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Post by lordb on Feb 23, 2024 8:34:15 GMT
I am still not sure why we got rid of RM. Despite all the noise on here about RM being toxic I have not seen anything that actually confirms this. Interfering in team selection? No evidence. Clash of personalities with SS forcing JC into backing one of them? No evidence. Poor recruitment? Possibly but did it warrant making the change in Feb rather than at end of season? Sacrificial lamb because JC could see the fans had turned on RM (based on nothing more than hearsay and unsubstantiated social media posts). Most probably. I am not saying the decision is not the correct one but it seems to me that RM is the victim of a witch-hunt. Other than the poor recruitment I am not aware of other issues that would warrant making the change. Speak to anyone within the club at any level and the response is the same bullshitter who interfered in everything and got rid of people who should still be here |
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Post by bertiestan on Feb 23, 2024 8:38:37 GMT
I am still not sure why we got rid of RM. Despite all the noise on here about RM being toxic I have not seen anything that actually confirms this. Interfering in team selection? No evidence. Clash of personalities with SS forcing JC into backing one of them? No evidence. Poor recruitment? Possibly but did it warrant making the change in Feb rather than at end of season? Sacrificial lamb because JC could see the fans had turned on RM (based on nothing more than hearsay and unsubstantiated social media posts). Most probably. I am not saying the decision is not the correct one but it seems to me that RM is the victim of a witch-hunt. Other than the poor recruitment I am not aware of other issues that would warrant making the change. He got the sack so there’s your evidence 🤷🏼 |
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Post by frasier37 on Feb 23, 2024 8:42:32 GMT
In my opinion replacing RM with JW is the only thing i applaud the board for....Not because i want Johnny Walters on board, but because they took notice of how divisive RM was and finally acted. The good thing is by doing this they have hopefully evaporated the toxic atmosphere coming from supporters, which is a good thing all around, not only in the dressing room. John Walters is interim? i'm happy with that. Time will tell if that was the right thing but, acting quickly was a finally a good move. Long term worries me. You can buy the best sailing ship with the best rigging etc, but if the ship owner refuses to hire a confident captain that's a good communicator etc, then your odds of a successful voyage are not very good. i'm looking forward to the next home game (i think) Hopefully we all support the team and stick to spitting venom at the Ref  |
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Post by bagnallboothen on Feb 23, 2024 8:48:22 GMT
I am still not sure why we got rid of RM. Despite all the noise on here about RM being toxic I have not seen anything that actually confirms this. Interfering in team selection? No evidence. Clash of personalities with SS forcing JC into backing one of them? No evidence. Poor recruitment? Possibly but did it warrant making the change in Feb rather than at end of season? Sacrificial lamb because JC could see the fans had turned on RM (based on nothing more than hearsay and unsubstantiated social media posts). Most probably. I am not saying the decision is not the correct one but it seems to me that RM is the victim of a witch-hunt. Other than the poor recruitment I am not aware of other issues that would warrant making the change. How would sacking a technical director in the summer make any sense? He's a victim of his own bullshit and piss poor performance. Nothing else. |
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Post by Scouse on Feb 23, 2024 8:49:13 GMT
I was thinking more of making them feel part of the club not necessarily motivate them. I don't think he will be going in the dressing room on match day to G the team up. Schumacher's job will be to motivate them but their needs to be people around the club to make it feel like it's one big family all with the same goal of helping the club move forward. If players feel like assets rather than part of the club then their will be tension, they will feel they are being used. For a coach to do their job properly they need to be able to create a bond with players to help motivate them to improve, if the players don't feel they are really wanted by the club then it's harder to coach them. Imagine going work feeling like you are only there to be trained up and sold off, it's hardly going to motivate you to do the best for the club is it. Walters coming back shows he is still a part of the Stoke City family even after his playing career has ended. I think that's a good message to send players which apply themselves well. This is my reading of the situation. I don't think SJW is here to do the dry, technical, long term strategy work you would normally expect of a Technical Director and in fact as an interim (which doesn't make any sense for that sort of role anyway) he can't. He's here to get rid of the toxic atmosphere and bring in a feel good factor. And it sounds like that's what is needed. Having said that I think Martin is fast becoming the ultimate scapegoat and being blamed for all the bad things that have happened at the club. His role in transfers in particular is being massively overstated. If the reports about the atmosphere he created are true he had to go but to think this solves all our problems is very naive. This , agree re SJW role as an interim appointment he simply can’t take on the full TD / DoF decision making role across the wide variety of departments the post encompasses ..I presume he’ll work with departmental heads to produce the handover documents that the permanent appointment will need ..his role will include supporting SS , rather than being his judge and jury ( part of the DoF full role ) and improving the atmosphere if there is one ..it may include meeting with disgruntled players / agents Rumours of course , but provided RM didn’t get dismissed in effect for creating a bad atmosphere, or interfering where he should have been delegating and letting people get on with their roles ( or dismiss , replace them ) then his dismissal as per the club statement was due to failing his own KPI which was using the budget provided by the board to achieve the boards 1st team league position target ..presumably after the dismissal of AN which he’d have fed his opinion into the board , he’d have been placed on a PIP ( personal Improvement Plan ) by the board , with no improvement , indeed the position worsened, his time ran out |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 23, 2024 8:52:04 GMT
Thank fuck he's gone. It was NEVER going to work with Ste managing the team. I won't say any more on this but to say I'm relieved is an understatement. This brings up the question of whether the problem here was a personality one between Schumacher and Martin and they just didn't get along personally... or whether it's an issue Schumacher had with the actual position of the technical director and the influence and power they have? Will Steve be able to work under another technical director if the job descriptions stay the same? Jury’s out on Schumacher too martin was toxic had to go and was the route of so much that was wrong but right now Schumacher has made the results worse , the performances worse , the selection are bizarre and the camp seemingly split and unhappy , his has now been removed if that was indded an issue for him but he needs results and quick. Im not sure Walters is necessarily just a talisman appointment he is bright knows the ropes and will sense quickly with his new access if Schumacher is part pf the problem or part of the solution and he has the owners ear . He won’t be shy to say and if he thinks its the former and I wouldn’t rule out another interim appointment heat is on not off Schumacher |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Feb 23, 2024 8:55:27 GMT
This brings up the question of whether the problem here was a personality one between Schumacher and Martin and they just didn't get along personally... or whether it's an issue Schumacher had with the actual position of the technical director and the influence and power they have? Will Steve be able to work under another technical director if the job descriptions stay the same? Jury’s out on Schumacher too martin was toxic had to go and was the route of so much that was wrong but right now Schumacher has made the results worse , the performances worse , the selection are bizarre and the camp seemingly split and unhappy , his has now been removed if that was indded an issue for him but he needs results and quick. Im not sure Walters is necessarily just a talisman appointment he is bright knows the ropes and will sense quickly with his new access if Schumacher is part pf the problem or part of the solution and he has the owners ear . He won’t be shy to say and if he thinks its the former and I wouldn’t rule out another interim appointment heat is on not off Schumacher Good post. I like Walters and the times I’ve heard him speak he’s been excellent and knows the club too. The only thing he doesn’t have is experience but everyone has to start somewhere. He’s a likeable guy who talks well and that’s a good start. |
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Post by tuum on Feb 23, 2024 9:04:54 GMT
I am still not sure why we got rid of RM. Despite all the noise on here about RM being toxic I have not seen anything that actually confirms this. Interfering in team selection? No evidence. Clash of personalities with SS forcing JC into backing one of them? No evidence. Poor recruitment? Possibly but did it warrant making the change in Feb rather than at end of season? Sacrificial lamb because JC could see the fans had turned on RM (based on nothing more than hearsay and unsubstantiated social media posts). Most probably. I am not saying the decision is not the correct one but it seems to me that RM is the victim of a witch-hunt. Other than the poor recruitment I am not aware of other issues that would warrant making the change. How would sacking a technical director in the summer make any sense? He's a victim of his own bullshit and piss poor performance. Nothing else. In terms of recruitment I suppose it makes as much sense as sacking him in Feb and appointing an interim. The process for identifying and scouting players is primarily with the manager and Jared. The DoF clearly has an input but his primary role would be negotiating terms to get the players the manager wants (or, is at least happy to have) If SJW is going to develop the recruitment strategy then appoint him on a permanent basis. If not, then it looks like we have given him a fancy title to provide some gravitas behind SS for the next 3 months. I also don't get this recruitment lark. I accept that RM is ultimately responsible and he has to carry the can but I find it hard to accept that the decision on who to buy was predominantly his. He is being held accountable,in part,for both managers inability to get a tune out of the players. |
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Post by Scouse on Feb 23, 2024 9:05:33 GMT
Jury’s out on Schumacher too martin was toxic had to go and was the route of so much that was wrong but right now Schumacher has made the results worse , the performances worse , the selection are bizarre and the camp seemingly split and unhappy , his has now been removed if that was indded an issue for him but he needs results and quick. Im not sure Walters is necessarily just a talisman appointment he is bright knows the ropes and will sense quickly with his new access if Schumacher is part pf the problem or part of the solution and he has the owners ear . He won’t be shy to say and if he thinks its the former and I wouldn’t rule out another interim appointment heat is on not off Schumacher Good post. I like Walters and the times I’ve heard him speak he’s been excellent and knows the club too. The only thing he doesn’t have is experience but everyone has to start somewhere. He’s a likeable guy who talks well and that’s a good start. agree in the small bits I’ve seen of him he comes over well , nobodies fool ..a softer speaking Scouser, would be interesting to know his full interim role .ie full Monty or trimmed down vital bits only .. mate up here was friends with the family around the time of our cup run .. .plus believe many of our female fans of a certain age really like him |
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 23, 2024 9:06:51 GMT
Well he definitely failed his five pillars shite. Positive culture my arse. That alone was enough to get rid imo Some people can't see their own arrogance and think they are great at what they do, they like to take credit for this that and the other when it's largely down to other people. The type of people that say I did this, I have done that and forget it's a team effort and forget it's all about WE not me. These people don't realise how disliked they are, they destroy the soul in a place and bring everyone's mood down when they enter a room. If Ricky is one of those then good riddance Yes, one of my favourite idioms, 'There's no i in team'. Anyone going round saying 'I did this...' Or 'I think this... ' when he's talking about things that a team have done, are doing, even if he is head of that team is far too self important. |
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Post by tuum on Feb 23, 2024 9:10:45 GMT
This is my reading of the situation. I don't think SJW is here to do the dry, technical, long term strategy work you would normally expect of a Technical Director and in fact as an interim (which doesn't make any sense for that sort of role anyway) he can't. He's here to get rid of the toxic atmosphere and bring in a feel good factor. And it sounds like that's what is needed. Having said that I think Martin is fast becoming the ultimate scapegoat and being blamed for all the bad things that have happened at the club. His role in transfers in particular is being massively overstated. If the reports about the atmosphere he created are true he had to go but to think this solves all our problems is very naive. This , agree re SJW role as an interim appointment he simply can’t take on the full TD / DoF decision making role across the wide variety of departments the post encompasses ..I presume he’ll work with departmental heads to produce the handover documents that the permanent appointment will need ..his role will include supporting SS , rather than being his judge and jury ( part of the DoF full role ) and improving the atmosphere if there is one ..it may include meeting with disgruntled players / agents Rumours of course , but provided RM didn’t get dismissed in effect for creating a bad atmosphere, or interfering where he should have been delegating and letting people get on with their roles ( or dismiss , replace them ) then his dismissal as per the club statement was due to failing his own KPI which was using the budget provided by the board to achieve the boards 1st team league position target ..presumably after the dismissal of AN which he’d have fed his opinion into the board , he’d have been placed on a PIP ( personal Improvement Plan ) by the board , with no improvement , indeed the position worsened, his time ran out PIP? I like it. Do you reckon this is a HR thing. A necessary step as a precursor to sacking?😁 |
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Post by mamathestriker on Feb 23, 2024 9:11:12 GMT
Assuming we're after Dewsnip as a replacement (who knows though?!), isn't that us falling into the same situation as AN appointing RM?
You'd assume he'd be an SS pick.
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 23, 2024 9:11:43 GMT
Did I hear Huth right a last year at one of the meet the fans things that he was studying too become a director of football. Apparently that's the way they do it in Germany. The blokes got no experience but fuck it let's have him in the building He’s at Leicester I believe I heard him on the radio a bit ago and I think he overseas/arranges for the youth players to get loaned out for experience and monitors their progress. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 23, 2024 9:11:46 GMT
How would sacking a technical director in the summer make any sense? He's a victim of his own bullshit and piss poor performance. Nothing else. In terms of recruitment I suppose it makes as much sense as sacking him in Feb and appointing an interim. The process for identifying and scouting players is primarily with the manager and Jared. The DoF clearly has an input but his primary role would be negotiating terms to get the players the manager wants (or, is at least happy to have) If SJW is going to develop the recruitment strategy then appoint him on a permanent basis. If not, then it looks like we have given him a fancy title to provide some gravitas behind SS for the next 3 months. I also don't get this recruitment lark. I accept that RM is ultimately responsible and he has to carry the can but I find it hard to accept that the decision on who to buy was predominantly his. He is being held accountable,in part,for both managers inability to get a tune out of the players. I agree with you about Martin's role in recruitment being not that significant and sacking him hasn't solved that problem. However if he created a toxic atmosphere it would impact on the players and performances so removing him and bringing in someone who can improve the environment and galvanise the club can only be a good thing. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 23, 2024 9:16:20 GMT
What was the original title of this thread? Ricky Martin - Transfer Window Debrief -> Ricky Martin - Technical Director -> Ricky Martin Technical Director **Sacked** (Percy) -> Ricky Martin - Sacked: Jonathan Walters IN (Interim) |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 23, 2024 9:19:39 GMT
Jury’s out on Schumacher too martin was toxic had to go and was the route of so much that was wrong but right now Schumacher has made the results worse , the performances worse , the selection are bizarre and the camp seemingly split and unhappy , his has now been removed if that was indded an issue for him but he needs results and quick. Im not sure Walters is necessarily just a talisman appointment he is bright knows the ropes and will sense quickly with his new access if Schumacher is part pf the problem or part of the solution and he has the owners ear . He won’t be shy to say and if he thinks its the former and I wouldn’t rule out another interim appointment heat is on not off Schumacher Good post. I like Walters and the times I’ve heard him speak he’s been excellent and knows the club too. The only thing he doesn’t have is experience but everyone has to start somewhere. He’s a likeable guy who talks well and that’s a good start. We now have two people with relatively little experience doing probably the two most responsible jobs at the club. The role where experience is really important is Technical Director/DoF - especially when the Head Coach is relatively inexperienced. I'm not saying it won't work and I wish SJW and Schumacher well but being realistic this is a very high risk decision. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 23, 2024 9:21:41 GMT
Assuming we're after Dewsnip as a replacement (who knows though?!), isn't that us falling into the same situation as AN appointing RM? You'd assume he'd be an SS pick. Why do you assume that? My impression from what I've heard is that Dewsnip was one of the problems which made Schumacher interested in the Stoke job. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Feb 23, 2024 9:24:23 GMT
Some people can't see their own arrogance and think they are great at what they do, they like to take credit for this that and the other when it's largely down to other people. The type of people that say I did this, I have done that and forget it's a team effort and forget it's all about WE not me. These people don't realise how disliked they are, they destroy the soul in a place and bring everyone's mood down when they enter a room. If Ricky is one of those then good riddance Yes, one of my favourite idioms, 'There's no i in team'. Anyone going round saying 'I did this... Or I think this... ' when he's talking about things that a team have done, are doing, even if he is head of that team is far too self important. You have to look out for these people in life, especially when looking for jobs. I can't be doing with selfish people and I have turned jobs down rather than work under people like that. You just know it will be a horrible place to work. Alarm bells ring with me when people try to sell themselves rather than the whole group. |
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Post by webbyscfc on Feb 23, 2024 9:24:59 GMT
Maybe to help Schumacher reunite players and staff. If Walters off the pitch is anything like Walters on the pitch then everyone around him will raise their game. Not sure it is DoF's job to motivate the team. However, if RM really was as toxic as people seem to think then maybe having someone in place who supports the manager rather than undermines him may be necessary at this stage of the season. Not sure what SJW can do re.future recruitment if he is only here until May. Perhaps add an extra line to Jared's job description that states he needs to have a metric for character and personality before recommending a player. Your posts are very contradictory. You start by saying that rumours of Martin being toxic are not confirmed (I mean who exactly is going to come out and confirm that’s the case) and then go on to say it seems he is a victim of a witch hunt, but you know nothing, just like no one knows for a fact he was toxic. You then for some bizzare reason seem to think even though Martin may have been toxic, keep him in the position he was but put someone in place to help and advise the manager handle that. Madness! Adding an extra line to Jared’s job description stating he needs to have a metric for character of potential new players 🤣🤣🤣. Job description is rarely that specific and will be part of his wider role of recognising potential players, but here is an issue neither me nor you know. What if he identified players but also passed on information that their personality or attitude has not been the best in the past, but it is Ricky Martin, who approaches clubs for players, speaks to players, negotiates contracts that decided to take a punt on these players even with the advice from Jared? |
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Post by potterpaul on Feb 23, 2024 9:27:34 GMT
Assuming we're after Dewsnip as a replacement (who knows though?!), isn't that us falling into the same situation as AN appointing RM? You'd assume he'd be an SS pick. Why do you assume that? My impression from what I've heard is that Dewsnip was one of the problems which made Schumacher interested in the Stoke job. Now that makes sense 🤔 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2024 9:29:40 GMT
I am still not sure why we got rid of RM. Despite all the noise on here about RM being toxic I have not seen anything that actually confirms this. Interfering in team selection? No evidence. Clash of personalities with SS forcing JC into backing one of them? No evidence. Poor recruitment? Possibly but did it warrant making the change in Feb rather than at end of season? Sacrificial lamb because JC could see the fans had turned on RM (based on nothing more than hearsay and unsubstantiated social media posts). Most probably. I am not saying the decision is not the correct one but it seems to me that RM is the victim of a witch-hunt. Other than the poor recruitment I am not aware of other issues that would warrant making the change. So we knew he was shit but wait until the summer? Thats exactly the mistake we've made with managers in the past. Poor recruitment? possibly? you say, no, its a fact and warrated his sacking in itself regardless of any other antics. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 23, 2024 9:31:47 GMT
I was thinking more of making them feel part of the club not necessarily motivate them. I don't think he will be going in the dressing room on match day to G the team up. Schumacher's job will be to motivate them but their needs to be people around the club to make it feel like it's one big family all with the same goal of helping the club move forward. If players feel like assets rather than part of the club then their will be tension, they will feel they are being used. For a coach to do their job properly they need to be able to create a bond with players to help motivate them to improve, if the players don't feel they are really wanted by the club then it's harder to coach them. Imagine going work feeling like you are only there to be trained up and sold off, it's hardly going to motivate you to do the best for the club is it. Walters coming back shows he is still a part of the Stoke City family even after his playing career has ended. I think that's a good message to send players which apply themselves well. This is my reading of the situation. I don't think SJW is here to do the dry, technical, long term strategy work you would normally expect of a Technical Director and in fact as an interim (which doesn't make any sense for that sort of role anyway) he can't. He's here to get rid of the toxic atmosphere and bring in a feel good factor. And it sounds like that's what is needed. Having said that I think Martin is fast becoming the ultimate scapegoat and being blamed for all the bad things that have happened at the club. His role in transfers in particular is being massively overstated. If the reports about the atmosphere he created are true he had to go but to think this solves all our problems is very naive. Exactly. It makes no sense in appointing an interim technical director, it's a position which only works with a long term view and and any decisions he makes would have to be ripped up again when the new person comes in. It's purely to appease the fans and to give SS some moral support and won't be responsible for any key decisions that a technical director would normally make. He'll be a technical director in name only and with all due respect to Jon he's not really qualified to do the job that's required here anyway. |
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Post by Scouse on Feb 23, 2024 9:34:26 GMT
This , agree re SJW role as an interim appointment he simply can’t take on the full TD / DoF decision making role across the wide variety of departments the post encompasses ..I presume he’ll work with departmental heads to produce the handover documents that the permanent appointment will need ..his role will include supporting SS , rather than being his judge and jury ( part of the DoF full role ) and improving the atmosphere if there is one ..it may include meeting with disgruntled players / agents Rumours of course , but provided RM didn’t get dismissed in effect for creating a bad atmosphere, or interfering where he should have been delegating and letting people get on with their roles ( or dismiss , replace them ) then his dismissal as per the club statement was due to failing his own KPI which was using the budget provided by the board to achieve the boards 1st team league position target ..presumably after the dismissal of AN which he’d have fed his opinion into the board , he’d have been placed on a PIP ( personal Improvement Plan ) by the board , with no improvement , indeed the position worsened, his time ran out PIP? I like it. Do you reckon this is a HR thing. A necessary step as a precursor to sacking?😁 In outside industry , they are indeed used by HR to ultimately build a case to sack yes ..often departmental heads are encouraged or even instructed by HR that they have to have a set number of people on a PIP , even when a department and everyone within it are functioning well .. the academy players in effect are likely to have them ( or an equivalent) |
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 23, 2024 9:39:13 GMT
From what I have read about Jonathan Walters since he retired from football, he has done everything he can to get experience and qualifications for this type of job. He has been on the short lists I believe for a couple of high profile technical director type jobs so there must be something about him. It may be too big for him at the moment but it is only an interim post and if he can help to focus the recruitment team to not only use the data (which is fine and a great help if used properly) but also look at past character of players and not just believe what their agent says then that is a step in the right direction.
He loves the club, that is clear so he has accepted this post to help the club as well as gain experience himself so in three months he can only do good, especially if he can unite the players and staff behind Schumacher.
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 23, 2024 9:50:57 GMT
Good post. I like Walters and the times I’ve heard him speak he’s been excellent and knows the club too. The only thing he doesn’t have is experience but everyone has to start somewhere. He’s a likeable guy who talks well and that’s a good start. We now have two people with relatively little experience doing probably the two most responsible jobs at the club. The role where experience is really important is Technical Director/DoF - especially when the Head Coach is relatively inexperienced. I'm not saying it won't work and I wish SJW and Schumacher well but being realistic this is a very high risk decision. How is appointing Jon Walters for 3 months very high risk? The club has stated that the recruitment process has started. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 23, 2024 9:51:34 GMT
Well he definitely failed his five pillars shite. Positive culture my arse. That alone was enough to get rid imo Some people can't see their own arrogance and think they are great at what they do, they like to take credit for this that and the other when it's largely down to other people. The type of people that say I did this, I have done that and forget it's a team effort and forget it's all about WE not me. These people don't realise how disliked they are, they destroy the soul in a place and bring everyone's mood down when they enter a room. If Ricky is one of those then good riddance Until I got to the final sentence I thought you were talking about this message board. |
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Post by Caddick988 on Feb 23, 2024 9:52:09 GMT
He’s at Leicester I believe I heard him on the radio a bit ago and I think he overseas/arranges for the youth players to get loaned out for experience and monitors their progress. I've just been listening to a podcast with the Brighton CEO and he mentions that is the exact role David Weir had before he became their Technical Director. Interesting listening as he mentions that they'd highlighted him as the natural successor to Dan Ashworth and it was ideal because he was already working for the club. So could definitely see Huth going down a similar path, I for one would love to see him back at Stoke in some capacity. |
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Post by stokesupporter on Feb 23, 2024 9:53:45 GMT
This was a good move by the board. We have tried to swap managers with no apparent result. And if the rumours about RM are even partly true was a no brainer to get rid. It might to have some effect already this season but the real difference can be seen next season earliest. Still this had to be done now.
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Post by mamathestriker on Feb 23, 2024 9:58:03 GMT
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Post by hotterpotter on Feb 23, 2024 9:58:21 GMT
What was the original title of this thread? Ricky Martin - Transfer Window Debrief -> Ricky Martin - Technical Director -> Ricky Martin Technical Director **Sacked** (Percy) -> Ricky Martin - Sacked: Jonathan Walters IN (Interim) Cheers! |
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