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Post by Veritas on Jun 12, 2023 19:12:24 GMT
It's hypothetical but in those circumstances it would also be interesting to see how much of a fight Westminster (ergo England) put up to keep them in comparison to Scotland 2014. I suspect very little resistance just some individual MPs from the Conservative & Unionist Party It is contained within the Good Friday Agreement that the NI Secretary is required "if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland". There is no specific trigger in GFA how NI Secretary determines that wish, but it is generally accepted that it would be Polling over a certain period of time To be fair if Polls in Scotland indicated similar it would be untenable Democratically to ignore. I think polls would need to be backed up with explicitly pro unification parties getting over 50% in elections
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Post by wannabee on Jun 12, 2023 19:18:13 GMT
I suspect very little resistance just some individual MPs from the Conservative & Unionist Party It is contained within the Good Friday Agreement that the NI Secretary is required "if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland". There is no specific trigger in GFA how NI Secretary determines that wish, but it is generally accepted that it would be Polling over a certain period of time To be fair if Polls in Scotland indicated similar it would be untenable Democratically to ignore. I think polls would need to be backed up with explicitly pro unification parties getting over 50% in elections I believe that is accepted in NI as another criteria but the difficulty is that the "neutral" Alliance Party (about 20% Vote Share) don't commit one way or another As far as I know in Scotland all Parties declare for or against If I'm wrong more knowledgeable posters can correct
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jun 18, 2023 19:19:56 GMT
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Post by iancransonsknees on Apr 18, 2024 18:47:23 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Apr 18, 2024 19:45:02 GMT
It’s not just a Tory thing
Power corrupts
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 18, 2024 21:03:43 GMT
If true, I hope he serves real time. She’ll probably just get a slap on the wrist though.
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Post by salopstick on Apr 26, 2024 9:27:16 GMT
nicola sturgeon involved in corruption, husband arrested and now snp in minority government
most telling unpopular laws
Humza seems finished
is scotland ready to move on from the SNP
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Post by gawa on Apr 26, 2024 9:32:40 GMT
nicola sturgeon involved in corruption, husband arrested and now snp in minority government most telling unpopular laws Humza seems finished is scotland ready to move on from the SNP Hopefully not. I'm a big supporter of Scottish independence and think they'd be better for it.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 26, 2024 9:39:11 GMT
nicola sturgeon involved in corruption, husband arrested and now snp in minority government most telling unpopular laws Humza seems finished is scotland ready to move on from the SNP Hopefully not. I'm a big supporter of Scottish independence and think they'd be better for it. It would be worse than brexit for Scotland surely. And the EU won't be taking them back. Spain would make sure of that. Scotland would become a total back water from what I can see. Then again I don't profess to be an expert...
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Post by noustie on Apr 26, 2024 9:50:49 GMT
Unfortunately it's cyclical by the look of it - Scottish Labour was corrupt as fuck as they felt a monkey in a rosette would be elected then the SNP came along and pissed all over them. Over at least the last 5-8 years the SNP look like they've been corrupt as fuck and felt like they could get a monkey in a rosette elected and will now go through a period of finding out otherwise.
The folk who support independence don't just disappear though and if Alba get their shit together will start to grow into the void. For me, the independence movement needs a couple of parties so as to avoid this cluster fuck happening again - having one party looking to appeal to 45%+ of the electorate was only ever going to end in disaster.
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Post by gawa on Apr 26, 2024 9:53:06 GMT
Hopefully not. I'm a big supporter of Scottish independence and think they'd be better for it. It would be worse than brexit for Scotland surely. And the EU won't be taking them back. Spain would make sure of that. Scotland would become a total back water from what I can see. Then again I don't profess to be an expert... I'm no expert either mate and I think it's a difficult one to truly analyse as I imagine alot of articles on it are bias one way or the other depending on the stance. But I don't trust Westminster and the countries outside of England have very little say or influence over Westminster in my opinion. So I think they'd be better outside of the UK. But it's just an opinion of mine.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 26, 2024 10:05:58 GMT
It would be worse than brexit for Scotland surely. And the EU won't be taking them back. Spain would make sure of that. Scotland would become a total back water from what I can see. Then again I don't profess to be an expert... I'm no expert either mate and I think it's a difficult one to truly analyse as I imagine alot of articles on it are bias one way or the other depending on the stance. But I don't trust Westminster and the countries outside of England have very little say or influence over Westminster in my opinion. So I think they'd be better outside of the UK. But it's just an opinion of mine. I'd tend to agree that if Scotland wants out of the union then they should be allowed. Up to them surely. I just always felt it'd be damaging for both Scotland and Britain (what would be left of it obviously) but as you say I'm basing that on whatever propaganda I've been brain washing me sen with 😃
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Post by gawa on Apr 26, 2024 10:29:10 GMT
I'm no expert either mate and I think it's a difficult one to truly analyse as I imagine alot of articles on it are bias one way or the other depending on the stance. But I don't trust Westminster and the countries outside of England have very little say or influence over Westminster in my opinion. So I think they'd be better outside of the UK. But it's just an opinion of mine. I'd tend to agree that if Scotland wants out of the union then they should be allowed. Up to them surely. I just always felt it'd be damaging for both Scotland and Britain (what would be left of it obviously) but as you say I'm basing that on whatever propaganda I've been brain washing me sen with 😃 And I guess I'm also basing my view on my propoganda too 🤣. There's no right or wrong answer but the SNP have been elected time and time again on a manifesto which includes another referendum so i think the uk should honour that wish and give them it. It's for the Scottish people to decide not Westminster. I know there was one before but the SNP have been elected by the people since with it on their manifesto so there should be another for as long as any other party promising it wins a majority. If the Scottish didn't want it they'd vote elsewhere. Again just my opinion though. No right or wrong answers here.
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Post by noustie on Apr 26, 2024 11:36:58 GMT
It would be worse than brexit for Scotland surely. And the EU won't be taking them back. Spain would make sure of that. Scotland would become a total back water from what I can see. Then again I don't profess to be an expert... I'm no expert either mate and I think it's a difficult one to truly analyse as I imagine alot of articles on it are bias one way or the other depending on the stance. But I don't trust Westminster and the countries outside of England have very little say or influence over Westminster in my opinion. So I think they'd be better outside of the UK. But it's just an opinion of mine. It's pretty obvious the way I lean and not for one second do I believe it's all sweetness and light the other side if we ever did have some bollocks to vote for it. The main questions around our capability for me can be focused around - If we're such a basket case why bend over backwards to keep us? - Of all the countries leaving the commonwealth why would Scotland be the one who made the biggest arse of it? - If we couldn't manage alone then it is hardly a glowing endorsement of the previous 300+ years of UK governance - Why are European countries with similar populations like Norway, Ireland, Denmark making such a good fist of it but we'd be too poor, too wee, too stupid?
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Post by gawa on Apr 26, 2024 12:06:15 GMT
I'm no expert either mate and I think it's a difficult one to truly analyse as I imagine alot of articles on it are bias one way or the other depending on the stance. But I don't trust Westminster and the countries outside of England have very little say or influence over Westminster in my opinion. So I think they'd be better outside of the UK. But it's just an opinion of mine. It's pretty obvious the way I lean and not for one second do I believe it's all sweetness and light the other side if we ever did have some bollocks to vote for it. The main questions around our capability for me can be focused around - If we're such a basket case why bend over backwards to keep us? - Of all the countries leaving the commonwealth why would Scotland be the one who made the biggest arse of it? - If we couldn't manage alone then it is hardly a glowing endorsement of the previous 300+ years of UK governance - Why are European countries with similar populations like Norway, Ireland, Denmark making such a good fist of it but we'd be too poor, too wee, too stupid? And why have we had SNP corruption dragged out for many months with still little substance behind what the corruption is? That's not me excusing or minimilising any corruption. It's more that I don't understand why there is so much focus on it when there is a free port in teesside which has cost the country near 500 million through Ben Houchen and Michael Gove and still not a single arrest or criminal investigation of any sort. Feels to me like an attempt to discredit the SNP and drag out the process to keep them in the headlines. As there is much more pressing and financially substantial political corruption which continues to have a blind eye turned to it.
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Post by noustie on Apr 26, 2024 12:17:39 GMT
It's pretty obvious the way I lean and not for one second do I believe it's all sweetness and light the other side if we ever did have some bollocks to vote for it. The main questions around our capability for me can be focused around - If we're such a basket case why bend over backwards to keep us? - Of all the countries leaving the commonwealth why would Scotland be the one who made the biggest arse of it? - If we couldn't manage alone then it is hardly a glowing endorsement of the previous 300+ years of UK governance - Why are European countries with similar populations like Norway, Ireland, Denmark making such a good fist of it but we'd be too poor, too wee, too stupid? And why have we had SNP corruption dragged out for many months with still little substance behind what the corruption is? That's not me excusing or minimilising any corruption. It's more that I don't understand why there is so much focus on it when there is a free port in teesside which has cost the country near 500 million through Ben Houchen and Michael Gove and still not a single arrest or criminal investigation of any sort. Feels to me like an attempt to discredit the SNP and drag out the process to keep them in the headlines. As there is much more pressing and financially substantial political corruption which continues to have a blind eye turned to it. It very much is mate but the careerist politicians now in the SNP have made an arse of it and pretty much everything they touched. Salmond knew the only way to convince the population of Scotland that Independence was viable was to run the Scottish government better than West Minster and whilst he was first minister I'd argue they made a bloody good fist of it. Scratch beneath the surface of Sturgeon beyond the daily Covid briefings for the cameras and she's been an absolute fucking bin fire in comparison. Genuinely everyone with even a passing interest in Scottish politics up here has known this has been on the cards for years - the £600k 'yes' fund that they appeared to have trousered would not only be corrupt but completely fucking inept into the bargain. If you can't run the biscuit tin how can you run the economy ffs?
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Post by gawa on Apr 26, 2024 12:26:24 GMT
And why have we had SNP corruption dragged out for many months with still little substance behind what the corruption is? That's not me excusing or minimilising any corruption. It's more that I don't understand why there is so much focus on it when there is a free port in teesside which has cost the country near 500 million through Ben Houchen and Michael Gove and still not a single arrest or criminal investigation of any sort. Feels to me like an attempt to discredit the SNP and drag out the process to keep them in the headlines. As there is much more pressing and financially substantial political corruption which continues to have a blind eye turned to it. It very much is mate but the careerist politicians now in the SNP have made an arse of it and pretty much everything they touched. Salmond knew the only way to convince the population of Scotland that Independence was viable was to run the Scottish government better than West Minster and whilst he was first minister I'd argue they made a bloody good fist of it. Scratch beneath the surface of Sturgeon beyond the daily Covid briefings for the cameras and she's been an absolute fucking bin fire in comparison. Genuinely everyone with even a passing interest in Scottish politics up here has known this has been on the cards for years - the £600k 'yes' fund that they appeared to have trousered would not only be corrupt but completely fucking inept into the bargain. If you can't run the biscuit tin how can you run the economy ffs? Didn't they discredit Salmond too though? Was accused of rape and many other things and found guilty of none of it? Also smeared for appearing on Russia Today too. But then Boris has secret meetings with Russian agents and elects Russians into the house of lords while his party takes loads of Russian donations. And do the press talk about it? Barely compared to Alex Salmond for appearing on Russian TV. What yous don't need in Scotland is votes being split between Alba and SNP. While both parties are opponents of one another, they need to recognise that the common enemy is even greater. Alba hold the power in keeping Humza in place as believe the one Alba mla would have the deciding vote if all of snp backed their leader. Maybe in a strange way the parties could come to an arrangement in upcoming election in return for their support. What Scotland doesn't need is labour or tories getting their claws back into it. They'll come for your free prescriptions and uni education just like they're trying to come for our free water and prescriptions in NI too. Labour making a big song and dance about railway privatisation. Something the rest of us all already have. They'd privatise our seevices to make money of out essentials if they could. Bad news.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Apr 26, 2024 12:45:53 GMT
It would be worse than brexit for Scotland surely. And the EU won't be taking them back. Spain would make sure of that. Scotland would become a total back water from what I can see. Then again I don't profess to be an expert... I'm no expert either mate and I think it's a difficult one to truly analyse as I imagine alot of articles on it are bias one way or the other depending on the stance. But I don't trust Westminster and the countries outside of England have very little say or influence over Westminster in my opinion. So I think they'd be better outside of the UK. But it's just an opinion of mine. It's not just the countries out of Westminster it's the regions.
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Post by gawa on Apr 26, 2024 12:52:10 GMT
I'm no expert either mate and I think it's a difficult one to truly analyse as I imagine alot of articles on it are bias one way or the other depending on the stance. But I don't trust Westminster and the countries outside of England have very little say or influence over Westminster in my opinion. So I think they'd be better outside of the UK. But it's just an opinion of mine. It's not just the countries out of Westminster it's the regions. I know mate my in laws are all from the North East and they've been getting shafted for decades up there. An independant Scotland can invade the North East though to free them. 🤣🤣
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Post by Clayton Wood on Apr 26, 2024 12:56:02 GMT
$100 a barrel for Brent Crude was Salmond's target price to have a viable Scottish economy. That was before the cost of Covid, Putin, cost of living etc etc. It's been above $100 twice since 2015 and is $89 now. Having an oil based economy is now as abhorrent as a dick in a play pen.
That's before negotiating the accumulated legacy debt burden (or they think they'll just default on that), having no lender of last resort so no currency (och just take the £GBP) and by default no credit rating. If independence does ever come about we'll need to turn Hadrian's Wall into Trump's wall to keep em out (except Noustie of course!).
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Post by Clayton Wood on Apr 26, 2024 13:06:55 GMT
McYousaf says he will win confidence vote and fights on.
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Post by salopstick on Apr 26, 2024 13:27:45 GMT
It very much is mate but the careerist politicians now in the SNP have made an arse of it and pretty much everything they touched. Salmond knew the only way to convince the population of Scotland that Independence was viable was to run the Scottish government better than West Minster and whilst he was first minister I'd argue they made a bloody good fist of it. Scratch beneath the surface of Sturgeon beyond the daily Covid briefings for the cameras and she's been an absolute fucking bin fire in comparison. Genuinely everyone with even a passing interest in Scottish politics up here has known this has been on the cards for years - the £600k 'yes' fund that they appeared to have trousered would not only be corrupt but completely fucking inept into the bargain. If you can't run the biscuit tin how can you run the economy ffs? Didn't they discredit Salmond too though? Was accused of rape and many other things and found guilty of none of it? Also smeared for appearing on Russia Today too. But then Boris has secret meetings with Russian agents and elects Russians into the house of lords while his party takes loads of Russian donations. And do the press talk about it? Barely compared to Alex Salmond for appearing on Russian TV. What yous don't need in Scotland is votes being split between Alba and SNP. While both parties are opponents of one another, they need to recognise that the common enemy is even greater. Alba hold the power in keeping Humza in place as believe the one Alba mla would have the deciding vote if all of snp backed their leader. Maybe in a strange way the parties could come to an arrangement in upcoming election in return for their support. What Scotland doesn't need is labour or tories getting their claws back into it. They'll come for your free prescriptions and uni education just like they're trying to come for our free water and prescriptions in NI too. Labour making a big song and dance about railway privatisation. Something the rest of us all already have. They'd privatise our seevices to make money of out essentials if they could. Bad news. prescriptions and uni fees should not be free for those who can afford them. its an election bribe
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Post by noustie on Apr 26, 2024 13:35:59 GMT
$100 a barrel for Brent Crude was Salmond's target price to have a viable Scottish economy. That was before the cost of Covid, Putin, cost of living etc etc. It's been above $100 twice since 2015 and is $89 now. Having an oil based economy is now as abhorrent as a dick in a play pen. That's before negotiating the accumulated legacy debt burden (or they think they'll just default on that), having no lender of last resort so no currency (och just take the £GBP) and by default no credit rating. If independence does ever come about we'll need to turn Hadrian's Wall into Trump's wall to keep em out (except Noustie of course!). Works both ways that mate - nobody budgets on the top end of the cycle nor the bottom end. Why is it that every other country in the world oil is of benefit too but to Scotland it's an anchor? It was a bit mental that Salmond was continually asked budgetary questions for 10 to even 50 years in advance whereas Brexit were barely interested in the tomorrow. Norway's the home of the worlds biggest sovereign wealth fund at USD1.5 trillion so they've done no bad out of managing north sea revenues. The other thing is the renewable industry is completely and utterly reliant on O&G expertise. The SNP flogging subsea windfarm leases for absolute peanuts is even worse than anything the tories did with O&G revenue.
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Post by felonious on Apr 26, 2024 13:42:36 GMT
I'm no expert either mate and I think it's a difficult one to truly analyse as I imagine alot of articles on it are bias one way or the other depending on the stance. But I don't trust Westminster and the countries outside of England have very little say or influence over Westminster in my opinion. So I think they'd be better outside of the UK. But it's just an opinion of mine. It's pretty obvious the way I lean and not for one second do I believe it's all sweetness and light the other side if we ever did have some bollocks to vote for it. The main questions around our capability for me can be focused around - If we're such a basket case why bend over backwards to keep us? - Of all the countries leaving the commonwealth why would Scotland be the one who made the biggest arse of it? - If we couldn't manage alone then it is hardly a glowing endorsement of the previous 300+ years of UK governance - Why are European countries with similar populations like Norway, Ireland, Denmark making such a good fist of it but we'd be too poor, too wee, too stupid? If Scotland really wants independence it only has to open the vote up to the English to get it
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Post by noustie on Apr 26, 2024 13:43:43 GMT
It very much is mate but the careerist politicians now in the SNP have made an arse of it and pretty much everything they touched. Salmond knew the only way to convince the population of Scotland that Independence was viable was to run the Scottish government better than West Minster and whilst he was first minister I'd argue they made a bloody good fist of it. Scratch beneath the surface of Sturgeon beyond the daily Covid briefings for the cameras and she's been an absolute fucking bin fire in comparison. Genuinely everyone with even a passing interest in Scottish politics up here has known this has been on the cards for years - the £600k 'yes' fund that they appeared to have trousered would not only be corrupt but completely fucking inept into the bargain. If you can't run the biscuit tin how can you run the economy ffs? Didn't they discredit Salmond too though? Was accused of rape and many other things and found guilty of none of it? Also smeared for appearing on Russia Today too. But then Boris has secret meetings with Russian agents and elects Russians into the house of lords while his party takes loads of Russian donations. And do the press talk about it? Barely compared to Alex Salmond for appearing on Russian TV. What yous don't need in Scotland is votes being split between Alba and SNP. While both parties are opponents of one another, they need to recognise that the common enemy is even greater. Alba hold the power in keeping Humza in place as believe the one Alba mla would have the deciding vote if all of snp backed their leader. Maybe in a strange way the parties could come to an arrangement in upcoming election in return for their support. What Scotland doesn't need is labour or tories getting their claws back into it. They'll come for your free prescriptions and uni education just like they're trying to come for our free water and prescriptions in NI too. Labour making a big song and dance about railway privatisation. Something the rest of us all already have. They'd privatise our seevices to make money of out essentials if they could. Bad news. I reckon Salmond getting stitched up will come out in the wash eventually - there's already folk on record saying they were pressurized into reporting instances that didn't happen. There was one where they were pissed and he chanced his mitt, took it too far and admitted to but the event of it was 'sleepy cuddles'. It obviously couldn't have been that bad as she chose to continue to work for him years after. The most mental one was one of claimants got their date in the diary wrong then argued she was there on a different date. Some actor was there too and when he was asked if he remembered her being at a dinner party for a handful of people he had no recollection despite her apparently being in a sling at the time with a broken arm. Respectfully disagree on Independence parties - I'd want a central, left and right wing option because the SNP's undoing was they tried to be too broad a church. It's dangerous having one party wield so much control too as we're witnessing. It would be preferable if the Independence parties didn't absolutely hate each other though admittedly. Labour will scrap prescriptions and free uni fees within the first couple of years of getting - wouldn't be surprised if they were in government with the tories at the time too rather than having their own majority.
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Post by noustie on Apr 26, 2024 13:45:12 GMT
It's pretty obvious the way I lean and not for one second do I believe it's all sweetness and light the other side if we ever did have some bollocks to vote for it. The main questions around our capability for me can be focused around - If we're such a basket case why bend over backwards to keep us? - Of all the countries leaving the commonwealth why would Scotland be the one who made the biggest arse of it? - If we couldn't manage alone then it is hardly a glowing endorsement of the previous 300+ years of UK governance - Why are European countries with similar populations like Norway, Ireland, Denmark making such a good fist of it but we'd be too poor, too wee, too stupid? If Scotland really wants independence it only has to open the vote up to the English to get it Genuinely mate I think England deserves to be asked the question too like they were asked on Brexit. Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland - snog, marry, avoid.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Apr 26, 2024 13:47:59 GMT
$100 a barrel for Brent Crude was Salmond's target price to have a viable Scottish economy. That was before the cost of Covid, Putin, cost of living etc etc. It's been above $100 twice since 2015 and is $89 now. Having an oil based economy is now as abhorrent as a dick in a play pen. That's before negotiating the accumulated legacy debt burden (or they think they'll just default on that), having no lender of last resort so no currency (och just take the £GBP) and by default no credit rating. If independence does ever come about we'll need to turn Hadrian's Wall into Trump's wall to keep em out (except Noustie of course!). This is exactly the reason I wish they'd gone in the first place. No hard feelings but if they want to make a go if it then let them. Another Darian project would be the way to go.
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Post by noustie on Apr 26, 2024 13:48:53 GMT
McYousaf says he will win confidence vote and fights on. The whole thing is a panto - if there is a vote of no confidence in him as brought by the Tories he doesn't actually have to do a fucking thing. If on the other hand the vote of no confidence had been brought against the Scottish government then that would have been completely different. Interestingly Ash Regan (I think) who defected to Alba would hold the deciding vote potentially. Whole thing is a farce and pantomime.
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Post by noustie on Apr 26, 2024 13:51:25 GMT
Shit I've responded quite a lot on this already - reckon I must be a page and half away from just typing:
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!
in a bigger font then jumping in the car to sack Carlisle before taking on York this Sunday.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Apr 26, 2024 14:05:45 GMT
McYousaf says he will win confidence vote and fights on. The whole thing is a panto - if there is a vote of no confidence in him as brought by the Tories he doesn't actually have to do a fucking thing. If on the other hand the vote of no confidence had been brought against the Scottish government then that would have been completely different. Interestingly Ash Regan (I think) who defected to Alba would hold the deciding vote potentially. Whole thing is a farce and pantomime. Not sure if the Labour vote of no confidence in the Scottish govt has gone in yet, assume it will and not just sabre (Saltire) rattling.
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