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Post by greenstones on Mar 15, 2024 20:21:33 GMT
Except he’s not a Southerner he’s Welsh and started off on the ground staff at Wrexham Whoops 😂😂 Still think most of those points apply though despite the lack of due diligence! Agree that he’d be a really risky divisive appointment. Certainly impressive early track record at Norwich, but unpopular by the end of his term, by which time he was believing his own publicity and over fond of a controversial soundbite…… perhaps he’s learnt from his mistakes, albeit narcissism is rarely curable and often terminal |
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Mar 15, 2024 20:41:08 GMT
Whoops 😂😂 Still think most of those points apply though despite the lack of due diligence! Agree that he’d be a really risky divisive appointment. Certainly impressive early track record at Norwich, but unpopular by the end of his term, by which time he was believing his own publicity and over fond of a controversial soundbite…… perhaps he’s learnt from his mistakes, albeit narcissism is rarely curable and often terminal That sounds accurate! Norwich forum has a thread about his Stoke link and despite a few cynical comments you can also tell that he generally did a decent job. One poster said that they'd be glad to have him and shuey together there, for example. Six years is a long time in a job like that so it's bound to have gone stale by the end |
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 15, 2024 20:43:27 GMT
It'd be interesting to know which other names are in the mix, besides Webber and Walters
If you stay in the job long enough, your reputation tends to suffer, just as with managers.
Suppose it's very rare to consistently keep on hitting home run after home run
Presumably the fans judge the role 99% based on what the recruitment department end up producing - just as the Vale fans are with Flitcroft, despite the brief being, theoretically, much wider in overseeing 7 or 8 departments and being an important PR man.
When you're in a fan-facing role, this ability Webber seems to have to almost purposely put his foot in his mouth seems deeply weird and would almost be a deal breaker. The last thing you need is a spiky bloke who keeps wanting to place himself at the centre of things. The role seems difficult enough without that.
At least with Walters, there's a reservoir of goodwill and he seems to be good with people. And just being a positive, non-antagonistic force around the club is important. If they're charismatic and popular, that's a bonus
If we end the season comfortably, can't help but feel it could well drop into his lap and it will be harder to give it to someone else, rather than just let him run with it - especially as we're unlikely to be able to attract anyone with an unblemished (or close to unblemished) record in the hit-and-miss field of recruitment where everyone is using the same data and scouting tools
Webber was the poster boy a few years ago, as was Walsh at Leicester - and they both went on to crash and burn.
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Post by gingerninja on Mar 15, 2024 20:54:34 GMT
Wasn't the guy at Coventry, who unearthed Gykores and Hamer also highly rated, not sure where he is now, or his name in fact.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 15, 2024 21:06:51 GMT
Wasn't the guy at Coventry, who unearthed Gykores and Hamer also highly rated, not sure where he is now, or his name in fact. Sacked by Blackpool after 4 months. Turned up at Aberdeen a couple of months ago. It seems very hit and miss from club to club, and hard to judge the input of the Technical Director/Director of Football in the process and say 'that bloke at Club X is a star technical director' because there are so many other cogs in the process. We don't even know what role Tricky played in weighing up the claims of Jared's software-led picks and Neil's manager picks. Was he just a facilitator and negotiatior? He certainly didn't seem to be the ultimate decider. His major downfall seems to have been the fact he was an unlikeable bloke who created a bad atmosphere The other one they always used to say was the recruitment star was Monchi at Seville, and just like Walsh and Webber, he crashed and burnt in his next role, and is now at Villa. Seems to be so many factors dictating whether any individual signing is a success or failure, which is basically all they end up being judged on apart from getting infrastructure projects done, which Webber seems to take some credit for. For that reason, can see them rolling with Walters if we glide to safety |
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Post by thisisouryear on Mar 15, 2024 21:40:52 GMT
Webber seems to have a bit of baggage regarding comments he has made, I'm not sure he would be the right fit here we need some stability and less drama. I would rather MON be the main man at the top and if we can't get him then stick with Walters.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Mar 15, 2024 21:52:11 GMT
It’s all a load of bollox innit really. Brighton this, Brentford that. You just just need to be good at what you’re doing.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 15, 2024 21:57:10 GMT
It’s all a load of bollox innit really. Brighton this, Brentford that. You just just need to be good at what you’re doing. Definitely. How many tiers of management does a club need nowadays to get some half decent players onto the pitch? |
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Post by skip on Mar 16, 2024 9:08:48 GMT
I'd rather we keep Walters than appoint another toxic bell end. John Coates played a blinder giving SJW an interim job and I seriously, seriously hope he doesn't underestimate what and who he has fighting our corner. |
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Post by sportsman on Mar 16, 2024 9:23:08 GMT
It’s all a load of bollox innit really. Brighton this, Brentford that. You just just need to be good at what you’re doing. Definitely. How many tiers of management does a club need nowadays to get some half decent players onto the pitch? Going off Man Utd’s new strategy about 4 levels |
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 16, 2024 9:31:39 GMT
Definitely. How many tiers of management does a club need nowadays to get some half decent players onto the pitch? Going off Man Utd’s new strategy about 4 levels It must be a more complicated process than I imagined it was then 🤷♂️ |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Mar 16, 2024 9:52:02 GMT
Going off Man Utd’s new strategy about 4 levels It must be a more complicated process than I imagined it was then 🤷♂️ Nice line Last night Man utd just paid ,£20m for Newcastles DoF and the players he signed fkr Newcastle can't win a game |
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Post by gingerninja on Mar 20, 2024 10:04:01 GMT
Are we getting any closer to getting this sorted, or do we think Walters is a shoe in to the position?.
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Post by frasier37 on Mar 20, 2024 10:46:51 GMT
Are we getting any closer to getting this sorted, or do we think Walters is a shoe in to the position?. Dunno but, think I'd be happy with Walters...he knows his onions, likable... Better the devil you know |
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Post by gingerninja on Mar 20, 2024 10:50:34 GMT
He might, but his only DOF or type role was at Fleetwood briefly, I think people fail to appreciate what a big and specialist role the job is.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 20, 2024 11:27:26 GMT
He might, but his only DOF or type role was at Fleetwood briefly, I think people fail to appreciate what a big and specialist role the job is. Would think the list of proven-in-the-role Championship-level candidates who are either out-of-work or willing to jump ship from their current club to Stoke is quite slim though. And Walters is obviously popular, and at least a positive, non-antagonistic force around the place - and he's in there ingratiating himself with the decision-makers every day, making the call to go elsewhere ever more difficult. He's also liked by the fans, and seems quite smart and charismatic, and will have some contacts. If it's a choice between him and someone with a very mixed track record and a history of foot-in-mouth moments (Webber), can see there only being one winner. If you're judging the role entirely in recruitment, which is probably unfair, It's hard to be consistently effective from club to club. You're never sure exactly how one short run of success in one set-up, with one manager working with your recruits, will translate. I remember the Leicester recruitment chief being the flavour of the month - then he jumped ship to Everton, where his signings were a complete disaster in that environment. They all use the same software and scouting tools as a starting point. It depends what we want the role to be. You can pretty much make the role as meaningful as you want. Hull and Coventry haven't even got anyone in an equivalent position Ricky Martin didn't seem to have much ultimate power in terms of being the decider in terms of recruitment, whereas Webber was massively powerful at Norwich, as was the Liverpool chief. Chelsea have assembled about 3 or 4 of them in their recruitment stable, and the jury is very much out on what they've come up with. As far as we can tell, Martin was just a voice in the process (it's unclear how big), who negotiated with players that either Neil (who had a veto) wanted or Jared Dublin's software flagged. His major problem seemed to be that he was deeply unpopular around the place trainingground.guru/articles/scott-appointed-as-rotherhams-first-director-of-footballCHAMPIONSHIP CLUBS WITH SPORTING DIRECTOR (OR EQUIVALENT) Birmingham City: Craig Gardner (Technical Director) Blackburn Rovers: Gregg Broughton (Director of Football) Bristol City: Brian Tinnion (Technical Director) Cardiff City: - Coventry City: - Huddersfield Town: Mark Cartwright (Sporting Director) Hull City: - Ipswich Town: Gary Probert (Director of Football Operations) Leeds United: Gretar Steinsson (Technical Director) Leicester City: Jon Rudkin (Director of Football) Middlesbrough: Kieran Scott (Head of Football) Millwall: Alex Aldridge (Director of Football Operations) Norwich City: Ben Knapper (Sporting Director) Plymouth Argyle: Neil Dewsnip (Director of Football) Preston North End: - QPR: - Rotherham United: Rob Scott (Director of Football) Sheffield Wednesday: - Southampton: Jason Wilcox (Director of Football) Stoke City: Ricky Martin (Technical Director) Sunderland: Kristjaan Speakman (Sporting Director) Swansea City: Paul Watson (Sporting Director) Watford: Gianluca Nani (Sporting Director) West Brom: - |
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Post by gingerninja on Mar 20, 2024 11:38:36 GMT
Fair points Fuller, thank you for the information as always, quick and detailed. I just think we are entering such an important phase as a club, with so many variables..we shall see, the next 2 months or so are going to be one hell of a ride.
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Post by skip on Mar 20, 2024 11:51:16 GMT
I would be surprised if there was a single uniform job description to this role. So, invite MoN back, keep SJW and co-design their roles.
John Coates needs to stop trying to emulate what he thinks makes other clubs successful, and build a boardroom accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2024 12:16:28 GMT
I would be surprised if there was a single uniform job description to this role. So, invite MoN back, keep SJW and co-design their roles. John Coates needs to stop trying to emulate what he thinks makes other clubs successful, and build a boardroom accordingly. I heard that something like that might happen. Have you heard something too? |
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Post by lordb on Mar 20, 2024 12:21:34 GMT
I would be surprised if there was a single uniform job description to this role. So, invite MoN back, keep SJW and co-design their roles. John Coates needs to stop trying to emulate what he thinks makes other clubs successful, and build a boardroom accordingly. I heard that something like that might happen. Have you heard something too? Interesting is there room for both? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2024 12:24:40 GMT
I heard that something like that might happen. Have you heard something too? Interesting is there room for both? It's a big role and I'm sure there is, there's no rule on how to do this. I think MON did a good job here overall and is a very intelligent and astute person. He has a good understanding of the club and is ideal in an upstairs role in my view. |
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Post by skip on Mar 20, 2024 15:55:33 GMT
I would be surprised if there was a single uniform job description to this role. So, invite MoN back, keep SJW and co-design their roles. John Coates needs to stop trying to emulate what he thinks makes other clubs successful, and build a boardroom accordingly. I heard that something like that might happen. Have you heard something too? Haven't heard a sausage, just wishful thinking on my part. |
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Post by skip on Mar 20, 2024 15:58:48 GMT
Interesting is there room for both? It's a big role and I'm sure there is, there's no rule on how to do this. I think MON did a good job here overall and is a very intelligent and astute person. He has a good understanding of the club and is ideal in an upstairs role in my view. There is a line of positive synergy between Schumacher, MoN and SJW, all bringing an enthusiasm and measured approach to recent eras where things went well, from Premier League experience, through MoN's problem solving (I'm convinced he did way more to help us than is generally acknowledged) and a bright young coach who just needs better people around and above him. The three of them could be the key, rather than poaching someone from another club (that nonsense has got to stop because it clearly doesn't work in itself) and hoping to emulate relative levels of productivity and success at Stoke. |
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Post by thornestein on Mar 20, 2024 16:11:00 GMT
It's a big role and I'm sure there is, there's no rule on how to do this. I think MON did a good job here overall and is a very intelligent and astute person. He has a good understanding of the club and is ideal in an upstairs role in my view. There is a line of positive synergy between Schumacher, MoN and SJW, all bringing an enthusiasm and measured approach to recent eras where things went well, from Premier League experience, through MoN's problem solving (I'm convinced he did way more to help us than is generally acknowledged) and a bright young coach who just needs better people around and above him. The three of them could be the key, rather than poaching someone from another club (that nonsense has got to stop because it clearly doesn't work in itself) and hoping to emulate relative levels of productivity and success at Stoke. ppl keep mentioning MoN , why would he leave NI again , and i’m sure i’ve read somewhere him saying it will be his last job |
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Post by jokker on Mar 20, 2024 17:36:59 GMT
There is a line of positive synergy between Schumacher, MoN and SJW, all bringing an enthusiasm and measured approach to recent eras where things went well, from Premier League experience, through MoN's problem solving (I'm convinced he did way more to help us than is generally acknowledged) and a bright young coach who just needs better people around and above him. The three of them could be the key, rather than poaching someone from another club (that nonsense has got to stop because it clearly doesn't work in itself) and hoping to emulate relative levels of productivity and success at Stoke. ppl keep mentioning MoN , why would he leave NI again , and i’m sure i’ve read somewhere him saying it will be his last job I agree about the first part, not about the second. He's still relatively young at 54, and apart from doing well as NI manager he hasn't really been fulfilled jobwise I would think. |
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Post by sportsman on Mar 20, 2024 18:25:22 GMT
I’d be more who is the best person for the job in world football? Work down that list until we get to the best person available who we can persuade to come
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Mar 20, 2024 19:53:56 GMT
Is the Jon Walters effect done now? Do we need Huth to come in and rally the troops😉
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 20, 2024 19:58:45 GMT
Never mind all this bollocks, when are they building a train station?
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Post by lordb on Mar 20, 2024 22:06:23 GMT
There is a line of positive synergy between Schumacher, MoN and SJW, all bringing an enthusiasm and measured approach to recent eras where things went well, from Premier League experience, through MoN's problem solving (I'm convinced he did way more to help us than is generally acknowledged) and a bright young coach who just needs better people around and above him. The three of them could be the key, rather than poaching someone from another club (that nonsense has got to stop because it clearly doesn't work in itself) and hoping to emulate relative levels of productivity and success at Stoke. ppl keep mentioning MoN , why would he leave NI again , and i’m sure i’ve read somewhere him saying it will be his last job He wouldn't necessarily need to leave NI job Especially if he'd be paired up with SJW, could still be NI head coach and be Stoke DoF He would have to pair down other work he does for NI football though |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 20, 2024 22:13:44 GMT
Where did this MoN stuff come from, just off here?
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