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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 23, 2024 10:11:38 GMT
There's no doubt that they had a good relationship at the time of that article but there was some sort of disagreement this season and rumors that Schumacher was growing to resent what he saw as Dewsnip's interference. I can't tell you where, but I definitely read something along those lines when the Plymouth fans were worried Dewsnip might follow Schumacher to Stoke. |
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Post by shakermaker on Feb 23, 2024 10:43:45 GMT
There's no doubt that they had a good relationship at the time of that article but there was some sort of disagreement this season and rumors that Schumacher was growing to resent what he saw as Dewsnip's interference. I can't tell you where, but I definitely read something along those lines when the Plymouth fans were worried Dewsnip might follow Schumacher to Stoke. If true, this is somewhat concerning as it suggests that Schuey does not like answering to authority and wants more holistic control like what Neil demanded when he joined us. It really needs to be made very clear to Schuey that there will be a Technical Director in place and although JC will ensure there is synchronicity between Schuey and the TD, what the TD says goes. |
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Post by mamathestriker on Feb 23, 2024 10:43:49 GMT
There's no doubt that they had a good relationship at the time of that article but there was some sort of disagreement this season and rumors that Schumacher was growing to resent what he saw as Dewsnip's interference. I can't tell you where, but I definitely read something along those lines when the Plymouth fans were worried Dewsnip might follow Schumacher to Stoke. I'd not seen that mate to be fair. Either way, it looks like we'd appoint Dewsnip and it'd be SS influenced (not a good idea) or he'd come on the back of them falling out! |
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Post by teenagefanclub on Feb 23, 2024 10:44:25 GMT
Has Walter’s spoken about his appointment yet?
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Post by pushon on Feb 23, 2024 10:49:01 GMT
Good post. I like Walters and the times I’ve heard him speak he’s been excellent and knows the club too. The only thing he doesn’t have is experience but everyone has to start somewhere. He’s a likeable guy who talks well and that’s a good start. agree in the small bits I’ve seen of him he comes over well , nobodies fool ..a softer speaking Scouser, would be interesting to know his full interim role .ie full Monty or trimmed down vital bits only .. mate up here was friends with the family around the time of our cup run .. .plus believe many of our female fans of a certain age really like him I wonder what his actual responsibilities are. What, in essence,does JC expect from him? What is the verified 'Job Description' as set-out by the board? I hope he is not analogous to a young Loan Player whose primary objective, at Stoke anyway,is to make his mistakes and learn from them,before departing for fresh pastures. |
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Post by smiler_andy on Feb 23, 2024 11:03:36 GMT
To be honest I burst out laughing when I heard we had sacked Ricky Martin. To be honest I feel like Blackadder listening to another one of Baldricks cunning plans when I see what is happening at Stoke. Oh well!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2024 11:17:54 GMT
agree in the small bits I’ve seen of him he comes over well , nobodies fool ..a softer speaking Scouser, would be interesting to know his full interim role .ie full Monty or trimmed down vital bits only .. mate up here was friends with the family around the time of our cup run .. .plus believe many of our female fans of a certain age really like him I wonder what his actual responsibilities are. What, in essence,does JC expect from him? What is the verified 'Job Description' as set-out by the board? I hope he is not analogous to a young Loan Player whose primary objective, at Stoke anyway,is to make his mistakes and learn from them,before departing for fresh pastures. If he’s here for 4 months, I assume that job role 1 is to be very positive and lead the rallying cry. After that, it’s probably just basic administrative tasks (attend meetings, offer opinions, sign cheques for requisitions etc). By the time he actually got his feet under him in a new job, he’d be out the door anyways. Maybe, he’ll be involved in the hunt for his long-term replacement. If it’s interim with a view to stay, then I’d assume it’s exactly the same but with a little more impetus on steps the club should take in the future to push on, players they may want to consider etc. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 23, 2024 11:20:45 GMT
There's no doubt that they had a good relationship at the time of that article but there was some sort of disagreement this season and rumors that Schumacher was growing to resent what he saw as Dewsnip's interference. I can't tell you where, but I definitely read something along those lines when the Plymouth fans were worried Dewsnip might follow Schumacher to Stoke. If true, this is somewhat concerning as it suggests that Schuey does not like answering to authority and wants more holistic control like what Neil demanded when he joined us. It really needs to be made very clear to Schuey that there will be a Technical Director in place and although JC will ensure there is synchronicity between Schuey and the TD, what the TD says goes. Neil didn't demand more control when he joined us. He joined us because we operated a god manager structure and that's what Neil wanted. It was Neil who brought in Martin which on the face of it doesn't make sense. I can only assume that the actual expectations of the "god manager" role at Stoke were ridiculous and Neil recognised he needed someone like Martin to take on the non-footballing stuff. It doesn't make sense that he brought in someone who would make him play second fiddle when he expressly came in to be lead. I really don't subscribe to the idea that the Technical Director/DoF is the kingpin and the Manger/Head Coach is their lackey and I can't see any self respecting Manager/Head Coach (including Schumacher) putting up with that. It seems to me that when Neil left Martin tried to expand his role that way and Schumacher (quite rightly) kicked back. Seeing the structure in terms of a linear hierarchy with the Technical Director/DoF at the top of the pile strikes me as wrong. I see it more as a team with each of the key members of the team having the last say on their area of responsibility. So Schumacher has final say on the style of football and the type of players he needs with Walters having final say on whether the club can afford the players identified and whether the age and future market value of the squad is financially viable. You need good team players to make this work - not a bunch of individualistic egotists trying to be top dog. Hopefully Walters and Schumacher can recognise the limits of their remit, respect each other's boundaries and work togther for the good of the club rather than the good of themselves. |
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Post by ravey123 on Feb 23, 2024 11:24:03 GMT
I wonder what his actual responsibilities are. What, in essence,does JC expect from him? What is the verified 'Job Description' as set-out by the board? I hope he is not analogous to a young Loan Player whose primary objective, at Stoke anyway,is to make his mistakes and learn from them,before departing for fresh pastures. If he’s here for 4 months, I assume that job role 1 is to be very positive and lead the rallying cry. After that, it’s probably just basic administrative tasks (attend meetings, offer opinions, sign cheques for requisitions etc). By the time he actually got his feet under him in a new job, he’d be out the door anyways. Maybe, he’ll be involved in the hunt for his long-term replacement. If it’s interim with a view to stay, then I’d assume it’s exactly the same but with a little more impetus on steps the club should take in the future to push on, players they may want to consider etc. Just maybe he’s bloody good at it and it turns into a permanent position for him. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2024 11:26:54 GMT
If he’s here for 4 months, I assume that job role 1 is to be very positive and lead the rallying cry. After that, it’s probably just basic administrative tasks (attend meetings, offer opinions, sign cheques for requisitions etc). By the time he actually got his feet under him in a new job, he’d be out the door anyways. Maybe, he’ll be involved in the hunt for his long-term replacement. If it’s interim with a view to stay, then I’d assume it’s exactly the same but with a little more impetus on steps the club should take in the future to push on, players they may want to consider etc. Just maybe he’s bloody good at it and it turns into a permanent position for him. One thing is for sure, it won’t be for a lack of trying if he isn’t good at it. I didn’t want him here but now that he is here, I’d much rather see him succeed than fail. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2024 11:31:00 GMT
If true, this is somewhat concerning as it suggests that Schuey does not like answering to authority and wants more holistic control like what Neil demanded when he joined us. It really needs to be made very clear to Schuey that there will be a Technical Director in place and although JC will ensure there is synchronicity between Schuey and the TD, what the TD says goes. Neil didn't demand more control when he joined us. He joined us because we operated a god manager structure and that's what Neil wanted. It was Neil who brought in Martin which on the face of it doesn't make sense. I can only assume that the actual expectations of the "god manager" role at Stoke were ridiculous and Neil recognised he needed someone like Martin to take on the non-footballing stuff. It doesn't make sense that he brought in someone who would make him play second fiddle when he expressly came in to be lead. I really don't subscribe to the idea that the Technical Director/DoF is the kingpin and the Manger/Head Coach is their lackey and I can't see any self respecting Manager/Head Coach (including Schumacher) putting up with that. It seems to me that when Neil left Martin tried to expand his role that way and Schumacher (quite rightly) kicked back. Seeing the structure in terms of a linear hierarchy with the Technical Director/DoF at the top of the pile strikes me as wrong. I see it more as a team with each of the key members of the team having the last say on their area of responsibility. So Schumacher has final say on the style of football and the type of players he needs with Walters having final say on whether the club can afford the players identified and whether the age and future market value of the squad is financially viable. You need good team players to make this work - not a bunch of individualistic egotists trying to be top dog. Hopefully Walters and Schumacher can recognise the limits of their remit, respect each other's boundaries and work togther for the good of the club rather than the good of themselves. I agree with this. However, I think it’s also up to the idea of the Technical Director to set the long term vision of the club up, including the type of football that they want them to player and the general age (for example) of the signings that they want. It’s up to that director to then employ a head coach that is then in-line with that particular vision and to give them as much resources as they can to implement it. If they fail, they then need to find another head coach who believes in the same vision. |
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Post by baconburger on Feb 23, 2024 11:33:19 GMT
I wonder what his actual responsibilities are. What, in essence,does JC expect from him? What is the verified 'Job Description' as set-out by the board? I hope he is not analogous to a young Loan Player whose primary objective, at Stoke anyway,is to make his mistakes and learn from them,before departing for fresh pastures. If he’s here for 4 months, I assume that job role 1 is to be very positive and lead the rallying cry. After that, it’s probably just basic administrative tasks (attend meetings, offer opinions, sign cheques for requisitions etc). By the time he actually got his feet under him in a new job, he’d be out the door anyways. Maybe, he’ll be involved in the hunt for his long-term replacement. If it’s interim with a view to stay, then I’d assume it’s exactly the same but with a little more impetus on steps the club should take in the future to push on, players they may want to consider etc. It's a stunt. Any tasks he's going to fulfil could easily have been picked up by the bloke who used to be the club secretary whatever his title is nowadays TD/SD/DoF is not a short termist role therefore interim is just a BS diversionary tactic to appease a fanbase that largely lives in the past. If however he's really going to be steering the future footballing direction of the club it's smalltime in the extreme, a few months at Fleetwood and I wondered what RM's credentials for the job were FFS. |
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furry
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Post by furry on Feb 23, 2024 11:41:02 GMT
However, I think it’s also up to the idea of the Technical Director to set the long term vision of the club up, including the type of football that they want them to player and the general age (for example) of the signings that they want. It’s up to that director to then employ a head coach that is then in-line with that particular vision and to give them as much resources as they can to implement it. If they fail, they then need to find another head coach who believes in the same vision. [/quote]
Spot on.
The TD / DoF role should be a long term appointment that spells out the blueprint for the club. Managers come and go, we need to get this appointment right if we wish to follow the Brentford or Brighton model.
If we appoint the managers mate, no matter how good he is, we have learnt absolutely nothing.
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Post by coomerson on Feb 23, 2024 11:41:54 GMT
I seriously hope not. And Steve seems too humble for it. But is there a risk his nose is put out a little with SJW being such a club idol rocking up and watching over him. It might make him feel more stressed rather than less.
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Post by baconburger on Feb 23, 2024 11:46:02 GMT
If true, this is somewhat concerning as it suggests that Schuey does not like answering to authority and wants more holistic control like what Neil demanded when he joined us. It really needs to be made very clear to Schuey that there will be a Technical Director in place and although JC will ensure there is synchronicity between Schuey and the TD, what the TD says goes. Neil didn't demand more control when he joined us. He joined us because we operated a god manager structure and that's what Neil wanted. It was Neil who brought in Martin which on the face of it doesn't make sense. I can only assume that the actual expectations of the "god manager" role at Stoke were ridiculous and Neil recognised he needed someone like Martin to take on the non-footballing stuff. It doesn't make sense that he brought in someone who would make him play second fiddle when he expressly came in to be lead. I really don't subscribe to the idea that the Technical Director/DoF is the kingpin and the Manger/Head Coach is their lackey and I can't see any self respecting Manager/Head Coach (including Schumacher) putting up with that. It seems to me that when Neil left Martin tried to expand his role that way and Schumacher (quite rightly) kicked back. Seeing the structure in terms of a linear hierarchy with the Technical Director/DoF at the top of the pile strikes me as wrong. I see it more as a team with each of the key members of the team having the last say on their area of responsibility. So Schumacher has final say on the style of football and the type of players he needs with Walters having final say on whether the club can afford the players identified and whether the age and future market value of the squad is financially viable. You need good team players to make this work - not a bunch of individualistic egotists trying to be top dog. Hopefully Walters and Schumacher can recognise the limits of their remit, respect each other's boundaries and work togther for the good of the club rather than the good of themselves. Sort of however the style of football should be part of the blueprint handed to both manager/head coach and TD/SD/DoF to implement otherwise you end up constantly flip flopping on the whims of the people you choose. Problem is JC doesn't believe in anything or have a favoured approach so doesn't stick with anything for more than 5 minutes before he loses faith in the last messiah/snake oil salesman and believes in whatever his new messiah/snake oil salesman tells him is the road to the promised land. |
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Post by shakermaker on Feb 23, 2024 11:50:08 GMT
If true, this is somewhat concerning as it suggests that Schuey does not like answering to authority and wants more holistic control like what Neil demanded when he joined us. It really needs to be made very clear to Schuey that there will be a Technical Director in place and although JC will ensure there is synchronicity between Schuey and the TD, what the TD says goes. Neil didn't demand more control when he joined us. He joined us because we operated a god manager structure and that's what Neil wanted. It was Neil who brought in Martin which on the face of it doesn't make sense. I can only assume that the actual expectations of the "god manager" role at Stoke were ridiculous and Neil recognised he needed someone like Martin to take on the non-footballing stuff. It doesn't make sense that he brought in someone who would make him play second fiddle when he expressly came in to be lead. I really don't subscribe to the idea that the Technical Director/DoF is the kingpin and the Manger/Head Coach is their lackey and I can't see any self respecting Manager/Head Coach (including Schumacher) putting up with that. It seems to me that when Neil left Martin tried to expand his role that way and Schumacher (quite rightly) kicked back. Seeing the structure in terms of a linear hierarchy with the Technical Director/DoF at the top of the pile strikes me as wrong. I see it more as a team with each of the key members of the team having the last say on their area of responsibility. So Schumacher has final say on the style of football and the type of players he needs with Walters having final say on whether the club can afford the players identified and whether the age and future market value of the squad is financially viable. You need good team players to make this work - not a bunch of individualistic egotists trying to be top dog. Hopefully Walters and Schumacher can recognise the limits of their remit, respect each other's boundaries and work togther for the good of the club rather than the good of themselves. I think you are largely correct. Martin was most likely brought in by Neil to bring in the specific players he wanted – Stevens, McNally, Rose, and obviously Pearson and Johnson were Neil choices and Martin (as his close confidante) was instructed to just go out and get them with no questions asked. He then used Martin to create the autonomous control he wanted (hence sacking off the coaching staff). An independent TD (or more specifically, a Director of Football) would have questioned Neil's demands more, particularly around the age profile of players and the standards of the coaching staff. I guess a DoF should find out from the Head Coach what style of football he wants to implement, the systems he'd most commonly deploy, examples of other teams he'd like to imitate etc. The DoF should then work with the Head of Recruitment to find these players. The Technical Director then sells the club to those players identified and negotiates the contracts. So when we appoint a new TD, I would hope it's someone well-versed in staff management and financials but also someone who keeps his nose out of the football side of the house and just manages the club operations. In my view, we need to appoint a Director of Football to put in place a strong foundation for coaching and recruitment. I think there is value in keeping Jared on as a Chief Scout and utilizing his knowledge and expertise of player performance stats, but we also need to appoint an experienced Head of Recruitment for him to work up to who looks not only at footballing ability but also the character required for the Head Coach's needs. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 23, 2024 11:55:51 GMT
My understanding is that the technical director sets out the long term aims the manager looks more at the short term objectives and achieving them within that framework. So the technical director is looking years in advanced and the head coach is looking at the season. I'm not quite sure how a short term interim DF like Jonathan Walters works. Presumably he's there to keep the club ticking over for the rest of the season.
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i1da
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Post by i1da on Feb 23, 2024 11:55:56 GMT
I seriously hope not. And Steve seems too humble for it. But is there a risk his nose is put out a little with SJW being such a club idol rocking up and watching over him. It might make him feel more stressed rather than less. About 20 years ago, I was part of a 3 man leadership team. Chairman, COO, CFO. We developed the vision between us and each of us knew our roles and responsibilities and how they related to the vision. If someone was needing help the others jumped in to ensure success. This nonsense of who's the boss/Who's looking over my shoulder has no place in modern business. The job is too big for one person, and yet all parts of the job need to be in absolute synch to be successful. IF the team members are more concerned with petty rivalries, then we're doomed to failure. When the leadership team is focused on helping each other achieve the mission, we'll be a force to reckon with. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 23, 2024 12:01:06 GMT
I seriously hope not. And Steve seems too humble for it. But is there a risk his nose is put out a little with SJW being such a club idol rocking up and watching over him. It might make him feel more stressed rather than less. About 20 years ago, I was part of a 3 man leadership team. Chairman, COO, CFO. We developed the vision between us and each of us knew our roles and responsibilities and how they related to the vision. If someone was needing help the others jumped in to ensure success. This nonsense of who's the boss/Who's looking over my shoulder has no place in modern business. The job is too big for one person, and yet all parts of the job need to be in absolute synch to be successful. IF the team members are more concerned with petty rivalries, then we're doomed to failure. When the leadership team is focused on helping each other achieve the mission, we'll be a force to reckon with. I guess the problem comes when one person thinks another needs help and the other sees it as interference in his role. It must be very difficult not to tread on toes and relationships change over the years. It takes a special sort of understanding to help someone without making them feel insecure and inadequate. |
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Post by lordb on Feb 23, 2024 12:04:57 GMT
Assuming we're after Dewsnip as a replacement (who knows though?!), isn't that us falling into the same situation as AN appointing RM? You'd assume he'd be an SS pick. possibly but there's clearly an enormous difference in character type |
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Post by lordb on Feb 23, 2024 12:05:42 GMT
I seriously hope not. And Steve seems too humble for it. But is there a risk his nose is put out a little with SJW being such a club idol rocking up and watching over him. It might make him feel more stressed rather than less. About 20 years ago, I was part of a 3 man leadership team. Chairman, COO, CFO. We developed the vision between us and each of us knew our roles and responsibilities and how they related to the vision. If someone was needing help the others jumped in to ensure success. This nonsense of who's the boss/Who's looking over my shoulder has no place in modern business. The job is too big for one person, and yet all parts of the job need to be in absolute synch to be successful. IF the team members are more concerned with petty rivalries, then we're doomed to failure. When the leadership team is focused on helping each other achieve the mission, we'll be a force to reckon with. quality people working together structure is secondary |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 23, 2024 12:16:05 GMT
Since he got rid of of the back room staff,like the under 21s & under 18s coaches,they seem to have got worse,the under 21s were up there every season under Rooster,now they are mid table,the under 18s are 2nd bottom,with regular heavy defeats this season.
He brought people in who he knew he could dominate,I bet he thought he could do the same with SS,but it backfired,SS was having none of it.
I wonder if Martin was hoping SS would get sacked,then try and bring in someone he could dominate.
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i1da
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Post by i1da on Feb 23, 2024 12:17:14 GMT
About 20 years ago, I was part of a 3 man leadership team. Chairman, COO, CFO. We developed the vision between us and each of us knew our roles and responsibilities and how they related to the vision. If someone was needing help the others jumped in to ensure success. This nonsense of who's the boss/Who's looking over my shoulder has no place in modern business. The job is too big for one person, and yet all parts of the job need to be in absolute synch to be successful. IF the team members are more concerned with petty rivalries, then we're doomed to failure. When the leadership team is focused on helping each other achieve the mission, we'll be a force to reckon with. I guess the problem comes when one person thinks another needs help and the other sees it as interference in his role. It must be very difficult not to tread on toes and relationships change over the years. It takes a special sort of understanding to help someone without making them feel insecure and inadequate. The key is communication. We'd have a weekly lunch meeting to review the past week's operational results and progress towards our mutually agreed long term goals, then set our objectives for the coming week. But you're right, looking back it was always a positive, pleasant get-together with the focus on what the organization achieved rather than what did a particular person achieve (or fail to achieve). |
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Post by skip on Feb 23, 2024 12:19:30 GMT
If he’s here for 4 months, I assume that job role 1 is to be very positive and lead the rallying cry. After that, it’s probably just basic administrative tasks (attend meetings, offer opinions, sign cheques for requisitions etc). By the time he actually got his feet under him in a new job, he’d be out the door anyways. Maybe, he’ll be involved in the hunt for his long-term replacement. If it’s interim with a view to stay, then I’d assume it’s exactly the same but with a little more impetus on steps the club should take in the future to push on, players they may want to consider etc. It's a stunt. Any tasks he's going to fulfil could easily have been picked up by the bloke who used to be the club secretary whatever his title is nowadays TD/SD/DoF is not a short termist role therefore interim is just a BS diversionary tactic to appease a fanbase that largely lives in the past. If however he's really going to be steering the future footballing direction of the club it's smalltime in the extreme, a few months at Fleetwood and I wondered what RM's credentials for the job were FFS. Disagree. Regardless of Walters' medium or long term role, Schumacher has got someone to speak to with candour and bounce ideas off, who gives a shit about the club, has played high level football in recent times, and is generally regarded as a trustworthy and articulate individual, and given the state that we're in, that will more than do for now. |
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Post by skip on Feb 23, 2024 12:27:07 GMT
Good post. I like Walters and the times I’ve heard him speak he’s been excellent and knows the club too. The only thing he doesn’t have is experience but everyone has to start somewhere. He’s a likeable guy who talks well and that’s a good start. We now have two people with relatively little experience doing probably the two most responsible jobs at the club. The role where experience is really important is Technical Director/DoF - especially when the Head Coach is relatively inexperienced. I'm not saying it won't work and I wish SJW and Schumacher well but being realistic this is a very high risk decision. Way more experienced personnel have made made an absolute pig's c*** of things so far this last few seasons, so I'm more than happy for Schumacher and Walters to be in charge. For now at least. |
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Post by theoptimist on Feb 23, 2024 12:27:13 GMT
It's a strategic role, so having a short term interim makes no sense whatsoever.
The tech director should be executing mid/long term policy. No point in SJW applying a direction and making decisions that have long term impact, if the permanent appointee is in before the summer.
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Post by skip on Feb 23, 2024 12:29:19 GMT
It's a strategic role, so having a short term interim makes no sense whatsoever. The tech director should be executing mid/long term policy. No point in SJW applying a direction and making decisions that have long term impact, if the permanent appointee is in before the summer. All that matters in the immediate term is to avoid relegation. We can concern ourselves with future ambition and direction after we've not gone down a league. |
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Post by theoptimist on Feb 23, 2024 12:33:31 GMT
It's a strategic role, so having a short term interim makes no sense whatsoever. The tech director should be executing mid/long term policy. No point in SJW applying a direction and making decisions that have long term impact, if the permanent appointee is in before the summer. All that matters in the immediate term is to avoid relegation. We can concern ourselves with future ambition and direction after we've not gone down a league. Obviously! So why fill the position at all. Or is he being appointed as head cheerleader? |
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Post by mamathestriker on Feb 23, 2024 12:33:38 GMT
Assuming we're after Dewsnip as a replacement (who knows though?!), isn't that us falling into the same situation as AN appointing RM? You'd assume he'd be an SS pick. possibly but there's clearly an enormous difference in character type Both SS and Dewsnip do seem likeable for a start! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2024 12:33:49 GMT
We now have two people with relatively little experience doing probably the two most responsible jobs at the club. The role where experience is really important is Technical Director/DoF - especially when the Head Coach is relatively inexperienced. I'm not saying it won't work and I wish SJW and Schumacher well but being realistic this is a very high risk decision. Way more experienced personnel have made made an absolute pig's c*** of things so far this last few seasons, so I'm more than happy for Schumacher and Walters to be in charge. For now at least. Was RM ever “experienced”? Certainly, more than JW, yes. However, he wasn’t that experienced. Experienced staff make mistakes due to incompetence. Inexperienced staff make mistakes due to incompetence and lack of experience. There’s always a learning curve and they always come with mistakes. In my opinion, the best structure is one that offers a mixture between proven, previous success and youthful determination + new ideas. One without the other doesn’t seem like the best long term strategy. |
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