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Post by mrcoke on Sept 22, 2023 13:05:12 GMT
Gayle should genuinely never play for us again. Only a complete fool uses him this season. It's a long time since Gayle was a regular goal scorer. All footballers careers come to an end and he may have "lost it", but ..... I don't think he has been used the way he was elsewhere. At West Brom he was in a striker partnership with Rodriguez and both scored heavily. I know 4-4-2 is out of fashion but I should like to see a pair of strikers instead of one struggling on his own.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2023 13:30:11 GMT
Gayle should genuinely never play for us again. Only a complete fool uses him this season. It's a long time since Gayle was a regular goal scorer. All footballers careers come to an end and he may have "lost it", but ..... I don't think he has been used the way he was elsewhere. At West Brom he was in a striker partnership with Rodriguez and both scored heavily. I know 4-4-2 is out of fashion but I should like to see a pair of strikers instead of one struggling on his own. Alternatively we could just not bother with him and use players who fit the system better and aren't knackered?
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Post by a on Sept 22, 2023 13:34:57 GMT
I do think we need 2 up top to be at least given a go. I’m not for chopping and changing every week but we don’t seem capable of scoring enough, having said that we can’t defend either so Christ knows where we go.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 22, 2023 13:37:16 GMT
It's a long time since Gayle was a regular goal scorer. All footballers careers come to an end and he may have "lost it", but ..... I don't think he has been used the way he was elsewhere. At West Brom he was in a striker partnership with Rodriguez and both scored heavily. I know 4-4-2 is out of fashion but I should like to see a pair of strikers instead of one struggling on his own. Alternatively we could just not bother with him and use players who fit the system better and aren't knackered? We have a system?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2023 13:42:57 GMT
I do think we need 2 up top to be at least given a go. I’m not for chopping and changing every week but we don’t seem capable of scoring enough, having said that we can’t defend either so Christ knows where we go. The jury's out on that I think? We put 10 past Rotherham, we had plenty of chances the other night. Granted they're two of the worst teams in the division but it still seems premature to say we're not capable?
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 13:44:37 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 22, 2023 13:44:37 GMT
For me bringing Wes and Gayle on last night , has a lot to do with the manager feeling the pressure of poor results and to some extent poor performances (though not last night ) Gayle for me is finished at this level and Wes doesn’t offer the movement up front our build-up play deserves…. But they both have experience and Neil is getting desperate for results In a perfect world the manager would , I’m sure play Lowe… Trezgal, (when fit) and Sol sidebe, after all these lads are the future of our club not players like Gayle (age) or Campbell (contract), however despite what he says in the media I’m sure he’s feeling the pressure that’s why Thompson is nailed on to play Sunday in place of Pearson . This is what worries me, why not bring Lowe on, do you think Pulis or Macari would have given a toss? They would do what they thought needed to be done to get a result. This is his team in every aspect, he has to show what it takes to sort things out. Pulis would have played with 10 men rather than an academy player.
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 13:46:12 GMT
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 22, 2023 13:46:12 GMT
This is what worries me, why not bring Lowe on, do you think Pulis or Macari would have given a toss? They would do what they thought needed to be done to get a result. This is his team in every aspect, he has to show what it takes to sort things out. Pulis would have played with 10 men rather than an academy player. True but maybe they simply weren't good enough. We've hardly had a conveyor belt if talent from the academy
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 13:49:34 GMT
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Post by a on Sept 22, 2023 13:49:34 GMT
I do think we need 2 up top to be at least given a go. I’m not for chopping and changing every week but we don’t seem capable of scoring enough, having said that we can’t defend either so Christ knows where we go. The jury's out on that I think? We put 10 past Rotherham, we had plenty of chances the other night. Granted they're two of the worst teams in the division but it still seems premature to say we're not capable? It’s strange isn’t it? Perhaps it shows that against certain opposition it works but others not? Or Rotherham are just that bad 😂 I know we scored a couple but honestly we still look a bit toothless. Lots of possession without much output.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2023 13:59:08 GMT
The jury's out on that I think? We put 10 past Rotherham, we had plenty of chances the other night. Granted they're two of the worst teams in the division but it still seems premature to say we're not capable? It’s strange isn’t it? Perhaps it shows that against certain opposition it works but others not? Or Rotherham are just that bad 😂 I know we scored a couple but honestly we still look a bit toothless. Lots of possession without much output. I didn't think we looked toothless - to me that suggests we didn't threaten at all. We had the ball in the net four times, we got into their box regularly, it was decision making more than anything else that was the issue, and that's fixable. Sunday will give us a better indication I think as they're a decent side.
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 14:05:49 GMT
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Post by a on Sept 22, 2023 14:05:49 GMT
It’s strange isn’t it? Perhaps it shows that against certain opposition it works but others not? Or Rotherham are just that bad 😂 I know we scored a couple but honestly we still look a bit toothless. Lots of possession without much output. I didn't think we looked toothless - to me that suggests we didn't threaten at all. We had the ball in the net four times, we got into their box regularly, it was decision making more than anything else that was the issue, and that's fixable. Sunday will give us a better indication I think as they're a decent side. I don’t just mean the other night, overall our goal scoring isn’t that of the sum of the players, that combined with our -2GD isn’t great reading. I’m keeping the faith but hoping we can start to look a threat going forward and more assured at the back. Hoping Sunday shows green shoots but we’ll see
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 14:09:08 GMT
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Post by roylandstoke on Sept 22, 2023 14:09:08 GMT
It's a long time since Gayle was a regular goal scorer. All footballers careers come to an end and he may have "lost it", but ..... I don't think he has been used the way he was elsewhere. At West Brom he was in a striker partnership with Rodriguez and both scored heavily. I know 4-4-2 is out of fashion but I should like to see a pair of strikers instead of one struggling on his own. Alternatively we could just not bother with him and use players who fit the system better and aren't knackered? Got to ask: what is the system?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2023 14:11:22 GMT
Alternatively we could just not bother with him and use players who fit the system better and aren't knackered? Got to ask: what is the system? It's alternated between 4-3-3 and 3-4-1-1 I thought? Neither suits Gayle. Not saying it's working well, but that seems to be what we're going for.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 22, 2023 14:12:14 GMT
I didn't think we looked toothless - to me that suggests we didn't threaten at all. We had the ball in the net four times, we got into their box regularly, it was decision making more than anything else that was the issue, and that's fixable. Sunday will give us a better indication I think as they're a decent side. I don’t just mean the other night, overall our goal scoring isn’t that of the sum of the players, that combined with our -2GD isn’t great reading. I’m keeping the faith but hoping we can start to look a threat going forward and more assured at the back. Hoping Sunday shows green shoots but we’ll see Even in the Millwall and Norwich game we had chances we really should've put away. I'm not worried about us going forward at all. I can't say the same about our defending.
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 14:14:49 GMT
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Post by roylandstoke on Sept 22, 2023 14:14:49 GMT
Got to ask: what is the system? It's alternated between 4-3-3 and 3-4-1-1 I thought? Neither suits Gayle. Not saying it's working well, but that seems to be what we're going for. You’ve spotted more organisation than me. It looks more like make it up as you go along. Given we have decent players, maybe just making it up would get better results.
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 14:17:29 GMT
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 22, 2023 14:17:29 GMT
It's alternated between 4-3-3 and 3-4-1-1 I thought? Neither suits Gayle. Not saying it's working well, but that seems to be what we're going for. You’ve spotted more organisation than me. It looks more like make it up as you go along. Given we have decent players, maybe just making it up would get better results. Spin the bottle our system to Me . After 20 mins, give it another spin and hope
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 22, 2023 15:22:10 GMT
It's alternated between 4-3-3 and 3-4-1-1 I thought? Neither suits Gayle. Not saying it's working well, but that seems to be what we're going for. You’ve spotted more organisation than me. It looks more like make it up as you go along. Given we have decent players, maybe just making it up would get better results. We tend to either play 4-3-3 or a 5-3-2 (or 3-5-2 if you like). A friend who supports Preston mentioned that AN was very keen on changing system depending on the opposition. I often get the sense that he is the same here. It would be nice if we could nail down a system that suits US best, rather than adapting constantly to what the opposition do.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Sept 22, 2023 15:36:01 GMT
He’s a mediocre journeyman domestic manager who’s done little but spend money and fuck around with a so called strategy when in fact he’s making it up as he goes along one week to the next - so a pretty good match for the club and what it’s become
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 15:45:19 GMT
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a likes this
Post by thornestein on Sept 22, 2023 15:45:19 GMT
I do think we need 2 up top to be at least given a go. I’m not for chopping and changing every week but we don’t seem capable of scoring enough, having said that we can’t defend either so Christ knows where we go. 1 CF shouldn’t mean a lone player , the others behind and wide should be there alongside during attacks but it’s not happening for some reason, i honestly think it’s Wesley wouldn’t look so bad with proper support , i’d prefer better up top yes but we don’t have that yet , Tezgel and Lowe may be the answer but not yet
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 15:46:56 GMT
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Post by thornestein on Sept 22, 2023 15:46:56 GMT
The jury's out on that I think? We put 10 past Rotherham, we had plenty of chances the other night. Granted they're two of the worst teams in the division but it still seems premature to say we're not capable? It’s strange isn’t it? Perhaps it shows that against certain opposition it works but others not? Or Rotherham are just that bad 😂 I know we scored a couple but honestly we still look a bit toothless. Lots of possession without much output. that was because of the final ball though, that and campbell been too greedy or offside
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 22:02:41 GMT
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Post by a on Sept 22, 2023 22:02:41 GMT
I do think we need 2 up top to be at least given a go. I’m not for chopping and changing every week but we don’t seem capable of scoring enough, having said that we can’t defend either so Christ knows where we go. 1 CF shouldn’t mean a lone player , the others behind and wide should be there alongside during attacks but it’s not happening for some reason, i honestly think it’s Wesley wouldn’t look so bad with proper support , i’d prefer better up top yes but we don’t have that yet , Tezgel and Lowe may be the answer but not yet I’ve faith in Wesley, I think he looks up for it and he clearly has pedigree and isn’t old. Injury aside if he’s fit and in the proper set up he could and should be mustard in this league
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Post by a on Sept 22, 2023 22:04:00 GMT
It’s strange isn’t it? Perhaps it shows that against certain opposition it works but others not? Or Rotherham are just that bad 😂 I know we scored a couple but honestly we still look a bit toothless. Lots of possession without much output. that was because of the final ball though, that and campbell been too greedy or offside I’m losing patience with Campbell to be honest, I think he believes his own hype to an extent. I think if he really put the effort in we’d see so much more from him, he’s really disappointing for me
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 22:06:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2023 22:06:29 GMT
1 CF shouldn’t mean a lone player , the others behind and wide should be there alongside during attacks but it’s not happening for some reason, i honestly think it’s Wesley wouldn’t look so bad with proper support , i’d prefer better up top yes but we don’t have that yet , Tezgel and Lowe may be the answer but not yet I’ve faith in Wesley, I think he looks up for it and he clearly has pedigree and isn’t old. Injury aside if he’s fit and in the proper set up he could and should be mustard in this league He's looked anything but to me so far. I'm no fan of Campbell, but I thought we looked more dangerous the other night with him up front instead of Wesley.
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Alex Neil
Sept 22, 2023 22:31:50 GMT
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Post by a on Sept 22, 2023 22:31:50 GMT
I’ve faith in Wesley, I think he looks up for it and he clearly has pedigree and isn’t old. Injury aside if he’s fit and in the proper set up he could and should be mustard in this league He's looked anything but to me so far. I'm no fan of Campbell, but I thought we looked more dangerous the other night with him up front instead of Wesley. Maybe mate, it’s all opinions obviously but I dont think Wesley is there purely for goals, I do get that his holdup play hasn’t been much to shout about but that will bear fruit once we get a system that works. I think he could be a big player in that system. Again it’s opinion and I could be hugely wrong 😂 that’s why we love the game!
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Alex Neil
Sept 23, 2023 7:06:22 GMT
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Post by baconburger on Sept 23, 2023 7:06:22 GMT
I don’t just mean the other night, overall our goal scoring isn’t that of the sum of the players, that combined with our -2GD isn’t great reading. I’m keeping the faith but hoping we can start to look a threat going forward and more assured at the back. Hoping Sunday shows green shoots but we’ll see Even in the Millwall and Norwich game we had chances we really should've put away. I'm not worried about us going forward at all. I can't say the same about our defending. The test of time says our goal scoring is something to be far more concerned about than our defending. Someone posted stats since AN’s been here the other day 12 clean sheets and 20 failed to score. We simply have to be focused on doing something about those failure to scores even if it means conceding a few more.
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Alex Neil
Sept 23, 2023 7:29:56 GMT
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Post by pavel on Sept 23, 2023 7:29:56 GMT
Even in the Millwall and Norwich game we had chances we really should've put away. I'm not worried about us going forward at all. I can't say the same about our defending. The test of time says our goal scoring is something to be far more concerned about than our defending. Someone posted stats since AN’s been here the other day 12 clean sheets and 20 failed to score. We simply have to be focused on doing something about those failure to scores even if it means conceding a few more. But is that down to the players or the manager, the set up, tactics or coaching. These are always the big unknowns that we are not fully privy to.
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Alex Neil
Sept 23, 2023 15:22:39 GMT
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Post by baconburger on Sept 23, 2023 15:22:39 GMT
The test of time says our goal scoring is something to be far more concerned about than our defending. Someone posted stats since AN’s been here the other day 12 clean sheets and 20 failed to score. We simply have to be focused on doing something about those failure to scores even if it means conceding a few more. But is that down to the players or the manager, the set up, tactics or coaching. These are always the big unknowns that we are not fully privy to. If it’s down to the manager the last 5/6 must have been an equally wank bunch. We didn’t hit 50 in any of or 10 premier league seasons and Stoke 0 has been an all too familiar score line in all our seasons since in the championship. Even when we’ve had spells where we’ve scored more freely early MON and peak AN we’ve still been shut out far far to regularly. I’d far rather we got that monkey off our backs than keeping a few extra clean sheets. IMO teams that don’t score goals don’t really deserve much success and in the modern era seldom get any. I’d be sorely tempted to use the points system to make it even less likely for teams that fail to score to take anything from the game by maybe a penalty shootout at the end of a goalless draw for a solitary point and I’d only do that to stop contrived results, I’d really like both to come away with nothing. The game needs ridding of the keep what we start with mentality.
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Alex Neil
Sept 23, 2023 15:53:01 GMT
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 23, 2023 15:53:01 GMT
Even in the Millwall and Norwich game we had chances we really should've put away. I'm not worried about us going forward at all. I can't say the same about our defending. The test of time says our goal scoring is something to be far more concerned about than our defending. Someone posted stats since AN’s been here the other day 12 clean sheets and 20 failed to score. We simply have to be focused on doing something about those failure to scores even if it means conceding a few more. You don't lose over 20 games in a calendar year by being unlucky every other week. Creating chances and failing to score isn't unlucky.
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Alex Neil
Sept 23, 2023 16:56:32 GMT
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Post by pavel on Sept 23, 2023 16:56:32 GMT
But is that down to the players or the manager, the set up, tactics or coaching. These are always the big unknowns that we are not fully privy to. If it’s down to the manager the last 5/6 must have been an equally wank bunch. We didn’t hit 50 in any of or 10 premier league seasons and Stoke 0 has been an all too familiar score line in all our seasons since in the championship. Even when we’ve had spells where we’ve scored more freely early MON and peak AN we’ve still been shut out far far to regularly. I’d far rather we got that monkey off our backs than keeping a few extra clean sheets. IMO teams that don’t score goals don’t really deserve much success and in the modern era seldom get any. I’d be sorely tempted to use the points system to make it even less likely for teams that fail to score to take anything from the game by maybe a penalty shootout at the end of a goalless draw for a solitary point and I’d only do that to stop contrived results, I’d really like both to come away with nothing. The game needs ridding of the keep what we start with mentality. Our managers in the Championship have been pretty poor on the whole, as for the Premier league its a totally different ball game and can’t be compared. What I’m saying though is we can’t keep blaming the players, they all can’t be useless, so is it the coaching, set up, tactics, managers or all of it, we just don’t know but we have had a reset throughout the club this time and a huge turnover of players and coaches since being in the championship but we’re still getting the basics wrong in all areas of the pitch. It’s really puzzling and hard to understand how we can’t break free of it. Perhaps it’s a lack of identity or the continual chopping and changing under all the managers we’ve had since we came down, including the last season in the premiership. We seem good at identifying the problems but not able to sort them. Will it change this season, I hope so but I wouldn’t bet my life on it.
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Alex Neil
Sept 23, 2023 19:33:58 GMT
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Post by thornestein on Sept 23, 2023 19:33:58 GMT
If it’s down to the manager the last 5/6 must have been an equally wank bunch. We didn’t hit 50 in any of or 10 premier league seasons and Stoke 0 has been an all too familiar score line in all our seasons since in the championship. Even when we’ve had spells where we’ve scored more freely early MON and peak AN we’ve still been shut out far far to regularly. I’d far rather we got that monkey off our backs than keeping a few extra clean sheets. IMO teams that don’t score goals don’t really deserve much success and in the modern era seldom get any. I’d be sorely tempted to use the points system to make it even less likely for teams that fail to score to take anything from the game by maybe a penalty shootout at the end of a goalless draw for a solitary point and I’d only do that to stop contrived results, I’d really like both to come away with nothing. The game needs ridding of the keep what we start with mentality. Our managers in the Championship have been pretty poor on the whole, as for the Premier league its a totally different ball game and can’t be compared. What I’m saying though is we can’t keep blaming the players, they all can’t be useless, so is it the coaching, set up, tactics, managers or all of it, we just don’t know but we have had a reset throughout the club this time and a huge turnover of players and coaches since being in the championship but we’re still getting the basics wrong in all areas of the pitch. It’s really puzzling and hard to understand how we can’t break free of it. Perhaps it’s a lack of identity or the continual chopping and changing under all the managers we’ve had since we came down, including the last season in the premiership. We seem good at identifying the problems but not able to sort them. Will it change this season, I hope so but I wouldn’t bet my life on it. i believe the next months games are make or break for Neil , a few good results will turn a lot of fans his way , but poor results will be the end for him
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Post by onepara on Sept 23, 2023 20:00:49 GMT
He says in the Sentinel that they don't really practice set plays/corners, as such. Maybe that's why we're no good at defending them!
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