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Post by Gods on Apr 27, 2023 20:05:27 GMT
I guess with Newcastle taking one of the Champions league places they are now officially 'super-sized'
I'm old enough to remember a 'Big 4' and then along came Chelsea and Man City.
Next off the rank Villa, West Ham...? Room for a big city Yorkshire club, Leeds or one of the Sheffield's?
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Apr 27, 2023 20:08:54 GMT
I guess with Newcastle taking one of the Champions league places they are now officially 'super-sized' I'm old enough to remember a 'Big 4' and then along came Chelsea and Man City. Next off the rank Villa, West Ham...? Room for a big city Yorkshire club, Leeds or one of the Sheffield's? Not sure it will happen but be nice to see more competition in the Premier League. I can't see past Man City being the top team. You would think Chelsea and Man United have to improve too
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Apr 27, 2023 20:10:38 GMT
I think there's a new subcategory, 'The Big One' which contains Man City on their own. With the other side teams in the next tier down.
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Post by march4 on Apr 27, 2023 20:19:10 GMT
Spurs were never one of the big anything.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 27, 2023 20:21:35 GMT
It’s just a Big 4 based on the previous season isn’t it? As it stands Liverpool, Chelski and Spuds are no longer champions league teams.
Great goal Wilson a belter!
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Post by lordb on Apr 27, 2023 20:31:50 GMT
Big 1 The rest are behind
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Post by Gods on Apr 27, 2023 20:34:12 GMT
By 'Big 7' I didn't mean there is no pecking order within at any given time.
More that everyone else is playing for 8th.
Of course they won't always finish 1-7, there will always be 1 or 2 teams that may oust 1 or 2 of them in any given season but that's the exception and not the rule.
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 27, 2023 20:35:58 GMT
I guess with Newcastle taking one of the Champions league places they are now officially 'super-sized' I'm old enough to remember a 'Big 4' and then along came Chelsea and Man City. Next off the rank Villa, West Ham...? Room for a big city Yorkshire club, Leeds or one of the Sheffield's? The Big 4 was Chelsea Pool ManU and Arse. Certainly not Spuds
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Post by Gods on Apr 27, 2023 20:36:37 GMT
Spurs were never one of the big anything. Spurs have finished between 2nd and 7th for 14 consecutive seasons. May not win much but they are bona fide 'Big 7', no doubt about that.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Apr 27, 2023 20:47:19 GMT
Growing up in the 80s the big 5 were always Liverpool, Man Utd, Everton, Arsenal and Spurs
Everton long since left the party
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Post by march4 on Apr 27, 2023 20:54:58 GMT
Spurs were never one of the big anything. Spurs have finished between 2nd and 7th for 14 consecutive seasons. May not win much but they are bona fide 'Big 7', no doubt about that. And how much have they won? They are also rans.
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 27, 2023 20:55:27 GMT
A top 7 means it's getting more competitive.
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Post by lordb on Apr 27, 2023 20:55:31 GMT
Spurs were never one of the big anything. Spurs have finished between 2nd and 7th for 14 consecutive seasons. May not win much but they are bona fide 'Big 7', no doubt about that. They won't this year
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 27, 2023 21:13:36 GMT
Growing up in the 80s the big 5 were always Liverpool, Man Utd, Everton, Arsenal and Spurs Everton long since left the party Was basically Liverpool or Everton at my school. One or two ManU kids but they were losers ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) Don't really remember Arsenal or Spurs featuring at all.
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Post by Gods on Apr 27, 2023 21:37:04 GMT
Spurs have finished between 2nd and 7th for 14 consecutive seasons. May not win much but they are bona fide 'Big 7', no doubt about that. They won't this year Of course they will, they are 5th.
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Post by lordb on Apr 27, 2023 21:39:22 GMT
Of course they will, they are 5th. Villa and Liverpool will finish above them Brighton should too Won't be shocked if Brentford catch them either
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Post by Gods on Apr 27, 2023 21:40:18 GMT
A top 7 means it's getting more competitive. Well, potentially competitive among the Big 7 perhaps, but the 'best of the rest' contest becomes for 8th position. We finished 5th in 74/75 and were still below Ipswich and Derby. It's become a league of super-sized clubs and 'oil' has a long term lease on the title.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 27, 2023 21:48:30 GMT
Yes - but not for long. The top teams have to have regular European football to attract the best players and the extra income to afford those players. If one or two of the Big 7 miss out on European football for a few seasons they will either join the also rans or overspend in an ever more desperate attempt to pretend they are still one of the big boys. One or two of the Big 7 are going to blow up because there aren't enough European places. My money is on Chelsea.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Apr 27, 2023 22:22:07 GMT
I reckon we can confidently say we're part of the Moderately/Disappointingly Sized 42 or 43.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2023 22:42:00 GMT
I think there's a new subcategory, 'The Big One' which contains Man City on their own. With the other side teams in the next tier down. I was just about to write this. Next year (or the year after) it may become a regular Big Two with Newcastle coming through. It seems like Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool etc are destined to have a shot at 2nd or maybe even the occasional win but are not capable of long term challenges.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 27, 2023 22:54:45 GMT
I guess with Newcastle taking one of the Champions league places they are now officially 'super-sized' I'm old enough to remember a 'Big 4' and then along came Chelsea and Man City. Next off the rank Villa, West Ham...? Room for a big city Yorkshire club, Leeds or one of the Sheffield's? The Big 4 was Chelsea Pool ManU and Arse. Certainly not Spuds
Not when the Prem was formed it wasn't.
Gods is right, the original big 4 was indeed Liverpool, ManU, Arsenal and Spurs and then the arrival of big money at Chelsea and then subsequently Citeh, gradually turned it into the big 6.
As has been said further up the thread, currently, it really is a case of the biggest 1 and then the bigger 6 and then the rest. Of course Newcastle however, have the potential to blow everybody out of the water over the next few years.
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 27, 2023 23:35:45 GMT
The Big 4 was Chelsea Pool ManU and Arse. Certainly not Spuds Not when the Prem was formed it wasn't. Gods is right, the original big 4 was indeed Liverpool, ManU, Arsenal and Spurs and then the arrival of big money at Chelsea and then subsequently Citeh, gradually turned it into the big 6. As has been said further up the thread, currently, it really is a case of the biggest 1 and then the bigger 6 and then the rest. Of course Newcastle however, have the potential to blow everybody out of the water over the next few years. Did they refer to them as the (capitalised) Big Four in that time though? I feel like that concept is much more related to the era of four teams going into the Champions League, and for years it was almost exclusively the four I mentioned.. Spurs were nowhere to be seen then, so I don’t think it’s right that Chelsea and ManC were “added on” to make six. Spurs and ManC are definitely the most recent additions to the “big” group.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 28, 2023 0:09:49 GMT
Not when the Prem was formed it wasn't. Gods is right, the original big 4 was indeed Liverpool, ManU, Arsenal and Spurs and then the arrival of big money at Chelsea and then subsequently Citeh, gradually turned it into the big 6. As has been said further up the thread, currently, it really is a case of the biggest 1 and then the bigger 6 and then the rest. Of course Newcastle however, have the potential to blow everybody out of the water over the next few years. Did they refer to them as the (capitalised) Big Four in that time though? I feel like that concept is much more related to the era of four teams going into the Champions League, and for years it was almost exclusively the four I mentioned.. Spurs were nowhere to be seen then, so I don’t think it’s right that Chelsea and ManC were “added on” to make six. Spurs and ManC are definitely the most recent additions to the “big” group.
100% as I described it PL ... Gods and I are old farts but we're still not yet senile! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
Chelsea were absolute nobodies until the mid 90's, prior to that, Liverpool, ManU, Arsenal and Spurs were the four biggest clubs in the country, no question and were (when the Prem was formed) recognised as so, as the 'big four'.
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 28, 2023 1:45:34 GMT
Did they refer to them as the (capitalised) Big Four in that time though? I feel like that concept is much more related to the era of four teams going into the Champions League, and for years it was almost exclusively the four I mentioned.. Spurs were nowhere to be seen then, so I don’t think it’s right that Chelsea and ManC were “added on” to make six. Spurs and ManC are definitely the most recent additions to the “big” group. 100% as I described it PL ... Gods and I are old farts but we're still not yet senile! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) Chelsea were absolute nobodies until the mid 90's, prior to that, Liverpool, ManU, Arsenal and Spurs were the four biggest clubs in the country, no question and were (when the Prem was formed) recognised as so, as the 'big four'.
I was around at the time myself 😄 although I concede a little younger than the real old farts… I think there are two different concepts at play here.. the one of “bigness” of a club as defined by historical success, players, attendances, stadium etc, and the narrower definition of dominance over a certain period.. so Spurs would fit in the former definition but not the latter, at least in the last 40 years or so. Same with Man U in the 70s-80s. Chelsea the other way round. And your current “Big 1” definitely only fits in the second category. For me the “Big Four” concept (as it relates to this thread) came about to describe that period of moneyed “superclub” dominance in the late 90s-00s. Before that teams like Villa, Everton, Newcastle, Norwich, Leeds etc were quite regularly finishing in the top three or four (not really Spurs though, haha).
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Post by femark on Apr 28, 2023 5:26:56 GMT
It’s a bit early to include Newcastle with the likes of the old top 4. It’ll be interesting to see how they do next season juggling European football as well.
They need at least 3 or 4 seasons up there to even be considered.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Apr 28, 2023 6:25:06 GMT
How do you define a top 6 or top 7 club. It can’t be only based on trophies won can it? Spurs last champions title was over 60 years ago, "newcomers" Newcastle was nearly 100 yrs ago, the arse have not won the PL for 19 years and Liverpool have won it once in 33 years. In the FA cup Spurs last won it 32 years ago and Newcastle 68 years ago. The arse have a claim having won FA cup 9 times since PL was formed. If there is to be a top 7 no idea how it will be defined outside of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and the arse. Don’t forget we were 9th in the top 7 for 3 consecutive seasons ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by J-Roar on Apr 28, 2023 7:38:49 GMT
How do you define a top 6 or top 7 club. It can’t be only based on trophies won can it? Spurs last champions title was over 60 years ago, "newcomers" Newcastle was nearly 100 yrs ago, the arse have not won the PL for 19 years and Liverpool have won it once in 33 years. In the FA cup Spurs last won it 32 years ago and Newcastle 68 years ago. The arse have a claim having won FA cup 9 times since PL was formed. If there is to be a top 7 no idea how it will be defined outside of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and the arse. Don’t forget we were 9th in the top 7 for 3 consecutive seasons ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) Money and fanbase.
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Post by wagsastokie on Apr 28, 2023 7:55:20 GMT
It’s not going to be to many more seasons before The shit fans Liverpool and Arsenal fans start whinging like stuck pigs
That the top two teams have a unfair advantage and the rules need changing I can’t await the irony of the complete shit show
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Post by Veritas on Apr 28, 2023 7:56:38 GMT
I guess with Newcastle taking one of the Champions league places they are now officially 'super-sized' I'm old enough to remember a 'Big 4' and then along came Chelsea and Man City. Next off the rank Villa, West Ham...? Room for a big city Yorkshire club, Leeds or one of the Sheffield's? I am old enough to remember when the big 2, 3 or 4 in terms of likely success was a transient thing as clubs fortunes rose and fall. The days of Man U, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool etc going through a lengthy spell in the doldrums and even being relegated are gone for ever, more is the pity.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Apr 28, 2023 9:41:04 GMT
How do you define a top 6 or top 7 club. It can’t be only based on trophies won can it? Spurs last champions title was over 60 years ago, "newcomers" Newcastle was nearly 100 yrs ago, the arse have not won the PL for 19 years and Liverpool have won it once in 33 years. In the FA cup Spurs last won it 32 years ago and Newcastle 68 years ago. The arse have a claim having won FA cup 9 times since PL was formed. If there is to be a top 7 no idea how it will be defined outside of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and the arse. Don’t forget we were 9th in the top 7 for 3 consecutive seasons ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) Money and fanbase. It's a very sophisticated, nuanced and scientifically accurate set of metrics. Absolutely agree that money and fanbase are key, but the industry standard also includes: - Trophies - Extra weighting for European trophies - Triple weighting for being the holder in perpetuity of The Watney Cup- Celebrity fans - Extra weighting for celebrity fans who mix with the hoi-polloi at games and/or in the pub - Negative weighting for celebrity fans who are Government Ministers or members of the royal family - "Passion" of fans - Triple weighting for size (and "passion") of away followings - (Historical) notoriety of "Firm" - Being a "proper" club - Number of sightings of flag of St George at England away games, with club name, post-code and " X/Y/Z on tour" - Quintuple weighting for size of penis. As I suggest above, that puts us comfortably in the Top 42/43.
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