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Post by RedandWhite90 on Oct 7, 2023 19:42:56 GMT
I’m not in the out camp yet. Still needs time with this new squad. Anywhere near the bottom in January and fair enough he can go. How bad would it need to be, before you get in the out camp? Last year was atrocious, this year is even worse.
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Alex Neil
Oct 7, 2023 19:48:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 19:48:44 GMT
We will see .
I honestly think he has given up .
Actually not today ! But how often does he say ...we dominated possession, we were the better team in many ways, but nobody remembers that, they only remember we lost .
It's as if he knows, he says stuff on the training ground and that may cause us to have 60 even 70 % possession, but it doesn't cause us to win the game.
He must have twigged by now, that he can change this and that at Stoke , but he can't change the fact that we keep losing.
I should think he knows, the end is near .
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 7, 2023 19:51:40 GMT
He must be getting twitchy. I think this is the first point where I wouldn't be massively surprised if the axe was brought out, especially with the natural break point of the international break.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 7, 2023 19:52:34 GMT
Neil Martin and Jared have got us relegated no doubt in my mind it’s a sunderland till I die catastrophe season written all over it , so any appointment needs to reflect that , no point hiring red Adair then sacking him in May , we need to think past disaster btwce ourselves for 30 plus games dominated by failure and rebuild from the mess they have created So when you say any new signing needs to reflect that, do you mean someone who has to keep us up this season or someone who can build us up from next season? There’s no -oint in my view appointing someone with the sole intent of keeping us up that ship has sailed it needs someone prepared to live with likely relegation and rebuild which means someone incredibly resilient ahd who the board can stick by ( I’ve no idea who )
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Alex Neil
Oct 7, 2023 19:53:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 7, 2023 19:53:48 GMT
I’ve been unable to watch and follow really today but judging by what I’ve read on here he just has to go doesn’t he. Bad luck with injuries etc, I do get that. But by completely neglecting the defence (or not far off) he’s really backed himself into a corner. 18 players in and we can’t field 4 defenders after 11 games Time to go Alex, but what next? Rinse and repeat🤷🏻♂️
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 7, 2023 19:54:19 GMT
Neil Martin and Jared have got us relegated no doubt in my mind it’s a sunderland till I die catastrophe season written all over it , so any appointment needs to reflect that , no point hiring red Adair then sacking him in May , we need to think past disaster btwce ourselves for 30 plus games dominated by failure and rebuild from the mess they have created No one in the history of football has ever been relegated after 11 games. The writings bern in the wall mamy times see derby in the premier league , sunderlamd in the until I die season , Forest green in league one last year it’s a inexorable decline and trajectory we’ve established. .
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Post by bagnallboothen on Oct 7, 2023 19:55:28 GMT
So when you say any new signing needs to reflect that, do you mean someone who has to keep us up this season or someone who can build us up from next season? There’s no -oint in my view appointing someone with the sole intent of keeping us up that ship has sailed it needs someone prepared to live with likely relegation and rebuild which means someone incredibly resilient ahd who the board can stick by ( I’ve no idea who ) You've said we're going down at this stage of the last 5 seasons, stop being a clown. We're not doing very well, but there is easily enough there to work with for someone who isn't incompetent in the modern game.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 7, 2023 19:58:00 GMT
There’s no -oint in my view appointing someone with the sole intent of keeping us up that ship has sailed it needs someone prepared to live with likely relegation and rebuild which means someone incredibly resilient ahd who the board can stick by ( I’ve no idea who ) You've said we're going down at this stage of the last 5 seasons, stop being a clown. We're not doing very well, but there is easily enough there to work with for someone who isn't incompetent in the modern game. He’s predicted relegation every season for the last 15 seasons. He’s been right once.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 7, 2023 19:59:18 GMT
There’s no -oint in my view appointing someone with the sole intent of keeping us up that ship has sailed it needs someone prepared to live with likely relegation and rebuild which means someone incredibly resilient ahd who the board can stick by ( I’ve no idea who ) You've said we're going down at this stage of the last 5 seasons, stop being a clown. We're not doing very well, but there is easily enough there to work with for someone who isn't incompetent in the modern game. I haven’t actually I’ve bern saying 55 points and hsvent bern wrong but this is a omni shambles . O restarted by Marin , conducted by Jared in a bromance with Neil whose judgement clearly went out of the window blinded by lust .
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mr
Youth Player
Posts: 440
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Alex Neil
Oct 7, 2023 20:06:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by mr on Oct 7, 2023 20:06:48 GMT
I’m not in the out camp yet. Still needs time with this new squad. Anywhere near the bottom in January and fair enough he can go. How bad would it need to be, before you get in the out camp? Last year was atrocious, this year is even worse. Anywhere near the bottom in January. Otherwise it’s just rinse and repeat. New manager, not his players, give him time, a couple of transfer windows. Before you know it you’re 3 years on. Last year was atrocious but they didn’t sack him at the end of the season so they’ve got to give him time now.
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Post by emretezzy on Oct 7, 2023 20:11:36 GMT
Neil Martin and Jared have got us relegated no doubt in my mind it’s a sunderland till I die catastrophe season written all over it , so any appointment needs to reflect that , no point hiring red Adair then sacking him in May , we need to think past disaster btwce ourselves for 30 plus games dominated by failure and rebuild from the mess they have created I'll tell you now, 1 billion percent the signings are absolutely fine, to above average. We need to appoint a progressive manager to compliment the progressive transfer policy. He genuinely doesn't know what he's doing.
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Post by pushon on Oct 7, 2023 20:11:47 GMT
Do you know much about him mate? Not a lot to be fair. To be at a club like Bayern you have to have something about you but it's a big jump from that to the bottom of the Championship. I know he started off under Ragnick at Leipzig and was assistant to Hassenhutl at Saints, so you can guess the type of football he'll be into. Where is Bayern anyway? We need his clear and decisive 'problem solving' expertise at desperate times like this.🤪
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Alex Neil
Oct 7, 2023 20:12:35 GMT
via mobile
mr likes this
Post by Pricey on Oct 7, 2023 20:12:35 GMT
Last year was atrocious but they didn’t sack him at the end of the season so they’ve got to give him time now. Did you also say that about MON last August?
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Alex Neil
Oct 7, 2023 20:14:27 GMT
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Post by citynickscfc on Oct 7, 2023 20:14:27 GMT
How bad would it need to be, before you get in the out camp? Last year was atrocious, this year is even worse. Anywhere near the bottom in January. Otherwise it’s just rinse and repeat. New manager, not his players, give him time, a couple of transfer windows. Before you know it you’re 3 years on. Last year was atrocious but they didn’t sack him at the end of the season so they’ve got to give him time now. Are you talking about Nathan Jones or Alex Niel? Because I can't tell. Perhaps I've gone back in time and we have arrived at the same existential crisis, and I actually know the answer! His name is Michael o'niell and he also plays boring turgid football, although you would never have guessed it after his first few months. What a brilliant few months that was. Isn't it sad that Niel has had 1 good month in 12. 🤦♂️
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 20:52:01 GMT
Neil Martin and Jared have got us relegated no doubt in my mind it’s a sunderland till I die catastrophe season written all over it , so any appointment needs to reflect that , no point hiring red Adair then sacking him in May , we need to think past disaster btwce ourselves for 30 plus games dominated by failure and rebuild from the mess they have created No one in the history of football has ever been relegated after 11 games. Benji can't contain his excitement for our impending doom. He's getting a bit ahead of himself. I've never known a Stoke fan who takes so much delight from our misery.
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Post by thisisouryear on Oct 7, 2023 20:53:34 GMT
You've said we're going down at this stage of the last 5 seasons, stop being a clown. We're not doing very well, but there is easily enough there to work with for someone who isn't incompetent in the modern game. He’s predicted relegation every season for the last 15 seasons. He’s been right once. So true, I can't take his opinions seriously he's ridiculously negative about everything all the time when it comes to Stoke. We have some very good players but it's obvious we don't have the depth in the squad we need. I'm convinced we have more good players than bad but the opposite has been true for the last few seasons. We are desperate for another window.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Oct 7, 2023 21:23:38 GMT
If he was sacked tomorrow I wouldnt give a shiny shite. Hes been an absolute disaster and I have little confidence things will improve
Sadly i think the owners will do nowt until its too late
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Post by BuzzB on Oct 7, 2023 22:40:13 GMT
Why are Dublin and Martin getting pelters on here? Martin deals with off the field stuff, Dublin has found some great talent, we are just beginning to see the results. Juhno Junior Habs McNally are starting to show it, the only two dubious ( and use that term loosely) are Rose and Wes. All down to AN this shit show but even he has a case with injuries. Since losing Vidigal and Maae they fell like flies one by one, he can't control that. The bigger picture including last season though looks horrendous.
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Post by callas12 on Oct 7, 2023 22:44:48 GMT
If he was sacked tomorrow I wouldnt give a shiny shite. Hes been an absolute disaster and I have little confidence things will improve Sadly i think the owners will do nowt until its too late Absolutely, not like they've panic'd into making necessary changes in the past is it?! They won't know what all the fuss is about on here! 🫣😤
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Alex Neil
Oct 7, 2023 22:50:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by potter25 on Oct 7, 2023 22:50:34 GMT
I wonder (and I’ve thought this for a while now). If Neil could turn the clock back 12 months or so would he come or stay in Sunderland knowing what he knows now? 🧐
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Alex Neil
Oct 7, 2023 22:52:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 7, 2023 22:52:23 GMT
I wonder (and I’ve thought this for a while now). If Neil could turn the clock back 12 months or so would he come or stay in Sunderland knowing what he knows now? 🧐 He should have stayed there.
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Alex Neil
Oct 7, 2023 23:05:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by potter25 on Oct 7, 2023 23:05:43 GMT
I wonder (and I’ve thought this for a while now). If Neil could turn the clock back 12 months or so would he come or stay in Sunderland knowing what he knows now? 🧐 He should have stayed there. Probably so Bar one really good spell in March (which kept us up really) he’s been pretty poor
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Oct 7, 2023 23:11:06 GMT
I think he’s done for.
When things start rumbling in the media it’s normally curtains.
He’s been an unmitigated disaster for this football club.
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Alex Neil
Oct 7, 2023 23:47:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 23:47:33 GMT
Neil Martin and Jared have got us relegated no doubt in my mind it’s a sunderland till I die catastrophe season written all over it , so any appointment needs to reflect that , no point hiring red Adair then sacking him in May , we need to think past disaster btwce ourselves for 30 plus games dominated by failure and rebuild from the mess they have created I'll tell you now, 1 billion percent the signings are absolutely fine, to above average. We need to appoint a progressive manager to compliment the progressive transfer policy. He genuinely doesn't know what he's doing. I think for a long time, AN's big bluff was he is deep tactical thinker about the game, and sets his team up differently every game to deploy different tactics against different opponents. Now , 50 , 60 games in , Stoke fans are coming round to...let's be honest mate , you keep setting the team up differently, because you don't know what to do for the best . You are just endlessly changing personnel, formations and tactics in the hope of stumbling across something that works . But by the 50 th re jig , people are inevitably going to ask...if you don't know what you want, how are the players meant to know ?
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Post by gawa on Oct 8, 2023 0:27:49 GMT
Aye I know that and I didn't pretend otherwise either? I made it clear that my views may have been bias. MON is the only manager to leave this club in a better position than when he came in for a good while. And that's a fact. MON saved us from almost certain relegation, but did little after that. I have every sympathy with MON, he inherited a poor bunch of player left by previous managers, he gave youngsters a chance, he had no money, he had players on long contracts no one else wanted, the pandemic, etc. But at the end of the day MON lost his way and created nothing and left a poor bunch of players himself. Neil has cleaned them out and assembled a bunch of more talented players who seem to want to try, but Neil seems incapable of "getting a tune" out of them. I appreciate your assessment but I don't agree that I did little else aside from avoiding relegation. Your second paragraph lists all the constraints he had to deal with and despite that he kept the ship steady, and finished with an improved position and points total every season. He also had much worse injury record than AN to deal with. My point was that he's the only manager to leave the club in a better state than he got it recently, and I still stand by that. Take a look at this from 2014/15 onwards - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stoke_City_F.C._seasonsFrom 2014/15 onwards. Every season, lower in the table, less goals scored, more goals conceded, less points, number of wins decreased, top goal scorer tally got lower. The only seasons all of those improved? The seasons Michael O'Neill was in charge. And most of the other managers didn't have the same injury issues or financial constraints to deal with. That doesn't mean he was perfect. The transfer window of summer 2022 with Aden Flint, Tarique Fosu, Gavin Kilkenny and Dwight Gayle were some very poor signings. I don't know what went on with Alfie Doughty too, don't feel he got enough chances. I think though we were progressing at a slow and steady pace and we would have finished last season much better under MONs stewardship. Maybe if he wasn't sacked he'd have made a few other signings which may have changed things. Maybe when players such as Powell, souttar, Laurent, Clarke, tymon returned from early season injuries things would have improved. I think he got a better tune out of the majority of players that have featured under him and Alex Neil. And I wonder if the likes of Liam Delap, Harry Clarke and Will Smallbone may have flourished more under MON too. I'm not sure if Delap even played under MON? And then young Taylor and DWP I think would have got alot more game time and hopefully developed. In his two full seasons he had us in the playoffs in December. So that shows he was capable of maintaing playoff form across around a 20 game period. I think in his first season we actually had playoff form for a similar period too to climb away from the relegation zone. So the issue for me wasn't that he wasn't capable of playoff form. Just wasn't able to maintain it over 40 games. But then in 20/21 we lost tyrese and around 3 gks which completely changed our playstyle. We went from this strong attacking unit with brown and Campbell playing of Fletcher, to becoming a fragile side trying to protect young bursik from facing any shots. Similarly 21/22 we were in the playoffs in December again and we lose Souttar on a long term injury and also have a covid injury crisis too. Pretty sure Davies and Baath were also let go at this point mostly due to their excessive wages and again this impacted our spine and depth hugely. But we still ended up with more points than the season before so it was progress. I can't excuse the summer window of 22. But u do think MON would have got more out of the players and that we'd have finished the season stronger than we did under AN. Had MON had the FFP constraints slightly lessened and benefited from the brexit international transfer changes, along with the fees which came in for players he developed to spend. Then who knows maybe he'd have also brought in some of those more talented players too. But the fact remains. He left the club in a much better position than it was when he arrived and that's something not alot of recent managers can say.
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Post by independent on Oct 8, 2023 1:39:59 GMT
MON averaged 1.33PPG. AN at the moment is on .91PPG this season after spending money and signing 17 of his own players.His record last season was very poor as well. To match MON, AN would need another 52 points this season from his remaining 35 games. Does anyone think that he can manage that? And remember he has an better quality of players to do this with than MON had, and doesn't have to worry about FFP. Personally I think that most people would prefer if AN could get his act together and the club could begin to move forward again and save us from another upheaval that may or may not work. Surely we can give him till Christmas to see if things improve. It seems unlikely that we would be cast adrift from safety by then and with 24 games still to play and a January window, we would have ample time to redress the situation even if we were in the bottom 3 at that time.
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Post by onionman on Oct 8, 2023 3:09:31 GMT
MON saved us from almost certain relegation, but did little after that. I have every sympathy with MON, he inherited a poor bunch of player left by previous managers, he gave youngsters a chance, he had no money, he had players on long contracts no one else wanted, the pandemic, etc. But at the end of the day MON lost his way and created nothing and left a poor bunch of players himself. Neil has cleaned them out and assembled a bunch of more talented players who seem to want to try, but Neil seems incapable of "getting a tune" out of them. I appreciate your assessment but I don't agree that I did little else aside from avoiding relegation. Your second paragraph lists all the constraints he had to deal with and despite that he kept the ship steady, and finished with an improved position and points total every season. He also had much worse injury record than AN to deal with. My point was that he's the only manager to leave the club in a better state than he got it recently, and I still stand by that. Take a look at this from 2014/15 onwards - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stoke_City_F.C._seasonsFrom 2014/15 onwards. Every season, lower in the table, less goals scored, more goals conceded, less points, number of wins decreased, top goal scorer tally got lower. The only seasons all of those improved? The seasons Michael O'Neill was in charge. And most of the other managers didn't have the same injury issues or financial constraints to deal with. That doesn't mean he was perfect. The transfer window of summer 2022 with Aden Flint, Tarique Fosu, Gavin Kilkenny and Dwight Gayle were some very poor signings. I don't know what went on with Alfie Doughty too, don't feel he got enough chances. I think though we were progressing at a slow and steady pace and we would have finished last season much better under MONs stewardship. Maybe if he wasn't sacked he'd have made a few other signings which may have changed things. Maybe when players such as Powell, souttar, Laurent, Clarke, tymon returned from early season injuries things would have improved. I think he got a better tune out of the majority of players that have featured under him and Alex Neil. And I wonder if the likes of Liam Delap, Harry Clarke and Will Smallbone may have flourished more under MON too. I'm not sure if Delap even played under MON? And then young Taylor and DWP I think would have got alot more game time and hopefully developed. In his two full seasons he had us in the playoffs in December. So that shows he was capable of maintaing playoff form across around a 20 game period. I think in his first season we actually had playoff form for a similar period too to climb away from the relegation zone. So the issue for me wasn't that he wasn't capable of playoff form. Just wasn't able to maintain it over 40 games. But then in 20/21 we lost tyrese and around 3 gks which completely changed our playstyle. We went from this strong attacking unit with brown and Campbell playing of Fletcher, to becoming a fragile side trying to protect young bursik from facing any shots. Similarly 21/22 we were in the playoffs in December again and we lose Souttar on a long term injury and also have a covid injury crisis too. Pretty sure Davies and Baath were also let go at this point mostly due to their excessive wages and again this impacted our spine and depth hugely. But we still ended up with more points than the season before so it was progress. I can't excuse the summer window of 22. But u do think MON would have got more out of the players and that we'd have finished the season stronger than we did under AN. Had MON had the FFP constraints slightly lessened and benefited from the brexit international transfer changes, along with the fees which came in for players he developed to spend. Then who knows maybe he'd have also brought in some of those more talented players too. But the fact remains. He left the club in a much better position than it was when he arrived and that's something not alot of recent managers can say. Looking at your first sentence, are you actually Michael O’Neill?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2023 4:08:33 GMT
Gawa’s emergence on the board all makes sense now.
Fwiw Michael Gawa, I largely agree with your self-assessment summary of MON.
I still think we were right to say thankyou and goodbye (at the end of 21/22 though) it’s just a shame AN is looking like it might end in tears. But who knows maybe he’ll keep us reasonably competitive up to new year and buy himself enough time to fix the glaring defensive frailties. We definitely have a core of excellent young players now. But a manager who hasn’t given any of us reason to believe he’s the right man. Its just so fucking tedious.
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Post by satoshi on Oct 8, 2023 4:32:37 GMT
Anywhere near the bottom in January. Otherwise it’s just rinse and repeat. New manager, not his players, give him time, a couple of transfer windows. Before you know it you’re 3 years on. Last year was atrocious but they didn’t sack him at the end of the season so they’ve got to give him time now. Are you talking about Nathan Jones or Alex Niel? Because I can't tell. Perhaps I've gone back in time and we have arrived at the same existential crisis, and I actually know the answer! His name is Michael o'niell and he also plays boring turgid football, although you would never have guessed it after his first few months. What a brilliant few months that was. Isn't it sad that Niel has had 1 good month in 12. 🤦♂️ Who the fuck is nile
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Post by citynickscfc on Oct 8, 2023 4:38:14 GMT
Are you talking about Nathan Jones or Alex Niel? Because I can't tell. Perhaps I've gone back in time and we have arrived at the same existential crisis, and I actually know the answer! His name is Michael o'niell and he also plays boring turgid football, although you would never have guessed it after his first few months. What a brilliant few months that was. Isn't it sad that Niel has had 1 good month in 12. 🤦♂️ Who the fuck is nile Sorry I was taking about Nole
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