it. Which side are we as Stoke fans on? The Torquay’s or the Manchester’s? BM
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 23, 2024 1:00:21 GMT
In every industry run on the basis of unfettered capitalism the result is the same - the successful companies/clubs hoover up more and more of the money making potential in the market place and drive the small fry out of business. It's how it works. The only way of ensuring that the British football pyramid survives is for a regulator to intervene and force the wealthy clubs to give some of the wealth they have hoovered up to the less well off clubs. And that is exactly what the new regulator is there to do. The idea that football will be fine if left to the free market is utter bollocks. It will result in a small number of uber rich clubs and smaller clubs going out of business in their droves. You either leave football to the free market and have fewer clubs or you intervene in the market to maintain a broad and deep football pyramid. You cannot maintain the current pyramid by giving free rein to market forces because that isn't how market forces work. Absolutely spot on. Nails it. Which side are we as Stoke fans on? The Torquay’s or the Manchester’s? BM Why do they need to take sides? Some clubs are envious of our situation as we've seen There'll always be wealthier clubs , the way it's always been Torquay's situation is their owner's doing . Stoke and Man City don't come into it
|
|
|
Post by BristolMick on Feb 23, 2024 1:09:36 GMT
Absolutely spot on. Nails it. Which side are we as Stoke fans on? The Torquay’s or the Manchester’s? BM Why do they need to take sides? Some clubs are envious of our situation as we've seen There'll always be wealthier clubs , the way it's always been Torquay's situation is their owner's doing . Stoke and Man City don't come into it I am talking about the fans, the emotional shareholders of their clubs, not the actual shareholders. We as fans whether we support Torquay United, Manchester United or Stoke City are all victims of our owners. We are supported by our owners because they are super rich, Torquay United’s owner is not and so they will go to the wall for lack of finance dripping down from the elite but we won’t (for now). I would have hoped we’d have some empathy with their situation because we are a whole lot closer to them in terms of living beyond our means and relying on our owners than the likes of Manchester or Liverpool are. BM
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Feb 23, 2024 8:22:10 GMT
Absolutely spot on. Nails it. Which side are we as Stoke fans on? The Torquay’s or the Manchester’s? BM Why do they need to take sides? Some clubs are envious of our situation as we've seen There'll always be wealthier clubs , the way it's always been Torquay's situation is their owner's doing . Stoke and Man City don't come into it It's not Torquay who have screwed themselves, it is some unscrupulous guy who has been allowed to screw their finances. It depends what you mean when you say 'Torquay'. A football club is more than its owners, but football clubs are at the mercy of self-interested individuals who can come in and basically destroy them. That's why regulation should exist to protect a club which is more than a mere business, but a community and has evolved its own culture and tradition. We are also part of that eco-system (or in my opinion should feel like we are).
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 23, 2024 8:23:37 GMT
Absolutely spot on. Nails it. Which side are we as Stoke fans on? The Torquay’s or the Manchester’s? BM Why do they need to take sides? Some clubs are envious of our situation as we've seen There'll always be wealthier clubs , the way it's always been Torquay's situation is their owner's doing . Stoke and Man City don't come into it Because Stoke are one of the relatively rich clubs and will either not receive any of the money being redistributed by the new regulator or be asked to be a net contributor. We have no choice but to take sides - we either fight the new regulator, keep the money to ourselves (which is exactly what the likes of Man City will be doing) and see more and more clubs go under or we support the new regulator and help the football pyramid survive. It's a choice we have to make and I'm on BMs side on this one. An unfettered free market forces smaller, less successful companies out of business and creates a small cartel of mega companies sharing all the available money in that market sector. The rationale for allowing this is that it benefits the consumer as the mega companies are more efficient at producing the goods for that market sector. That rationale doesn't work for football because the "product" is the loyalty and pleasure that comes from supporting your local club. It isn't anything like toothpaste - if your favourite toothpaste company goes out of business moving to Colgate is hardly a big deal. Nobody is going to console a Torquay United fan by telling them not to get upset because they can always support Man City.
|
|
|
Post by noustie on Feb 23, 2024 8:46:00 GMT
I used to play as Torquay on Champo as was my aunty’s second team - for some reason remember beating Wigan midweek purely because the attendance was 97.
They’re one of the episodes on Losers which is worth a watch.
|
|
|
Post by Silkystoke on Feb 23, 2024 10:07:30 GMT
My Second Club are Torquay United due to family links down in Torbay. Always enjoy trips to Plainmoor as a break from Stoke when fixtures/commitments allow. Very sad to see this, albeit they've been on the decline for some years now so guess it wasn't a major suprise, especially as TUFC are still operating as a full time professional club! A lot of friction between the fans, owner & manager at the moment especially as Torquays recent form is shocking and Gary Johnson who is at the helm has refused to leave & the club is slowly sinking without any proper leadership. Not sure where things will lead now this news has broken but can't see any improvements occurring any time soon! Very Sad. Id be very worried as a Torquay supporter.The owner has proper pulled the rug from under the clubs feet with the manager following quickly.To be fair it's what the supporters wanted but not like this I don't think.I hope they find someone to take over sooner rather than later.I live in Torquay myself and although a stoke supporter do go watch them occasionally Did you know there are 3/4 Stoke supporters in Torquay..??? Hopefully I’ll be coming there myself soon.. Torquay have been my 2 club for 40 years and I followed them all over the place in the late 80s early 90s .. Good luck Torquay
|
|
|
Post by Silkystoke on Feb 23, 2024 10:09:01 GMT
Remember a very long trip to Torquay when we lost 1-0. Steve Foley back pass from the half way line straight to their centre forward Still haunts me..!!! Was there, I lived there, seeing all my mates giving me the “wanker gesture “ absolutely kills me ..!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Los Alfareros on Feb 23, 2024 11:27:35 GMT
Remember a very long trip to Torquay when we lost 1-0. Steve Foley back pass from the half way line straight to their centre forward Still haunts me..!!! Was there, I lived there, seeing all my mates giving me the “wanker gesture “ absolutely kills me ..!!!!!! I can't remember the game or result (standard in those days!!), but I am sure it was a sunny day and we packed out a pub called the Waterfront? Did I dream that or did it happen??
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 23, 2024 11:57:56 GMT
Remember a very long trip to Torquay when we lost 1-0. Steve Foley back pass from the half way line straight to their centre forward My abiding memory of that game was the corner flag being almost as tall as Junior Bent who was playing for us that day 😂😂
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Feb 23, 2024 12:07:17 GMT
Remember a very long trip to Torquay when we lost 1-0. Steve Foley back pass from the half way line straight to their centre forward My abiding memory of that game was the corner flag being almost as tall as Junior Bent who was playing for us that day 😂😂 I've no memory of the goal just Junior bent being super fast & otherwise not super
|
|
|
Post by Royal Donut on Feb 23, 2024 12:09:39 GMT
FFP at its best, this will happen more and more can’t let the top of the pyramid fall, carries out like this be only 6teams left.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Feb 23, 2024 12:28:11 GMT
FFP at its best, this will happen more and more can’t let the top of the pyramid fall, carries out like this be only 6teams left. Isn't that the idea? As long as there are a few feeder clubs for them to thrash every week, I don't think they will mind.
|
|
|
Post by Silkystoke on Feb 23, 2024 12:42:23 GMT
Still haunts me..!!! Was there, I lived there, seeing all my mates giving me the “wanker gesture “ absolutely kills me ..!!!!!! I can't remember the game or result (standard in those days!!), but I am sure it was a sunny day and we packed out a pub called the Waterfront? Did I dream that or did it happen?? I was in the bar next to the ground called Boots & Laces, it’s still there and a great bar..!!!! The away end was the width of the pitch and 4 steps high… great little ground… holds 6,800
|
|
|
Post by Los Alfareros on Feb 23, 2024 12:55:58 GMT
I can't remember the game or result (standard in those days!!), but I am sure it was a sunny day and we packed out a pub called the Waterfront? Did I dream that or did it happen?? I was in the bar next to the ground called Boots & Laces, it’s still there and a great bar..!!!! The away end was the width of the pitch and 4 steps high… great little ground… holds 6,800 Again, it is all fuzzy, but I am sure I was in the seats which were above Torquay fans in a paddock? And the next bizarre memory was that Lee Sandfords missus was a few rows behind me!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 23, 2024 13:46:26 GMT
Why do they need to take sides? Some clubs are envious of our situation as we've seen There'll always be wealthier clubs , the way it's always been Torquay's situation is their owner's doing . Stoke and Man City don't come into it Because Stoke are one of the relatively rich clubs and will either not receive any of the money being redistributed by the new regulator or be asked to be a net contributor. We have no choice but to take sides - we either fight the new regulator, keep the money to ourselves (which is exactly what the likes of Man City will be doing) and see more and more clubs go under or we support the new regulator and help the football pyramid survive. It's a choice we have to make and I'm on BMs side on this one. An unfettered free market forces smaller, less successful companies out of business and creates a small cartel of mega companies sharing all the available money in that market sector. The rationale for allowing this is that it benefits the consumer as the mega companies are more efficient at producing the goods for that market sector. That rationale doesn't work for football because the "product" is the loyalty and pleasure that comes from supporting your local club. It isn't anything like toothpaste - if your favourite toothpaste company goes out of business moving to Colgate is hardly a big deal. Nobody is going to console a Torquay United fan by telling them not to get upset because they can always support Man City. You have every choice and to expect another club to bail them out is nonsense Am sure every football fan will sympathise with them and hope all turns out for the best but their predicament down to their owner and complete mis management of the club.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Feb 23, 2024 13:49:48 GMT
Rodney Jack was a great player for them back in the day.
|
|