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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 9:38:21 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 14, 2024 9:38:21 GMT
Oddly, I literally never said the whole shebang started on October 7th. I said " Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th". Odder still, I literally said in a previous post that "Hamas then laid the precondition of the hostages only being released in exchange for a deadline for a complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and the freedom for Hamas prisoners, 100 of whom are serving life sentences for terrorist offences against Israel." But not in your post that I responsded to. Words matter. Eyesight matters, too, my friend! Nice editing there. It was only in the initial reply to you, quoting you 😉
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 9:44:30 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 14, 2024 9:44:30 GMT
But not in your post that I responsded to. Words matter. Eyesight matters, too, my friend! As I’m not your optician I’m not overly bothered about about your eyesight Now if hamas and hizbollah agreed to disband Would you agree that Israel should be forced to agree to un and international laws
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 14, 2024 9:50:52 GMT
But not in your post that I responsded to. Words matter. Eyesight matters, too, my friend! It was only in the initial reply to you, quoting you 😉 View AttachmentIn which you fail to mention the hostages held by Israel.
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 9:52:43 GMT
Post by flea79 on Oct 14, 2024 9:52:43 GMT
Eyesight matters, too, my friend! As I’m not your optician I’m not overly bothered about about your eyesight Now if hamas and hizbollah agreed to disband Would you agree that Israel should be forced to agree to un and international laws that would be the ideal solution, but we know it aint going to happen its too ancient a conflict going back to the biblical story of Isaac and Ishmael just let them blow each other to hell and ignore them, they will soon get bored
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 14, 2024 10:05:23 GMT
Eyesight matters, too, my friend! It was only in the initial reply to you, quoting you 😉 View AttachmentIn which you fail to mention the hostages held by Israel. ..and yet oddly I mention Hamas requesting the freeing of "prisoners" by Israel. I guess it depends upon whether you deem everyone held by Israel to be hostages or not. The only thing we know is that at least 100 of the people Hamas requested to be freed in its counter-negotiation were convicted and incidentally, it was one of the terms Hamas inserted into the Egypt-Quatari peace deal. Incidentally, why on this earth would Israel ever free terrorist "hostages"/"prisoners" back to Hamas? wagsastokie No. Personally, I'd rather Israel abided by international law now and I rather detest Netanyahu as, to my mind, he's hardly a calming, rationalising influence. However, even I acknowledge that there has to be an appreciation of the fact that Hamas and Hezbollah need to be eradicated and Iran seriously diminished as an interfering force in the region for any lasting peace to be achieved. Pretending Hamas and Hezbollah are creditable actors with justifiable aims in the region is just as wrong and illogical as thanking Netanyahu for his efforts towards peace.
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 10:12:23 GMT
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Post by musik on Oct 14, 2024 10:12:23 GMT
🥵
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Post by gawa on Oct 14, 2024 11:06:31 GMT
This post is not taking sides at all but is just an observation. The draft terms of a ceasefire are for Israel to release Palestinian prisoners at a ratio of 10:1 for Israeli hostages that include women, children under 19, elderly over 50 and the sick. Why are Hamas still keeping children, the sick and elderly hostage? Absolutely inexcusable. Actually, why did they take any hostages whatsoever and provoke this barbaric response which they surely knew it would? It is a reminder that both sides are culpable and neither come with clean hands (unlike I suspect 99.9% who have died or been taken hostage since 7 October). We have no idea why or on what grounds the Palestinians prisoners being released were arrested in the first place, but worst case they have done nothing wrong whatsoever, something we can say with absolute certainty about each and every hostage. So why the 10:1 ratio? Now we don’t know if those are the final terms of course. But this does not strike me as a deal brokered by a genocidal maniac that Netanyahu has come across as. Quite the contrary. This isn't taking sides either but you are looking through the Telescope from the wrong end The numbers are fluid and difficult to verify but best estimates are 2.3 M Gazans are being held in an open Prison in Gaza now turned to rubble from which before 7th October they had very limited access/permission from Israeli Authorities to leave the Gaza Strip Since the 1967 War and Israeli occupation of West Bank and East Jerusalem and the construction of fencing to enclose Gaza as an Open Prison over 1 Million Palestinians have been imprisoned by Israel the vast majority without charge. That it 4 out of 10 Palestinian Men spend some period of time in an Israeli Prison www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/8/why-are-so-many-palestinian-prisoners-in-israeli-jailsThere are about 8,000 Palestinians held in Israeli detention, the vast majority from West Bank and East Jerusalem of which about 3,000 are held without charge or as it call "Administrative Detention" of these several hundred are children and an equal number of women. At the last Hostage exchange the vast majority of Palestinians released were these women and children but since then triple that amount have been "Administratively Detained" www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/29/jailed-without-charge-how-israel-holds-thousands-of-palestinian-prisonerswww.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/more-than-8000-palestinians-in-israeli-jails-rights-groups-sayI'm Fucking tired of people saying this conflict started on 7th October 2023 I couldn't find my earlier post on the "prisoners" so this one will do. @ariel Manto you're showing either ignorance or a lack of education by implying everyone held by Israel is a genuine prisoner. Israel by their laws are allowed to lock up any Palestine in "administrative detentions" without trial. Many locked up are also kids and women.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 14, 2024 11:08:57 GMT
Wouldn't have been signed and sealed anyway, too many nut jobs in Netanyahu's government who would offer almost zero concessions to the Palestinian cause.......... In relation to the bold text you've quoted. I'm not sure the poster realises about the peace deals China was brokering between Iran and Saudi... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_relationsI also think they're forgetting most Saudis back Palestine too. The only thing Israel and Saudi have in common is that they cause devastation on their neighbours across the middle east all while being armed by ourselves. Iran simply supports those being attacked by US proxy armies. Saudi has some of the worst human rights abuses in the modern day world.... and we actively support it. Iran simply supports those being attacked by US proxy armies? Seriously? Does Iran arm Russia because the US proxy army in Ukraine attacked Russia?
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Post by gawa on Oct 14, 2024 11:10:28 GMT
Rioting over their right to sexually abuse prisoners. Words fail me. And here are some of the most morale people in the world rioting because they feel their right to rape "Administratively detained" people who haven't had a trial or been found guilty of any crime is under threat. Anyway... probably too many facts for one day. Those Israelis are simply defending themselves and hamas put those prisoners there to be raped so they could be used as human shields....
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Post by gawa on Oct 14, 2024 11:18:50 GMT
In relation to the bold text you've quoted. I'm not sure the poster realises about the peace deals China was brokering between Iran and Saudi... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_relationsI also think they're forgetting most Saudis back Palestine too. The only thing Israel and Saudi have in common is that they cause devastation on their neighbours across the middle east all while being armed by ourselves. Iran simply supports those being attacked by US proxy armies. Saudi has some of the worst human rights abuses in the modern day world.... and we actively support it. Iran simply supports those being attacked by US proxy armies? Seriously? Does Iran arm Russia because the US proxy army in Ukraine attacked Russia? USA aren't attacking Russia mate. That would be an escalation if NATO troops were to be involved in the conflict. They're arming Ukrainian troops. And yes Iran is helping groups DEFEND themselves. Hezzbollah, Syrian Government, Houthis, PMF in Iraq against ISIS, Shia Militias in Afghanistan against the taliban, Palestine resistance groups against Israel etc.. The US/Saudi/Israel on the other hand are helping groups ATTACK other territories.
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 11:28:20 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 14, 2024 11:28:20 GMT
Iran simply supports those being attacked by US proxy armies? Seriously? Does Iran arm Russia because the US proxy army in Ukraine attacked Russia? USA aren't attacking Russia mate. That would be an escalation if NATO troops were to be involved in the conflict. They're arming Ukrainian troops. And yes Iran is helping groups DEFEND themselves.Hezzbollah, Syrian Government, Houthis, PMF in Iraq against ISIS, Shia Militias in Afghanistan against the taliban, Palestine resistance groups against Israel etc.. The US/Saudi/Israel on the other hand are helping groups ATTACK other territories. Perilously close to glorifying terrorism, there.....
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 14, 2024 11:29:37 GMT
Look away if you're faint hearted. Genocide. Indeed. This interview is over 30 years old. History is extremely important ...
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 14, 2024 11:36:44 GMT
Look away if you're faint hearted. Genocide. Indeed. This interview is over 30 years old. History is extremely important ... Interesting that. And by extension how does his analogy translate out when you consider the same thing for Islamic nations that have deeply entwined religious, political amd legal discourse?
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Post by gawa on Oct 14, 2024 11:37:30 GMT
USA aren't attacking Russia mate. That would be an escalation if NATO troops were to be involved in the conflict. They're arming Ukrainian troops. And yes Iran is helping groups DEFEND themselves.Hezzbollah, Syrian Government, Houthis, PMF in Iraq against ISIS, Shia Militias in Afghanistan against the taliban, Palestine resistance groups against Israel etc.. The US/Saudi/Israel on the other hand are helping groups ATTACK other territories. Perilously close to glorifying terrorism, there..... I'm not the one making excuses and apologies for a terrorist state murdering civillians for 12 months. If you want to talk about glorifying terrorism you can look closer to your own posts and also the actions of our western governments. I support Iran in arming resistance groups to defend their territory and their people. Others support the west in arming governments with a long history of human rights abuses to attack and kill civillians of all ages in territories which do not belong to them. There's alot of terrorism being glorified in this thread but it isn't from me. Its from those who decide to take their moral compass of those enabling genocide and ethnic cleansing. In a parallel universe though if we all followed Hitlers moral compass in 1945. Then many of those who fought against fascism would be called terrorists. And those who did the Holocaust would be called groups fighting terror.... Swings and roundabouts. I know I'm on the right side. I'm sure nazis thought they were on the right side too in 1945....
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 11:38:22 GMT
Post by wannabee on Oct 14, 2024 11:38:22 GMT
This isn't taking sides either but you are looking through the Telescope from the wrong end The numbers are fluid and difficult to verify but best estimates are 2.3 M Gazans are being held in an open Prison in Gaza now turned to rubble from which before 7th October they had very limited access/permission from Israeli Authorities to leave the Gaza Strip Since the 1967 War and Israeli occupation of West Bank and East Jerusalem and the construction of fencing to enclose Gaza as an Open Prison over 1 Million Palestinians have been imprisoned by Israel the vast majority without charge. That it 4 out of 10 Palestinian Men spend some period of time in an Israeli Prison www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/8/why-are-so-many-palestinian-prisoners-in-israeli-jailsThere are about 8,000 Palestinians held in Israeli detention, the vast majority from West Bank and East Jerusalem of which about 3,000 are held without charge or as it call "Administrative Detention" of these several hundred are children and an equal number of women. At the last Hostage exchange the vast majority of Palestinians released were these women and children but since then triple that amount have been "Administratively Detained" www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/29/jailed-without-charge-how-israel-holds-thousands-of-palestinian-prisonerswww.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/more-than-8000-palestinians-in-israeli-jails-rights-groups-sayI'm Fucking tired of people saying this conflict started on 7th October 2023 I couldn't find my earlier post on the "prisoners" so this one will do. @ariel Manto you're showing either ignorance or a lack of education by implying everyone held by Israel is a genuine prisoner. Israel by their laws are allowed to lock up any Palestine in "administrative detentions" without trial. Many locked up are also kids and women. What the Fuck are you on about now? I haven't mentioned Prisoners once and which part of being held without charge didn't you understand
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 14, 2024 11:45:03 GMT
Indeed. This interview is over 30 years old. History is extremely important ... Interesting that. And by extension how does his analogy translate out when you consider the same thing for Islamic nations that have deeply entwined religious, political amd legal discourse? I'm not sure what your point is Mickey, it sounds suspiciously like whataboutery. From my perspective they're both fucking evil and both fucking wrong. How about you?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 14, 2024 11:46:21 GMT
Indeed. This interview is over 30 years old. History is extremely important ... Interesting that. And by extension how does his analogy translate out when you consider the same thing for Islamic nations that have deeply entwined religious, political amd legal discourse? Religious fanaticism is religious fanaticism it's as simple as that. Whether it be Judaism, Islam or any other.....
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 14, 2024 11:52:23 GMT
Perilously close to glorifying terrorism, there..... I'm not the one making excuses and apologies for a terrorist state murdering civillians for 12 months. If you want to talk about glorifying terrorism you can look closer to your own posts and also the actions of our western governments. I support Iran in arming resistance groups to defend their territory and their people. Others support the west in arming governments with a long history of human rights abuses to attack and kill civillians of all ages in territories which do not belong to them. There's alot of terrorism being glorified in this thread but it isn't from me. Its from those who decide to take their moral compass of those enabling genocide and ethnic cleansing. In a parallel universe though if we all followed Hitlers moral compass in 1945. Then many of those who fought against fascism would be called terrorists. And those who did the Holocaust would be called groups fighting terror.... Swings and roundabouts. I know I'm on the right side. I'm sure nazis thought they were on the right side too in 1945.... Completely agree with this. We have a viewpoint not shared with 75% of the world, based on our "values" and what is right and wrong. Many Latin Americans, Africans, Asians, Eastern Europeans, those in the Middle East would disagree completely......
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 11:52:39 GMT
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Post by gawa on Oct 14, 2024 11:52:39 GMT
I couldn't find my earlier post on the "prisoners" so this one will do. @ariel Manto you're showing either ignorance or a lack of education by implying everyone held by Israel is a genuine prisoner. Israel by their laws are allowed to lock up any Palestine in "administrative detentions" without trial. Many locked up are also kids and women. What the Fuck are you on about now? I haven't mentioned Prisoners once and which part of being held without charge didn't you understand No need to be a snidey little prick mate. Was simply agreeing with you.
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 11:58:52 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 14, 2024 11:58:52 GMT
Interesting that. And by extension how does his analogy translate out when you consider the same thing for Islamic nations that have deeply entwined religious, political amd legal discourse? I'm not sure what your point is Mickey, it sounds suspiciously like whataboutery. From my perspective they're both fucking evil and both fucking wrong. How about you? Not whataboutery at all. Was a genuine question based on the apparent ideology of the main 2 warring parties. And I agree in the sense religion should not be what governs a country or nation state. We do not live in the dark ages..
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Post by OldStokie on Oct 14, 2024 11:59:06 GMT
Look away if you're faint hearted. Genocide. Indeed. This interview is over 30 years old. History is extremely important ... The old fella was repeatedly asked whether they executed the Palestinians in gas chambers. No they don't. Instead they burn women and children in their own homes or blow them to bits or bury them under millions of tons of rubble that were once their homes. He was right to say that some in Israel are Judeo-Nazis. I call them Zionist-Nazis. OS.
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 12:07:04 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 14, 2024 12:07:04 GMT
I'm not sure what your point is Mickey, it sounds suspiciously like whataboutery. From my perspective they're both fucking evil and both fucking wrong. How about you? Not whataboutery at all. Was a genuine question based on the apparent ideology of the main 2 warring parties. And I agree in the sense religion should not be what governs a country or nation state. We do not live in the dark ages.. Indeed. And you agree that this includes Israel?
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Post by gawa on Oct 14, 2024 12:09:07 GMT
I will not be called a terrorist sympathiser while people in this thread for 12 consecutive months make excuse for this. Read the full story here - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_RajabRest in Peace Hind. One of 10s of thousands of children to face the same fate from a terrorist government.
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 12:12:18 GMT
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Post by gawa on Oct 14, 2024 12:12:18 GMT
Israel lied about killing its own citizens on October 7th. Israel lied about being warned about Oxtober 7th. Israel lied about targeting hospitals. Israel lied about targeting schools. And you lot want to believe "oh all this bombing is just because the hostages won't be released" 🤣 The same hostages the IDF were shooting at trying to murder on October 7th when they were on quad bikes. If you give hostages back you can't flatten Gaza can you? If you give hostages back you can't start invading and attacking other nations can you? www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-ending-war-as-part-of-hostage-deal-would-keep-hamas-as-threat-to-israel/I'm shocked that some people still believe anything coming out of Israels mouths. Not that it surprises anyone. But my last post in the thread about the child Israel killed. Yep just another thing they lied about. Because all they do is lie and lie and lie and lie. "Israel claimed that there weren't any troops present in the neighborhood and denied carrying out the attack. However, this was refuted by investigations relying on satellite imagery and visual evidence, which concluded that a number of Israeli tanks were indeed present and one had likely fired 335 rounds on the car that Rajab and her family had been in, with tank operators being able to see that the car had civilians including children in it."
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 14, 2024 12:12:39 GMT
Not whataboutery at all. Was a genuine question based on the apparent ideology of the main 2 warring parties. And I agree in the sense religion should not be what governs a country or nation state. We do not live in the dark ages.. Indeed. And you agree that this includes Israel? Too right it does.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 14, 2024 12:13:36 GMT
What the Fuck are you on about now? I haven't mentioned Prisoners once and which part of being held without charge didn't you understand No need to be a snidey little prick mate. Was simply agreeing with you. Belatedly realized that, wouldn't it have been simpler to C&P in a post to Ariel You may be surprised I don't follow all your conversations avidly
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 12:28:38 GMT
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Post by musik on Oct 14, 2024 12:28:38 GMT
Religious fanaticism is religious fanaticism it's as simple as that. Whether it be Judaism, Islam or any other..... 👌 /Apricot & milk
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 12:59:47 GMT
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 14, 2024 12:59:47 GMT
I will not be called a terrorist sympathiser while people in this thread for 12 consecutive months make excuse for this. Read the full story here - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_RajabRest in Peace Hind. One of 10s of thousands of children to face the same fate from a terrorist government. You can't excuse those actions (cited above)...or any bombardment, territorial encroachment, rocket attack, hostage taking, killing, raping, torturing, etc.... I don't know anyone worth listening to who would. Netanyahu and his government (and previous iterations of it) are as much of a cancer to the whole issue as Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are. They all constantly nurture and provoke ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives rather than promoting any degree of empathy on either side. It's rather up to other people to determine whether they feel you are some sort of terrorist sympathiser given what they read from you.
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 13:07:59 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 14, 2024 13:07:59 GMT
I will not be called a terrorist sympathiser while people in this thread for 12 consecutive months make excuse for this. Read the full story here - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_RajabRest in Peace Hind. One of 10s of thousands of children to face the same fate from a terrorist government. You can't excuse those actions (cited above)...or any bombardment, territorial encroachment, rocket attack, hostage taking, killing, raping, torturing, etc.... I don't know anyone worth listening to who would. Netanyahu and his government (and previous iterations of it) are as much of a cancer to the whole issue as Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are. They all constantly nurture and provoke ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives rather than promoting any degree of empathy on either side. It's rather up to other people to determine whether they feel you are some sort of terrorist sympathiser given what they read from you. I'm pretty certain that you'll find that you are completely isolated on here, when it comes to such a ridiculous claim.
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Israel
Oct 14, 2024 13:20:16 GMT
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 14, 2024 13:20:16 GMT
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