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Post by thedeadlyshart on Oct 8, 2023 16:05:41 GMT
plenty of other clubs fire theirs in less than 12 months. I can’t remember the last Watford manager that lasted an entire calendar year. If they underfpwrform they don’t deserve to keep their job. If we're looking at the current league table as a guide to success ( which is ridiculous but it's what is happening) then Watford are on the same points as us right next to us in the table so they're hardly a fine example of how it's done why is league position ridiculous to look at? Isn’t that a good measure for how well a team is performing? And if Watford keep their currently underperforming manager they will continue to be at the bottom of the table. That’s the point.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 8, 2023 16:07:27 GMT
I think the fans have been very tolerable of Neil to be honest but I don’t think it’s going to last much longer. Has any other Stoke manager in recent times had an easier ride? Are you forgetting MON he was awful and no idea what he was doing, subs always came late or not at all yet one game where AN does it and he gets slaughtered for it. This season alone AN has had to change the personnel and tactics by half time on 4 occasions, 2 of which inexplicably involved changes after 30 odd minutes. He likes making pro-active substitutions due to his own tactical errors from what I can see. I don't think he's winning on the in game management front as it stands, or by many other metrics including the main one points per game...................
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 16:08:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by vidigal7 on Oct 8, 2023 16:08:02 GMT
Of course the supporters - sorry the Oatcake keyboard warriors know best - Surely I never though we would "gel" with the turnaround in players - The Board have given AN a job to do and hes doing it - results in the short term are the sacrifice for later gains we-ve only gone 11 games - We've been the victims of lost poimts due to incompetant officials, injuries, loss of fom new comers from all over Europe. Some people on here need to take a chill pill or just get a life not happy unless you are criticising, when knowing nothing compared to the Managenment TEam or the plyaers who are all behind AN. Just let them get on with it It's not just this season though. We've managed to get 56 points from 51 league games. That is absolutely appalling. We are sleepwalking in to another bottom-half table finish. Out of the 56 games you mention we have played only 11 of them with 17 new players. Take into consideration the time to acclimatise and gel, the incompetent Refs, the injuries and I'd say all things considered we're par for the course of our situation
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 16:10:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by vidigal7 on Oct 8, 2023 16:10:37 GMT
If we're looking at the current league table as a guide to success ( which is ridiculous but it's what is happening) then Watford are on the same points as us right next to us in the table so they're hardly a fine example of how it's done why is league position ridiculous to look at? Isn’t that a good measure for how well a team is performing? And if Watford keep their currently underperforming manager they will continue to be at the bottom of the table. That’s the point. How do you know Watford are not languishing where they are because of how badly they're run and the fact they keep sacking managers? It is ridiculous to look at the table at this stage unless you're aspirations are automatic promotion, we're 7 points off the play-offs and there is 35 games to play, the league isn't even taking shape yet. We could easily win a few games and we're right in the mix at this stage
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 16:10:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by northernstokie on Oct 8, 2023 16:10:56 GMT
I'm all for giving the manager a chance and expected indifferent results with a new team but by now he should of got a tune out of them. The injurys don't help but he decided he had enough players to cover
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Post by prudhoesnose on Oct 8, 2023 16:16:07 GMT
One of his main problems, I think, is he likes showing off his big brain energy by out foxing other teams tactically. Obviously this usually this fails.
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 16:18:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by thedeadlyshart on Oct 8, 2023 16:18:49 GMT
why is league position ridiculous to look at? Isn’t that a good measure for how well a team is performing? And if Watford keep their currently underperforming manager they will continue to be at the bottom of the table. That’s the point. How do you know Watford are not languishing where they are because of how badly they're run and the fact they keep sacking managers? It is ridiculous to look at the table at this stage unless you're aspirations are automatic promotion, we're 7 points off the play-offs and there is 35 games to play, the league isn't even taking shape yet. We could easily win a few games and we're right in the mix at this stage well, they’ve finished above us for the past I don’t know how many seasons. And we are two points above the relegation zone, with zero teams between us and 22nd, while there are 14 teams between us and 6th. Based on the past few games, do you really think we are going to turn this around if we persist with Neil as our manager?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2023 16:20:41 GMT
It's not just this season though. We've managed to get 56 points from 51 league games. That is absolutely appalling. We are sleepwalking in to another bottom-half table finish. Out of the 56 games you mention we have played only 11 of them with 17 new players. Take into consideration the time to acclimatise and gel, the incompetent Refs, the injuries and I'd say all things considered we're par for the course of our situation If you're accepting that dross then it really shows how low our standards have dropped with sections of our fanbase.
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 16:20:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by vidigal7 on Oct 8, 2023 16:20:51 GMT
Club pressed reset, that means reset. Whole different group of players, only a fool changes when we've been hampered and are a couple of wins away from being in the mix I am someone who only wants change if it benefits our fortunes. In Neil’s defence (or lack of on the the pitch at least!), yes he has suffered unprecedented injuries and there is a new squad to bed in. You can argue that selling Tymon and Brown may well have been decisions taken out of his hands. I don’t believe he has publically endorsed their departures, so I could have been inclined to think he’s just trying to gaffer tape the situation we find ourselves in as best we can. What has really left me unconvinced by Neil is his bizarre tinkering, and Southampton was the peak of frustration. Rather than starting the 4-3-3 that beat Bristol City against the odds, he inexplicably went diamond against Southampton! If it was down to injuries then he’s worthy of time to prove his first team when all fit. But I don’t see the signs of a man who has confidence and assurance in his own tactics. I understand what you are saying about tinkering, being honest it was frustrating me aswell. I do think though with a lack of pre-season and with so many new players he's looking at a few different options. I do think though that it's cost us in the short term for sure because how are the players supposed to settle to surroundings if they're changing approach every game. I do think though as things start to settle, injured players return, they become familiar with what Neil wants to do and their new team mates, then results and performances will naturally improve. For me it's a process we have to go through before we can judge what direction we are going in
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 16:24:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by vidigal7 on Oct 8, 2023 16:24:25 GMT
Out of the 56 games you mention we have played only 11 of them with 17 new players. Take into consideration the time to acclimatise and gel, the incompetent Refs, the injuries and I'd say all things considered we're par for the course of our situation If you're accepting that dross then it really shows how low our standards have dropped with sections of our fanbase. I'm not accepting dross I'm just aware of the size of the task in hand and prepared to give the benefit of the doubt well everything settles down. When we get key injured players back and 'if' it's obviously a mess, I've got no problem telling it how it is. The reasons for a slow start are fully legitimate, it's not an excuse
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 16:34:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Oct 8, 2023 16:34:50 GMT
Of course the supporters - sorry the Oatcake keyboard warriors know best - Surely I never though we would "gel" with the turnaround in players - The Board have given AN a job to do and hes doing it - results in the short term are the sacrifice for later gains we-ve only gone 11 games - We've been the victims of lost poimts due to incompetant officials, injuries, loss of fom new comers from all over Europe. Some people on here need to take a chill pill or just get a life not happy unless you are criticising, when knowing nothing compared to the Managenment TEam or the plyaers who are all behind AN. Just let them get on with it By keyboard warriors I take it you mean those who disagree with your opinion He's been given a job, that bit is correct , you need to get a life if you point out the facts, the results aren't acceptable and we're in the bottom 3 and falling ???? Not sure how pointing out the actual stats are are worthy of that logic. You can accept the horrendous form over the last 12 months, your choice of course, many simply think that being so close to the bottom and losing so many games has to stop no matter how many lame excuses you chuck at it. As for the officials comments, that's complete nonsense. The odd decision against us but all teams will no doubt argue the same. Not the reason he's done so poorly in 50 games
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 16:50:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2023 16:50:51 GMT
I don't think he's going anywhere in this break but if form and results don't change quickly after the break he'll almost certainly be gone by the next international break.
The Sunderland game I think is a must win. I can't see any points from Leeds and a resurgent Boro. Cardiff at home is another must win and then Coventry away before the next international break.
I think a minimum of 6 points from those 5 games and much improved performances otherwise he's gone.
After that break we have a real decent run of fixtures right up to Christmas. We need some momentum going into that run or a new man at the helm.
I still hope he can turn it around but I'm not optimistic.
I look at our team on paper and despite the glaring weaknesses at CB and striker we should be doing much much better. I think the injuries are the only thing keeping him in a job.
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Post by FrankButcher on Oct 8, 2023 16:52:13 GMT
Someone said on PNG last night that when they met the manager before the start of the season he told them to judge him at the end of september so here we are judging him like he told us too!
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 8, 2023 16:56:42 GMT
Of course the supporters - sorry the Oatcake keyboard warriors know best - Surely I never though we would "gel" with the turnaround in players - The Board have given AN a job to do and hes doing it - results in the short term are the sacrifice for later gains we-ve only gone 11 games - We've been the victims of lost poimts due to incompetant officials, injuries, loss of fom new comers from all over Europe. Some people on here need to take a chill pill or just get a life not happy unless you are criticising, when knowing nothing compared to the Managenment TEam or the plyaers who are all behind AN. Just let them get on with it We’ve been absolutely appalling, for what seems like forever while Neil has been in charge. It lays squarely with him I’m afraid
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2023 17:09:25 GMT
If you're accepting that dross then it really shows how low our standards have dropped with sections of our fanbase. I'm not accepting dross I'm just aware of the size of the task in hand and prepared to give the benefit of the doubt well everything settles down. When we get key injured players back and 'if' it's obviously a mess, I've got no problem telling it how it is. The reasons for a slow start are fully legitimate, it's not an excuse The simple fact is we have been fucking awful in his time in charge. We are worse in defence, midfield and attack. I'm struggling as the weeks go by to defend Neil. The fact that Mad Nath did a better job than him says it all.
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Post by Squeekster on Oct 8, 2023 18:50:40 GMT
It's not just this season though. We've managed to get 56 points from 51 league games. That is absolutely appalling. We are sleepwalking in to another bottom-half table finish. Out of the 56 games you mention we have played only 11 of them with 17 new players. Take into consideration the time to acclimatise and gel, the incompetent Refs, the injuries and I'd say all things considered we're par for the course of our situation Yes and of those 17 although I think it's 18 at least 5 should of been defenders, the manager started the season with fook all at the back.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Oct 8, 2023 19:58:44 GMT
He’s a fucking idiot and a complete charlatan - sack him now or else……
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 20:55:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by Beloved Monkfish on Oct 8, 2023 20:55:53 GMT
I am someone who only wants change if it benefits our fortunes. In Neil’s defence (or lack of on the the pitch at least!), yes he has suffered unprecedented injuries and there is a new squad to bed in. You can argue that selling Tymon and Brown may well have been decisions taken out of his hands. I don’t believe he has publically endorsed their departures, so I could have been inclined to think he’s just trying to gaffer tape the situation we find ourselves in as best we can. What has really left me unconvinced by Neil is his bizarre tinkering, and Southampton was the peak of frustration. Rather than starting the 4-3-3 that beat Bristol City against the odds, he inexplicably went diamond against Southampton! If it was down to injuries then he’s worthy of time to prove his first team when all fit. But I don’t see the signs of a man who has confidence and assurance in his own tactics. I understand what you are saying about tinkering, being honest it was frustrating me aswell. I do think though with a lack of pre-season and with so many new players he's looking at a few different options. I do think though that it's cost us in the short term for sure because how are the players supposed to settle to surroundings if they're changing approach every game. I do think though as things start to settle, injured players return, they become familiar with what Neil wants to do and their new team mates, then results and performances will naturally improve. For me it's a process we have to go through before we can judge what direction we are going in Alex Neil doesn't know what he wants to do so how will the players? It's this obsession with what the opposition are doing whilst seemingly not thinking at all about what we're doing which is the reason we look so utterly woeful every week. As soon as we go behind (obviously going against his master plan to counter the opposition), our players look absolutely clueless because the gameplay is out of the window and we have no style or identity whatsoever. He doesn't try to get us to play in a certain way. It should be obvious but nobody's got any idea what we're trying to do.
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 21:08:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by bagnallboothen on Oct 8, 2023 21:08:28 GMT
WE WANT SLAP HEAD OUT WE WANT SLAP HEAD OUT
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 21:39:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 8, 2023 21:39:40 GMT
WE WANT SLAP HEAD OUT WE WANT SLAP HEAD OUT Yes both of them please.
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Alex Neil
Oct 8, 2023 21:59:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2023 21:59:22 GMT
WE WANT SLAP HEAD OUT WE WANT SLAP HEAD OUT Yes both of them please. lol
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Post by baconburger on Oct 9, 2023 6:34:49 GMT
If we couldn't sign a CB in the whole of the Summer, who believes that we will manage to do so in January. We have to just hope that Vidigal comes back and continues to score goals for us. Regarding our best players being missing with injuries, There is a whole thread advising AN on his best team.The real point is that AN doesn't know his best team. Does anyone believe that the International Break will enable him to get everything sorted? We signed 2 CB’s in the summer one of them on loan. What would you have done refused to sign any other players until you got one more CB?
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Post by vidigal7 on Oct 9, 2023 6:54:02 GMT
I understand what you are saying about tinkering, being honest it was frustrating me aswell. I do think though with a lack of pre-season and with so many new players he's looking at a few different options. I do think though that it's cost us in the short term for sure because how are the players supposed to settle to surroundings if they're changing approach every game. I do think though as things start to settle, injured players return, they become familiar with what Neil wants to do and their new team mates, then results and performances will naturally improve. For me it's a process we have to go through before we can judge what direction we are going in Alex Neil doesn't know what he wants to do so how will the players? It's this obsession with what the opposition are doing whilst seemingly not thinking at all about what we're doing which is the reason we look so utterly woeful every week. As soon as we go behind (obviously going against his master plan to counter the opposition), our players look absolutely clueless because the gameplay is out of the window and we have no style or identity whatsoever. He doesn't try to get us to play in a certain way. It should be obvious but nobody's got any idea what we're trying to do. It's international break now mate not really bothered, certainly arn't stressing for the next two weeks haha its not my job too, my energy needs to be spent where the income comes from. It is what it is atm I think Coatsey will give him until Christmas given all things considered. End of the day with all the injuries and all of the players that have had to settle we're 7 points off a play-off spot with 35 games to play, I'd say we're par for the course. Personally I think results, formations and performances will naturally improve and settle as the season goes on
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 9, 2023 7:29:13 GMT
Are you forgetting MON he was awful and no idea what he was doing, subs always came late or not at all yet one game where AN does it and he gets slaughtered for it. This season alone AN has had to change the personnel and tactics by half time on 4 occasions, 2 of which inexplicably involved changes after 30 odd minutes. He likes making pro-active substitutions due to his own tactical errors from what I can see. I don't think he's winning on the in game management front as it stands, or by many other metrics including the main one points per game................... I'd rather he change it, realising it's wrong than stick to it regardless, there's nothing wrong with a manager willing to make the changes early if it's needed. No manager is going to get it right 100% of the time.....................................
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 9, 2023 7:32:20 GMT
This season alone AN has had to change the personnel and tactics by half time on 4 occasions, 2 of which inexplicably involved changes after 30 odd minutes. He likes making pro-active substitutions due to his own tactical errors from what I can see. I don't think he's winning on the in game management front as it stands, or by many other metrics including the main one points per game................... I'd rather he change it, realising it's wrong than stick to it regardless, there's nothing wrong with a manager willing to make the changes early if it's needed. No manager is going to get it right 100% of the time..................................... He doesn’t get it right the majority of the time though…
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 9, 2023 7:34:24 GMT
I'd rather he change it, realising it's wrong than stick to it regardless, there's nothing wrong with a manager willing to make the changes early if it's needed. No manager is going to get it right 100% of the time..................................... He doesn’t get it right the majority of the time though… Fair comment based on the results but I don't think it's been that bad tactics wise when he's had more of the players available, hopefully we can get back to setting up how we want once the majority are back, if it's still the same then someone needs to make a decision.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 9, 2023 7:36:45 GMT
He doesn’t get it right the majority of the time though… Fair comment based on the results but I don't think it's been that bad tactics wise when he's had more of the players available, hopefully we can get back to setting up how we want once the majority are back, if it's still the same then someone needs to make a decision. He seems obsessed with Johnson which is first issue and doesn’t look like changing. After that nothing really matters.
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Post by wilcopotter on Oct 9, 2023 8:00:23 GMT
Fair comment based on the results but I don't think it's been that bad tactics wise when he's had more of the players available, hopefully we can get back to setting up how we want once the majority are back, if it's still the same then someone needs to make a decision. He seems obsessed with Johnson which is first issue and doesn’t look like changing. After that nothing really matters. ………anywhere the wind blows.
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Post by marwood on Oct 9, 2023 8:12:14 GMT
I would judge a good 'manager'by several measurements
1 -immediately coming in with fresh pair of eyes and attitude, enabling 'new manager bounce' (failed) 2 -on arrival, assessing what squad he has immediately to hand, dropping a few previous manager favourites, tweaking system to suit, enabling better results (failed) 3 -winning the fans over (failed apart from when he pulled a pint in a pub once) 4 -having the awareness to realise when a game has been set up wrong and changing in game tactics (failed on the whole)
Based on the above, I am not confident that when the mythical 'gel' appears (or when the injuries clear up) he is the right man for the role
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Post by idle on Oct 9, 2023 8:25:19 GMT
4 -having the awareness to realise when a game has been set up wrong and changing in game tactics (failed on the whole) On the contrary, he seemes good at changing the tactics when we underperform. Setting the team up before the games on the other hand, he's been rubbish.
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