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Post by skip on Mar 20, 2024 22:19:47 GMT
Where did this MoN stuff come from, just off here? Mine is pure speculation based on the possibility of people that know the club and their requisite strengths. I haven't a clue what Coates Jr. will do next, but I'd rather a MoN/SJW pairing with clear job descriptions and roles and responsibilities than some other DoF who thinks we are a meal ticket to a higher profile role, or to revive their own career having been sacked off some place else. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 20, 2024 22:24:39 GMT
Where did this MoN stuff come from, just off here? Mine is pure speculation based on the possibility of people that know the club and their requisite strengths. I haven't a clue what Coates Jr. will do next, but I'd rather a MoN/SJW pairing with clear job descriptions and roles and responsibilities than some other DoF who thinks we are a meal ticket to a higher profile role, or to revive their own career having been sacked off some place else. Right, thanks. I think I saw somewhere earlier that someone had heard about a help to go with SJW/SS and wondered if that was referring to MoN? Probably not then. |
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Post by J-Roar on Mar 21, 2024 11:27:56 GMT
Knowing the club shouldn't even be on the list of requirements.
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Post by jokker on Mar 21, 2024 11:34:15 GMT
Where did this MoN stuff come from, just off here? To some degree it started while he was still manager here. He was in discussion with JC about the future of the club. What was said we'll never know, but in pointing out that the club needed a Chelsea-style of DOF or more than one, MON might have mentioned that he had the desired qualifications and that he would be interested in moving upstairs, once his job as manager was done. On the other hand events later suggest that they did not have this conversation, because if MON were to have moved upstairs, then there was no point in JC sacking him. MON's name has since come up for two reasons: he was seen in the stands just a few spaces away from the board members at a recent game, and some decided that 3 and 4 must make 2, MON had to be there because he was being sounded out for the position (the possibilty that MON was there to scout on international players in his capacity as NI manager was not considered)... the other reason is that the Oatcake shadow board went looking for a TRM replacement on the grounds that SJW had only been named as interim replacement. Unsuccessful in their endavours, much like the real board, the shadow board then recalled that MON had the right qualifications and was not in employment as a club manager, so naturally the shadow board then decided that MON was our man for the tuture, and that SCFC was MON's rightful port of call after all. And from there the story, the non-real story, just grows and grows...I'm surprised we don't have a new MON thread already  |
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Post by Gods on Mar 21, 2024 11:41:50 GMT
I think I'd prefer MON to this Webber bloke who sounds certifiably mad to me.
And we've only just got rid of one lunatic in this role, we don't need another!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2024 11:51:39 GMT
MON would be my top choice too, although I wouldn't be averse to Webber. MON would bring a certain amount of calmness to the top of the club, and is a very likeable gentleman.
Almost like a young Rudgey.
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Post by lordb on Mar 21, 2024 12:16:05 GMT
Where did this MoN stuff come from, just off here? To some degree it started while he was still manager here. He was in discussion with JC about the future of the club. What was said we'll never know, but in pointing out that the club needed a Chelsea-style of DOF or more than one, MON might have mentioned that he had the desired qualifications and that he would be interested in moving upstairs, once his job as manager was done. On the other hand events later suggest that they did not have this conversation, because if MON were to have moved upstairs, then there was no point in JC sacking him. MON's name has since come up for two reasons: he was seen in the stands just a few spaces away from the board members at a recent game, and some decided that 3 and 4 must make 2, MON had to be there because he was being sounded out for the position (the possibilty that MON was there to scout on international players in his capacity as NI manager was not considered)... the other reason is that the Oatcake shadow board went looking for a TRM replacement on the grounds that SJW had only been named as interim replacement. Unsuccessful in their endavours, much like the real board, the shadow board then recalled that MON had the right qualifications and was not in employment as a club manager, so naturally the shadow board then decided that MON was our man for the tuture, and that SCFC was MON's rightful port of call after all. And from there the story, the non-real story, just grows and grows...I'm surprised we don't have a new MON thread already Sentinel chucked his name in too |
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Post by danceswithclams on Mar 21, 2024 12:23:37 GMT
Where did this MoN stuff come from, just off here? To some degree it started while he was still manager here. He was in discussion with JC about the future of the club. What was said we'll never know, but in pointing out that the club needed a Chelsea-style of DOF or more than one, MON might have mentioned that he had the desired qualifications and that he would be interested in moving upstairs, once his job as manager was done. On the other hand events later suggest that they did not have this conversation, because if MON were to have moved upstairs, then there was no point in JC sacking him. MON's name has since come up for two reasons: he was seen in the stands just a few spaces away from the board members at a recent game, and some decided that 3 and 4 must make 2, MON had to be there because he was being sounded out for the position (the possibilty that MON was there to scout on international players in his capacity as NI manager was not considered)... the other reason is that the Oatcake shadow board went looking for a TRM replacement on the grounds that SJW had only been named as interim replacement. Unsuccessful in their endavours, much like the real board, the shadow board then recalled that MON had the right qualifications and was not in employment as a club manager, so naturally the shadow board then decided that MON was our man for the tuture, and that SCFC was MON's rightful port of call after all. And from there the story, the non-real story, just grows and grows...I'm surprised we don't have a new MON thread already You forgot the third reason: 3. A lot of Stoke fans have a bizarre fixation on appointing former players/managers to available roles the club may have (to the point where it often defies logic and borders on the deranged). |
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Post by jokker on Mar 21, 2024 13:22:06 GMT
To some degree it started while he was still manager here. He was in discussion with JC about the future of the club. What was said we'll never know, but in pointing out that the club needed a Chelsea-style of DOF or more than one, MON might have mentioned that he had the desired qualifications and that he would be interested in moving upstairs, once his job as manager was done. On the other hand events later suggest that they did not have this conversation, because if MON were to have moved upstairs, then there was no point in JC sacking him. MON's name has since come up for two reasons: he was seen in the stands just a few spaces away from the board members at a recent game, and some decided that 3 and 4 must make 2, MON had to be there because he was being sounded out for the position (the possibilty that MON was there to scout on international players in his capacity as NI manager was not considered)... the other reason is that the Oatcake shadow board went looking for a TRM replacement on the grounds that SJW had only been named as interim replacement. Unsuccessful in their endavours, much like the real board, the shadow board then recalled that MON had the right qualifications and was not in employment as a club manager, so naturally the shadow board then decided that MON was our man for the tuture, and that SCFC was MON's rightful port of call after all. And from there the story, the non-real story, just grows and grows...I'm surprised we don't have a new MON thread already You forgot the third reason: 3. A lot of Stoke fans have a bizarre fixation on appointing former players/managers to available roles the club may have (to the point where it often defies logic and borders on the deranged). If that's true, will we resign Nathan Jones with Rowett as DOF before the year is over...? |
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Post by J-Roar on Mar 21, 2024 13:29:35 GMT
To some degree it started while he was still manager here. He was in discussion with JC about the future of the club. What was said we'll never know, but in pointing out that the club needed a Chelsea-style of DOF or more than one, MON might have mentioned that he had the desired qualifications and that he would be interested in moving upstairs, once his job as manager was done. On the other hand events later suggest that they did not have this conversation, because if MON were to have moved upstairs, then there was no point in JC sacking him. MON's name has since come up for two reasons: he was seen in the stands just a few spaces away from the board members at a recent game, and some decided that 3 and 4 must make 2, MON had to be there because he was being sounded out for the position (the possibilty that MON was there to scout on international players in his capacity as NI manager was not considered)... the other reason is that the Oatcake shadow board went looking for a TRM replacement on the grounds that SJW had only been named as interim replacement. Unsuccessful in their endavours, much like the real board, the shadow board then recalled that MON had the right qualifications and was not in employment as a club manager, so naturally the shadow board then decided that MON was our man for the tuture, and that SCFC was MON's rightful port of call after all. And from there the story, the non-real story, just grows and grows...I'm surprised we don't have a new MON thread already You forgot the third reason: 3. A lot of Stoke fans have a bizarre fixation on appointing former players/managers to available roles the club may have (to the point where it often defies logic and borders on the deranged). They know the club. |
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 21, 2024 15:17:12 GMT
To some degree it started while he was still manager here. He was in discussion with JC about the future of the club. What was said we'll never know, but in pointing out that the club needed a Chelsea-style of DOF or more than one, MON might have mentioned that he had the desired qualifications and that he would be interested in moving upstairs, once his job as manager was done. On the other hand events later suggest that they did not have this conversation, because if MON were to have moved upstairs, then there was no point in JC sacking him. MON's name has since come up for two reasons: he was seen in the stands just a few spaces away from the board members at a recent game, and some decided that 3 and 4 must make 2, MON had to be there because he was being sounded out for the position (the possibilty that MON was there to scout on international players in his capacity as NI manager was not considered)... the other reason is that the Oatcake shadow board went looking for a TRM replacement on the grounds that SJW had only been named as interim replacement. Unsuccessful in their endavours, much like the real board, the shadow board then recalled that MON had the right qualifications and was not in employment as a club manager, so naturally the shadow board then decided that MON was our man for the tuture, and that SCFC was MON's rightful port of call after all. And from there the story, the non-real story, just grows and grows...I'm surprised we don't have a new MON thread already Sentinel chucked his name in too As did Angela Smith |
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Post by shakermaker on Mar 21, 2024 16:15:22 GMT
He might, but his only DOF or type role was at Fleetwood briefly, I think people fail to appreciate what a big and specialist role the job is. Would think the list of proven-in-the-role Championship-level candidates who are either out-of-work or willing to jump ship from their current club to Stoke is quite slim though. And Walters is obviously popular, and at least a positive, non-antagonistic force around the place - and he's in there ingratiating himself with the decision-makers every day, making the call to go elsewhere ever more difficult. He's also liked by the fans, and seems quite smart and charismatic, and will have some contacts. If it's a choice between him and someone with a very mixed track record and a history of foot-in-mouth moments (Webber), can see there only being one winner. If you're judging the role entirely in recruitment, which is probably unfair, It's hard to be consistently effective from club to club. You're never sure exactly how one short run of success in one set-up, with one manager working with your recruits, will translate. I remember the Leicester recruitment chief being the flavour of the month - then he jumped ship to Everton, where his signings were a complete disaster in that environment. They all use the same software and scouting tools as a starting point. It depends what we want the role to be. You can pretty much make the role as meaningful as you want. Hull and Coventry haven't even got anyone in an equivalent position Ricky Martin didn't seem to have much ultimate power in terms of being the decider in terms of recruitment, whereas Webber was massively powerful at Norwich, as was the Liverpool chief. Chelsea have assembled about 3 or 4 of them in their recruitment stable, and the jury is very much out on what they've come up with. As far as we can tell, Martin was just a voice in the process (it's unclear how big), who negotiated with players that either Neil (who had a veto) wanted or Jared Dublin's software flagged. His major problem seemed to be that he was deeply unpopular around the place trainingground.guru/articles/scott-appointed-as-rotherhams-first-director-of-footballCHAMPIONSHIP CLUBS WITH SPORTING DIRECTOR (OR EQUIVALENT) Birmingham City: Craig Gardner (Technical Director) Blackburn Rovers: Gregg Broughton (Director of Football) Bristol City: Brian Tinnion (Technical Director) Cardiff City: - Coventry City: - Huddersfield Town: Mark Cartwright (Sporting Director) Hull City: - Ipswich Town: Gary Probert (Director of Football Operations) Leeds United: Gretar Steinsson (Technical Director) Leicester City: Jon Rudkin (Director of Football) Middlesbrough: Kieran Scott (Head of Football) Millwall: Alex Aldridge (Director of Football Operations) Norwich City: Ben Knapper (Sporting Director) Plymouth Argyle: Neil Dewsnip (Director of Football) Preston North End: - QPR: - Rotherham United: Rob Scott (Director of Football) Sheffield Wednesday: - Southampton: Jason Wilcox (Director of Football) Stoke City: Ricky Martin (Technical Director) Sunderland: Kristjaan Speakman (Sporting Director) Swansea City: Paul Watson (Sporting Director) Watford: Gianluca Nani (Sporting Director) West Brom: - On the subject of Steve Walsh (ex Leicester recruitment), when he was with Leicester he was their Chief Scout. At Everton, he was made their Director of Football, which is a massive jump in responsibility. Some people are best in roles suited to their maximum capabilities, and it looks like he was one of them. Similarly for us, Jared Dublin was Chief Scout at Sheffield United and he went from that to Head of Recruitment for us. That again was probably too big a jump for him. Walsh is only 59 years-old still, currently working in the US for Charlotte FC. We could do worse than bringing him in as Head of Recruitment (as opposed to DoF, which should be a separate role), if Jared was happy to be demoted to Chief Scout where he can focus more on crunching the data. |
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Post by bertiestan on Mar 21, 2024 18:07:34 GMT
Would think the list of proven-in-the-role Championship-level candidates who are either out-of-work or willing to jump ship from their current club to Stoke is quite slim though. And Walters is obviously popular, and at least a positive, non-antagonistic force around the place - and he's in there ingratiating himself with the decision-makers every day, making the call to go elsewhere ever more difficult. He's also liked by the fans, and seems quite smart and charismatic, and will have some contacts. If it's a choice between him and someone with a very mixed track record and a history of foot-in-mouth moments (Webber), can see there only being one winner. If you're judging the role entirely in recruitment, which is probably unfair, It's hard to be consistently effective from club to club. You're never sure exactly how one short run of success in one set-up, with one manager working with your recruits, will translate. I remember the Leicester recruitment chief being the flavour of the month - then he jumped ship to Everton, where his signings were a complete disaster in that environment. They all use the same software and scouting tools as a starting point. It depends what we want the role to be. You can pretty much make the role as meaningful as you want. Hull and Coventry haven't even got anyone in an equivalent position Ricky Martin didn't seem to have much ultimate power in terms of being the decider in terms of recruitment, whereas Webber was massively powerful at Norwich, as was the Liverpool chief. Chelsea have assembled about 3 or 4 of them in their recruitment stable, and the jury is very much out on what they've come up with. As far as we can tell, Martin was just a voice in the process (it's unclear how big), who negotiated with players that either Neil (who had a veto) wanted or Jared Dublin's software flagged. His major problem seemed to be that he was deeply unpopular around the place trainingground.guru/articles/scott-appointed-as-rotherhams-first-director-of-footballCHAMPIONSHIP CLUBS WITH SPORTING DIRECTOR (OR EQUIVALENT) Birmingham City: Craig Gardner (Technical Director) Blackburn Rovers: Gregg Broughton (Director of Football) Bristol City: Brian Tinnion (Technical Director) Cardiff City: - Coventry City: - Huddersfield Town: Mark Cartwright (Sporting Director) Hull City: - Ipswich Town: Gary Probert (Director of Football Operations) Leeds United: Gretar Steinsson (Technical Director) Leicester City: Jon Rudkin (Director of Football) Middlesbrough: Kieran Scott (Head of Football) Millwall: Alex Aldridge (Director of Football Operations) Norwich City: Ben Knapper (Sporting Director) Plymouth Argyle: Neil Dewsnip (Director of Football) Preston North End: - QPR: - Rotherham United: Rob Scott (Director of Football) Sheffield Wednesday: - Southampton: Jason Wilcox (Director of Football) Stoke City: Ricky Martin (Technical Director) Sunderland: Kristjaan Speakman (Sporting Director) Swansea City: Paul Watson (Sporting Director) Watford: Gianluca Nani (Sporting Director) West Brom: - On the subject of Steve Walsh (ex Leicester recruitment), when he was with Leicester he was their Chief Scout. At Everton, he was made their Director of Football, which is a massive jump in responsibility. Some people are best in roles suited to their maximum capabilities, and it looks like he was one of them. Similarly for us, Jared Dublin was Chief Scout at Sheffield United and he went from that to Head of Recruitment for us. That again was probably too big a jump for him. Walsh is only 59 years-old still, currently working in the US for Charlotte FC. We could do worse than bringing him in as Head of Recruitment (as opposed to DoF, which should be a separate role), if Jared was happy to be demoted to Chief Scout where he can focus more on crunching the data. Couldn’t stand him as a player for Leicester…snidey prick🔴⚪️ |
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 21, 2024 18:11:13 GMT
On the subject of Steve Walsh (ex Leicester recruitment), when he was with Leicester he was their Chief Scout. At Everton, he was made their Director of Football, which is a massive jump in responsibility. Some people are best in roles suited to their maximum capabilities, and it looks like he was one of them. Similarly for us, Jared Dublin was Chief Scout at Sheffield United and he went from that to Head of Recruitment for us. That again was probably too big a jump for him. Walsh is only 59 years-old still, currently working in the US for Charlotte FC. We could do worse than bringing him in as Head of Recruitment (as opposed to DoF, which should be a separate role), if Jared was happy to be demoted to Chief Scout where he can focus more on crunching the data. Couldn’t stand him as a player for Leicester…snidey prick🔴⚪️ Different Steve Walsh |
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Post by lordb on Mar 21, 2024 18:34:48 GMT
You forgot the third reason: 3. A lot of Stoke fans have a bizarre fixation on appointing former players/managers to available roles the club may have (to the point where it often defies logic and borders on the deranged). They know the club. Got to be honest *can't think of any examples of players and managers returning to Stoke City successfully *I'm not being honest |
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Post by lordb on Mar 21, 2024 18:37:00 GMT
Couldn’t stand him as a player for Leicester…snidey prick🔴⚪️ Different Steve Walsh To be fair the Steve Walsh he's thinking of was very much a snidy prick |
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 21, 2024 19:13:04 GMT
To be fair the Steve Walsh he's thinking of was very much a snidy prick Yep. He had an atrocious disciplinary record. Seem to recall he had a running feud with Steve Bull that went on for years. Was linked to Stoke as a youngster when he was emerging at Wigan. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2024 19:13:47 GMT
Do we think Jon will get his pom poms out over the international break?
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 21, 2024 19:18:20 GMT
Do we think Jon will get his pom poms out over the international break? We need some inspiration from somewhere. I can see us getting smashed at Hull if there isn’t a dramatic improvement from that shit we saw on Saturday. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2024 19:20:23 GMT
Do we think Jon will get his pom poms out over the international break? We need some inspiration from somewhere. I can see us getting smashed at Hull if there isn’t a dramatic improvement from that shit we saw on Saturday. 🤣 Cheerleader Walters to the rescue. |
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Post by logdog on Mar 21, 2024 19:48:59 GMT
All this MON talk is very presumptuous. Firstly we sacked the bloke last time round. Secondly, he has a perfectly good job with Northern Ireland. What makes people think we are any more of an exciting prospect than them at this moment in time? I’m not sure money is his motivation. Always seemed to be a man of principal to me.
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Post by bertiestan on Mar 21, 2024 19:51:58 GMT
Couldn’t stand him as a player for Leicester…snidey prick🔴⚪️ Different Steve Walsh Cheers bud🔴⚪️ |
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Post by bertiestan on Mar 21, 2024 20:02:13 GMT
All this MON talk is very presumptuous. Firstly we sacked the bloke last time round. Secondly, he has a perfectly good job with Northern Ireland. What makes people think we are any more of an exciting prospect than them at this moment in time? I’m not sure money is his motivation. Always seemed to be a man of principal to me. My sentiments exactly mate🔴⚪️ |
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Post by silsdenstokie on Mar 21, 2024 20:15:57 GMT
To be fair the Steve Walsh he's thinking of was very much a snidy prick Yep. He had an atrocious disciplinary record. Seem to recall he had a running feud with Steve Bull that went on for years. Was linked to Stoke as a youngster when he was emerging at Wigan. Think Leicester got him around the time we got Johnny Butler. Wigan had a good young team mid eighties many of who went on to better things ie Mike Newell, Warren Aspinall, David Lowe, Paul Jewell etc |
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 21, 2024 20:19:05 GMT
Yep. He had an atrocious disciplinary record. Seem to recall he had a running feud with Steve Bull that went on for years. Was linked to Stoke as a youngster when he was emerging at Wigan. Think Leicester got him around the time we got Johnny Butler. Wigan had a good young team mid eighties many of who went on to better things ie Mike Newell, Warren Aspinall, David Lowe, Paul Jewell etc Yes they had a very good side. From memory I think Walsh followed the manager (Brian Hamilton?) from Wigan to Leicester. |
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Post by logdog on Mar 21, 2024 20:24:55 GMT
Think Leicester got him around the time we got Johnny Butler. Wigan had a good young team mid eighties many of who went on to better things ie Mike Newell, Warren Aspinall, David Lowe, Paul Jewell etc Yes they had a very good side. From memory I think Walsh followed the manager (Brian Hamilton?) from Wigan to Leicester. They had a tubby lad called Kelly playing in the middle of the park for them too…😉 |
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 21, 2024 20:26:02 GMT
Yes they had a very good side. From memory I think Walsh followed the manager (Brian Hamilton?) from Wigan to Leicester. They had a tubby lad called Kelly playing in the middle of the park for them too…😉 Never heard of him… |
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Post by silsdenstokie on Mar 21, 2024 20:28:10 GMT
Yes they had a very good side. From memory I think Walsh followed the manager (Brian Hamilton?) from Wigan to Leicester. They had a tubby lad called Kelly playing in the middle of the park for them too…😉 Shit, how could I forget him! Did he have a fallout with Mills? Let him go far too soon imo |
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 21, 2024 22:33:29 GMT
I used to think that all of these sporting directors had to be spivvy user car salseman types with lots of soundbites and survivorship bias. However, when you look at it, plenty of clubs seem to settle on a former player of some stature either globally or at the club itself. Just look at the PL:
Arsenal - Edu (knows the club!)
Aston Villa - Monchi (manager bringing along the old TD from his former club!)
Bournemouth - Richard Hughes (knows the club!)
Brighton - David Weir
Palace - Dougie Freedman (knows the club!)
Man City - Txiki Bergiristain
West Ham - Mark Noble (knows the club!)
Most of the spivvy types headhunted at great expense are not actually doing a particularly good job: the likes of Vivell at Chelsea (gardening leave after seven months), Thelwell at Everton (120 point plan for success!), Khan at Fulham and Murtough at Man Utd. Most of the non-footballing types who end up doing the job in this league seem to end up despised by supporters, like Speakman at Sunderland and the guy at Swansea.
Walters doesn't exactly seem like an outlandish choice compared to some of the names in that list. He's well regarded in the game, he's got all of his qualifications, he's had some experience of the job at other clubs, he seems like an intelligent operator. It all depends on what exactly the role is, but his appointment wouldn't be Stoke misunderstanding the role and making an appointment totally out of step with the rest of the footballing world. In fact, you could easily argue
I think I'm finding myself very much in the Jon Walters camp and very much opposed to headhunting somebody from another club.
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Post by lordb on Mar 21, 2024 23:09:13 GMT
They had a tubby lad called Kelly playing in the middle of the park for them too…😉 Shit, how could I forget him! Did he have a fallout with Mills? Let him go far too soon imo Yes he did, Kelly headbutted Brian Talbot in the tunnel after 4.1 defeat at Shrewsbury Mills sided with Talbot Talbot later signed Kelly for Albion |
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