|
Post by roylandstoke on Oct 7, 2024 0:53:35 GMT
The UK government’s continued support of the barbaric Israeli regime should be a source of national shame.
We are facilitating war crimes.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2024 3:11:55 GMT
‘From the river to the sea’ and ‘I ❤️ Hezbollah’ placards all over Londonistan this weekend, I assume they will be tracked down and frogmarched in to televised courts this morning? Don’t hold your breath and more chance of me serving a three year stretch for pointing such out?! How on earth is this allowed every weekend when a Jewish person dare not set foot on the streets of our supposed capital city?
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 7:02:00 GMT
via mobile
lordb likes this
Post by PotteringThrough on Oct 7, 2024 7:02:00 GMT
‘From the river to the sea’ and ‘I ❤️ Hezbollah’ placards all over Londonistan this weekend, I assume they will be tracked down and frogmarched in to televised courts this morning? Don’t hold your breath and more chance of me serving a three year stretch for pointing such out?! How on earth is this allowed every weekend when a Jewish person dare not set foot on the streets of our supposed capital city? Blimey, all over you say - Golders Green has changed…
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 7:54:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 7, 2024 7:54:57 GMT
Is anyone actively pursuing a single state solution? It's something that is possible in principle but if no one is actively pursuing it as an option its dead in the water. No one is saying a two state solution is easy but at least their are credible actors trying to make it happen, including the likes of SaudibArabia and Qatar. One state with a civil rights movement is a concept I got from Palestinians and it's what made me question the ubiquitous nature of two state solution in the political and media class. No one is pushing it in mainstream , but I wish they were. Even just as an alternative to the two state and ongoing occupation/ annexation. Israel has been on a path under Neteyahu of destroying the two state solution, but with a view to a different goal than a democratic one state. Even the idea calls his bluff. Fully annex or leave. Dies the lack of media reporting on a one state solution reflect the lack of activity in support of it? Is there an organised group proposing this solution and do they have international backing? As I said there is nothing wrong in principle about this solution my concern would be the weight of backing to adopt it as a solution.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 7, 2024 8:10:12 GMT
‘From the river to the sea’ and ‘I ❤️ Hezbollah’ placards all over Londonistan this weekend, I assume they will be tracked down and frogmarched in to televised courts this morning? Don’t hold your breath and more chance of me serving a three year stretch for pointing such out?! How on earth is this allowed every weekend when a Jewish person dare not set foot on the streets of our supposed capital city? Plenty of Jewish people have marched safely and peacefully or do they not count? And if "From the River to the Sea" is so anti-Semitic probably best that Netanyahu and his government don't use it......
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 9:18:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 7, 2024 9:18:21 GMT
The UK government’s continued support of the barbaric Israeli regime should be a source of national shame. We are facilitating war crimes. I agree what the Isreali government is doing is barbaric but what do you think would happy to the Jewish people in Isreal if the West were to withdraw their support? I think those opposed to the existence of the State of Isreal (Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and others) would take advantage of the situation and slaughter them. I don't think they would merely force the Isreali government into peaceful existence with the Palestinians - there stated solution to the problem is the eradication of the state of Isreal and that's what they will do. There are other states in the area (like Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Qatar who don't want this and won't help but they will sit back and let it happen so as not to be drawn into the conflict and put their own people at risk. Western government's are treading a very thin line between supporting Isreal's right to exist and condemning what the Isreali government are doing to the Palestinian people. Total withdrawal of support for Isreal in effect is giving up on support for Isreal's right to exist and would lead to its irradication. Is that what you want or why do you think it won't happen?
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 7, 2024 9:50:42 GMT
The UK government’s continued support of the barbaric Israeli regime should be a source of national shame. We are facilitating war crimes. I agree what the Isreali government is doing is barbaric but what do you think would happy to the Jewish people in Isreal if the West were to withdraw their support? I think those opposed to the existence of the State of Isreal (Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and others) would take advantage of the situation and slaughter them. I don't think they would merely force the Isreali government into peaceful existence with the Palestinians - there stated solution to the problem is the eradication of the state of Isreal and that's what they will do. There are other states in the area (like Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Qatar who don't want this and won't help but they will sit back and let it happen so as not to be drawn into the conflict and put their own people at risk. Western government's are treading a very thin line between supporting Isreal's right to exist and condemning what the Isreali government are doing to the Palestinian people. Total withdrawal of support for Isreal in effect is giving up on support for Isreal's right to exist and would lead to its irradication. Is that what you want or why do you think it won't happen? There are hard line members of the Netanyahu government calling for the death and destruction of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, should we withdraw support on the same basis?
|
|
|
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 7, 2024 9:55:34 GMT
‘From the river to the sea’ and ‘I ❤️ Hezbollah’ placards all over Londonistan this weekend, I assume they will be tracked down and frogmarched in to televised courts this morning? Don’t hold your breath and more chance of me serving a three year stretch for pointing such out?! How on earth is this allowed every weekend when a Jewish person dare not set foot on the streets of our supposed capital city? Sometimes, I neither like or understand some people. Innocent Israeli's (men, women, and children) are being killed by terrorist groups. Innocent men, women and children from across the Middle East are being killed in the name of self-defence and collateral damage by the Israeli army and air force. Iran, as the main antagonist, has fingers in both bloody pies - deliberately antagonising both sides so it can destabilise and weaken them both. So, rather than demonstrating a genuine outpouring of love and empathy for the innocent victims of both sides, some people thought it would be far more appropriate to start waving placards around, effectively doing Iran's dirty work for it. Some people, it seems, actually want war.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 10:02:46 GMT
Post by wannabee on Oct 7, 2024 10:02:46 GMT
The UK government’s continued support of the barbaric Israeli regime should be a source of national shame. We are facilitating war crimes. I agree what the Isreali government is doing is barbaric but what do you think would happy to the Jewish people in Isreal if the West were to withdraw their support? I think those opposed to the existence of the State of Isreal (Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and others) would take advantage of the situation and slaughter them. I don't think they would merely force the Isreali government into peaceful existence with the Palestinians - there stated solution to the problem is the eradication of the state of Isreal and that's what they will do. There are other states in the area (like Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Qatar who don't want this and won't help but they will sit back and let it happen so as not to be drawn into the conflict and put their own people at risk. Western government's are treading a very thin line between supporting Isreal's right to exist and condemning what the Isreali government are doing to the Palestinian people. Total withdrawal of support for Isreal in effect is giving up on support for Isreal's right to exist and would lead to its irradication. Is that what you want or why do you think it won't happen? Royland didn't say the West he said UK UKs support is more symbolic than strategic to Israel's defense We know that US holds the key and UKs withdrawal of support would be morally justified, signal a neutral position and put pressure on US to force Israel to the negotiating table to thrash out an equitable peace deal. We know that all Wars end .... except this one, it just goes into a lull where "only" a moderate number of Palestinians are killed each year so the ROW takes no notice.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 10:31:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Oct 7, 2024 10:31:34 GMT
M Ratzin on the news here before. She represents the Swedish Institute and expressed a concern that the antisemitism in Sweden is a major problem. We have a lot of immigrants and according to our political parties groups among them won't be under the radar, and they actually see this as our primary societal issue at the moment.
Ratzin presented no figures but said "we" have a major group who blame Hamas etc and a minor group blaming Israel, and in between a group blaming both sides. Without exact numbers or where her stats comes from they're of no use. She might have said something about that before I turned on the tv though, but I don't think so. In Sweden tv hosts are never asking for sources as I see it.
|
|
|
Post by roylandstoke on Oct 7, 2024 10:31:47 GMT
The UK government’s continued support of the barbaric Israeli regime should be a source of national shame. We are facilitating war crimes. I agree what the Isreali government is doing is barbaric but what do you think would happy to the Jewish people in Isreal if the West were to withdraw their support? I think those opposed to the existence of the State of Isreal (Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and others) would take advantage of the situation and slaughter them. I don't think they would merely force the Isreali government into peaceful existence with the Palestinians - there stated solution to the problem is the eradication of the state of Isreal and that's what they will do. There are other states in the area (like Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Qatar who don't want this and won't help but they will sit back and let it happen so as not to be drawn into the conflict and put their own people at risk. Western government's are treading a very thin line between supporting Isreal's right to exist and condemning what the Isreali government are doing to the Palestinian people. Total withdrawal of support for Isreal in effect is giving up on support for Isreal's right to exist and would lead to its irradication. Is that what you want or why do you think it won't happen? I think it is possible to protect Israel without supporting its continued murder of innocent people.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 7, 2024 10:45:50 GMT
The UK government’s continued support of the barbaric Israeli regime should be a source of national shame. We are facilitating war crimes. I agree what the Isreali government is doing is barbaric but what do you think would happy to the Jewish people in Isreal if the West were to withdraw their support? I think those opposed to the existence of the State of Isreal (Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and others) would take advantage of the situation and slaughter them. I don't think they would merely force the Isreali government into peaceful existence with the Palestinians - there stated solution to the problem is the eradication of the state of Isreal and that's what they will do. There are other states in the area (like Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Qatar who don't want this and won't help but they will sit back and let it happen so as not to be drawn into the conflict and put their own people at risk. Western government's are treading a very thin line between supporting Isreal's right to exist and condemning what the Isreali government are doing to the Palestinian people. Total withdrawal of support for Isreal in effect is giving up on support for Isreal's right to exist and would lead to its irradication. Is that what you want or why do you think it won't happen? This 'fine line' that you speak of, is nothing like as stark as you are pretending it is. The US actually upholding UN resolutions rather than vetoing them would be a start. The use of economic and political sanctions to finally force Israel to end it's 70 years of barbarism, doesn't then mean, that West is going to simply up sticks and leave Israel completely unprotected to any illegitimate attacks, as you are suggesting. We will never foster the conditions for genuine peace talks to begin, all the while that Israel believes that it has a mandate to do whatever it feels like with complete impunity.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 11:29:09 GMT
Post by OldStokie on Oct 7, 2024 11:29:09 GMT
One state with a civil rights movement is a concept I got from Palestinians and it's what made me question the ubiquitous nature of two state solution in the political and media class. No one is pushing it in mainstream , but I wish they were. Even just as an alternative to the two state and ongoing occupation/ annexation. Israel has been on a path under Neteyahu of destroying the two state solution, but with a view to a different goal than a democratic one state. Even the idea calls his bluff. Fully annex or leave. Dies the lack of media reporting on a one state solution reflect the lack of activity in support of it? Is there an organised group proposing this solution and do they have international backing? As I said there is nothing wrong in principle about this solution my concern would be the weight of backing to adopt it as a solution. Unfortunately, a two state solution isn't going to happen. Too much dirty water has gone under the bridge to attain it. Netanyahu has seen to that and has been doing so since he destroyed the Oslo Accords. I watched a brilliant documentary on Sky News about him. They're different but basically he and Putin are two sides of the same coin. Both are ruthless autocrats who will try to destroy anything that doesn't sit well with them. Netanyahu was a brilliant special forces soldier, as was his brother. His brother led the team that rescued the hostages in the Entebbe plane hijacking but was killed in that action. It was at that point when Netanhayu morphed into a complete Zionist agenda. In 1993, Yitzhak Rabin met Yasser Arofat in Camp David in the us and they signed the Oslo Accords that set out the principles of a two state solution. Unfortunately, it was opposed by hardline Zionists and extreme Jihadists including Hamas and was finally destroyed with the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin in 1995. For the next almost 30 years it's been debated whether Netanhayu was behind that assassination. But it's never been proved. And here we are today, Netanhayu carrying out what he's been plotting to do for most of his life; destroying the fabric of the remnants of the Palestinians and the rest of the enemies of Israel. Forget about the hostages. They've become 'collateral damage' in the greater aim of liquidating everything around Israel that threatens to thwart his objectives. So, a two state solution is now a figment of the imagination. This war will run and run until one of the two sides, Zionism or extreme Islamic Jihad, comes out on top. OS.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 12:11:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Oct 7, 2024 12:11:33 GMT
Stats presented now on our National tv.
"One year has gone since the terror organisation Hamas attacked Israel. The attack on October the 7th in 2023 started the war between Israel and Hamas.
More than 41000 people have been killed in Gaza according to the terror organisation Hamas controlled Health department. They don't make a difference between civilians and soldiers. Israel say 17000 of Hamas terror soldiers have been killed in Gaza. No evidence or reports on the number of civilians though.
The war in numbers
More than 96000 people have been injured since the war started when Hamas attacked Israel in a huge attack, with nothing but massacres on unarmed civilians.
The terror organisation Hamas killed more than 1100 persons - most of them civilians. Thousands were injured and about 250 were taken as hostages.
According to Israel about 100 people are still in hostage.
At least 1,9 million people, 90% of the Gaza population, have been forced to escape according to calculations made the the United Nations. Some of them several times.
More than half of the buildings in Gaza have been destroyed. Many of Gaza's hospitals have been destroyed partially or totally. 17 out of 36 hospitals are partly in function according to WHO.
At least 90% of the schools in Gaza are damaged or destroyed. About 625000 pupils haven't been able to continue their education.
346 Israeli soldiers have been killed and 2300 injured in Gaza or along the frontier in Israel since Israel started their land offensive attack in Gaza, according to Israel.
The sources haven't been confirmed by neutral sources."
🤔
Is this correct? Is this as it's presented in England?
|
|
|
Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 7, 2024 12:12:43 GMT
Stats presented now on our National tv. "One year has gone since the terror organisation Hamas attacked Israel. The attack on October the 7th in 2023 started the war between Israel and Hamas. More than 41000 people have been killed in Gaza according to the terror organisation Hamas controlled Health department. The don't make a difference between civilians and soldiers. Israel say 17000 of Hamas terror soldiers have been killed in Gaza. No evidence or reports on the number of civilians though. The war in numbers More than 96000 people have been injured since the war started when Hamas attacked Israel in a huge attack, with nothing but massacres on unarmed civilians. The terror organisation Hamas killed more than 1100 persons - most of them civilians. Thousands were injured and about 250 were taken as hostages. According to Israel about 100 people are still in hostage. At least 1,9 million people, 90% of the Gaza population, have been forced to escape according to calculations made the the United Nations. Some of them several times. More than half of the buildings in Gaza have been destroyed. Many of Gaza's hospitals have been destroyed partially or totally. 17 out of 36 hospitals are partly in function according to WHO. At least 90% of the schools in Gaza are damaged or destroyed. About 625000 pupils haven't been able to continue their education. 346 Israeli soldiers have been killed and 2300 injured in Gaza or along the frontier in Israel since Israel started their land offensive attack in Gaza, according to Israel. The sources haven't been confirmed by neutral sources." 🤔 Is this correct? Is this as it's presented in England? It was fine up until the second sentence.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 12:25:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Oct 7, 2024 12:25:35 GMT
It was fine up until the second sentence. Wrong date? Sometimes they alter the texts during the day when facts have been checked. It would have been an interesting job to have, working from home presenting news. I saw a job ad for this three years ago.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 7, 2024 12:28:03 GMT
It was fine up until the second sentence. Wrong date? Sometimes they alter the texts during the day when facts have been checked. It would have been an interesting job to have, working from home presenting news. I saw a job ad for this three years ago. I think it's more this bit: "The attack on October the 7th in 2023 started the war between Israel and Hamas."
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 12:30:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Oct 7, 2024 12:30:39 GMT
Wrong date? Sometimes they alter the texts during the day when facts have been checked. It would have been an interesting job to have, working from home presenting news. I saw a job ad for this three years ago. I think it's more this bit: "The attack on October the 7th in 2023 started the war between Israel and Hamas." It has been going on longer than that you mean?
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 12:31:30 GMT
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 7, 2024 12:31:30 GMT
I think it's more this bit: "The attack on October the 7th in 2023 started the war between Israel and Hamas." It has been going on longer than that you mean? Yes.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 12:34:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Oct 7, 2024 12:34:34 GMT
It has been going on longer than that you mean? Yes. Wrong date after all then.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 7, 2024 12:39:53 GMT
I agree what the Isreali government is doing is barbaric but what do you think would happy to the Jewish people in Isreal if the West were to withdraw their support? I think those opposed to the existence of the State of Isreal (Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and others) would take advantage of the situation and slaughter them. I don't think they would merely force the Isreali government into peaceful existence with the Palestinians - there stated solution to the problem is the eradication of the state of Isreal and that's what they will do. There are other states in the area (like Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Qatar who don't want this and won't help but they will sit back and let it happen so as not to be drawn into the conflict and put their own people at risk. Western government's are treading a very thin line between supporting Isreal's right to exist and condemning what the Isreali government are doing to the Palestinian people. Total withdrawal of support for Isreal in effect is giving up on support for Isreal's right to exist and would lead to its irradication. Is that what you want or why do you think it won't happen? There are hard line members of the Netanyahu government calling for the death and destruction of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, should we withdraw support on the same basis? I don't understand the point you are making. Hezbollah, Hamas and the current regime in Iran are committed to the destruction of the state of Israel. There are hardliners in the Israeli government hell bent on removing the Palestinians from Israel but the regime is Israel itself is not committed to the eradication of the Palestinian people. If you believe the Isreali state is committed to eradicating the Palestinians then it is consistent to expect the West to withdraw support. However the the consequence is the eradication of the state of Israel and the genocide of the Jews in Israel. If their are posters on here who take this view not a single on of them has been honest about the consequences of that position. The US and the UK position as I understand it is: 1 To support the right of Isreal to exist. Which means providing miltary support to defend itself from those that would eradicate the state of Israel. 2 To support the rights of the Palestinian people in their right to self determination and condemning Isreal when it goes too far in its war with Hamas and continuing land grab in the north. They are doing this in of diplomatic efforts with other to bring about a two state solution. The stance is inherently ambiguous. Forcing this into a binary choice of either fully backing Isreal (which isn't what is happening) or fully withdrawing support from Isreal (which would lead to its eradication) would make matters worse for one side or the other,
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 12:44:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Oct 7, 2024 12:44:04 GMT
The US and the UK position as I understand it is: 1 To support the right of Israel to exist. Which means providing miltary support to defend itself from those that would eradicate the state of Israel. 2 To support the rights of the Palestinian people in their right to self determination and condemning Isreal when it goes too far in its war with Hamas and continuing land grab in the north. They are doing this in of diplomatic efforts with other to bring about a two state solution. Thanks! Have wondered how other nations argue.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 7, 2024 12:50:13 GMT
Dies the lack of media reporting on a one state solution reflect the lack of activity in support of it? Is there an organised group proposing this solution and do they have international backing? As I said there is nothing wrong in principle about this solution my concern would be the weight of backing to adopt it as a solution. Unfortunately, a two state solution isn't going to happen. Too much dirty water has gone under the bridge to attain it. Netanyahu has seen to that and has been doing so since he destroyed the Oslo Accords. I watched a brilliant documentary on Sky News about him. They're different but basically he and Putin are two sides of the same coin. Both are ruthless autocrats who will try to destroy anything that doesn't sit well with them. Netanyahu was a brilliant special forces soldier, as was his brother. His brother led the team that rescued the hostages in the Entebbe plane hijacking but was killed in that action. It was at that point when Netanhayu morphed into a complete Zionist agenda. In 1993, Yitzhak Rabin met Yasser Arofat in Camp David in the us and they signed the Oslo Accords that set out the principles of a two state solution. Unfortunately, it was opposed by hardline Zionists and extreme Jihadists including Hamas and was finally destroyed with the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin in 1995. For the next almost 30 years it's been debated whether Netanhayu was behind that assassination. But it's never been proved. And here we are today, Netanhayu carrying out what he's been plotting to do for most of his life; destroying the fabric of the remnants of the Palestinians and the rest of the enemies of Israel. Forget about the hostages. They've become 'collateral damage' in the greater aim of liquidating everything around Israel that threatens to thwart his objectives. So, a two state solution is now a figment of the imagination. This war will run and run until one of the two sides, Zionism or extreme Islamic Jihad, comes out on top. OS. I don't believe a two state solution is just figment of the imagination - it could happen but it's not going to be easy and looks a long way off at the moment. I understand but don't share your pessimism but as far as I can recall you are the only person on here to have the balls to call it how it is - if a political solution cannot be found then their will either be a genocide of the people of Palestine or the of the Jews in Israel. In terms of outcomes I fully agree with that analysis. My understanding of the UK and US position is that it is trying to prevent genocide either way and if they unilaterally withdraw its support for Israel (which some seem to be suggesting) then it will lead to the genocide of of the Israeli Jews but no-one other than yourself appears to be able to admit that.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 7, 2024 12:51:14 GMT
The US and the UK position as I understand it is: 1 To support the right of Israel to exist. Which means providing miltary support to defend itself from those that would eradicate the state of Israel. 2 To support the rights of the Palestinian people in their right to self determination and condemning Isreal when it goes too far in its war with Hamas and continuing land grab in the north. They are doing this in of diplomatic efforts with other to bring about a two state solution. Thanks! Have wondered how other nations argue. That is my interpretation of the US and UK position - others may disagree.
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Oct 7, 2024 13:06:10 GMT
I think it's more this bit: "The attack on October the 7th in 2023 started the war between Israel and Hamas." It has been going on longer than that you mean? I'd rather not describe them as Statistics but in West Bank at least 700 Palestinians have been killed by IDF since October 7 2023 of which at least 150 are Children with 440 more children injured by Live Ammunition according to UNICEF (July 2024) www.unicef.org/press-releases/child-casualties-west-bank-skyrocket-past-nine-monthsThe reality is that the numbers killed, injured or displaced in West Bank but particularly in Gaza is vastly underreported because it doesn't include deaths due to the complete disintegration of Hospitals and Medical Facilities which at best can provide rudimentary care. When whole families are wiped out and buried under rubble who is left to count.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 13:08:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Oct 7, 2024 13:08:46 GMT
Thanks! Have wondered how other nations argue. That is my interpretation of the US and UK position - others may disagree. I think the above is how Swedish politicians are positioned as well.
|
|
|
Israel
Oct 7, 2024 13:10:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Oct 7, 2024 13:10:49 GMT
‘From the river to the sea’ and ‘I ❤️ Hezbollah’ placards all over Londonistan this weekend, I assume they will be tracked down and frogmarched in to televised courts this morning? Don’t hold your breath and more chance of me serving a three year stretch for pointing such out?! How on earth is this allowed every weekend when a Jewish person dare not set foot on the streets of our supposed capital city? Mate the Jewish bloc was the biggest its been so far. Plenty out marching. I do find the irony quite funny. "We want our country back" "This is a Christian country" "They want sharia law" "Londonstan" Why do you care about the Jewish people so much mate? This is a Christian country. Do you show the same concern for Muslims? Do you also care about the Jewish people out protesting mate? Or is it just the zionists? In which case you don't actually care about jews then. It's zionists your upset about. Lononistan is the funniest one when man's here talking as if he wants the place to be Londonusalem. How much money has Pakistan lobbyists donated to politicians compared to Israeli lobbyists? How much influence does Pakistan have over our country compared to Israel? Basically mate you don't really know what you're talking about do you? You don't want control of our country back because you bow down to the zionist lobby. You don't really care about Christianity because you put Judaism on a pedestal above it. And you clearly have absolutely no clue at all about which group of lobbyists have more influence on this country than any other. You're just a little boy that recites the lines they've learned from their zionist owned media. Well done by the Christmas nativity isn't for another 2 months. Now run along. I'm sure murdoch has a few new lines for you. Maybe one day use thar brain of yours to read a history book
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 7, 2024 13:11:37 GMT
There are hard line members of the Netanyahu government calling for the death and destruction of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, should we withdraw support on the same basis? I don't understand the point you are making. Hezbollah, Hamas and the current regime in Iran are committed to the destruction of the state of Israel. There are hardliners in the Israeli government hell bent on removing the Palestinians from Israel but the regime is Israel itself is not committed to the eradication of the Palestinian people. If you believe the Isreali state is committed to eradicating the Palestinians then it is consistent to expect the West to withdraw support. However the the consequence is the eradication of the state of Israel and the genocide of the Jews in Israel. If their are posters on here who take this view not a single on of them has been honest about the consequences of that position. The US and the UK position as I understand it is: 1 To support the right of Isreal to exist. Which means providing miltary support to defend itself from those that would eradicate the state of Israel. 2 To support the rights of the Palestinian people in their right to self determination and condemning Isreal when it goes too far in its war with Hamas and continuing land grab in the north. They are doing this in of diplomatic efforts with other to bring about a two state solution. The stance is inherently ambiguous. Forcing this into a binary choice of either fully backing Isreal (which isn't what is happening) or fully withdrawing support from Isreal (which would lead to its eradication) would make matters worse for one side or the other, Destruction of the state of Israel can mean two things though can't it? An Israel being replaced by a state that is inclusive for Jews, Muslims, Christians alike (a one state solution essentially) is very different to wiping every Jew in Israel off the face of the planet. I don't believe that the latter is on the agenda from Iran, it may be in the eyes of Hamas and Hezbollah hard liners but as I've said previously, dialogue and quid pro quo agreements between all parties could soon soften that stance. The world is full of examples of neighbouring states/religious groups that were once trying to kill each other now living side by side. When you talk about "support" for Israel that shouldn't be come what may, and the only potential ethnic cleansing/genocide currently taking place is in Gaza not across the border..........
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 7, 2024 13:15:04 GMT
Unfortunately, a two state solution isn't going to happen. Too much dirty water has gone under the bridge to attain it. Netanyahu has seen to that and has been doing so since he destroyed the Oslo Accords. I watched a brilliant documentary on Sky News about him. They're different but basically he and Putin are two sides of the same coin. Both are ruthless autocrats who will try to destroy anything that doesn't sit well with them. Netanyahu was a brilliant special forces soldier, as was his brother. His brother led the team that rescued the hostages in the Entebbe plane hijacking but was killed in that action. It was at that point when Netanhayu morphed into a complete Zionist agenda. In 1993, Yitzhak Rabin met Yasser Arofat in Camp David in the us and they signed the Oslo Accords that set out the principles of a two state solution. Unfortunately, it was opposed by hardline Zionists and extreme Jihadists including Hamas and was finally destroyed with the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin in 1995. For the next almost 30 years it's been debated whether Netanhayu was behind that assassination. But it's never been proved. And here we are today, Netanhayu carrying out what he's been plotting to do for most of his life; destroying the fabric of the remnants of the Palestinians and the rest of the enemies of Israel. Forget about the hostages. They've become 'collateral damage' in the greater aim of liquidating everything around Israel that threatens to thwart his objectives. So, a two state solution is now a figment of the imagination. This war will run and run until one of the two sides, Zionism or extreme Islamic Jihad, comes out on top. OS. I don't believe a two state solution is just figment of the imagination - it could happen but it's not going to be easy and looks a long way off at the moment. I understand but don't share your pessimism but as far as I can recall you are the only person on here to have the balls to call it how it is - if a political solution cannot be found then their will either be a genocide of the people of Palestine or the of the Jews in Israel. In terms of outcomes I fully agree with that analysis. My understanding of the UK and US position is that it is trying to prevent genocide either way and if they unilaterally withdraw its support for Israel (which some seem to be suggesting) then it will lead to the genocide of of the Israeli Jews but no-one other than yourself appears to be able to admit that. How are the US/UK governments trying to prevent a genocide in Gaza just out of interest? Deaths rise, and we use weasel words in public telling Israel to stick to international law, which of course they don't.......
|
|
|
Post by musik on Oct 7, 2024 13:16:07 GMT
I'd rather not describe them as (just) Statistics but Me neither. Only 1 would be too many. Wars shouldn't exist!
|
|