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Post by superjw on Apr 19, 2024 6:42:52 GMT
I assume Britain, USA and others didn’t intervene in the skies to stop attacks in the name of trying to keep the peace this time?
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Israel
Apr 19, 2024 7:03:07 GMT
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Post by thisisouryear on Apr 19, 2024 7:03:07 GMT
I’ll say it again, we need to dump the Israelis and let them face the full brunt of the consequences of being so utterly reckless!!! The last thing we need right now is a full scale war in the broader Middle East! Not only will the human suffering be huge but the wider implications of rising fuel prices could cripple the entire world! Not gonna happen is it. Israel is the only Jewish country, I would assume protecting it on behalf of the Jewish population is what we and the US feel is most important but they really don't make it easy do they.
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Israel
Apr 19, 2024 7:18:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by scfcno1fan on Apr 19, 2024 7:18:35 GMT
Well this could escalate now and possibly drag us into another war to protect Israel, or Iran will shit the bed. Iran's strike was a bit pathetic so there is every chance they will want out of any war and descalate this quickly but it wouldn't really be a good look for a country like Iran who always want to look tough on the world stage. What are Iran's options given how their last attack was a bit shite? Go big or go home? Send troops to surrounding countries and take the war to Israel on the ground? Any option which involves conflict doesn't look good for Iran Iran seek to be playing it down so far….
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Israel
Apr 19, 2024 7:34:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by thisisouryear on Apr 19, 2024 7:34:46 GMT
Well this could escalate now and possibly drag us into another war to protect Israel, or Iran will shit the bed. Iran's strike was a bit pathetic so there is every chance they will want out of any war and descalate this quickly but it wouldn't really be a good look for a country like Iran who always want to look tough on the world stage. What are Iran's options given how their last attack was a bit shite? Go big or go home? Send troops to surrounding countries and take the war to Israel on the ground? Any option which involves conflict doesn't look good for Iran Iran seek to be playing it down so far…. Iran have been asked the question after giving it the bigun all week. They have to hit back now don't they or they look weak. I can only see it escalating, they might just be slower to respond next time so that it's more of a surprise
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Post by serpico on Apr 19, 2024 7:43:08 GMT
The Americans could easily stop this, all they had to do was threaten Israel with cutting off aid/weapons flow etc instead the decrepit Biden just asked them to “take the win”… Netenyahu knows he has the unconditional support of the Americans, the Israelis could fire missiles at a US ship and the Americans would still support them! … oh yeh, sorry, I forgot, they already did that back in 67!
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Post by wannabee on Apr 19, 2024 7:44:33 GMT
The word on the street is "The West" persuaded Israel to only take a limited retaliation, presumably this is it, on Iran and not to "go evil on their ass™" In exchange "The West" won't make a big fuss when Israel launches the ground offensive in Rafah So "The West" took the "Moral Position" to not provoke a potential full scale Mid East War but instead to escalate the Genocide in Gaza If true, we will know soon enough, it's a huge victory for Netanyahu as he knows he has "The West" over a barrel (of oil) ™Pulp Fiction
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Post by Gods on Apr 19, 2024 8:13:03 GMT
Iran seek to be playing it down so far…. Iran have been asked the question after giving it the bigun all week. They have to hit back now don't they or they look weak. I can only see it escalating, they might just be slower to respond next time so that it's more of a surprise I wonder what Iran can really do though? I mean they winged some 300 devices Israel's way last week and couldn't land one. Conversely Israel can hit them with impunity inside and outside of Iran. It's the same with Hamas, they had a few home made rockets and kids in skinny jeans and vests with a few sling shots and a pile of stones. Meantime the US and majorly Germany it must be said, have armed Israel up to the teeth with the latest high tech. That's why it makes me laugh when Israel imply Palestinians are somehow cheating by building these pesky tunnels, like they should instead just stand up their annihilation like a man!
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Israel
Apr 19, 2024 8:19:22 GMT
via mobile
Gods likes this
Post by thisisouryear on Apr 19, 2024 8:19:22 GMT
Iran have been asked the question after giving it the bigun all week. They have to hit back now don't they or they look weak. I can only see it escalating, they might just be slower to respond next time so that it's more of a surprise I wonder what Iran can really do though? I mean they winged some 300 devices Israel's way last week and couldn't land one. Conversely Israel can hit them with impunity inside and outside of Iran. It's the same with Hamas, they had a few home made rockets and kids in skinny jeans and vests with a few sling shots and a pile of stones. Meantime the West, and majorly Germany it must be said, have armed Israel up to the teeth with the latest high tech. That's why it makes me laugh when Israel imply Palestinians are somehow cheating by building these pesky tunnels, like they should just stand up their annihilation like a man! They can't really do anything, a ground offensive might be an option as it shouldn't be difficult getting a large number of people to go to war for them against Israel. They may be able to attract people from other countries to fight for them through religion. It's probably their only way for any real success because the firework display they put on last week was just pathetic in how much damage it caused.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 19, 2024 8:38:00 GMT
Well this could escalate now and possibly drag us into another war to protect Israel, or Iran will shit the bed. Iran's strike was a bit pathetic so there is every chance they will want out of any war and descalate this quickly but it wouldn't really be a good look for a country like Iran who always want to look tough on the world stage. What are Iran's options given how their last attack was a bit shite? Go big or go home? Send troops to surrounding countries and take the war to Israel on the ground? Any option which involves conflict doesn't look good for Iran Iran seek to be playing it down so far….
Indeed.
Hopefully there are some grown-up's still in the arena, who, despite extreme provocation from Israel and no condemnation from the West whatsoever of the bombing of their consulate in Damascus, realise, that Nethanyu's callous attempt to escalate the war outside of Israel, creating a wider conflict, isn't going to benefit anybody.
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Israel
Apr 19, 2024 8:42:35 GMT
Post by knype on Apr 19, 2024 8:42:35 GMT
Iran seek to be playing it down so far…. Indeed. Hopefully there are some grown-up's still in the arena, who, despite extreme provocation from Israel and no condemnation from the West whatsoever of the bombing of their consulate in Damascus, realise, that Nethanyu's callous attempt to escalate the war outside of Israel, creating a wider conflict, isn't going to benefit anybody.
Pretty sure its been proven that the consulate wasn't hit and it was the Iranian Republican Guards building next door to the consulate that was targetted and successfully damaged?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 19, 2024 9:00:16 GMT
Indeed. Hopefully there are some grown-up's still in the arena, who, despite extreme provocation from Israel and no condemnation from the West whatsoever of the bombing of their consulate in Damascus, realise, that Nethanyu's callous attempt to escalate the war outside of Israel, creating a wider conflict, isn't going to benefit anybody.
Pretty sure its been proven that the consulate wasn't hit and it was the Iranian Republican Guards building next door to the consulate that was targetted and successfully damaged?
Numerous major news broadcasters around the world have reported it as an attack on the consulate knype.
Israel have claimed that it wasn't the consulate itself but a building that is a part of the consulate complex.
Now let's say that Israel's splitting of hairs, is the actual truth (and that's a pretty big 'if' to begin with) what does that actually matter, in the context of the point I was making?
If the Iranian's had bombed a building that is part of the Israeli consulate complex in London last week, what sort of reaction would you anticipate would have taken place?
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Israel
Apr 19, 2024 9:56:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by shakermaker on Apr 19, 2024 9:56:02 GMT
I wonder what Iran can really do though? I mean they winged some 300 devices Israel's way last week and couldn't land one. Conversely Israel can hit them with impunity inside and outside of Iran. It's the same with Hamas, they had a few home made rockets and kids in skinny jeans and vests with a few sling shots and a pile of stones. Meantime the West, and majorly Germany it must be said, have armed Israel up to the teeth with the latest high tech. That's why it makes me laugh when Israel imply Palestinians are somehow cheating by building these pesky tunnels, like they should just stand up their annihilation like a man! They can't really do anything, a ground offensive might be an option as it shouldn't be difficult getting a large number of people to go to war for them against Israel. They may be able to attract people from other countries to fight for them through religion. It's probably their only way for any real success because the firework display they put on last week was just pathetic in how much damage it caused. Russia and Iran are still allies aren’t they? Though Russia have their hands full with losing half their army in Ukraine at the moment. Sure I’ve read that North Korea supply arms to Iran as well. Could that supply chain be upgraded if a Middle East war escalates?
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Post by wannabee on Apr 19, 2024 10:16:14 GMT
They can't really do anything, a ground offensive might be an option as it shouldn't be difficult getting a large number of people to go to war for them against Israel. They may be able to attract people from other countries to fight for them through religion. It's probably their only way for any real success because the firework display they put on last week was just pathetic in how much damage it caused. Russia and Iran are still allies aren’t they? Though Russia have their hands full with losing half their army in Ukraine at the moment. Sure I’ve read that North Korea supply arms to Iran as well. Could that supply chain be upgraded if a Middle East war escalates? China and Iran are very close allies with China investing Billions into Iran. It's why sanctions are futile
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Israel
Apr 19, 2024 10:25:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by thisisouryear on Apr 19, 2024 10:25:28 GMT
They can't really do anything, a ground offensive might be an option as it shouldn't be difficult getting a large number of people to go to war for them against Israel. They may be able to attract people from other countries to fight for them through religion. It's probably their only way for any real success because the firework display they put on last week was just pathetic in how much damage it caused. Russia and Iran are still allies aren’t they? Though Russia have their hands full with losing half their army in Ukraine at the moment. Sure I’ve read that North Korea supply arms to Iran as well. Could that supply chain be upgraded if a Middle East war escalates? I'm sure they would love to get rid of Israel for good as it would be one less place for the US to use as a base. If Iran want to go further I'm sure there will be many countries that will help them by improving their supply chains. Whether the weapons are any good is another thing but their biggest strength would be in numbers. The population of Israel is only around 10 million so it should be careful if a war with Iran does escalate as there would be many Muslims that would go to fight against them. Not sure what numbers they could get but I'd imagine significantly bigger than the Israeli army
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Israel
Apr 20, 2024 4:39:19 GMT
Post by knype on Apr 20, 2024 4:39:19 GMT
Pretty sure its been proven that the consulate wasn't hit and it was the Iranian Republican Guards building next door to the consulate that was targetted and successfully damaged? Numerous major news broadcasters around the world have reported it as an attack on the consulate knype. Israel have claimed that it wasn't the consulate itself but a building that is a part of the consulate complex. Now let's say that Israel's splitting of hairs, is the actual truth (and that's a pretty big 'if' to begin with) what does that actually matter, in the context of the point I was making? If the Iranian's had bombed a building that is part of the Israeli consulate complex in London last week, what sort of reaction would you anticipate would have taken place?
Surely it matters a lot if it was a military target that was hit and not the consulate?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 20, 2024 7:26:40 GMT
Numerous major news broadcasters around the world have reported it as an attack on the consulate knype. Israel have claimed that it wasn't the consulate itself but a building that is a part of the consulate complex. Now let's say that Israel's splitting of hairs, is the actual truth (and that's a pretty big 'if' to begin with) what does that actually matter, in the context of the point I was making? If the Iranian's had bombed a building that is part of the Israeli consulate complex in London last week, what sort of reaction would you anticipate would have taken place?
Surely it matters a lot if it was a military target that was hit and not the consulate? I've answered that question already knype. Read the question I posed to you again and hopefully you'll realise.
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Israel
Apr 20, 2024 8:22:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by roylandstoke on Apr 20, 2024 8:22:13 GMT
Iran have been asked the question after giving it the bigun all week. They have to hit back now don't they or they look weak. I can only see it escalating, they might just be slower to respond next time so that it's more of a surprise I wonder what Iran can really do though? I mean they winged some 300 devices Israel's way last week and couldn't land one. Conversely Israel can hit them with impunity inside and outside of Iran. It's the same with Hamas, they had a few home made rockets and kids in skinny jeans and vests with a few sling shots and a pile of stones. Meantime the US and majorly Germany it must be said, have armed Israel up to the teeth with the latest high tech. That's why it makes me laugh when Israel imply Palestinians are somehow cheating by building these pesky tunnels, like they should instead just stand up their annihilation like a man! While the leaders of Israeli state terrorism continue to hide behind the human shield of civilians and the protection of the military forces of UK and USA, there is very little Iran can do. Maybe they will attack Israelis in other parts of the world.
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Post by gawa on Apr 20, 2024 11:14:27 GMT
Not sure if its been posted but this is an excellent interview
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Post by Gods on Apr 20, 2024 12:20:01 GMT
Not sure if its been posted but this is an excellent interview By jove, thats a good listen.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 20, 2024 17:55:57 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Apr 20, 2024 19:17:37 GMT
Not just West Bank but East Jerusalem too Under cover of Oct 7 kill 33K and counting Gazans mostly women and children and flatten Gaza making it uninhabitable At the same time push the Palestinians in the Occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem into a smaller and smaller enclaves making it easier to control I thought someone was saying recently on here that a Two State Solution was edging closer, yeah right. The new settlements will offer homes for Israel’s majority Jewish population in parts of Jerusalem that were unilaterally annexed by Israel in 1980, and are likely to be an obstacle to any attempt to create a viable Palestinian state with the east of the city as its capital. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/17/revealed-israel-has-sped-up-settlement-building-in-east-jerusalem-since-gaza-war-began
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Post by roylandstoke on Apr 20, 2024 23:55:33 GMT
The terrorist, genocidal Israeli government will continue to ignore international law, until the US, and other western governments including UK, end it’s financial and military aid.
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Post by gawa on Apr 21, 2024 18:07:42 GMT
It's disgusting to see the same individuals week after week attend Palestine marches only with the intention to incite trouble and then subsequently creating a victimised twitter storm after too.
Here's a new one from this weekend who was walking against a protest to try and get a reaction and cause trouble. Now it's suddenly "identifiable jewish man stopped from crossing the road"
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 21, 2024 18:37:29 GMT
It's disgusting to see the same individuals week after week attend Palestine marches only with the intention to incite trouble and then subsequently creating a victimised twitter storm after too. Here's a new one from this weekend who was walking against a protest to try and get a reaction and cause trouble. Now it's suddenly "identifiable jewish man stopped from crossing the road" There is a much longer (15 min or so) video of the entire incident and it puts into context what actually happened. (Unfortunately I can't find it right now). You've got to feel really sorry for the copper, he's got the patience of a saint and really, he should just have arrested him on the spot. And Falter is now trying to get the copper sacked! Sickening. EDIT: Found it ... news.sky.com/story/sky-news-footage-reveals-new-details-of-exchange-between-police-and-antisemitism-campaigner-called-openly-jewish-13120104
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 21, 2024 19:17:47 GMT
It's disgusting to see the same individuals week after week attend Palestine marches only with the intention to incite trouble and then subsequently creating a victimised twitter storm after too. Here's a new one from this weekend who was walking against a protest to try and get a reaction and cause trouble. Now it's suddenly "identifiable jewish man stopped from crossing the road" There is a much longer (15 min or so) video of the entire incident and it puts into context what actually happened. (Unfortunately I can't find it right now). You've got to feel really sorry for the copper, he's got the paitent of a saint and really, he should just have arrested him on the spot. And Falter is now trying to get the copper sacked! Sickening. I agree with your sentiments about the Policeman being in a difficult situation, but I'm not sure he could legally arrest him. If he had done so, I think we would be in a a whole different set of circumstances " Police arrest innocent man for exercising his freedom/ right to walk where he wants" probably a wrongful arrest, perhaps what the Victim wants. I've pondered what I could/would have done and wondered what the public expect the Police to do. Perhaps he could have " discussed" with him all the options and possibly let him walk " through" the demonstration....any public order consequence is possibly the fault of the " Jewish man" ...he may have got injured, killed, caused a riot...but , hey, he has proved his point. Perhaps the Policeman could have used different words...but in this case , in the real situation, does it really matter? Perhaps he could have said " As a Jewish man you are putting yourself at risk by walking near to the demonstration, but if that is what you want to do, so be it". I actually can't see alot wrong with what he said... most people would just ignore it and get on with it. In a public order situation Police are not looking to make arrests, but to preserve the peace and protect life . To arrest someone would take the police officer out of a crowd control situation. It's a long time since I was in the Police but I'd imagine " crowd control/ Police " instruction" to not to do something/ to go in a different direction is part of common law and MOST IMPORTANTLY is simply dependent upon the understanding that the officer is acting in your best interests, on your behalf. When I was in remotely similar situations the last thing on my mind was the politics of it, but then we didn't have cameras , social media. I can recall many incidences where the police/ myself even had to make difficult decisions at a young inexperienced age. Once in the middle of Stoke, literally, on the central refuge across what was then the Wheatsheaf ( Wetherspoons ) a young girl ( 16 ?) dropped litter . Me " pick it up" " No" ...laughing , thinking it was funny.. Eventually she did, I could presumably reported her....if she refused to give her name address, we are in a new ball game. Obviously some on the Oatcake will be saying it is obvious what you should do....but they have not had to deal with the public on a daily basis. I could literally give loads of examples...I once went to a car waiting ( for a few seconds) on double yellow lines to pick his wife up outside Spodes. Using my discretion ( and seeing his wife approaching) I warned him and did no more. A man ran across the road, asked me what I had done and said " Right , I'm ringing radio Stoke to tell them that the Police have said it is OK to park on double yellow lines". I remember this because it was on my first day as a Policeman There was a man who used to ring Stoke police station every week to admit to any offence that he had heard reported. He hadn't done them, but he had got a criminal record. Do you investigate every one? Unlikely an offence of wasting police time would carry. Another very very wealthy man ( a heir to one of the major potbanks) used to ring the Police ( weekly) to report that he had been robbed...he simply couldn't find something in the house( I went round once , to find his missing Lp ( vinyl ' musical recording!!) on the turntable.Even at the time we knew he had some sort of dementia, but he was also regarded as eccentric...he always came to the door in a dressing gown or full suit and tie, but always with a glass of Whisky in his hand. He blamed the thefts on a " Polish family " who lived down the road. Several times people would ring up to report a youngster missing at 6.00pm...." please get 20 officers ( who don't exist) out to look for her....9.00 pm..." she's turned up now, at a friend's we didn't know about".....if the Police did nothing , they would be criticised. Extea officers could be brought on on overtime, but the cost would be incredible, given the amount of people reported missing Controversially for some on here, a past friend in London, not the Met, had a reliable report of someone ( two actually) people carrying a weapon in a particular area. Do the Police stop and search everyone meeting the description in that area, do nothing or just increase the presence in the area? Whatever they do someone could argue thst something different should have been done. ( I would also add there have been untrue descriptios offfered so that some people would get stopped and searched....so that they could have some fun with the Police and claim they are being victimised when no weapons ate found. To watch every word that you say, when trying to do your best, must be difficult for today's officers.
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Israel
Apr 21, 2024 19:29:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 21, 2024 19:29:48 GMT
There is a much longer (15 min or so) video of the entire incident and it puts into context what actually happened. (Unfortunately I can't find it right now). You've got to feel really sorry for the copper, he's got the paitent of a saint and really, he should just have arrested him on the spot. And Falter is now trying to get the copper sacked! Sickening. I agree with your sentiments about the Policeman being in a difficult situation, but I'm not sure he could legally arrest him. If he had done so, I think we would be in a a whole different ser of circumstances " Police arrest innocent man for exercising his freedom/ right to walk where he wants" probably a wrongful arrest, perhaps what the Victim wants. I've pondered what I could/would have done and wondered what the public expect the Police to do. Perhaps he could have " discussed" with him all the options and possibly let him walk " thtough" the demonstration....any public order consequence is possibly the fault of the " Jewish man" ...he may have got injured, killed caused a riot...but , hey, he has proved his point. Perhaps the Policeman could have used different words...but in this case , in the real situation, does it really matter? Perhaps he could have said " As a Jewish man you are putting yourself at risk by walking near to the demonstration, but if that is what you want to fo, so be it". I actually can't see alot wrong with what he said... most people would just ignore it and get on with it. In a public order situation Police are not looking to make arrests, but to preserve the peace and protect life . To arrest someone would take the police officer out of a crowd control situation. It's a long time since I was in the Police but I'd imagine " crowd control/ Police " instruction" to not to do something/ to go in a different direction is part of common law and MOST IMPORTANTLY is simply dependent upin the understanding thst the officer is acting in your best interests, on your behalf. When I was in remotely similar situations the last thing on my mind was the politics of it, but then we didn't have cameras , social media. I can recall many incidences where the police/ myself even had to make difficult decisions at a young inexperienced age. Once in the middle of Stoke, literally, on the central refuge across what was then the Wheatsheaf ( Wetherspoons ) a young girl ( 16 ?) dropped litter . Me " pick it up" " No" ...laughing , thinking it was funny.. Eventually she did, I could presumably reported her....if she refused to give her name address, we are in a new ball game. Obviously some on the Oatcake will be saying it is obvious what you should do....but they have not had to deal with the public on a daily basis. I could literally give loads of examples...I once went to a car waiting ( for a few seconds) on double yellow lines to pick his wife up outside Spodes. Using my discretion ( and seeing his wife approaching) I warned him and did no more. Amanda ran across the road, asked me what I had done and said " Right , I'm ringing radio Stoke to tell the the Police have said it is OK to park on double yellow lines. I remember this because it wad on my first day as a Policeman There was a man who usefto ring Stoke police station every week to admit to any offence that he had heard reported. He hadn't done them, but he had got a criminal record. Do you investigate every one? Unlikely an offence of wasting police time would carry. Another very very wealthy man ( a heir to one of the major potbanks) useful ring the Police ( weekly) to report that he had been robbed...he simply couldn't find something in the house( I went round once , to find his missing Lp ( vinyl ' musical recording!!) on the turntable.Even at the time we knew he had sime sort of dementia, but he was also regarded as eccentric...he always came to the door in a dressing gown or full suit and tie, but always with a glassof Whisky in his hand. He blamed the thefts on a " Poliish family " who lived downthe road. Several times people would ring up to report a youngster missing at 6.00pm...." please get 20 officers ( who don't exist) out to look for her....9.00 pm..." she's turned up now, at a friend's we didn't know ability ".....if the Police did nothing , they would be criticised. Controversially for some on here, a past friend in London, not the Met, had a reliable report of someone ( two actually) people carrying a weapon in a particular area. Do the Police stop and search everyone meeting the description in thAat area, do nothing or just increase the presence in the area? Whatever they do someone could argue thst something different should have been done. To watch every word that you say, when trying to do your best, must be difficult for today's officers. You don’t live there so you couldn’t possibly know, experience counts for nothing etc…..
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Post by Han Solo on Apr 21, 2024 19:34:27 GMT
There is a much longer (15 min or so) video of the entire incident and it puts into context what actually happened. (Unfortunately I can't find it right now). You've got to feel really sorry for the copper, he's got the paitent of a saint and really, he should just have arrested him on the spot. And Falter is now trying to get the copper sacked! Sickening. I agree with your sentiments about the Policeman being in a difficult situation, but I'm not sure he could legally arrest him. If he had done so, I think we would be in a a whole different ser of circumstances " Police arrest innocent man for exercising his freedom/ right to walk where he wants" probably a wrongful arrest, perhaps what the Victim wants. I've pondered what I could/would have done and wondered what the public expect the Police to do. Perhaps he could have " discussed" with him all the options and possibly let him walk " thtough" the demonstration....any public order consequence is possibly the fault of the " Jewish man" ...he may have got injured, killed caused a riot...but , hey, he has proved his point. Perhaps the Policeman could have used different words...but in this case , in the real situation, does it really matter? Perhaps he could have said " As a Jewish man you are putting yourself at risk by walking near to the demonstration, but if that is what you want to fo, so be it". I actually can't see alot wrong with what he said... most people would just ignore it and get on with it. In a public order situation Police are not looking to make arrests, but to preserve the peace and protect life . To arrest someone would take the police officer out of a crowd control situation. It's a long time since I was in the Police but I'd imagine " crowd control/ Police " instruction" to not to do something/ to go in a different direction is part of common law and MOST IMPORTANTLY is simply dependent upin the understanding thst the officer is acting in your best interests, on your behalf. When I was in remotely similar situations the last thing on my mind was the politics of it, but then we didn't have cameras , social media. I can recall many incidences where the police/ myself even had to make difficult decisions at a young inexperienced age. Once in the middle of Stoke, literally, on the central refuge across what was then the Wheatsheaf ( Wetherspoons ) a young girl ( 16 ?) dropped litter . Me " pick it up" " No" ...laughing , thinking it was funny.. Eventually she did, I could presumably reported her....if she refused to give her name address, we are in a new ball game. Obviously some on the Oatcake will be saying it is obvious what uou should do....but they have not had to deal with the public on a daily basis. I could literally give loads of examples...I once went to a car waiting ( for a few seconds) on double yellow lines to pick his wife up outside Spodes. Using my discretion ( and seeing his wife approaching) I warned him and did no more. Amanda ran across the road, asked me what I had done and said " Right , I'm ringing radio Stoke to tell the the Police have said it is OK to park on double yellow lines. I remember this because it wad on my first day as a Policeman There was a man who usefto ring Stoke police station every week to admit to any offence that he had heard reported. He hadn't done them, but he had got a criminal record. Do you investigate every one? Unlikely an offence of wasting police time would carry. Another very very wealthy man ( a heir to one of the major potbanks) useful ring the Police ( weekly) to report that he had been robbed...he simply couldn't find something in the house( I went round once , to find his missing Lp ( vinyl ' musical recording!!) on the turntable. Several times people would ring up to report a youngster misding at 6.00pm...." please get 20 officers ( who don't exist) out to look for her....9.00 pm..." she's turned up now, at a friend's we didn't know ability ".....if the Police did nothing , they would be criticised. Controversially for some on here, a past friend in London, not the Met, had a reliable report of someone ( two actually) people carrying a weapon in a particular area. Do the Police stop and search everyone meeting the description in thAat area, do nothing or just increase the presence in the area? Whatever they do someone could argue thst something different should have been done. To watch every word thst you say, when trying to do your best, must ne difficult for today's officers. Excellent post BJR. He’s an agitator and he’s not the first one to go down this route either. I know nothing about him but it’s disgusting that he’s trying to lose the officer his job just so he can play the victim. Yes perhaps the officers been a little clumsy with his wording but he was in a very difficult situation and trying to do the right thing as you say to keep the public safe. There’s loads of these characters around from all sides of the political spectrum who will manipulate a situation for their own political gain and use the police as stooges when there videos are edited to show them in the worst possible way supported by the media. We shouldn’t let our political bias think he’s the first or the last.
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Post by mrnovember on Apr 21, 2024 20:35:53 GMT
There is a much longer (15 min or so) video of the entire incident and it puts into context what actually happened. (Unfortunately I can't find it right now). You've got to feel really sorry for the copper, he's got the paitent of a saint and really, he should just have arrested him on the spot. And Falter is now trying to get the copper sacked! Sickening. I agree with your sentiments about the Policeman being in a difficult situation, but I'm not sure he could legally arrest him. If he had done so, I think we would be in a a whole different set of circumstances " Police arrest innocent man for exercising his freedom/ right to walk where he wants" probably a wrongful arrest, perhaps what the Victim wants. I've pondered what I could/would have done and wondered what the public expect the Police to do. Perhaps he could have " discussed" with him all the options and possibly let him walk " through" the demonstration....any public order consequence is possibly the fault of the " Jewish man" ...he may have got injured, killed, caused a riot...but , hey, he has proved his point. Perhaps the Policeman could have used different words...but in this case , in the real situation, does it really matter? Perhaps he could have said " As a Jewish man you are putting yourself at risk by walking near to the demonstration, but if that is what you want to do, so be it". I actually can't see alot wrong with what he said... most people would just ignore it and get on with it. In a public order situation Police are not looking to make arrests, but to preserve the peace and protect life . To arrest someone would take the police officer out of a crowd control situation. It's a long time since I was in the Police but I'd imagine " crowd control/ Police " instruction" to not to do something/ to go in a different direction is part of common law and MOST IMPORTANTLY is simply dependent upon the understanding that the officer is acting in your best interests, on your behalf. When I was in remotely similar situations the last thing on my mind was the politics of it, but then we didn't have cameras , social media. I can recall many incidences where the police/ myself even had to make difficult decisions at a young inexperienced age. Once in the middle of Stoke, literally, on the central refuge across what was then the Wheatsheaf ( Wetherspoons ) a young girl ( 16 ?) dropped litter . Me " pick it up" " No" ...laughing , thinking it was funny.. Eventually she did, I could presumably reported her....if she refused to give her name address, we are in a new ball game. Obviously some on the Oatcake will be saying it is obvious what you should do....but they have not had to deal with the public on a daily basis. I could literally give loads of examples...I once went to a car waiting ( for a few seconds) on double yellow lines to pick his wife up outside Spodes. Using my discretion ( and seeing his wife approaching) I warned him and did no more. A man ran across the road, asked me what I had done and said " Right , I'm ringing radio Stoke to tell them that the Police have said it is OK to park on double yellow lines". I remember this because it was on my first day as a Policeman There was a man who used to ring Stoke police station every week to admit to any offence that he had heard reported. He hadn't done them, but he had got a criminal record. Do you investigate every one? Unlikely an offence of wasting police time would carry. Another very very wealthy man ( a heir to one of the major potbanks) used to ring the Police ( weekly) to report that he had been robbed...he simply couldn't find something in the house( I went round once , to find his missing Lp ( vinyl ' musical recording!!) on the turntable.Even at the time we knew he had some sort of dementia, but he was also regarded as eccentric...he always came to the door in a dressing gown or full suit and tie, but always with a glass of Whisky in his hand. He blamed the thefts on a " Polish family " who lived down the road. Several times people would ring up to report a youngster missing at 6.00pm...." please get 20 officers ( who don't exist) out to look for her....9.00 pm..." she's turned up now, at a friend's we didn't know about".....if the Police did nothing , they would be criticised. Extea officers could be brought on on overtime, but the cost would be incredible, given the amount of people reported missing Controversially for some on here, a past friend in London, not the Met, had a reliable report of someone ( two actually) people carrying a weapon in a particular area. Do the Police stop and search everyone meeting the description in that area, do nothing or just increase the presence in the area? Whatever they do someone could argue thst something different should have been done. ( I would also add there have been untrue descriptios offfered so that some people would get stopped and searched....so that they could have some fun with the Police and claim they are being victimised when no weapons ate found. To watch every word that you say, when trying to do your best, must be difficult for today's officers. The question is, why would a Jewish man be at risk walking alongside this demonstration?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 21, 2024 20:46:50 GMT
I agree with your sentiments about the Policeman being in a difficult situation, but I'm not sure he could legally arrest him. If he had done so, I think we would be in a a whole different set of circumstances " Police arrest innocent man for exercising his freedom/ right to walk where he wants" probably a wrongful arrest, perhaps what the Victim wants. I've pondered what I could/would have done and wondered what the public expect the Police to do. Perhaps he could have " discussed" with him all the options and possibly let him walk " through" the demonstration....any public order consequence is possibly the fault of the " Jewish man" ...he may have got injured, killed, caused a riot...but , hey, he has proved his point. Perhaps the Policeman could have used different words...but in this case , in the real situation, does it really matter? Perhaps he could have said " As a Jewish man you are putting yourself at risk by walking near to the demonstration, but if that is what you want to do, so be it". I actually can't see alot wrong with what he said... most people would just ignore it and get on with it. In a public order situation Police are not looking to make arrests, but to preserve the peace and protect life . To arrest someone would take the police officer out of a crowd control situation. It's a long time since I was in the Police but I'd imagine " crowd control/ Police " instruction" to not to do something/ to go in a different direction is part of common law and MOST IMPORTANTLY is simply dependent upon the understanding that the officer is acting in your best interests, on your behalf. When I was in remotely similar situations the last thing on my mind was the politics of it, but then we didn't have cameras , social media. I can recall many incidences where the police/ myself even had to make difficult decisions at a young inexperienced age. Once in the middle of Stoke, literally, on the central refuge across what was then the Wheatsheaf ( Wetherspoons ) a young girl ( 16 ?) dropped litter . Me " pick it up" " No" ...laughing , thinking it was funny.. Eventually she did, I could presumably reported her....if she refused to give her name address, we are in a new ball game. Obviously some on the Oatcake will be saying it is obvious what you should do....but they have not had to deal with the public on a daily basis. I could literally give loads of examples...I once went to a car waiting ( for a few seconds) on double yellow lines to pick his wife up outside Spodes. Using my discretion ( and seeing his wife approaching) I warned him and did no more. A man ran across the road, asked me what I had done and said " Right , I'm ringing radio Stoke to tell them that the Police have said it is OK to park on double yellow lines". I remember this because it was on my first day as a Policeman There was a man who used to ring Stoke police station every week to admit to any offence that he had heard reported. He hadn't done them, but he had got a criminal record. Do you investigate every one? Unlikely an offence of wasting police time would carry. Another very very wealthy man ( a heir to one of the major potbanks) used to ring the Police ( weekly) to report that he had been robbed...he simply couldn't find something in the house( I went round once , to find his missing Lp ( vinyl ' musical recording!!) on the turntable.Even at the time we knew he had some sort of dementia, but he was also regarded as eccentric...he always came to the door in a dressing gown or full suit and tie, but always with a glass of Whisky in his hand. He blamed the thefts on a " Polish family " who lived down the road. Several times people would ring up to report a youngster missing at 6.00pm...." please get 20 officers ( who don't exist) out to look for her....9.00 pm..." she's turned up now, at a friend's we didn't know about".....if the Police did nothing , they would be criticised. Extea officers could be brought on on overtime, but the cost would be incredible, given the amount of people reported missing Controversially for some on here, a past friend in London, not the Met, had a reliable report of someone ( two actually) people carrying a weapon in a particular area. Do the Police stop and search everyone meeting the description in that area, do nothing or just increase the presence in the area? Whatever they do someone could argue thst something different should have been done. ( I would also add there have been untrue descriptios offfered so that some people would get stopped and searched....so that they could have some fun with the Police and claim they are being victimised when no weapons ate found. To watch every word that you say, when trying to do your best, must be difficult for today's officers. The question is, why would a Jewish man be at risk walking alongside this demonstration? Qell, IMO , there are two answers to this. 1 If course no one should be at risk walking the streets of the UK or any country or anywhere, particularly if they are minding their own business 2 In the real world, if you put yourself at risk by putting yourself in a situation that someone may take offence at your presence, for whatever reason, there is a liklihood that indeed you may be harmed....perhaps you should not be, but you may be. ( there's a major worldwide incident occuring in hthe MiddleEast in which thousands of innocent people are actually dying, so perhaps people are slightly incensed, not a good background to " mske a political point")) But thirdly and simply , the Policeman was trying to prevent the man from being harmed, irrespective of any wider political implications. Perhaps he should have done nothing. In my opinion
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Israel
Apr 21, 2024 21:00:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by mrnovember on Apr 21, 2024 21:00:04 GMT
The question is, why would a Jewish man be at risk walking alongside this demonstration? Qell, IMO , there are two answers to this. 1 If course no one should be at risk walking the streets of the UK or any country or anywhere, particularly if they are minding their own business 2 In the real world, if you put yourself at risk by putting yourself in a situation that someone may take offence at your presence, for whatever reason, there is a liklihood that indeed you may be harmed....perhaps you should not be, but you may be. ( there's a major worldwide incident occuring in hthe MiddleEast in which thousands of innocent people are actually dying, so perhaps people are slightly incensed, not a good background to " mske a political point")) But thirdly and simply , the Policeman was trying to prevent the man from being harmed, irrespective of any wider political implications. Perhaps he should have done nothing. In my opinion I wasn't questioning the motives of the officer.
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