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Post by xchpotter on Aug 20, 2023 6:33:42 GMT
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Post by felonious on Aug 20, 2023 7:02:55 GMT
That's correct there was an article on the radio this week. Even the arterial roads have gone down to 20. Someone said that they spend so much time looking at their speed that they're an accident waiting to happen. Poor Chuffed will never get out of Wales if this continues
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Post by chuffedstokie on Aug 20, 2023 7:41:47 GMT
That's correct there was an article on the radio this week. Even the arterial roads have gone down to 20. Someone said that they spend so much time looking at their speed that they're an accident waiting to happen. Poor Chuffed will never get out of Wales if this continues It's being introduced right outside my front door practically,the geography of the place means I have to pull out onto the main A493 through the village which is currently a 30 zone, not that anyone visitors or locals abide by it. Middle of Sept I think it goes down to 20 but I'm still waiting for someone on a bike to go over the bonnet or get broadsided by one of the local chavs in his shagged out Golf doing 70+ which is quite common. I think my journey to Welshpool from here is about to go from roughly an hour to 1½. There's been two motorbike fatalities in the last two months, it's a popular destination for larger groups of day trips and the roads don't lend themselves to speed merchants.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 7:55:31 GMT
Araf
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Post by redstriper on Aug 20, 2023 8:34:38 GMT
I live on the welsh side of the border but commute into England for work. The problem here is Mark Drakeford and his radical socialist cronies, they've introduced all sorts of anti aspirational policies and this is another. All through lockdown he proved himself to be the most miserable individual who likes to act as god, teling people how fast they can move, when and where they can drink, when they can go to to a home they own. He's basically sending the signal that Wales is closed for business and none welsh investment, he's turning it into an anti competitive backwater where everybody has to pander to the virtually obsolete welsh language and write every document twice instead of just using the one which is the international language of business. He wont be happy until every welsh person on benefits is living in a second home somebody spent years working their ass off to attain. But the country needs more wealth, not less. He's intent on turning it into a North Korea, where everybody is equal but some more are more equal than others - his own holiday home is exempt from his multiple council tax policies designed to punish wealthy english interlopers - but which are putting thousands of welsh tourism businesses at risk. The man and his party are damaging their country massively imo and most welsh people i drink with agree. Rant over ...for now
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 20, 2023 8:38:45 GMT
Isn’t this measure likely to negatively impact tourism to Wales?
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Post by chuffedstokie on Aug 20, 2023 8:52:18 GMT
Isn’t this measure likely to negatively impact tourism to Wales? It's fallen off a cliff this summer already, there's the diehards that will always return I suppose but you can just tell that visitor numbers are way down. There's a large campsite I go past every day just outside Tywyn on the way to work, it's been empty for months until race the train happening yesterday. Come tomorrow morning it'll be empty again.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 8:58:20 GMT
Isn’t this measure likely to negatively impact tourism to Wales? It's fallen off a cliff this summer already, there's the diehards that will always return I suppose but you can just tell that visitor numbers are way down. There's a large campsite I go past every day just outside Tywyn on the way to work, it's been empty for months until race the train happening yesterday. Come tomorrow morning it'll be empty again. Surely that's more down to the shit weather isn't it?
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Post by chuffedstokie on Aug 20, 2023 9:03:07 GMT
It's fallen off a cliff this summer already, there's the diehards that will always return I suppose but you can just tell that visitor numbers are way down. There's a large campsite I go past every day just outside Tywyn on the way to work, it's been empty for months until race the train happening yesterday. Come tomorrow morning it'll be empty again. Surely that's more down to the shit weather isn't it? Weather plays a large part obviously but even that warm stint in June didn't see the area that busy, mind you the schools weren't on hols then.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Aug 20, 2023 9:12:35 GMT
Whenever you're in dismay about how badly our country is run, just think of Wales - It will make you grateful for what you've got.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 20, 2023 9:15:05 GMT
I suggest the reason for the action is because people don't strictly obey the 30 mph rule and drive a little faster. Back in the 00s the authorities removed a speed camera from the M4 in Port Talbot because it was causing too many crashes! Speeders were slamming their brakes on when they saw the camera late and causing vehicles to run into the back of others. The next step was to put speed cameras along the whole of the M4 round Port Talbot, which resulted in: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-30378801The basic problem is there are too many entries and exits on the M4 around Port Talbot, as there are round Newport. This results in the motorway being used as a ring road as well as a by-pass with lots of traffic jumping on and off a fast motorway. People use the motorway to nip from one part of town/city to another part; a recipe for accidents.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 20, 2023 9:19:54 GMT
I live on the welsh side of the border but commute into England for work. The problem here is Mark Drakeford and his radical socialist cronies, they've introduced all sorts of anti aspirational policies and this is another. All through lockdown he proved himself to be the most miserable individual who likes to act as god, teling people how fast they can move, when and where they can drink, when they can go to to a home they own. He's basically sending the signal that Wales is closed for business and none welsh investment, he's turning it into an anti competitive backwater where everybody has to pander to the virtually obsolete welsh language and write every document twice instead of just using the one which is the international language of business. He wont be happy until every welsh person on benefits is living in a second home somebody spent years working their ass off to attain. But the country needs more wealth, not less. He's intent on turning it into a North Korea, where everybody is equal but some more are more equal than others - his own holiday home is exempt from his multiple council tax policies designed to punish wealthy english interlopers - but which are putting thousands of welsh tourism businesses at risk. The man and his party are damaging their country massively imo and most welsh people i drink with agree. Rant over ...for now The counter argument is that these kid of actions are exactly what our leaders should be doing if they are serious about changing people's behaviour, tackling climate change etc. It's exactly like ULEZ in London and Wales's decision not to build any new roads. People won't like it, of course they won't because for the last 70 odd years everyone has driven everywhere and we've built more and more roads to allow them to do that. And look where it's got us - pollution, climate chaos, congestion, lost productivity, poor air quality, noise, c 2000 road deaths a year. But people, let's be honest, are stupid by and large. They think everything will just carry on as normal, we can chuck more and more people onto the planet, consume more and more resources and everything will be just fine. It won't. As we are increasingly seeing. It will require brave leaders to take bold, unpopular actions to tackle this stuff. It'll be very difficult to create the necessary change towards sustainable economic growth, I agree, especially since growth post-war has been dependent mostly on the complete opposite: over-consumption and pollution, but you have to do stuff like this if you want to make change. Ultimately, I think it probably will fail because people are so wedded to their comfy ways of life that they will take matters into their own hands, as all the vandalism of the ULEZ cameras in London and the Uxbridge result have shown. (This despite a large majority of Londoners demanding cleaner air and less traffic when consulted!). But, if driving down road deaths and tackling climate change are rejected by the public because "it gets in the way of how I'm used to living", ultimately it'll be every man for himself and that won't end well for anyone.
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Post by slippyblunger on Aug 20, 2023 9:22:06 GMT
I live on the welsh side of the border but commute into England for work. The problem here is Mark Drakeford and his radical socialist cronies, they've introduced all sorts of anti aspirational policies and this is another. All through lockdown he proved himself to be the most miserable individual who likes to act as god, teling people how fast they can move, when and where they can drink, when they can go to to a home they own. He's basically sending the signal that Wales is closed for business and none welsh investment, he's turning it into an anti competitive backwater where everybody has to pander to the virtually obsolete welsh language and write every document twice instead of just using the one which is the international language of business. He wont be happy until every welsh person on benefits is living in a second home somebody spent years working their ass off to attain. But the country needs more wealth, not less. He's intent on turning it into a North Korea, where everybody is equal but some more are more equal than others - his own holiday home is exempt from his multiple council tax policies designed to punish wealthy english interlopers - but which are putting thousands of welsh tourism businesses at risk. The man and his party are damaging their country massively imo and most welsh people i drink with agree. Rant over ...for now The counter argument is that these kid of actions are exactly what our leaders should be doing if they are serious about changing people's behaviour, tackling climate change etc. It's exactly like ULEZ in London and Wales's decision not to build any new roads. People won't like it, of course they won't because for the last 70 odd years everyone has driven everywhere and we've built more and more roads to allow them to do that. And look where it's got us - pollution, climate chaos, congestion, lost productivity, poor air quality, noise, c 2000 road deaths a year. But people, let's be honest, are stupid by and large. They think everything will just carry on as normal, we can chuck more and more people onto the planet, consume more and more resources and everything will be just fine. It won't. As we are increasingly seeing. It will require brave leaders to take bold, unpopular actions to tackle this stuff. It'll be very difficult to create the necessary change towards sustainable economic growth, I agree, especially since growth post-war has been dependent mostly on the complete opposite: over-consumption and pollution, but you have to do stuff like this if you want to make change. Ultimately, I think it probably will fail because people are so wedded to their comfy ways of life that they will take matters into their own hands, as all the vandalism of the ULEZ cameras in London and the Uxbridge result have shown. (This despite a large majority of Londoners demanding cleaner air and less traffic when consulted!). But, if driving down road deaths and tackling climate change are rejected by the public because "it gets in the way of how I'm used to living", ultimately it'll be every man for himself and that won't end well for anyone. It will fail, because most people can see through it
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 20, 2023 9:27:12 GMT
The counter argument is that these kid of actions are exactly what our leaders should be doing if they are serious about changing people's behaviour, tackling climate change etc. It's exactly like ULEZ in London and Wales's decision not to build any new roads. People won't like it, of course they won't because for the last 70 odd years everyone has driven everywhere and we've built more and more roads to allow them to do that. And look where it's got us - pollution, climate chaos, congestion, lost productivity, poor air quality, noise, c 2000 road deaths a year. But people, let's be honest, are stupid by and large. They think everything will just carry on as normal, we can chuck more and more people onto the planet, consume more and more resources and everything will be just fine. It won't. As we are increasingly seeing. It will require brave leaders to take bold, unpopular actions to tackle this stuff. It'll be very difficult to create the necessary change towards sustainable economic growth, I agree, especially since growth post-war has been dependent mostly on the complete opposite: over-consumption and pollution, but you have to do stuff like this if you want to make change. Ultimately, I think it probably will fail because people are so wedded to their comfy ways of life that they will take matters into their own hands, as all the vandalism of the ULEZ cameras in London and the Uxbridge result have shown. (This despite a large majority of Londoners demanding cleaner air and less traffic when consulted!). But, if driving down road deaths and tackling climate change are rejected by the public because "it gets in the way of how I'm used to living", ultimately it'll be every man for himself and that won't end well for anyone. It will fail, because most people can see through it I doubt that very much. I suspect most people's 'thought processes' about it and similar actions are little more than it's an annoying inconvenience, with little regard to what it's trying to achieve nor the benefits (and disbenefits, other than their own inconvenience).
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Aug 20, 2023 10:23:40 GMT
At last, an excuse when the police stop me in the town centre at 3 am
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Post by slippyblunger on Aug 20, 2023 10:36:01 GMT
It will fail, because most people can see through it I doubt that very much. I suspect most people's 'thought processes' about it and similar actions are little more than it's an annoying inconvenience, with little regard to what it's trying to achieve nor the benefits (and disbenefits, other than their own inconvenience). Most people don't know or don't care mate. Either way same result
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Post by salopstick on Aug 20, 2023 10:52:41 GMT
Drakeford and his communist party are cunts
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Post by pretzel on Aug 20, 2023 11:02:55 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 20, 2023 11:03:15 GMT
I doubt that very much. I suspect most people's 'thought processes' about it and similar actions are little more than it's an annoying inconvenience, with little regard to what it's trying to achieve nor the benefits (and disbenefits, other than their own inconvenience). Most people don't know or don't care mate. Either way same result That's pretty much what I said. In short, we're fucked because most people just want to be able to carry on doing everything that has got us into the mess we're in. Ignorance, irritation at being required to change how things are done, it makes no difference, as you said!
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Post by slippyblunger on Aug 20, 2023 11:13:03 GMT
Most people don't know or don't care mate. Either way same result That's pretty much what I said. In short, we're fucked because most people just want to be able to carry on doing everything that has got us into the mess we're in. Ignorance, irritation at being required to change how things are done, it makes no difference, as you said! That, and also been able to see through the narrative.
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Post by Northy on Aug 20, 2023 11:27:10 GMT
That will be an increase then
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Post by superjw on Aug 20, 2023 12:44:52 GMT
Be good to see science behind environmental impacts, at 20mph cars are likely to be running in a lower gear and with higher revs. Higher gears at slow speeds use more fuel as well. Although reading the article this is more about road safety than environmental elements.
Reducing speed limits can actually lead to more vehicles on the road in the long run, especially logistics and haulage.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 20, 2023 13:04:58 GMT
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Post by slippyblunger on Aug 20, 2023 13:26:55 GMT
Unless there are speed cameras present I doubt many would take notice of it anyway
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 20, 2023 13:29:16 GMT
Unless there are speed cameras present I doubt many would take notice of it anyway Yes, I agree. Like many things, people like the idea of something until the reality is inconvenience to them directly!
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 20, 2023 13:43:31 GMT
I live on the welsh side of the border but commute into England for work. The problem here is Mark Drakeford and his radical socialist cronies, they've introduced all sorts of anti aspirational policies and this is another. All through lockdown he proved himself to be the most miserable individual who likes to act as god, teling people how fast they can move, when and where they can drink, when they can go to to a home they own. He's basically sending the signal that Wales is closed for business and none welsh investment, he's turning it into an anti competitive backwater where everybody has to pander to the virtually obsolete welsh language and write every document twice instead of just using the one which is the international language of business. He wont be happy until every welsh person on benefits is living in a second home somebody spent years working their ass off to attain. But the country needs more wealth, not less. He's intent on turning it into a North Korea, where everybody is equal but some more are more equal than others - his own holiday home is exempt from his multiple council tax policies designed to punish wealthy english interlopers - but which are putting thousands of welsh tourism businesses at risk. The man and his party are damaging their country massively imo and most welsh people i drink with agree. Rant over ...for now Most of suburban London is 20 and not 30 now and this change has happened over the last perhaps 5-10 years. Does that make Sunak and the previous UK governments “radical socialist cronies”? And as much as the tories have tried to turn the country into more of an “anti competitive backwater” with Brexit, I think you are exaggerating enormously about Wales.
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Post by felonious on Aug 20, 2023 13:54:25 GMT
I live on the welsh side of the border but commute into England for work. The problem here is Mark Drakeford and his radical socialist cronies, they've introduced all sorts of anti aspirational policies and this is another. All through lockdown he proved himself to be the most miserable individual who likes to act as god, teling people how fast they can move, when and where they can drink, when they can go to to a home they own. He's basically sending the signal that Wales is closed for business and none welsh investment, he's turning it into an anti competitive backwater where everybody has to pander to the virtually obsolete welsh language and write every document twice instead of just using the one which is the international language of business. He wont be happy until every welsh person on benefits is living in a second home somebody spent years working their ass off to attain. But the country needs more wealth, not less. He's intent on turning it into a North Korea, where everybody is equal but some more are more equal than others - his own holiday home is exempt from his multiple council tax policies designed to punish wealthy english interlopers - but which are putting thousands of welsh tourism businesses at risk. The man and his party are damaging their country massively imo and most welsh people i drink with agree. Rant over ...for now Most of suburban London is 20 and not 30 now and this change has happened over the last perhaps 5-10 years. Does that make Sunak and the previous UK governments “radical socialist cronies”? And as much as the tories have tried to turn the country into more of an “anti competitive backwater” with Brexit, I think you are exaggerating enormously about Wales. There's a huge difference between mainly rural Wales and a mega city like London with fabulous transport links. Have a look at a map when you have a chance and have a think about how long it might take to get from the coast in Mid Wales to just over the border in England at 20mph. The people in Wales arguing in favour of 30mph are not arguing against 20mpf in residential areas. I'm not familiar with the politics behind 20mph in London other than I thought it was a TFL policy. Did Sunak instruct them to introduce 20mph?
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 20, 2023 14:00:44 GMT
Road safety for pedestrians would be improved by banning SUV's from city centres.
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 20, 2023 14:08:37 GMT
Most of suburban London is 20 and not 30 now and this change has happened over the last perhaps 5-10 years. Does that make Sunak and the previous UK governments “radical socialist cronies”? And as much as the tories have tried to turn the country into more of an “anti competitive backwater” with Brexit, I think you are exaggerating enormously about Wales. There's a huge difference between mainly rural Wales and a mega city like London with fabulous transport links. Have a look at a map when you have a chance and have a think about how long it might take to get from the coast in Mid Wales to just over the border in England at 20mph. The people in Wales arguing in favour of 30mph are not arguing against 20mpf in residential areas. I'm not familiar with the politics behind 20mph in London other than I thought it was a TFL policy. Did Sunak instruct them to introduce 20mph? If they have made every road in Wales (including main roads) 20mph then that is obviously mad. But I doubt that is what is going to happen. I expect they are just changing the current 30mph roads (which by default are in towns and cities and built up areas) and not every road (M4, country roads which are national speed limit etc). You are absolutely right that TFL sets speed limits. I mentioned the government because redstriper had for Wales. I was comparing like for like. A quick google search tells me that the Welsh government are responsible for this change, not local authorities - I am wrong in my comparison. In that case it must be the work of radical socialist cronies. North Korea has nothing on Wales…his comparison was absolutely spot on.
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Post by felonious on Aug 20, 2023 18:14:51 GMT
There's a huge difference between mainly rural Wales and a mega city like London with fabulous transport links. Have a look at a map when you have a chance and have a think about how long it might take to get from the coast in Mid Wales to just over the border in England at 20mph. The people in Wales arguing in favour of 30mph are not arguing against 20mpf in residential areas. I'm not familiar with the politics behind 20mph in London other than I thought it was a TFL policy. Did Sunak instruct them to introduce 20mph? If they have made every road in Wales (including main roads) 20mph then that is obviously mad. But I doubt that is what is going to happen. I expect they are just changing the current 30mph roads (which by default are in towns and cities and built up areas) and not every road (M4, country roads which are national speed limit etc). You are absolutely right that TFL sets speed limits. I mentioned the government because redstriper had for Wales. I was comparing like for like. A quick google search tells me that the Welsh government are responsible for this change, not local authorities - I am wrong in my comparison. In that case it must be the work of radical socialist cronies. North Korea has nothing on Wales…his comparison was absolutely spot on. It's my understanding from listening a recent radio programme that all 30mph roads will become 20mph. Getting out of town and on to 20 mph roads will be a nightmare in Wales which is predominantly rural will be a nightmare. As Chuffed said his 1 hour journey to Welshpool becomes 1 hour 30 minutes. As I said earlier even the representative in favour of keeping 30mph speeds is not against 20mph in built up areas. Getting around Wales for businesses becomes far more expensive and unprofitable.
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