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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 14, 2023 8:29:43 GMT
You're absolutely right. John Coates has hung his hat on AN so we've got to hope it all works out. I don’t think he is absolutely right, I certainly don’t think we’d have ended up with more points under MON if we’d stuck with him. I also think Marwood is being rather uncharitable in his assessment. Norwich - even if the framing is correct it was a long time ago, it’s possible, probable he’s learned from his experience there and it’s made him a better manager than he was at the time. Preston - ‘where he actually had to do some work’ as Marwood put it consistently had one of the lower budgets in the league, so it can be argued that Neil largely had them over performing during his time there. Sunderland - Neil joined them at a time when their form had nosedived and they had won just one out of 7 games and had been on the end of a decent number of thrashing’s under Johnson. Neil put together an unbeaten 16 game run and got them promoted, describing that turnaround as ‘bumble their way over the line’ seems absurd really. Yeah to varying degrees he did a good job with all those clubs. I wanted him when we appointed Rowett for that reason and was pleased when we did eventually appoint him. That's why I was so disappointed with him not being able to improve us at all last season. I think he'll do a decent job over all but the excuses really are over for him at this point and it's sink or swim. |
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Alex Neil
Sept 14, 2023 8:29:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 14, 2023 8:29:48 GMT
Only reason stoke are seen as a big job by our own is because our owners are rich. Reality is our home crowds are small to average in the grand scheme of things
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Alex Neil
Sept 14, 2023 8:29:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 14, 2023 8:29:50 GMT
Sunderland - Neil joined them at a time when their form had nosedived and they had won just one out of 7 games and had been on the end of a decent number of thrashing’s under Johnson. Neil put together an unbeaten 16 game run and got them promoted, describing that turnaround as ‘bumble their way over the line’ seems absurd really. Couldn't agree more, and with the pressure of very large home crowds demanding results after 4 seasons in league 1, shows he can handle the pressure of a big job. People say Stoke is a big job, it's not as big or as much pressure as 40k expecting results, he delivered where others failed, simple as that Which doesn't have any bearing on what he does at Stoke. Clutching at straws again |
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Alex Neil
Sept 14, 2023 8:33:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 14, 2023 8:33:07 GMT
Couldn't agree more, and with the pressure of very large home crowds demanding results after 4 seasons in league 1, shows he can handle the pressure of a big job. People say Stoke is a big job, it's not as big or as much pressure as 40k expecting results, he delivered where others failed, simple as that Which doesn't have any bearing on what he does at Stoke. Clutching at straws again You've made your conclusion on a season with a dire squad put together badly, by a few different underqualified people whilst under ffp restrictions. The squad was a joke hence the reason for major changes. Nobody would have polished that turd it was long in the making. Half of them knew they were not going to be here this summer but Neil can't say it how he sees it because they completely down tools and then we and he are screwed. I'll bet you he was quietly relieved to see the window open and contracts expire more than most of us |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 14, 2023 9:31:53 GMT
Only reason stoke are seen as a big job by our own is because our owners are rich. Reality is our home crowds are small to average in the grand scheme of things Top 20 in the last ten years |
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 14, 2023 9:39:11 GMT
Only reason stoke are seen as a big job by our own is because our owners are rich. Reality is our home crowds are small to average in the grand scheme of things Top 20 in the last ten years Doh 🤣 facts getting in the way of a good post again🤣 |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 14, 2023 9:43:46 GMT
Which doesn't have any bearing on what he does at Stoke. Clutching at straws again You've made your conclusion on a season with a dire squad put together badly, by a few different underqualified people whilst under ffp restrictions. The squad was a joke hence the reason for major changes. Nobody would have polished that turd it was long in the making. Half of them knew they were not going to be here this summer but Neil can't say it how he sees it because they completely down tools and then we and he are screwed. I'll bet you he was quietly relieved to see the window open and contracts expire more than most of us Again blaming the players. The squad that was accumulating more points per game than under Neil and that included his own additions? |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 14, 2023 9:45:08 GMT
You've made your conclusion on a season with a dire squad put together badly, by a few different underqualified people whilst under ffp restrictions. The squad was a joke hence the reason for major changes. Nobody would have polished that turd it was long in the making. Half of them knew they were not going to be here this summer but Neil can't say it how he sees it because they completely down tools and then we and he are screwed. I'll bet you he was quietly relieved to see the window open and contracts expire more than most of us Again blaming the players. The squad that was accumulating more points per game than under Neil and that included his own additions? Talk me through that squad Muff? Who did you rate? Pick me a decent side from it? |
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Alex Neil
Sept 14, 2023 9:53:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 14, 2023 9:53:55 GMT
Again blaming the players. The squad that was accumulating more points per game than under Neil and that included his own additions? Talk me through that squad Muff? Who did you rate? Pick me a decent side from it? I never said I rated or didn't rate any of them. MON inherited a bad bunch but in his time had a better points return than Neil had in a year, explain that one , he was sacked . Sweeping 46 odd games under the carpet to back up a manager is ridiculous. He was the manager and did a poor job, beyond poor. Warnock went to Huddersfield, got results straight away, shows what a good manager can do. West Brom were below us and ended up challenging for play offs with the same squad almost , again shows what a good manager can do without the triple encyclopedia of excuses. Excuses that are still being made a year later. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 14, 2023 9:58:50 GMT
Talk me through that squad Muff? Who did you rate? Pick me a decent side from it? I never said I rated or didn't rate any of them. MON inherited a bad bunch but in his time had a better points return than Neil had in a year, explain that one , he was sacked . Sweeping 46 odd games under the carpet to back up a manager is ridiculous. He was the manager and did a poor job, beyond poor. Warnock went to Huddersfield, got results straight away, shows what a good manager can do. West Brom were below us and ended up challenging for play offs with the same squad almost , again shows what a good manager can do without the triple encyclopedia of excuses. Excuses that are still being made a year later. I've never once said AN shouldn't have done better than he did but equally 'blaming the players' to a degree is also fair as he inherited a Frankenstein's monster of a squad that was neither fish nor foul and full of dross. That doesn't excuse Neil or some of the weird things he did, and it particularly doesn't excuse the collapse after the purple patch when he'd been able to make some signings of his own, but it is a factor at the same time. |
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Alex Neil
Sept 14, 2023 10:03:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 14, 2023 10:03:49 GMT
I never said I rated or didn't rate any of them. MON inherited a bad bunch but in his time had a better points return than Neil had in a year, explain that one , he was sacked . Sweeping 46 odd games under the carpet to back up a manager is ridiculous. He was the manager and did a poor job, beyond poor. Warnock went to Huddersfield, got results straight away, shows what a good manager can do. West Brom were below us and ended up challenging for play offs with the same squad almost , again shows what a good manager can do without the triple encyclopedia of excuses. Excuses that are still being made a year later. I've never once said AN shouldn't have done better than he did but equally 'blaming the players' to a degree is also fair as he inherited a Frankenstein's monster of a squad that was neither fish nor foul and full of dross. That doesn't excuse Neil or some of the weird things he did, and it particularly doesn't excuse the collapse after the purple patch when he'd been able to make some signings of his own, but it is a factor at the same time. There wasn't a collapse after the purple patch, it came between months of bland, poor football and results both before and after it. He knew what he was inheriting, added a few players and produced an unacceptable level of results. We have the gel excuses now, that can only run for so long before a new one has to be created. He's been a disastrous manager so far as far as the one thing that matters is concerned, results and excuses aside, he's the only one responsible. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 14, 2023 10:14:13 GMT
I've never once said AN shouldn't have done better than he did but equally 'blaming the players' to a degree is also fair as he inherited a Frankenstein's monster of a squad that was neither fish nor foul and full of dross. That doesn't excuse Neil or some of the weird things he did, and it particularly doesn't excuse the collapse after the purple patch when he'd been able to make some signings of his own, but it is a factor at the same time. There wasn't a collapse after the purple patch, it came between months of bland, poor football and results both before and after it. He knew what he was inheriting, added a few players and produced an unacceptable level of results. We have the gel excuses now, that can only run for so long before a new one has to be created. He's been a disastrous manager so far as far as the one thing that matters is concerned, results and excuses aside, he's the only one responsible. There was a collapse as we had an all too brief spell of playing good stuff. That's what the collapse was from. We had months of bland football before that run as well. Both things can be true. I think 'disastrous' is strong but he's been a disappointment and if he doesn't deliver a significant improvement now he can have no excuses. |
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Alex Neil
Sept 14, 2023 10:14:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 14, 2023 10:14:31 GMT
You've made your conclusion on a season with a dire squad put together badly, by a few different underqualified people whilst under ffp restrictions. The squad was a joke hence the reason for major changes. Nobody would have polished that turd it was long in the making. Half of them knew they were not going to be here this summer but Neil can't say it how he sees it because they completely down tools and then we and he are screwed. I'll bet you he was quietly relieved to see the window open and contracts expire more than most of us Again blaming the players. The squad that was accumulating more points per game than under Neil and that included his own additions? If you're making a case for O Neil I'll make a case for him aswell, he's used to achieving with a turd, he was Northern Ireland manager, he only knows turds and turds would have been the future aswell. He didn't get mid table though, the football was crap, boring and slow, funnily enough like Northern Ireland |
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Post by vidigal7 on Sept 14, 2023 10:26:49 GMT
Only reason stoke are seen as a big job by our own is because our owners are rich. Reality is our home crowds are small to average in the grand scheme of things Top 20 in the last ten years Sunderland double ours. We're not a big club, sorry we're just not. We'd like to think we are because we're stoke fans, we've spent ten years in the top division in the past fifty years, we've also spent a lot in the third tier and second tier. We've won Jack shit apart from the autoglass trophy, twice. We're an attractive proposition because we're rich not because we're a big club. The only place we're a big club is in Stoke-on-Trent |
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Post by upthefud on Sept 14, 2023 10:31:03 GMT
I like Neil and I think he’ll get it right
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 14, 2023 10:34:47 GMT
Top 20 in the last ten years Sunderland double ours. We're not a big club, sorry we're just not. We'd like to think we are because we're stoke fans, we've spent ten years in the top division in the past fifty years, we've also spent a lot in the third tier and second tier. We've won Jack shit apart from the autoglass trophy, twice. We're an attractive proposition because we're rich not because we're a big club. The only place we're a big club is in Stoke-on-Trent So why did Neil come to us? |
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Alex Neil
Sept 14, 2023 10:41:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by vidigal7 on Sept 14, 2023 10:41:22 GMT
Sunderland double ours. We're not a big club, sorry we're just not. We'd like to think we are because we're stoke fans, we've spent ten years in the top division in the past fifty years, we've also spent a lot in the third tier and second tier. We've won Jack shit apart from the autoglass trophy, twice. We're an attractive proposition because we're rich not because we're a big club. The only place we're a big club is in Stoke-on-Trent So why did Neil come to us? Because if he can get us up he'll get backed, 'because we're rich'. Also because he liked the vision that was proposed to him about being able to restructure the squad. I thought it was common knowledge there was a bit of a disagreement at Sunderland about how they should proceed in the market, club vision. I'm not going to hide the fact he's had a big pay rise, anybody in their right mind in any line of work would be swayed to move companies by a large pay rise for the same job. He's come here knowing he can restructure this club to his own design this past summer and you're doubting him as soon as he's been allowed to do it without letting it prove how successful it was |
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Post by baconburger on Sept 14, 2023 10:44:29 GMT
There wasn't a collapse after the purple patch, it came between months of bland, poor football and results both before and after it. He knew what he was inheriting, added a few players and produced an unacceptable level of results. We have the gel excuses now, that can only run for so long before a new one has to be created. He's been a disastrous manager so far as far as the one thing that matters is concerned, results and excuses aside, he's the only one responsible. There was a collapse as we had an all too brief spell of playing good stuff. That's what the collapse was from. We had months of bland football before that run as well. Both things can be true. I think 'disastrous' is strong but he's been a disappointment and if he doesn't deliver a significant improvement now he can have no excuses. We were playing the best football in the division for a few weeks. I'll take that as something to aspire to on a more consistent basis everyday over someone who came in and achieved 0.2PPG (don't ask me why I chose that figure to represent tangible but not significant progress) above what MON had achieved. |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Sept 14, 2023 10:46:58 GMT
So why did Neil come to us? Because if he can get us up he'll get backed, 'because we're rich'. Also because he liked the vision that was proposed to him about being able to restructure the squad. I thought it was common knowledge there was a bit of a disagreement at Sunderland about how they should proceed in the market, club vision. I'm not going to hide the fact he's had a big pay rise, anybody in their right mind in any line of work would be swayed to move companies by a large pay rise for the same job. He's come here knowing he can restructure this club to his own design this past summer and you're doubting him as soon as he's been allowed to do it without letting it prove how successful it was Absolutely spot on. He's going to do very well here. |
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 14, 2023 10:49:02 GMT
So why did Neil come to us? Because if he can get us up he'll get backed, 'because we're rich'. Also because he liked the vision that was proposed to him about being able to restructure the squad. I thought it was common knowledge there was a bit of a disagreement at Sunderland about how they should proceed in the market, club vision. I'm not going to hide the fact he's had a big pay rise, anybody in their right mind in any line of work would be swayed to move companies by a large pay rise for the same job. He's come here knowing he can restructure this club to his own design this past summer and you're doubting him as soon as he's been allowed to do it without letting it prove how successful it was He's come here to triple his money, end of. He needs to deliver a promotion challenge this season. You'll be making the same excuses for him this time next year if he fails. |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Sept 14, 2023 10:55:50 GMT
Because if he can get us up he'll get backed, 'because we're rich'. Also because he liked the vision that was proposed to him about being able to restructure the squad. I thought it was common knowledge there was a bit of a disagreement at Sunderland about how they should proceed in the market, club vision. I'm not going to hide the fact he's had a big pay rise, anybody in their right mind in any line of work would be swayed to move companies by a large pay rise for the same job. He's come here knowing he can restructure this club to his own design this past summer and you're doubting him as soon as he's been allowed to do it without letting it prove how successful it was He's come here to triple his money, end of. He needs to deliver a promotion challenge this season. You'll be making the same excuses for him this time next year if he fails. Maybe I'm completely wrong here but it seems to me that you want him to fail. A promotion challenge would be an unbelievable achievement, given that we have a brand new squad, who have never played together. I don't think the likes of Pep would be able to do that. Just support the team and enjoy the ride. I honestly believe that Neil will get us promoted next season. |
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Post by spoton on Sept 14, 2023 10:59:02 GMT
Top 20 in the last ten years Sunderland double ours. We're not a big club, sorry we're just not. We'd like to think we are because we're stoke fans, we've spent ten years in the top division in the past fifty years, we've also spent a lot in the third tier and second tier. We've won Jack shit apart from the autoglass trophy, twice. We're an attractive proposition because we're rich not because we're a big club. The only place we're a big club is in Stoke-on-Trent totally totally agree, we are a very small club trying to compete in a area where we have top premier clubs only a few miles away, its the same argument what is a big club, is it fan base, is it size of stadium, is it history, is it what the club has achieved, everyone will have a different take on it. My personal view is fan base and potential to expand that base easy way to measure it is season ticket sales and how many on the waiting list |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 14, 2023 10:59:28 GMT
He's come here to triple his money, end of. He needs to deliver a promotion challenge this season. You'll be making the same excuses for him this time next year if he fails. Maybe I'm completely wrong here but it seems to me that you want him to fail. A promotion challenge would be an unbelievable achievement, given that we have a brand new squad, who have never played together. I don't think the likes of Pep would be able to do that. Just support the team and enjoy the ride. I honestly believe that Neil will get us promoted next season. There are plenty on here that want him to fail for sure and I often wonder why some follow the club🙄it’s bizzare |
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Post by baconburger on Sept 14, 2023 10:59:41 GMT
Because if he can get us up he'll get backed, 'because we're rich'. Also because he liked the vision that was proposed to him about being able to restructure the squad. I thought it was common knowledge there was a bit of a disagreement at Sunderland about how they should proceed in the market, club vision. I'm not going to hide the fact he's had a big pay rise, anybody in their right mind in any line of work would be swayed to move companies by a large pay rise for the same job. He's come here knowing he can restructure this club to his own design this past summer and you're doubting him as soon as he's been allowed to do it without letting it prove how successful it was He's come here to triple his money, end of. He needs to deliver a promotion challenge this season. You'll be making the same excuses for him this time next year if he fails. I don't see him being sacked without a promotion challenge this season. Improved results mainly at home, some of the longer term signings showing clear signs of being good business. Will IMO see him given the opportunity to carry on building. I wouldn't call it excuses he's still circa £10M in the black on player trading. |
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 14, 2023 11:04:13 GMT
He's come here to triple his money, end of. He needs to deliver a promotion challenge this season. You'll be making the same excuses for him this time next year if he fails. Maybe I'm completely wrong here but it seems to me that you want him to fail. A promotion challenge would be an unbelievable achievement, given that we have a brand new squad, who have never played together. I don't think the likes of Pep would be able to do that. Just support the team and enjoy the ride. I honestly believe that Neil will get us promoted next season. Absolutely not want him to fail at all. All i've done is question his record which I think is bang average. HE's been given every opportunity to succeed - tripled his money, brought in his mates, signed a truck load of footballers.... I think he should be delivering far sooner than others. |
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 14, 2023 11:09:03 GMT
Maybe I'm completely wrong here but it seems to me that you want him to fail. A promotion challenge would be an unbelievable achievement, given that we have a brand new squad, who have never played together. I don't think the likes of Pep would be able to do that. Just support the team and enjoy the ride. I honestly believe that Neil will get us promoted next season. There are plenty on here that want him to fail for sure and I often wonder why some follow the club🙄it’s bizzare Total BS |
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Alex Neil
Sept 14, 2023 11:11:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 14, 2023 11:11:48 GMT
There are plenty on here that want him to fail for sure and I often wonder why some follow the club🙄it’s bizzare Total BS It certainly is not and you know it.Certain posters disappear for a while when results come and they’ll do exactly the same again with a few wins. |
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Post by vidigal7 on Sept 14, 2023 11:11:55 GMT
He's come here to triple his money, end of. He needs to deliver a promotion challenge this season. You'll be making the same excuses for him this time next year if he fails. I don't see him being sacked without a promotion challenge this season. Improved results mainly at home, some of the longer term signings showing clear signs of being good business. Will IMO see him given the opportunity to carry on building. I wouldn't call it excuses he's still circa £10M in the black on player trading. I think a majority of fans are realistic and if we see clear improvement in the football, the quality of player and results over the season along with much improved final league position it will have people eagerly awaiting the summer business. Anything else is self sabotage |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2023 11:16:59 GMT
Nobody wants Alex Neil or any other manager to fail. With our history a failure means a high percentage chance of the boy with the trainset chucking it out of the window again and trying to get a piece of concrete to go round the track.
There is a stark difference between wanting him to fail and just plainly not liking the man.
I dare say a fair few are in the latter camp and very, very few if not none in the former.
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Post by baconburger on Sept 14, 2023 11:17:39 GMT
I don't see him being sacked without a promotion challenge this season. Improved results mainly at home, some of the longer term signings showing clear signs of being good business. Will IMO see him given the opportunity to carry on building. I wouldn't call it excuses he's still circa £10M in the black on player trading. I think a majority of fans are realistic and if we see clear improvement in the football, the quality of player and results over the season along with much improved final league position it will have people eagerly awaiting the summer business. Anything else is self sabotage I don't believe that. I don't think people expressing negative opinions makes any difference to outcomes. I hope he succeeds but if he doesn't it will be his own doing not because some people on the Oatcake didn't like him and wanted him out. |
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