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Post by wakeypotter on Feb 23, 2024 14:37:01 GMT
This is my reading of the situation. I don't think SJW is here to do the dry, technical, long term strategy work you would normally expect of a Technical Director and in fact as an interim (which doesn't make any sense for that sort of role anyway) he can't. He's here to get rid of the toxic atmosphere and bring in a feel good factor. And it sounds like that's what is needed. Having said that I think Martin is fast becoming the ultimate scapegoat and being blamed for all the bad things that have happened at the club. His role in transfers in particular is being massively overstated. If the reports about the atmosphere he created are true he had to go but to think this solves all our problems is very naive. Exactly. It makes no sense in appointing an interim technical director, it's a position which only works with a long term view and and any decisions he makes would have to be ripped up again when the new person comes in. It's purely to appease the fans and to give SS some moral support and won't be responsible for any key decisions that a technical director would normally make. He'll be a technical director in name only and with all due respect to Jon he's not really qualified to do the job that's required here anyway. Why not? It give sjw some valuable experience in that roll of which he just may make a fist of it? |
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Post by baconburger on Feb 23, 2024 14:38:51 GMT
1 No-one can properly fulfil the role of Technical Director on an interim basis. They won't have the time to do anything significant and anything they do is likely to be pulled apart by the permeant appointment. In effect the role of Technical Director in it's true sense has been parked and the club is operating with no one in charge of strategic direction. The club is temporarily rudderless. 2 Schumacher is an inexperienced Head Coach Manager and Walters is an inexperienced Technical Director. Going with one inexperienced person in those roles is risky, the riskiest role to give to someone who is inexperienced is Technical Director and having an inexperienced Technical Director there to support an inexperienced Head Coach is just about the riskiest thing any club could do. 3 Putting a Head Coach in as temporary fix is fine as they can have a short term impact. Technical Directors do not usually have a short impact but their work isn't realised in the short term. If you have an immediate problem you don't solve it by changing your Technical Director. If Martin has created a toxic environment then bringing in Walters on a short term basis to heal wounds is understandable. But to believe it's actually not a risky appointment is to wear some spectacularly rose tinted glasses. The alternative choices : Keep RM till the summer appoint someone available /attainable, given the timing extremely probable that would be somone no good Don’t have anyone in the role until the summer The club have absolutely made the right decision There was absolutely no need to fill the role the guy who was club secretary could have picked up anything that absolutely needed doing. Doesn't matter if it's RM, JW or anyone else as far as the first team is concerned all decisions are on hold until we either secure championship status or get relegated. |
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Post by baconburger on Feb 23, 2024 14:42:40 GMT
Exactly. It makes no sense in appointing an interim technical director, it's a position which only works with a long term view and and any decisions he makes would have to be ripped up again when the new person comes in. It's purely to appease the fans and to give SS some moral support and won't be responsible for any key decisions that a technical director would normally make. He'll be a technical director in name only and with all due respect to Jon he's not really qualified to do the job that's required here anyway. Why not? It give sjw some valuable experience in that roll of which he just may make a fist of it? What would be making a fist of it? He can't bring in any players, he can't really agree any new contracts, what would him making a fist of it look like? |
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Post by baconburger on Feb 23, 2024 14:44:41 GMT
I agree they have a remit to ensure the squad has an appropriate age profile because that is something that affects the financial viability of the club which is very much in the remit of the Technical Director. However I disagree entirely that the Technical Director should determine the style of football - for me that is up to the Head Coach. The Technical Director leads on non footballing matters and the Head Coach leads on footballing matters. If the club adopts your model Schumacher will walk. I perhaps should make myself more clear. I thought that the general concept of having a director in was to ensure a long-term vision. You simply cannot do that if you do not build upon what is already there. I despised RM’s scorched earth policy for this very reason. In my opinion, a director should be hired by a chairman because they believe in a way to run the club that appeals to the chairman. That director says, for example, we should recruit managers who have a strong preference for attacking football and who mostly play formation A. They then go and do that. At that point, they largely leave the manager alone other than providing resources and having an important say in the signings. The director doesn’t need to get in the manager’s way because he’s hired someone who is aligned with the club structure. When that manager fails, he’s sacked and replaced with someone who is also aligned to that structure. This saves the club from bringing in 10-11 new players every year (or is supposed to). Exactly. |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 23, 2024 14:47:30 GMT
There will obviously be work for Walters to do or else he wouldn't have been appointed for the role.
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Post by baconburger on Feb 23, 2024 14:48:56 GMT
I agree they have a remit to ensure the squad has an appropriate age profile because that is something that affects the financial viability of the club which is very much in the remit of the Technical Director. However I disagree entirely that the Technical Director should determine the style of football - for me that is up to the Head Coach. The Technical Director leads on non footballing matters and the Head Coach leads on footballing matters. If the club adopts your model Schumacher will walk. the technical director DOES lead, and has a final say on transfers, along with the head coach and i assume anyone else with executive decision making powers, jc i assume. And Walters WILL have a lot to do the next few months. He will liaise between the transfer team (Dublin and his scouts) and the manager to formulate two strategies in the transfer market and pulling together targets. One strategy for the championship, one for league 1 unfortunately. That's what he'll spend most his time doing and I'm sure he can crack on with that straight away.As for day to day involvement, I'd hope the td plays a strong role as a link between coaching team, executive board, transfer team etc and is important in communicating standards to all concerned and reviewing performance data with coaching staff. I can't see how the TD wouldn't have some input into the decisions the head coach makes, albeit it's for the head coach to make final decisions on team selection and in game tactics Why would you let an interim do that? You'd be saddling a full time appointee with JW's vision. |
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Post by wakeypotter on Feb 23, 2024 14:52:12 GMT
Why not? It give sjw some valuable experience in that roll of which he just may make a fist of it? What would be making a fist of it? He can't bring in any players, he can't really agree any new contracts, what would him making a fist of it look like? Who knows what his role is and I guarantee you don’t. Like fm has said he will have some positive input sheathed in training or a sound board. We have got rid of a bad egg and replaced with a good egg so that can’t be that bad for the club. Oh n there must be loads of “simpletons “ on here as your always right |
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Post by stokiejoe89 on Feb 23, 2024 15:21:43 GMT
What would be making a fist of it? He can't bring in any players, he can't really agree any new contracts, what would him making a fist of it look like? Who knows what his role is and I guarantee you don’t. Like fm has said he will have some positive input sheathed in training or a sound board. We have got rid of a bad egg and replaced with a good egg so that can’t be that bad for the club. Oh n there must be loads of “simpletons “ on here as your always right You should know by now that Bacon knows EVERYTHING. Everything he says is correct and that is all that matters..facts or evidence? No none of that matters where Bacon is concerned. What's in his head that he imagines up is always 100% correct. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 23, 2024 15:24:06 GMT
The TD does not decide on the style of play, formation, type of player required for each position on the pitch, squad rotation and the only say they have on transfers is in terms of the financial position of the club. Do you actually believe Ricky Martin (a man with no coaching badges and no experience of playing football) did any of those things under Neil or Schumacher? He was a senior/middle manager. And do you really think SJW has been brought in to lead on what goes on the pitch? If that's happening to all intent and purpose we've sacked what used to be called the manager, effectively demoted Schumacher and given the role of leading on footballing matter to someone with less experience than Schumacher. That really would be insane. “When hiring, clubs should ensure they are confident that their Technical Director has the ability to establish compelling coaching and playing philosophies.” “8. A key role in preparing the club for the future is for the Technical Director to determine player profiling, scouting and recruitment strategies. An overall player management system or club scouting database can help a Technical Director keep track of all players that are in the region, monitor the progress of potential future signings and ensure they are getting the right experience and exposure to further their development.” Weber (Norwich) was a senior recruitment manager before stepping in to the role. They don’t need to coach but they do need to be able to identify good coaches and be able to build inter-departmental relationships. As for Walters, no, I think he’s a cheerleader to unite the fanbase behind a previous message of hard work and determination (I would have preferred Dallas Cowgirls now that they are on holiday). However, he will almost certainly be in team meetings even if he’s not the one with any executive power (he may well be given it in the summer). Who knows, let’s just hope that it gives a “new manager bounce” feel and we win a few. I don't see how Ricky Martin could have possibly fulfilled the footballing aspects of that job description and I'm not convinced Walters could either for different reasons. I think you are right in that Walters has been brought in for feel good reasons, not to fulfil the usual description of a Technical Director, whatever that might be. In effect the job remains vacant and yet to be defined. The Walters appointment might be making people happy but if you analyse what has gone on it really doesn't look like the club is in a good place either on or off the field. Hope it works out but in effect the club is limping along until summer before starting to put their house in order. Unless everything somehow comes together it doesn't bode well for next season. Incidentally if the club does bring in a Technical Director with a brief to take overall control of footballing matters that must put Schumachers future at the club in doubt. His philosophy might not for that of the new Technical Director and if Martin hasn't had that level of control over footballing matters he's going to feel like he's being undermined. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 23, 2024 15:24:35 GMT
Would it have made any differance if we had waited until we got someone in permenant?
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Post by bertiestan on Feb 23, 2024 15:24:59 GMT
Who knows what his role is and I guarantee you don’t. Like fm has said he will have some positive input sheathed in training or a sound board. We have got rid of a bad egg and replaced with a good egg so that can’t be that bad for the club. Oh n there must be loads of “simpletons “ on here as your always right You should know by now that Bacon knows EVERYTHING. Everything he says is correct and that is all that matters..facts or evidence? No none of that matters where Bacon is concerned. What's in his head that he imagines up is always 100% correct. I’ve given up interacting with the knobber mate |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 23, 2024 15:46:06 GMT
The alternative choices : Keep RM till the summer appoint someone available /attainable, given the timing extremely probable that would be somone no good Don’t have anyone in the role until the summer The club have absolutely made the right decision There was absolutely no need to fill the role the guy who was club secretary could have picked up anything that absolutely needed doing. Doesn't matter if it's RM, JW or anyone else as far as the first team is concerned all decisions are on hold until we either secure championship status or get relegated. And you know what currently needs doing that a secretary could have done,? |
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Post by baconburger on Feb 23, 2024 15:52:42 GMT
www.linkedin.com/pulse/10-key-responsibilities-club-technical-director-steven-dillon“When hiring, clubs should ensure they are confident that their Technical Director has the ability to establish compelling coaching and playing philosophies.” “8. A key role in preparing the club for the future is for the Technical Director to determine player profiling, scouting and recruitment strategies. An overall player management system or club scouting database can help a Technical Director keep track of all players that are in the region, monitor the progress of potential future signings and ensure they are getting the right experience and exposure to further their development.” Weber (Norwich) was a senior recruitment manager before stepping in to the role. They don’t need to coach but they do need to be able to identify good coaches and be able to build inter-departmental relationships. As for Walters, no, I think he’s a cheerleader to unite the fanbase behind a previous message of hard work and determination (I would have preferred Dallas Cowgirls now that they are on holiday). However, he will almost certainly be in team meetings even if he’s not the one with any executive power (he may well be given it in the summer). Who knows, let’s just hope that it gives a “new manager bounce” feel and we win a few. I don't see how Ricky Martin could have possibly fulfilled the footballing aspects of that job description and I'm not convinced Walters could either for different reasons. I think you are right in that Walters has been brought in for feel good reasons, not to fulfil the usual description of a Technical Director, whatever that might be. In effect the job remains vacant and yet to be defined. The Walters appointment might be making people happy but if you analyse what has gone on it really doesn't look like the club is in a good place either on or off the field. Hope it works out but in effect the club is limping along until summer before starting to put their house in order. Unless everything somehow comes together it doesn't bode well for next season. Incidentally if the club does bring in a Technical Director with a brief to take overall control of footballing matters that must put Schumachers future at the club in doubt. His philosophy might not for that of the new Technical Director and if Martin hasn't had that level of control over footballing matters he's going to feel like he's being undermined. That's the problem with JC. He will have convinced SS that his philosophy is in line with that of the club but put him (JC) in a room with someone else and he's likely to walk out of it with a whole new football philosophy. He's a football version of Boris Johnson, trolley and football trolley maybe they're related? |
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Post by baconburger on Feb 23, 2024 15:53:36 GMT
There was absolutely no need to fill the role the guy who was club secretary could have picked up anything that absolutely needed doing. Doesn't matter if it's RM, JW or anyone else as far as the first team is concerned all decisions are on hold until we either secure championship status or get relegated. And you know what currently needs doing that a secretary could have done,? Well certainly not any serious ground work for next season. |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 23, 2024 15:56:08 GMT
And you know what currently needs doing that a secretary could have done,? Well certainly not any serious ground work for next season. None of us know what his day to day role will be, same as anyone at the club so impossible to say who can and can't do it and criticise their appointment |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2024 16:04:19 GMT
www.linkedin.com/pulse/10-key-responsibilities-club-technical-director-steven-dillon“When hiring, clubs should ensure they are confident that their Technical Director has the ability to establish compelling coaching and playing philosophies.” “8. A key role in preparing the club for the future is for the Technical Director to determine player profiling, scouting and recruitment strategies. An overall player management system or club scouting database can help a Technical Director keep track of all players that are in the region, monitor the progress of potential future signings and ensure they are getting the right experience and exposure to further their development.” Weber (Norwich) was a senior recruitment manager before stepping in to the role. They don’t need to coach but they do need to be able to identify good coaches and be able to build inter-departmental relationships. As for Walters, no, I think he’s a cheerleader to unite the fanbase behind a previous message of hard work and determination (I would have preferred Dallas Cowgirls now that they are on holiday). However, he will almost certainly be in team meetings even if he’s not the one with any executive power (he may well be given it in the summer). Who knows, let’s just hope that it gives a “new manager bounce” feel and we win a few. I don't see how Ricky Martin could have possibly fulfilled the footballing aspects of that job description and I'm not convinced Walters could either for different reasons. I think you are right in that Walters has been brought in for feel good reasons, not to fulfil the usual description of a Technical Director, whatever that might be. In effect the job remains vacant and yet to be defined. The Walters appointment might be making people happy but if you analyse what has gone on it really doesn't look like the club is in a good place either on or off the field. Hope it works out but in effect the club is limping along until summer before starting to put their house in order. Unless everything somehow comes together it doesn't bode well for next season. Incidentally if the club does bring in a Technical Director with a brief to take overall control of footballing matters that must put Schumachers future at the club in doubt. His philosophy might not for that of the new Technical Director and if Martin hasn't had that level of control over footballing matters he's going to feel like he's being undermined. Well, I think that one of the reasons it failed so badly was because we hired a man in RM that was so poorly equipped to do the job he was employed to do. I have no idea how the general transition will work for a new technical director given that we already have a manager. It wouldn’t shock me to see Coates lean on SS’s opinion (as he did with AN). At one point, we may get lucky and just fall into a system that works. It hasn’t happened in 7 years but that doesn’t mean that it won’t happen this summer 😂 |
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ian57
Youth Player
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Post by ian57 on Feb 23, 2024 16:10:03 GMT
There will obviously be work for Walters to do or else he wouldn't have been appointed for the role. I wouldn’t be in the least surprised if he didn’t end up with the position permanently.,he was probably sounded out weeks ago for this hence the statement that he made about unity in the club. |
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Post by stokiejoe89 on Feb 23, 2024 16:15:57 GMT
You should know by now that Bacon knows EVERYTHING. Everything he says is correct and that is all that matters..facts or evidence? No none of that matters where Bacon is concerned. What's in his head that he imagines up is always 100% correct. I’ve given up interacting with the knobber mate He's more than likely blocked by most of the board anyway. The ones who haven't blocked him just ignore him He's the board equivalent of the weirdo in the park who shouts at the trees. |
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Post by tuum on Feb 23, 2024 16:25:55 GMT
There will obviously be work for Walters to do or else he wouldn't have been appointed for the role. ..and what is that work..in your opinion? |
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Post by baconburger on Feb 23, 2024 16:29:29 GMT
Well certainly not any serious ground work for next season. None of us know what his day to day role will be, same as anyone at the club so impossible to say who can and can't do it and criticise their appointment Yeah I mean he might just be a cheerleader. |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 23, 2024 16:37:44 GMT
There will obviously be work for Walters to do or else he wouldn't have been appointed for the role. ..and what is that work..in your opinion? No idea. Like most in this thread, I'm just some randomer on a forum. It very likely won't be all the same stuff as Martin was doing and probably will be some of the stuff Martin was doing and probably some different stuff as well. |
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Post by bagnallboothen on Feb 23, 2024 16:39:19 GMT
None of us know what his day to day role will be, same as anyone at the club so impossible to say who can and can't do it and criticise their appointment Yeah I mean he might just be a cheerleader. Whilst I agree the appointment is somewhat to quieten down the natives there is clearly work to do. There's a preseason to sort, all sorts of contracts will likely be due for renewal at the end of the season and we don't have a CEO anymore to work on these things. |
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Post by tuum on Feb 23, 2024 16:47:02 GMT
I don't see how Ricky Martin could have possibly fulfilled the footballing aspects of that job description and I'm not convinced Walters could either for different reasons. I think you are right in that Walters has been brought in for feel good reasons, not to fulfil the usual description of a Technical Director, whatever that might be. In effect the job remains vacant and yet to be defined. The Walters appointment might be making people happy but if you analyse what has gone on it really doesn't look like the club is in a good place either on or off the field. Hope it works out but in effect the club is limping along until summer before starting to put their house in order. Unless everything somehow comes together it doesn't bode well for next season. Incidentally if the club does bring in a Technical Director with a brief to take overall control of footballing matters that must put Schumachers future at the club in doubt. His philosophy might not for that of the new Technical Director and if Martin hasn't had that level of control over footballing matters he's going to feel like he's being undermined. Well, I think that one of the reasons it failed so badly was because we hired a man in RM that was so poorly equipped to do the job he was employed to do. I have no idea how the general transition will work for a new technical director given that we already have a manager. It wouldn’t shock me to see Coates lean on SS’s opinion (as he did with AN). At one point, we may get lucky and just fall into a system that works. It hasn’t happened in 7 years but that doesn’t mean that it won’t happen this summer 😂 Good points. I am happy to roll the dice and go with the flow! |
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Post by lordb on Feb 23, 2024 17:15:15 GMT
The alternative choices : Keep RM till the summer appoint someone available /attainable, given the timing extremely probable that would be somone no good Don’t have anyone in the role until the summer The club have absolutely made the right decision There was absolutely no need to fill the role the guy who was club secretary could have picked up anything that absolutely needed doing. Doesn't matter if it's RM, JW or anyone else as far as the first team is concerned all decisions are on hold until we either secure championship status or get relegated. so the question is is it better to have SJW here , as an interim, or have other existing staff pick up the slack I can't see how the latter is better than the former I can see < & I think thousands/vast majority do too > there being at the very least a positivity re SJW being here even if it's just a short term one as such it's the correct decision worst case scenario is he has no impact at all in which case no harm done whatsoever That doesn't mean he should be the permanent replacement |
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Post by hoppo96 on Feb 23, 2024 17:30:34 GMT
I think Walters here as interim isn't a big issue, just as long as we don't give him permanently if nothing goes wrong. We need the best people we can find in a position, we're not a Jobs for the Boys club.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 23, 2024 17:40:53 GMT
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 23, 2024 17:47:18 GMT
They might as well have asked, Mark Stein, Fuller, Bojan and any other ‘feel good, distract the fans with a work ard/hero’ whilst we scratch our heads over another shit appointment gone wrong.
Glad he’s gone but the appointment is PR based not footballing reasons
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2024 17:51:31 GMT
the technical director DOES lead, and has a final say on transfers, along with the head coach and i assume anyone else with executive decision making powers, jc i assume. And Walters WILL have a lot to do the next few months. He will liaise between the transfer team (Dublin and his scouts) and the manager to formulate two strategies in the transfer market and pulling together targets. One strategy for the championship, one for league 1 unfortunately. That's what he'll spend most his time doing and I'm sure he can crack on with that straight away.As for day to day involvement, I'd hope the td plays a strong role as a link between coaching team, executive board, transfer team etc and is important in communicating standards to all concerned and reviewing performance data with coaching staff. I can't see how the TD wouldn't have some input into the decisions the head coach makes, albeit it's for the head coach to make final decisions on team selection and in game tactics Why would you let an interim do that? You'd be saddling a full time appointee with JW's vision. it shouldn't be one man's vision anymore, should be a uniforn style of play that we try to achieve from top to bottom that can withstand personnel changes at every level |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 23, 2024 18:30:01 GMT
I don't see how Ricky Martin could have possibly fulfilled the footballing aspects of that job description and I'm not convinced Walters could either for different reasons. I think you are right in that Walters has been brought in for feel good reasons, not to fulfil the usual description of a Technical Director, whatever that might be. In effect the job remains vacant and yet to be defined. The Walters appointment might be making people happy but if you analyse what has gone on it really doesn't look like the club is in a good place either on or off the field. Hope it works out but in effect the club is limping along until summer before starting to put their house in order. Unless everything somehow comes together it doesn't bode well for next season. Incidentally if the club does bring in a Technical Director with a brief to take overall control of footballing matters that must put Schumachers future at the club in doubt. His philosophy might not for that of the new Technical Director and if Martin hasn't had that level of control over footballing matters he's going to feel like he's being undermined. Well, I think that one of the reasons it failed so badly was because we hired a man in RM that was so poorly equipped to do the job he was employed to do. I have no idea how the general transition will work for a new technical director given that we already have a manager. It wouldn’t shock me to see Coates lean on SS’s opinion (as he did with AN). At one point, we may get lucky and just fall into a system that works. It hasn’t happened in 7 years but that doesn’t mean that it won’t happen this summer 😂 Neil left Sunderland precisely because they had the sort of model you are suggesting - he wanted a club that wanted a god manager. It wasn't the club who identified Martin it was Neil. Do you think Neil changed his mind about being a god manager and decided to change the club structure to have a Technical Director in charge of footballing matters? I don't. I think Neil brought in Martin precisely because he wasn't qualified to interfer in footballing matters and deal with the crap didn't want to know. So we sacked Neil and kept Martin - a man not recruited as a footballing Technical Director and clearly unsuited to the role. If we really were serious about ditching the god manager model we should have sacked Martin at the same time as Neil, appointed a footballing Technical Director and then appointed a Head Coach. Instead we brought a manager into the existing system, sacked the Technical Director and then brought in a interim Technical Director - we've put a firefighter into what should be a long term strategic role. To be honest I don't know what the model is. What I do know is that they are making a complete pigs ear of whatever they are trying to do. In the circumstances I don't think appointing Walters is necessarily a bad idea. However as a route from going from the god manager model to your take on the Technical Director Model it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. |
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Post by headsgoup on Feb 23, 2024 18:32:58 GMT
We might as well have employed the inanimate carbon rod.
He's basically a mascot at this stage.
Right decision to get rid of Martin, it doesn't half scream "we're in trouble!"
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