|
|
Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 28, 2023 22:06:03 GMT
For a while we were one of the big 9.🤔
|
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Apr 28, 2023 22:15:05 GMT
At the time the Premier League was formed, there was occasional use of the term "Big 5', Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton and Spurs. Spurs very much the outsider having spent 9 years in a row in the 70s/early 80s failing to make the top 6 while Everton won the League twice in the decade leading to the launch of the PL. Once the PL started, Spurs quickly faded from view as first Blackburn Rovers and then Arsenal fought it out with Manchester United, with occasional interventions by Liverpool, before Chelsea broke through and the Big 4 term became common around 2005. Newcastle United and Leeds United were more prominent than Spurs who didn't achieve a top 6 finish until 2004/5. Their first fourth place in the Premier League was in 2009/10 as part of a change that saw them become part of the Big 6. At no point since the 1970s have Spurs been part of a Big 4.Absolute rubbish.
The above is just facts of what happened. If it’s wrong, provide some evidence to prove Spurs were ever part of a big 4. In both the season before and the second after the PL started they were 15th. Find some historic press quotes with a Big 4 referred to that included Spurs. You won’t, there are none. It would be bizarre if they were, Spurs were making up the numbers in the PL until 2010 and by the time they started featuring in the top 6. At best for a short time they were part of a 5 but they were never in a 4 |
|
|
|
Post by onionman on Apr 28, 2023 22:31:24 GMT
For a while we were one of the big 9.🤔 We were the worst-performing members of the Big 9 for the entire three years we were in it. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 29, 2023 1:49:16 GMT
The above is just facts of what happened. If it’s wrong, provide some evidence to prove Spurs were ever part of a big 4. In both the season before and the second after the PL started they were 15th. Find some historic press quotes with a Big 4 referred to that included Spurs. You won’t, there are none. It would be bizarre if they were, Spurs were making up the numbers in the PL until 2010 and by the time they started featuring in the top 6. At best for a short time they were part of a 5 but they were never in a 4
As has already been established several times in this thread, it doesn't matter where a team finished during that period, in order to determine the size of the club. Your 'facts' (with regard to where a club finished in the table) are completely irrelevant to the actual discussion. For 30 years, Liverpool hadn't got anywhere near a title either but it's not even in question, that for the whole of those 30 years they were a top four club.
When the Prem was formed, the four biggest clubs in the country were, without question, Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs and they were regularly referred to (quite legitimately) as the 'big four'. Prior to the mid nineties (and that's the period we are talking about) Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs had all won more trophies in their history than either Chelsea or Man City.
It's all very well basing a (distorted) view on immediacy bias but at the time (and that is the period that Gods and myself are referring to), it wasn't even up for discussion who the actual 'big four' were.
|
|
|
|
Post by PotterLog on Apr 29, 2023 2:39:41 GMT
The above is just facts of what happened. If it’s wrong, provide some evidence to prove Spurs were ever part of a big 4. In both the season before and the second after the PL started they were 15th. Find some historic press quotes with a Big 4 referred to that included Spurs. You won’t, there are none. It would be bizarre if they were, Spurs were making up the numbers in the PL until 2010 and by the time they started featuring in the top 6. At best for a short time they were part of a 5 but they were never in a 4 As has already been established several times in this thread, it doesn't matter where a team finished during that period, in order to determine the size of the club. Your 'facts' (with regard to where a club finished in the table) are completely irrelevant to the actual discussion. For 30 years, Liverpool hadn't got anywhere near a title either but it's not even in question, that for the whole of those 30 years they were a top four club. When the Prem was formed, the four biggest clubs in the country were, without question, Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs and they were regularly referred to (quite legitimately) as the 'big four'. Prior to the mid nineties (and that's the period we are talking about) Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs had all won more trophies in their history than either Chelsea or Man City.
It's all very well basing a (distorted) view on immediacy bias but at the time (and that is the period that Gods and myself are referring to), it wasn't even up for discussion who the actual 'big four' were. If where a club finishes in the table during a given period is completely irrelevant why are you referring to Man City as a “Big 1” now? |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 29, 2023 3:01:10 GMT
As has already been established several times in this thread, it doesn't matter where a team finished during that period, in order to determine the size of the club. Your 'facts' (with regard to where a club finished in the table) are completely irrelevant to the actual discussion. For 30 years, Liverpool hadn't got anywhere near a title either but it's not even in question, that for the whole of those 30 years they were a top four club. When the Prem was formed, the four biggest clubs in the country were, without question, Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs and they were regularly referred to (quite legitimately) as the 'big four'. Prior to the mid nineties (and that's the period we are talking about) Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs had all won more trophies in their history than either Chelsea or Man City.
It's all very well basing a (distorted) view on immediacy bias but at the time (and that is the period that Gods and myself are referring to), it wasn't even up for discussion who the actual 'big four' were. If where a club finishes in the table during a given period is completely irrelevant why are you referring to Man City as a “Big 1” now?
Normally I have a lot of time for your posts PL but I really do think that now, you're just looking for an argument for the sake of having an argument and I can't really be bothered with that.
But in answer to your question ... because the criteria is completely different now, to the the criteria used in the period that Gods and I were referring to.
All we had to go on at that point was history, now a club's wealth has never been more relevant.
|
|
|
|
Post by PotterLog on Apr 29, 2023 4:24:50 GMT
If where a club finishes in the table during a given period is completely irrelevant why are you referring to Man City as a “Big 1” now? Normally I have a lot of time for your posts PL but I really do think that now, you're just looking for an argument for the sake of having an argument and I can't really be bothered with that. But in answer to your question ... because the criteria is completely different now, to the the criteria used in the period that Gods and I were referring to. All we had to go on at that point was history, now a club's wealth has never been more relevant.
Just responding to posts you’ve made in entirely good faith mate. I think there’s a bit of definitional dissonance going unacknowledged, but no sweat if you conner be bothered with it. 👍🏼 it’s all just “for the sake of argument” to an extent innit |
|
|
|
Post by lawrieleslie on Apr 29, 2023 6:49:39 GMT
If where a club finishes in the table during a given period is completely irrelevant why are you referring to Man City as a “Big 1” now? Normally I have a lot of time for your posts PL but I really do think that now, you're just looking for an argument for the sake of having an argument and I can't really be bothered with that. But in answer to your question ... because the criteria is completely different now, to the the criteria used in the period that Gods and I were referring to. All we had to go on at that point was history, now a club's wealth has never been more relevant.
Based on that QPR should be up there then, but they aren’t even though they are allegedly wealthier than Arsenal and Liverpool combined. So , imo, it’s success that defines a clubs status with fan base and wealth backing that up. |
|
|
|
Post by banksy1art on Apr 29, 2023 7:14:44 GMT
We have the potential to be a top half prem side with the money we have
|
|
|
|
Post by str8outtahampton on Apr 29, 2023 9:04:46 GMT
Normally I have a lot of time for your posts PL but I really do think that now, you're just looking for an argument for the sake of having an argument and I can't really be bothered with that. But in answer to your question ... because the criteria is completely different now, to the the criteria used in the period that Gods and I were referring to. All we had to go on at that point was history, now a club's wealth has never been more relevant.
Just responding to posts you’ve made in entirely good faith mate. I think there’s a bit of definitional dissonance going unacknowledged, but no sweat if you conner be bothered with it. 👍🏼 it’s all just “for the sake of argument” to an extent innit - what a band they were. Sadly, very difficult and ultimately disappointing second album. If I remember correctly, the reason given for their break-up was musical differences - definitional dissonances in fact. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 29, 2023 9:37:26 GMT
Normally I have a lot of time for your posts PL but I really do think that now, you're just looking for an argument for the sake of having an argument and I can't really be bothered with that. But in answer to your question ... because the criteria is completely different now, to the the criteria used in the period that Gods and I were referring to. All we had to go on at that point was history, now a club's wealth has never been more relevant.
Based on that QPR should be up there then, but they aren’t even though they are allegedly wealthier than Arsenal and Liverpool combined. So , imo, it’s success that defines a clubs status with fan base and wealth backing that up. Exactly and wealth has never been more relevant to that. I didn't say JUST wealth did I? It's the reason you've had Liverpool fans in recent years complaining it's not a level playing field because of all the money that's been poured into Citeh. The reason that there is a big "one" currently, is entirely down to wealth being the differential but wealth alone doesn't guarantee anything, as Chelsea are currently proving, although it worked for them in the past. |
|
|
|
Post by somersetstokie on Apr 29, 2023 10:07:14 GMT
For a while we were one of the big 9.🤔 And nowadays we are not even a Big Fish in a small pond! |
|
|
|
Post by str8outtahampton on Apr 29, 2023 10:44:12 GMT
For a while we were one of the big 9.🤔 And nowadays we are not even a Big Fish in a small pond! There was an episode in an old series of The Apprentice - during the interview stage, one of the candidates * made an absurd claim saying exactly that. The response of the rather scary interviewer (possibly Claude, but not sure) could have been aimed at us. "You're not a big fish. You're not even a fish!" * That candidate was possibly the one who tragically died a few years back, poor fellow. |
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 29, 2023 11:55:28 GMT
We have the potential to be a top half prem side with the money we have Personally I don't know why we bother actually playing football anymore. Save a lot of hassle if clubs just submitted their accounts and leave the governing bodies make up the league positions accordingly. |
|
|
|
Post by silsdenstokie on Apr 29, 2023 12:11:01 GMT
Growing up in the 80s the big 5 were always Liverpool, Man Utd, Everton, Arsenal and Spurs Everton long since left the party Was basically Liverpool or Everton at my school. One or two ManU kids but they were losers  Don't really remember Arsenal or Spurs featuring at all. The majority supported Liverpool at my school, probably the reason I dislike them more than Man Utd. There were a few Everton and Man utd fans and even in yorkshire the odd spurs and arse fan. The scouse clubs were obviously the most successful back then, mancs still got 40k gates despite being poor, while Im fairly sure the 2 London clubs were getting late 20s, far more than anyone else. Chelsea, Man City, Newcastle, Sunderland, Leeds were no-where back then. There was probably a shoutfor Villa and Forest being the next biggest at that time. |
|
|
|
Post by Marc01 on Jun 30, 2024 11:38:43 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 30, 2024 11:56:15 GMT
We have the potential to be a top half prem side with the money we have We were until our owners decided they were smarter than everyone else. |
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 30, 2024 12:05:02 GMT
Was basically Liverpool or Everton at my school. One or two ManU kids but they were losers Don't really remember Arsenal or Spurs featuring at all. The majority supported Liverpool at my school, probably the reason I dislike them more than Man Utd. There were a few Everton and Man utd fans and even in yorkshire the odd spurs and arse fan. The scouse clubs were obviously the most successful back then, mancs still got 40k gates despite being poor, while Im fairly sure the 2 London clubs were getting late 20s, far more than anyone else. Chelsea, Man City, Newcastle, Sunderland, Leeds were no-where back then. There was probably a shoutfor Villa and Forest being the next biggest at that time. I couldn't stand Liverpool growing up, they seemed to win virtually everything and I found them proper boring. All changed for me after Klopp took over I've been rooting for them the past few years since our relegation. |
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jun 30, 2024 13:42:54 GMT
Sums up everything that is wrong with that vilest of institutions if they were erased from the earth by the vilest plague it would be a fate too good for them . |
|
|
|
Post by middleoftheboothen on Jun 30, 2024 14:32:50 GMT
Sums up everything that is wrong with that vilest of institutions if they were erased from the earth by the vilest plague it would be a fate too good for them . Well said Mr.Biscuit 👏 |
|
|
|
Post by bridgnorthstokie on Jun 30, 2024 15:10:16 GMT
Sums up everything that is wrong with that vilest of institutions if they were erased from the earth by the vilest plague it would be a fate too good for them . Self Interest and greed above the game as a whole... they won't stop till they have everything. |
|
|
|
Post by march4 on Jun 30, 2024 15:19:45 GMT
Spurs are not a member of the big anything.
|
|
|
|
Post by telfordstokie on Jun 30, 2024 15:35:12 GMT
Jim Ratcliffe’s point is bullshit - but his argument is made even shitter but the fact his new plaything didn’t even finish in the top six.
|
|
|
|
Post by dirtclod on Jun 30, 2024 18:17:20 GMT
Reason 7,456 to hate Man. Utd. Enter Sir Jim Ratface, a walking, talking penis.
The "Chemical Ali" of football.
|
|
|
|
Post by J-Roar on Jul 1, 2024 7:13:18 GMT
Jim Ratcliffe does come across as an absolute cunt.
|
|
|
|
Post by atillathehoneybee on Jul 1, 2024 7:35:57 GMT
The above is just facts of what happened. If it’s wrong, provide some evidence to prove Spurs were ever part of a big 4. In both the season before and the second after the PL started they were 15th. Find some historic press quotes with a Big 4 referred to that included Spurs. You won’t, there are none. It would be bizarre if they were, Spurs were making up the numbers in the PL until 2010 and by the time they started featuring in the top 6. At best for a short time they were part of a 5 but they were never in a 4 Totally agree. In fact Forest were also part of that elite "BIG 6" Way before Chelsea and Man City came along, they were very much also rans |
|
|
|
Post by dutchstokie on Jul 1, 2024 9:17:20 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Jul 1, 2024 9:27:15 GMT
The above is just facts of what happened. If it’s wrong, provide some evidence to prove Spurs were ever part of a big 4. In both the season before and the second after the PL started they were 15th. Find some historic press quotes with a Big 4 referred to that included Spurs. You won’t, there are none. It would be bizarre if they were, Spurs were making up the numbers in the PL until 2010 and by the time they started featuring in the top 6. At best for a short time they were part of a 5 but they were never in a 4 As has already been established several times in this thread, it doesn't matter where a team finished during that period, in order to determine the size of the club. Your 'facts' (with regard to where a club finished in the table) are completely irrelevant to the actual discussion. For 30 years, Liverpool hadn't got anywhere near a title either but it's not even in question, that for the whole of those 30 years they were a top four club. When the Prem was formed, the four biggest clubs in the country were, without question, Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs and they were regularly referred to (quite legitimately) as the 'big four'. Prior to the mid nineties (and that's the period we are talking about) Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs had all won more trophies in their history than either Chelsea or Man City.
It's all very well basing a (distorted) view on immediacy bias but at the time (and that is the period that Gods and myself are referring to), it wasn't even up for discussion who the actual 'big four' were. i think its based on size of club and supporters you have local supported clubs, some then become supported nationally, leeds, westham and newcastle good examples then internationally supported. and those 4 for a long time had a fair amount of international support befor being gatecrashed by citeh & chelsea due to ££ and the trophies/exposure its given them more foreign investment has allowed clubs to massive international following in the countries where the investment came from eg leicester and cardiff. |
|
|
|
Post by liathroid on Jul 3, 2024 17:04:57 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Veritas on Jul 3, 2024 17:07:19 GMT
Even more reason to despise them |
|
Don't really remember Arsenal or Spurs featuring at all.
