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Post by ChesterStokie on Aug 20, 2023 18:36:18 GMT
If they have made every road in Wales (including main roads) 20mph then that is obviously mad. But I doubt that is what is going to happen. I expect they are just changing the current 30mph roads (which by default are in towns and cities and built up areas) and not every road (M4, country roads which are national speed limit etc). You are absolutely right that TFL sets speed limits. I mentioned the government because redstriper had for Wales. I was comparing like for like. A quick google search tells me that the Welsh government are responsible for this change, not local authorities - I am wrong in my comparison. In that case it must be the work of radical socialist cronies. North Korea has nothing on Wales…his comparison was absolutely spot on. It's my understanding from listening a recent radio programme that all 30mph roads will become 20mph. Getting out of town and on to 20 mph roads will be a nightmare in Wales which is predominantly rural will be a nightmare. As Chuffed said his 1 hour journey to Welshpool becomes 1 hour 30 minutes. As I said earlier even the representative in favour of keeping 30mph speeds is not against 20mph in built up areas. Getting around Wales for businesses becomes far more expensive and unprofitable. But surely almost all current 30mph are in built up areas? Why would a journey to Welshpool go from 1 hour to 1.5 hours unless it is all currently 30mph and will all be going to 20mph? There’s no way it can all be currently 30mph because almost all of it is outside built up areas? |
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Post by felonious on Aug 20, 2023 18:44:34 GMT
It's my understanding from listening a recent radio programme that all 30mph roads will become 20mph. Getting out of town and on to 20 mph roads will be a nightmare in Wales which is predominantly rural will be a nightmare. As Chuffed said his 1 hour journey to Welshpool becomes 1 hour 30 minutes. As I said earlier even the representative in favour of keeping 30mph speeds is not against 20mph in built up areas. Getting around Wales for businesses becomes far more expensive and unprofitable. But surely almost all current 30mph are in built up areas? Why would a journey to Welshpool go from 1 hour to 1.5 hours unless it is all currently 30mph and will all be going to 20mph? There’s no way it can all be currently 30mph because almost all of it is outside built up areas? I would imagine that the journey from Tywyn to Welshpool passes through a fair few villages each inhabited by only one gay man  Let's hope his new bird doesn't live in Welshpool |
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Post by chuffedstokie on Aug 20, 2023 18:59:09 GMT
It's my understanding from listening a recent radio programme that all 30mph roads will become 20mph. Getting out of town and on to 20 mph roads will be a nightmare in Wales which is predominantly rural will be a nightmare. As Chuffed said his 1 hour journey to Welshpool becomes 1 hour 30 minutes. As I said earlier even the representative in favour of keeping 30mph speeds is not against 20mph in built up areas. Getting around Wales for businesses becomes far more expensive and unprofitable. But surely almost all current 30mph are in built up areas? Why would a journey to Welshpool go from 1 hour to 1.5 hours unless it is all currently 30mph and will all be going to 20mph? There’s no way it can all be currently 30mph because almost all of it is outside built up areas? You'll have to take my word for it that some long stretches of roads unhindered by villages (of which there are many) are all 40mph not even 60. Route options away from here are at best 'limited'. |
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Post by ChesterStokie on Aug 20, 2023 19:09:34 GMT
But surely almost all current 30mph are in built up areas? Why would a journey to Welshpool go from 1 hour to 1.5 hours unless it is all currently 30mph and will all be going to 20mph? There’s no way it can all be currently 30mph because almost all of it is outside built up areas? You'll have to take my word for it that some long stretches of roads unhindered by villages (of which there are many) are all 40mph not even 60. Route options away from here are at best 'limited'. But if large stretches of it are currently 40mph then those large stretches will stay at 40mph? Apologies if I'm missing something here. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 20, 2023 19:26:42 GMT
If they have made every road in Wales (including main roads) 20mph then that is obviously mad. But I doubt that is what is going to happen. I expect they are just changing the current 30mph roads (which by default are in towns and cities and built up areas) and not every road (M4, country roads which are national speed limit etc). You are absolutely right that TFL sets speed limits. I mentioned the government because redstriper had for Wales. I was comparing like for like. A quick google search tells me that the Welsh government are responsible for this change, not local authorities - I am wrong in my comparison. In that case it must be the work of radical socialist cronies. North Korea has nothing on Wales…his comparison was absolutely spot on. It's my understanding from listening a recent radio programme that all 30mph roads will become 20mph. Getting out of town and on to 20 mph roads will be a nightmare in Wales which is predominantly rural will be a nightmare. As Chuffed said his 1 hour journey to Welshpool becomes 1 hour 30 minutes. As I said earlier even the representative in favour of keeping 30mph speeds is not against 20mph in built up areas. Getting around Wales for businesses becomes far more expensive and unprofitable. Why do the rural roads have a 30mph speed limit? That seems strange. |
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Post by felonious on Aug 20, 2023 19:31:48 GMT
It's my understanding from listening a recent radio programme that all 30mph roads will become 20mph. Getting out of town and on to 20 mph roads will be a nightmare in Wales which is predominantly rural will be a nightmare. As Chuffed said his 1 hour journey to Welshpool becomes 1 hour 30 minutes. As I said earlier even the representative in favour of keeping 30mph speeds is not against 20mph in built up areas. Getting around Wales for businesses becomes far more expensive and unprofitable. Why do the rural roads have a 30mph speed limit? That seems strange. For instance locally leaving Newcastle..... Keele mainly 30, Madeley Heath mainly 30, Wrinehill mainly 30, Betley mainly 30 I can imagine making them 20 would be a nightmare journey. |
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Post by ChesterStokie on Aug 20, 2023 19:35:24 GMT
It's my understanding from listening a recent radio programme that all 30mph roads will become 20mph. Getting out of town and on to 20 mph roads will be a nightmare in Wales which is predominantly rural will be a nightmare. As Chuffed said his 1 hour journey to Welshpool becomes 1 hour 30 minutes. As I said earlier even the representative in favour of keeping 30mph speeds is not against 20mph in built up areas. Getting around Wales for businesses becomes far more expensive and unprofitable. Why do the rural roads have a 30mph speed limit? That seems strange. I don't think they do. I've been driving fairly regularly this summer from Chester to the Bala area (I'm in Wales in about 10 minutes) and most of the rural roads on that journey have 40mph or 50mph limits which, as I said above, will surely remain unchanged? |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 20, 2023 19:38:38 GMT
Why do the rural roads have a 30mph speed limit? That seems strange. For instance locally leaving Newcastle..... Keele mainly 30, Madeley Heath mainly 30, Wrinehill mainly 30, Betley mainly 30 I can imagine making them 20 would be a nightmare journey. Too right, it’s boringly turgid as it is and I’m on a bike! |
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Post by noustie on Aug 20, 2023 19:47:57 GMT
I was on a section of dual carriage way where they closed one lane and was stopped at a temporary red light. There was no contra flow or slip road on the mile closure.
Sat there over 5 minutes wondering what the fuck was going on. A flatbed truck reverses down the carriage, the light goes green and he escorts us at 10mph for the entire length where we pass one bloke in a steam roller and another on the grass on his mobile.
Fucking insanity - my Zinger Tower burger was cold before I got home bastards!
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Post by chuffedstokie on Aug 20, 2023 20:17:51 GMT
You'll have to take my word for it that some long stretches of roads unhindered by villages (of which there are many) are all 40mph not even 60. Route options away from here are at best 'limited'. But if large stretches of it are currently 40mph then those large stretches will stay at 40mph? Apologies if I'm missing something here. You're quite right, the 40's will stay that way but with all the villages you go through dropping to 20 and between Machynlleth and Welshpool there’s plenty getting into third gear will become a novelty. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 20, 2023 22:06:21 GMT
Why do the rural roads have a 30mph speed limit? That seems strange. For instance locally leaving Newcastle..... Keele mainly 30, Madeley Heath mainly 30, Wrinehill mainly 30, Betley mainly 30 I can imagine making them 20 would be a nightmare journey. I haven’t lived in the area for some time, but I am pretty sure those areas will be fine with the changes in Wales. But I take your point that it doesn’t have to be a big metropolis to have 30 limits. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 21, 2023 6:34:54 GMT
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Post by redstriper on Aug 21, 2023 6:46:35 GMT
To answer Oggy.
My work commute takes me through 3 Welsh 30mph zones, if I stick to the 20mph the time needed to go through those will increase by 50% in total. I'll leave over 50% more emissions in them for the residents to breath in every day. I'll be accelerating out of them back up to 50 and using additional fuel in the process. All of the (increasingly small) minority who actually pay taxes and create jobs will lose productivity over the year due to the extra time wasted on the road.
Their arguments for doing it are nonsensical, they stated the fact that more people survive accidents at 20mph then 30, i imagine that's true, but if they believe that is the most important factor they should ban cars completely. Maybe, one life will be saved a year, but millions of lives will be disrupted and Wales will become even more of a backwater.
Hopelessly illogical, like most of their schemes, it's really about their vanity, love of control, and desire to be different to England.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 21, 2023 6:51:20 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Aug 21, 2023 8:06:44 GMT
Why do the rural roads have a 30mph speed limit? That seems strange. For instance locally leaving Newcastle..... Keele mainly 30, Madeley Heath mainly 30, Wrinehill mainly 30, Betley mainly 30 I can imagine making them 20 would be a nightmare journey. However the village of Hough just outside nantwich is a proper village with street lights and all and thats a 40 |
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Post by salopstick on Aug 21, 2023 8:09:04 GMT
To answer Oggy. My work commute takes me through 3 Welsh 30mph zones, if I stick to the 20mph the time needed to go through those will increase by 50% in total. I'll leave over 50% more emissions in them for the residents to breath in every day. I'll be accelerating out of them back up to 50 and using additional fuel in the process. All of the (increasingly small) minority who actually pay taxes and create jobs will lose productivity over the year due to the extra time wasted on the road. Their arguments for doing it are nonsensical, they stated the fact that more people survive accidents at 20mph then 30, i imagine that's true, but if they believe that is the most important factor they should ban cars completely. Maybe, one life will be saved a year, but millions of lives will be disrupted and Wales will become even more of a backwater. Hopelessly illogical, like most of their schemes, it's really about their vanity, love of control, and desire to be different to England. The argument, for may welsh laws is that devolution went to welsh labour's head and they have spent much of it showing the welsh public "look what we can do" drakeford is widely unpopular in Wales but wales is that one place that will continue to blindly vote labour |
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Post by redstriper on Aug 21, 2023 10:30:33 GMT
20splenty are the architects of the scheme, totally understandable that they pick out stats and studies which support their propaganda and were organised to "prove" what they wanted to prove. A fair test would compare exactly the same number of vehicles in a set time period, their emissions at points within the zone, and also the braking and accelerating zones before and after. This wont happen as the results wont suit the agenda. Governments have form for ignoring side effects which don't suit whatever populist plan their trying to pedal at the time, they introduced speed bumps all over the place, which have been proven to be a total disaster for the local air quality. |
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Post by superjw on Aug 21, 2023 10:55:35 GMT
20splenty are the architects of the scheme, totally understandable that they pick out stats and studies which support their propaganda and were organised to "prove" what they wanted to prove. A fair test would compare exactly the same number of vehicles in a set time period, their emissions at points within the zone, and also the braking and accelerating zones before and after. This wont happen as the results wont suit the agenda. Governments have form for ignoring side effects which don't suit whatever populist plan their trying to pedal at the time, they introduced speed bumps all over the place, which have been proven to be a total disaster for the local air quality. What they should also include is a model about widespread speed reductions to haulage. It’s not impossible to think that slower speeds means lorries and vans etc can’t go to as many places in a day or in driving hours as they could before. Because the demand remains static or even increases, the only way to meet demand with slower road speeds is more vehicles… |
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 21, 2023 11:33:14 GMT
The Welsh regional assembly have precious little real power but the power they do have is wielded in a small minded, control freakish way.
This is just one more example of it.
20mph speed limits are an extremely annoying fad that have debatable positive impact on pollution levels but can cause serious traffic flow problems whereby bicycles can easily end up overtaking cars which is downright dangerous!
Sure I can see there necessary on residential side roads but on through routes that are required to go somewhere?
No way.
* edit
On a wider but connected note, it seems to me that the Welsh and Scottish Assemblies have both gone down similar rabbit holes whereby they are actively trying to manufacture proof of their 'differences' from bad old England when they should be seeing their similarities ( both cultural and genetic ) and historical connections and trying to positively involve themselves in creating a joined up and collaborative society within, what is afterall, a small Country.
Too much individualism leads to a fracture in society and whilst needed to some extent it needs to be counterbalanced with a desire to achieve a greater good through togetherness, as far as I'm concerned.
The ongoing war in Ukraine is an example of how closely connected people's can fall into division.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 21, 2023 11:34:55 GMT
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 21, 2023 11:55:39 GMT
Having recently driven the A470 from Llandudno in North Wales to the M4 at Cardiff I can categorically state that the majority of the route is 60mph with a few 40mph & 30mph limits going through villages. Using a bit of maths …..if you pass through for example 30 villages each 1 mile in length then thats 30 miles of road at 30mph would take 1 hour. However at 20mph it would take 1 hour 30 minutes. Not sure how many villages I passed through on A470 but it wasn’t 30.
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Post by redstriper on Aug 21, 2023 16:29:28 GMT
More of the same. Just to comment on the Warrington trials. In summary, the results show that traffic flow reduced by an average of 2678 vehicles per week per road throughout the 3 trial areas; average speeds reduced by 1.45 mph and; a reduction of injury collision occurrence of 25.5% This illustrates why just how and why stats can be manipulated. What's happening here is that when you make it difficult to drive route X, motorists simply use a different route. Hence you naturally get a reduction of injury collision occurrences due to the reduction in traffic, and similarly you will get less emissions, but all that's happened is they've moved elsewhere, where they aren't being included in the study. It's obvious that reducing speeds will reduce collisions, clearly if we all drive everywhere at 5mph we could eliminate collisions altogether, but it's a race to the bottom, with the logic suggesting we go back to horse and cart. It's a massively flawed and condescending argument which treats people like idiots. We agree on almost everything on here RWB - we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.  |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 21, 2023 19:54:32 GMT
I wasn't saying it was good or bad necessarily, just presenting some findings that people might be interested to read and appeared to be asking for. Plus also highlighting that leaders are often criticised for doing nothing. And in this case for the opposite!
I'm not surprised to see such opposition though, it's the same when bold initiatives are taken re climate change. People just don't want anything that interferes with their love affair with their car. It's the convenience more than anything really, which is understandable, but it just perpetuates the last six or seven decades that have led to the climate mess, pollution, noise, congestion, green spaces being tarmaced over etc. Something has to change unless we just want more of the same, which does seem a bit mad.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 21, 2023 19:58:50 GMT
20splenty are the architects of the scheme, totally understandable that they pick out stats and studies which support their propaganda and were organised to "prove" what they wanted to prove. A fair test would compare exactly the same number of vehicles in a set time period, their emissions at points within the zone, and also the braking and accelerating zones before and after. This wont happen as the results wont suit the agenda. Governments have form for ignoring side effects which don't suit whatever populist plan their trying to pedal at the time, they introduced speed bumps all over the place, which have been proven to be a total disaster for the local air quality. What they should also include is a model about widespread speed reductions to haulage. It’s not impossible to think that slower speeds means lorries and vans etc can’t go to as many places in a day or in driving hours as they could before. Because the demand remains static or even increases, the only way to meet demand with slower road speeds is more vehicles… That’s a very good point. In an industry that relies on long distance haulage I should look into it. Although I don’t think we’ve ever drove anything to Wales, which, thinking about it, is a bit mad🤔 |
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 21, 2023 20:28:10 GMT
It's too difficult to consistently drive at 20mph for long periods. It doesn't take much pressure and you are straight over the speed limit. Wales camera's will be raking it in. Seems a bit stupid going round in 3rd gear.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Aug 21, 2023 20:37:03 GMT
Be good to see science behind environmental impacts, at 20mph cars are likely to be running in a lower gear and with higher revs. Higher gears at slow speeds use more fuel as well. Although reading the article this is more about road safety than environmental elements. Reducing speed limits can actually lead to more vehicles on the road in the long run, especially logistics and haulage. I've read that petrol cars are most economical between 35 to 50 mph. Mine gets best MPG (60+) at about 40 to 50, and it's well lower when driving 20-30 - probably 40MPG or less. No one seems to want to criticise electric cars, but they're more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists given the heavier weight, faster acceleration, and quieter sound. The bigger size of modern cars is also more likely to severly injure or kill. It's crazy how big is sold as safe, when it actually isn't. |
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Post by Davef on Aug 21, 2023 20:39:16 GMT
I wasn't saying it was good or bad necessarily, just presenting some findings that people might be interested to read and appeared to be asking for. Plus also highlighting that leaders are often criticised for doing nothing. And in this case for the opposite! I'm not surprised to see such opposition though, it's the same when bold initiatives are taken re climate change. People just don't want anything that interferes with their love affair with their car. It's the convenience more than anything really, which is understandable, but it just perpetuates the last six or seven decades that have led to the climate mess, pollution, noise, congestion, green spaces being tarmaced over etc. Something has to change unless we just want more of the same, which does seem a bit mad. Yeah, Wales bringing their speed limit down 20mph is a really bold initiative to tackle climate change. Almost as barmy as Ireland culling 200,000 cattle while the near 700 million in India, Pakistan, Brazil and China carry on farting to their hearts content. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 22, 2023 16:15:55 GMT
I wasn't saying it was good or bad necessarily, just presenting some findings that people might be interested to read and appeared to be asking for. Plus also highlighting that leaders are often criticised for doing nothing. And in this case for the opposite! I'm not surprised to see such opposition though, it's the same when bold initiatives are taken re climate change. People just don't want anything that interferes with their love affair with their car. It's the convenience more than anything really, which is understandable, but it just perpetuates the last six or seven decades that have led to the climate mess, pollution, noise, congestion, green spaces being tarmaced over etc. Something has to change unless we just want more of the same, which does seem a bit mad. Yeah, Wales bringing their speed limit down 20mph is a really bold initiative to tackle climate change. Almost as barmy as Ireland culling 200,000 cattle while the near 700 million in India, Pakistan, Brazil and China carry on farting to their hearts content. As others have said, it's more about road safety than anything else, although there are climate change benefits too. I guess you either accept that something needs to be done and try to lead by example in the hope that others follow, (China is currently way ahead of the rest of the planet on renewable energy, following years of being seen as something of a pariah in green energy terms) or you just shrug and carry on as we have done for the last six or seven decades and make everything that much worse. |
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Post by felonious on Jan 13, 2024 12:53:07 GMT
20mph: Llandegla anger as new limit sees bus route cut A spokesperson for Arriva Wales said the new 20mph limit was having an impact on its operations. "The consequence of this change in speed has been severe and has caused increased lost mileage and reduced punctuality," a spokesperson said. "We have been open in raising our concerns www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67953320 |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jan 13, 2024 12:59:25 GMT
I wasn't saying it was good or bad necessarily, just presenting some findings that people might be interested to read and appeared to be asking for. Plus also highlighting that leaders are often criticised for doing nothing. And in this case for the opposite! I'm not surprised to see such opposition though, it's the same when bold initiatives are taken re climate change. People just don't want anything that interferes with their love affair with their car. It's the convenience more than anything really, which is understandable, but it just perpetuates the last six or seven decades that have led to the climate mess, pollution, noise, congestion, green spaces being tarmaced over etc. Something has to change unless we just want more of the same, which does seem a bit mad. Yeah, Wales bringing their speed limit down 20mph is a really bold initiative to tackle climate change. Almost as barmy as Ireland culling 200,000 cattle while the near 700 million in India, Pakistan, Brazil and China carry on farting to their hearts content. I read a meme the other day that went something along the lines of........ Imagine being so dumb that you eat bugs to save the planet from cow farts because your TV told you to do it 😆 |
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Let's hope his new bird doesn't live in Welshpool 
