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Post by clarkeda on Jul 10, 2023 8:18:12 GMT
He is one of those players, who looks too lightweight walking on to the pitch . Once the game starts the opposition, soon find, they can't get near him, they go to tackle him and he is gone . Perhaps not ready for 2 90 minutes a week in the championship, but on the pitch he would give us something we just don't have in the final third . A player who sees challenges coming and just goes round them . He is going to make an impact somewhere and some point 23 -24 ? 24 -25 ? Hope he comes! Got a touch of the Phil Foden's about him. Haven’t watched it all but the thing that stood out straight away is he looks like a ball carrier. We’ve missed those for SOOOO long all over the pitch. Laurent and Campbell probably do it best in the squad, but there’s no one else. |
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Post by Fred Merger on Jul 10, 2023 8:20:09 GMT
He is one of those players, who looks too lightweight walking on to the pitch . Once the game starts the opposition, soon find, they can't get near him, they go to tackle him and he is gone . Perhaps not ready for 2 90 minutes a week in the championship, but on the pitch he would give us something we just don't have in the final third . A player who sees challenges coming and just goes round them . He is going to make an impact somewhere and some point 23 -24 ? 24 -25 ? Hope he comes! looks a talent, quick feet! |
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Post by shrewspotter on Jul 10, 2023 8:25:56 GMT
I know its me getting older, but this lad literally looks about 13 years old
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Post by banksisgod on Jul 10, 2023 8:38:41 GMT
Both Brighton and the Irish Manager, Stephen Kenny, have very high expectation for this boy.
He'd be a great addition for twelve months, and would provide us with something that we have been missing for years; someone who can drive at the opposition at speed. He is very young and slight, and might need a bit of protection.
Oh, and by the way, if we get him, his name is pronounced MORE-an, and not more-ANNE. Hearing Kevin Moran's name being mis-pronounced drove me (and most other Irish people) bananas for years!!
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jul 10, 2023 9:11:41 GMT
Perhaps Moran and Daniel Johnson can share the gametime. Both at opposite ends of the experience scale but might be an option.
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Post by silverdollar on Jul 10, 2023 9:25:03 GMT
Who is the better this lad or the Derby player? That question is the equivalent of asking the Bakewell Knitting Circle for their opinions of Quantum Physics. Seventy five percent of "Stoke Fans" on this site believed Stoke had no chance against Notts County on Saturday. I don't see many of them after the weekend coming on and apologising for their crass stupidity! |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 10, 2023 9:35:59 GMT
Delap had a very good reputation too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 9:42:58 GMT
Delap had a very good reputation too. Do we never take a risk on a young player again then because we had a bad experience with Delap? |
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 10, 2023 10:06:22 GMT
Delap had a very good reputation too. Do we never take a risk on a young player again then because we had a bad experience with Delap? Correct - same with Scottish players,anyone from Guinea, anyone who played for Juventus and any foreign manager. |
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jul 10, 2023 10:21:47 GMT
Delap had a very good reputation too. Do we never take a risk on a young player again then because we had a bad experience with Delap? Yes never take risks. We’ll find all our players in Hanley |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 10:28:54 GMT
Delap had a very good reputation too. Do we never take a risk on a young player again then because we had a bad experience with Delap? I’d rather we do it after their first loan to be honest. We seem to try to get them first and then get stuck with teaching them a lot more senior football than we should need to. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 10:36:09 GMT
Do we never take a risk on a young player again then because we had a bad experience with Delap? I’d rather we do it after their first loan to be honest. We seem to try to get them first and then get stuck with teaching them a lot more senior football than we should need to. They are not easy to get if their first loan has been successful though. Is this not why we employ an army of analysts and a head of recruitment to drill down into the stats and find the next big thing before they become a big thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 10:41:50 GMT
I’d rather we do it after their first loan to be honest. We seem to try to get them first and then get stuck with teaching them a lot more senior football than we should need to. They are not easy to get if their first loan has been successful though. Is this not why we employ an army of analysts and a head of recruitment to drill down into the stats and find the next big thing before they become a big thing. We’ve had analysts and scouts before this window. It’s often clear to see that someone’s first loan is rarely an amazing one. How many of those “next big things” hit the ground running? Probably very, very few. Most will likely get hot towards the end of the season. I don’t particularly care if they are going to be amazing one day, I’d rather just see someone who can meaningfully contribute across the course of the season. Smallbone (who I don’t like) will start the season at around the level that he ended last year, ie an effective (if not exciting) Championship player. That’s after a loan that wasn’t particularly successful. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 10, 2023 10:49:47 GMT
They are not easy to get if their first loan has been successful though. Is this not why we employ an army of analysts and a head of recruitment to drill down into the stats and find the next big thing before they become a big thing. We’ve had analysts and scouts before this window. It’s often clear to see that someone’s first loan is rarely an amazing one. How many of those “next big things” hit the ground running? Probably very, very few. Most will likely get hot towards the end of the season. I don’t particularly care if they are going to be amazing one day, I’d rather just see someone who can meaningfully contribute across the course of the season. Smallbone (who I don’t like) will start the season at around the level that he ended last year, ie an effective (if not exciting) Championship player. That’s after a loan that wasn’t particularly successful. It was a very successful loan - he got better as the season went on and was very much part of our purple patch towards the end of the season. By the end he looked like a decent player at this level. |
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Post by somersetstokie on Jul 10, 2023 10:50:32 GMT
Do we never take a risk on a young player again then because we had a bad experience with Delap? Correct - same with Scottish players,anyone from Guinea, anyone who played for Juventus and any foreign manager.[/b] Yes I know, but it was Juventus! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 10:54:08 GMT
We’ve had analysts and scouts before this window. It’s often clear to see that someone’s first loan is rarely an amazing one. How many of those “next big things” hit the ground running? Probably very, very few. Most will likely get hot towards the end of the season. I don’t particularly care if they are going to be amazing one day, I’d rather just see someone who can meaningfully contribute across the course of the season. Smallbone (who I don’t like) will start the season at around the level that he ended last year, ie an effective (if not exciting) Championship player. That’s after a loan that wasn’t particularly successful. It was a very successful loan - he got better as the season went on and was very much part of our purple patch towards the end of the season. By the end he looked like a decent player at this level. The “by the end” is the issue I have. It was successful for Smallbone and less so for Stoke. I want to bring players in on loan who are successful for Stoke as well. Moran might be but it’s my opinion that a first time loanee will be. |
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Post by walrus on Jul 10, 2023 11:35:09 GMT
It was a very successful loan - he got better as the season went on and was very much part of our purple patch towards the end of the season. By the end he looked like a decent player at this level. The “by the end” is the issue I have. It was successful for Smallbone and less so for Stoke. I want to bring players in on loan who are successful for Stoke as well. Moran might be but it’s my opinion that a first time loanee will be. The issue is that players who are already ready to hit the ground running at Championship level are rarely available on loan. The way that football finances work these days has unfortunately created a situation where almost all clubs in the Championship have to go cap in hand to Prem clubs looking for loanees to bolster their squads. There has to be an element of risk-taking involved. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 11:45:33 GMT
They are not easy to get if their first loan has been successful though. Is this not why we employ an army of analysts and a head of recruitment to drill down into the stats and find the next big thing before they become a big thing. We’ve had analysts and scouts before this window. It’s often clear to see that someone’s first loan is rarely an amazing one. How many of those “next big things” hit the ground running? Probably very, very few. Most will likely get hot towards the end of the season. I don’t particularly care if they are going to be amazing one day, I’d rather just see someone who can meaningfully contribute across the course of the season. Smallbone (who I don’t like) will start the season at around the level that he ended last year, ie an effective (if not exciting) Championship player. That’s after a loan that wasn’t particularly successful. The trouble is I don't think we are high enough up the food chain to attract the second year 'hot property' loans. The only ones we've improved enough to make us attractive for those types are arguably THB, Smallbone and Hoever. I still think we need to take the odd development loan though. Surely law of averages says we'll drop on a really good one eventually. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 11:48:18 GMT
The “by the end” is the issue I have. It was successful for Smallbone and less so for Stoke. I want to bring players in on loan who are successful for Stoke as well. Moran might be but it’s my opinion that a first time loanee will be. The issue is that players who are already ready to hit the ground running at Championship level are rarely available on loan. The way that football finances work these days has unfortunately created a situation where almost all clubs in the Championship have to go cap in hand to Prem clubs looking for loanees to bolster their squads. There has to be an element of risk-taking involved. There are plenty of players on second and third loans in the Championship, eg Sarkic and Keinan Davis. I agree that Premier league teams hover up the better youngsters though. I’ve said it before but I believe that the EFL should just boycott PL loans. Nothing will change until more aggressive action is taken and we are just stuck watching league 2/1 standard loanees graduate to a standard needed to be useful in this league. I’m sure that the same is true for the leagues below as well. |
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Post by stokiejoe on Jul 10, 2023 11:56:50 GMT
Who is the better this lad or the Derby player? That question is the equivalent of asking the Bakewell Knitting Circle for their opinions of Quantum Physics. Seventy five percent of "Stoke Fans" on this site believed Stoke had no chance against Notts County on Saturday. I don't see many of them after the weekend coming on and apologising for their crass stupidity! You mean knit one, pearl one isn't a nuclear term? Staggered! I would give my left proton for the right quark up front |
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Post by iamstokie on Jul 10, 2023 11:59:15 GMT
I know its me getting older, but this lad literally looks about 13 years old sounds like ur used to looking at 13 yrs old , you work for the BBC 😉😁😂😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 12:00:21 GMT
He is a talented player, who is going to come good at some point ...23 -24 ? 24 -25 ?
I like him and I hope he comes.
But at the same time I take the argument, that if you take the example of say jack Clarke, we took him first and put a lot of effort in to improving his game ... which did Sunderland a right favour ! Because they went second and had a much more effective jack Clarke in their team than we did!
So I totally get the argument that the smart thing to do, would be to go second, and let somebody else loan him first.
That said I would take him, we are allowed 9 subs and he could come on and change a game for us by being able to run with the ball ( and when the challenges come in just go round them) . He's like the anti Jacob brown, who when the challenges come in , has a knack of winning a free kick for the opposition!
Its a gamble though .
He may well do a jack Clarke and shine more brightly second time around.
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Post by shrewspotter on Jul 10, 2023 12:12:01 GMT
I know its me getting older, but this lad literally looks about 13 years old sounds like ur used to looking at 13 yrs old , you work for the BBC 😉😁😂😂 never crossed my mind, how come it did yours 😆 Be interesting to see whose not reading the news later |
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 10, 2023 12:17:52 GMT
He is a talented player, who is going to come good at some point ...23 -24 ? 24 -25 ? I like him and I hope he comes. But at the same time I take the argument, that if you take the example of say jack Clarke, we took him first and put a lot of effort in to improving his game ... which did Sunderland a right favour ! Because they went second and had a much more effective jack Clarke in their team than we did! So I totally get the argument that the smart thing to do, would be to go second, and let somebody else loan him first. That said I would take him, we are allowed 9 subs and he could come on and change a game for us by being able to run with the ball ( and when the challenges come in just go round them) . He's like the anti Jacob brown, who when the challenges come in , has a knack of winning a free kick for the opposition! Its a gamble though . He may well do a jack Clarke and shine more brightly second time around. Its pretty much all a gamble, especially with loans |
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Post by andystokey on Jul 10, 2023 12:29:13 GMT
We’ve had analysts and scouts before this window. It’s often clear to see that someone’s first loan is rarely an amazing one. How many of those “next big things” hit the ground running? Probably very, very few. Most will likely get hot towards the end of the season. I don’t particularly care if they are going to be amazing one day, I’d rather just see someone who can meaningfully contribute across the course of the season. Smallbone (who I don’t like) will start the season at around the level that he ended last year, ie an effective (if not exciting) Championship player. That’s after a loan that wasn’t particularly successful. It was a very successful loan - he got better as the season went on and was very much part of our purple patch towards the end of the season. By the end he looked like a decent player at this level. What some don't get is that is exactly what a successful development loan looks like. We'd be happy with that if it was DWP as it was with Souttar. Perhaps some don't see the difference between development and a loan of a player later in life not wanted by their current club. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 12:47:13 GMT
It was a very successful loan - he got better as the season went on and was very much part of our purple patch towards the end of the season. By the end he looked like a decent player at this level. What some don't get is that is exactly what a successful development loan looks like. We'd be happy with that if it was DWP as it was with Souttar. Perhaps some don't see the difference between development and a loan of a player later in life not wanted by their current club. It is successful for the player. I don’t care about the player. It wasn’t that successful for Stoke. I care about Stoke. Who cares if Smallbone goes on to do well if it isn’t for Stoke? I doubt Stoke are loaning youngsters for the betterment of the youngster. They are doing it to try and help themselves. Largely, it’s been a failure. |
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Jul 10, 2023 14:29:13 GMT
Sheffield United fans were about as happy with their Man City loan player as we were, but by the end of the season his name was always popping up with goals and assists. It can work!
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Post by andystokey on Jul 10, 2023 15:02:12 GMT
What some don't get is that is exactly what a successful development loan looks like. We'd be happy with that if it was DWP as it was with Souttar. Perhaps some don't see the difference between development and a loan of a player later in life not wanted by their current club. It is successful for the player. I don’t care about the player. It wasn’t that successful for Stoke. I care about Stoke. Who cares if Smallbone goes on to do well if it isn’t for Stoke? I doubt Stoke are loaning youngsters for the betterment of the youngster. They are doing it to try and help themselves. Largely, it’s been a failure. Why else do you think we get a loan like Smallbone? So Soton can help us out? Development loans are just that. If you don't like taking "development" loans that's fine, plenty of folk don't, including many managers. Just separate out the expectations from the other type. Sterling, Pearson etc. Even so I disagree it wasn't good for Stoke. After Powells injury we had no one but Smallbone to play AM and he undoubtedly added to our points tally compared to having no one. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 15:11:35 GMT
It is successful for the player. I don’t care about the player. It wasn’t that successful for Stoke. I care about Stoke. Who cares if Smallbone goes on to do well if it isn’t for Stoke? I doubt Stoke are loaning youngsters for the betterment of the youngster. They are doing it to try and help themselves. Largely, it’s been a failure. Why else do you think we get a loan like Smallbone? So Soton can help us out? Development loans are just that. If you don't like taking "development" loans that's fine, plenty of folk don't, including many managers. Just separate out the expectations from the other type. Sterling, Pearson etc. Even so I disagree it wasn't good for Stoke. After Powells injury we had no one but Smallbone to play AM and he undoubtedly added to our points tally compared to having no one. “Why else do you think we get a loan like Smallbone? So Soton can help us out? Development loans are just that.” Development loans, in my opinion, should be at an appropriate level for the player and club. That is, they should start at the level you are at and surpass you by the time it’s over. Souttar and Taylor were good examples of loans that were successful for us, them and the loaning club. Smallbone wasn’t at Championship standard for much of the season. He got better as the season progressed and then ultimately fell off in the last 7-8 games as well. Realistically, he should have been on loan to a league one team last season and to someone like Stoke this year. The systematic pooling of talent by the big clubs have led us to feed off poor quality scraps and be grateful for it. There’s no way of knowing what would have happened if we didn’t have Smallbone. We may have played a completely different style that would have suited what we did have rather than playing an AM with limited AM ability. We will never know. |
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Post by shakermaker on Jul 10, 2023 15:20:05 GMT
He is a talented player, who is going to come good at some point ...23 -24 ? 24 -25 ? I like him and I hope he comes. But at the same time I take the argument, that if you take the example of say jack Clarke, we took him first and put a lot of effort in to improving his game ... which did Sunderland a right favour ! Because they went second and had a much more effective jack Clarke in their team than we did! So I totally get the argument that the smart thing to do, would be to go second, and let somebody else loan him first. That said I would take him, we are allowed 9 subs and he could come on and change a game for us by being able to run with the ball ( and when the challenges come in just go round them) . He's like the anti Jacob brown, who when the challenges come in , has a knack of winning a free kick for the opposition! Its a gamble though . He may well do a jack Clarke and shine more brightly second time around. Its pretty much all a gamble, especially with loans You don’t think Delap’s failure could have been predicted then? Looking in retrospect, Delap’s success for City’s reserves was because he was able to bully weaker defenders with his strength, but was found out at Championship level. Shouldn’t our more knowledgeable scouts have been able to suss that themselves? |
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