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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 12:46:38 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 4, 2023 12:46:38 GMT
Nobody really wants them to leave. If they're going to be allowed to invest more into the club someone professional would do much better with it than they will do themselves. All it involves is them admitting they know fuck all about modern day football and hiring people who do. I nominate Tony Pulis. That would be typical of the idiotic sort of thing they'd do. Appoint someone who also knows fuck all about modern day football.
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 4, 2023 12:59:02 GMT
Unfortunately that is truth. Nobody would look at Stoke and think they could be a good investment and there no billionaire fans willing to poor to their money down the drain other than the Coates family. At least we never have to worry about administration just relegation and boredom Also there seems to be some rumblings around a change in the FFP rules so if a significant relaxation occurs the Coates's financial wealth and commitment would suddenly become a major advantage for SCFC. They may be hamstrung right now but that isn't guaranteed to remain so in the near future, it seems to me. You don't recall then what happened when they were allowed to spend money when relegated? Lazy, arrogant attitude of spending more money that the rest to give us an advantage. It doesn't work does it when you have idiots running the show?
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 13:37:15 GMT
Post by hoppo96 on Jan 4, 2023 13:37:15 GMT
FFP relaxing their rules would help but there is still a question of how we spend it. We wasted the money we had when we come down. Without a plan, it's just chucking money down the drain. And they would then cover their losses and be lauded for that. A vicious circle.
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 13:40:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2023 13:40:20 GMT
Unfortunately that is truth. Nobody would look at Stoke and think they could be a good investment and there no billionaire fans willing to poor to their money down the drain other than the Coates family. At least we never have to worry about administration just relegation and boredom Also there seems to be some rumblings around a change in the FFP rules so if a significant relaxation occurs the Coates's financial wealth and commitment would suddenly become a major advantage for SCFC. They may be hamstrung right now but that isn't guaranteed to remain so in the near future, it seems to me. Is there, since when? The only concrete information we have is a 70% wages to turnover that is being phased in over 3 years, which if anything will make it harder and tighter. What information do you have on a potential relaxation?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 4, 2023 13:57:56 GMT
Why can't he see what everyone else can see, that he needs to bring in a football person to help run the club?
Been very rich, thanks mainly to his sister, doesn't make him someone who knows how to run a professional football club.
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Post by thevoid on Jan 4, 2023 14:34:18 GMT
Gary Rowett - DISASTEROUS Spent a fortune on utter dogshit. There is no consistency to the posters reasoning. The only logic for Rowett being classeed as average is that he did ok before he came and went elsewhere and did ok too and on that basis Nathan Jones must be better. When in actual fact both were absolute dog shit as you rightly describe whilst at Stoke. We weren't in any genuine relegation danger under Rowett, we were with Jones. In fact he had a lengthy unbeaten run not long before he left (mainly draws I know). And I based it on purely on performances on the pitch rather than signings- it was a quick 10 minute thing to while away my lunch break and satisfy my own curiosity more than anything, not a university thesis 👍 Plus it was meant mainly to highlight how rarely the Coates Family make a genuinely decent appointment so if we're changing Rowett to Poor then that just emphasises the point!
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Post by thevoid on Jan 4, 2023 14:39:25 GMT
Nobody really wants them to leave. If they're going to be allowed to invest more into the club someone professional would do much better with it than they will do themselves. All it involves is them admitting they know fuck all about modern day football and hiring people who do. I nominate Tony Pulis. Do you reckon his dossier's ready yet or is there more chance of George RR Martin completing The Winds of Winter first?
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Post by thevoid on Jan 4, 2023 14:45:17 GMT
I make that 3 English men, 4 Scots men, 3 Welsh men and 1 Irish man. The Welsh have it with 2 good and a poor. The English worst with 2 poor and an average. Scots and Irish somewhere in between. Who knows I stopped paying any heed when I read that Joe Jordan was average on the basis that anything further was bound to be bullshit In my opinion he was average- he wasn't here that long and we weren't going up or going down. It's a subjective opinion that's all, I didn't say it was fact. Let's see your list then, or do you have the attention span of a gnat?
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 15:26:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by march4 on Jan 4, 2023 15:26:31 GMT
Do you reckon his dossier's ready yet or is there more chance of George RR Martin completing The Winds of Winter first? I think the first volume was ready when he left us. However, I suspect he has written a couple more sections since then. He should publish it. A title of ‘The Greatest Ever’ should suffice. Bound to be a bestseller.
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Post by iglugluk on Jan 4, 2023 15:43:27 GMT
Also there seems to be some rumblings around a change in the FFP rules so if a significant relaxation occurs the Coates's financial wealth and commitment would suddenly become a major advantage for SCFC. They may be hamstrung right now but that isn't guaranteed to remain so in the near future, it seems to me. Is there, since when? The only concrete information we have is a 70% wages to turnover that is being phased in over 3 years, which if anything will make it harder and tighter. What information do you have on a potential relaxation? No more than you do and probably no less either. I do know it's being mentioned more in the last few months though so I may be grasping at straws but then again maybe not!
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 15:44:01 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 4, 2023 15:44:01 GMT
Do you reckon his dossier's ready yet or is there more chance of George RR Martin completing The Winds of Winter first? I think the first volume was ready when he left us. However, I suspect he has written a couple more sections since then. He should publish it. A title of ‘Is That a Canoe in your shorts, or are you just pleased to see me?’ should suffice. Bound to be a bestseller. "Christmas Party?? I'll Show You a Christmas Party" The sequel 18+.
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Post by onepara on Jan 4, 2023 16:13:35 GMT
They should have a word with her at the Vale. very much the first thing that she did was to employ a manager, & someone to run the Club for her. She admitted not knowing anything about how to run one. She oversees everything to do with the Club. But then again, she is a successful business owner, who built that business up. John Coates hasn't proved that he has any business acumen. He's just been handed this one to run, & that's why we are in a mess.
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Post by thevoid on Jan 4, 2023 16:21:29 GMT
Do you reckon his dossier's ready yet or is there more chance of George RR Martin completing The Winds of Winter first? I think the first volume was ready when he left us. However, I suspect he has written a couple more sections since then. He should publish it. A title of ‘The Greatest Ever’ should suffice. Bound to be a bestseller. Well I suppose he couldn't use 'Gone in 60 Seconds'.
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Post by dirtclod on Jan 4, 2023 16:36:39 GMT
There is no consistency to the posters reasoning. The only logic for Rowett being classeed as average is that he did ok before he came and went elsewhere and did ok too and on that basis Nathan Jones must be better. When in actual fact both were absolute dog shit as you rightly describe whilst at Stoke. We weren't in any genuine relegation danger under Rowett, we were with Jones. In fact he had a lengthy unbeaten run not long before he left (mainly draws I know). And I based it on purely on performances on the pitch rather than signings- it was a quick 10 minute thing to while away my lunch break and satisfy my own curiosity more than anything, not a university thesis 👍 Plus it was meant mainly to highlight how rarely the Coates Family make a genuinely decent appointment so if we're changing Rowett to Poor then that just emphasises the point! Agree - didn't feel that we were under genuine relegation danger under Rowett. Guess one could argue though that he was the worst of the worst with the 50 million expenditure on crap that we're just now getting over, but 1/2 of that blame has to go to the club. But then we followed that up with this inexplicable hiring of Jones ... who really just piled on to the 50 million crap-pile with even more inexplicable recruitment of players that didn't fit anything. Regardless of who ends up winning the Futility Trophy - Capt. Obvious has concluded that our manager-hiring track record sucks!
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 16:42:03 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 4, 2023 16:42:03 GMT
I think the first volume was ready when he left us. However, I suspect he has written a couple more sections since then. He should publish it. A title of ‘The Greatest Ever’ should suffice. Bound to be a bestseller. Well I suppose he couldn't use 'Gone in 60 Seconds'. HUMAN SHEILDS "You'd only be punishing the people of Stoke-on-Trent, your Honour"
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 17:19:57 GMT
Post by iglugluk on Jan 4, 2023 17:19:57 GMT
Also there seems to be some rumblings around a change in the FFP rules so if a significant relaxation occurs the Coates's financial wealth and commitment would suddenly become a major advantage for SCFC. They may be hamstrung right now but that isn't guaranteed to remain so in the near future, it seems to me. You don't recall then what happened when they were allowed to spend money when relegated? Lazy, arrogant attitude of spending more money that the rest to give us an advantage. It doesn't work does it when you have idiots running the show? Of course I remember, although if they were both allowed and prepared to keep throwing money at the problem there's a good possibility it would eventually work. I know that's a BIG 'if' but possibly not impossible. I'm certainly not holding my breath but I do think a change of owners is not ultimately the answer. Of course I could be completely wrong!
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Post by iglugluk on Jan 4, 2023 17:22:56 GMT
Also there seems to be some rumblings around a change in the FFP rules so if a significant relaxation occurs the Coates's financial wealth and commitment would suddenly become a major advantage for SCFC. They may be hamstrung right now but that isn't guaranteed to remain so in the near future, it seems to me. Nobody really wants them to leave. If they're going to be allowed to invest more into the club someone professional would do much better with it than they will do themselves. All it involves is them admitting they know fuck all about modern day football and hiring people who do. I completely agree with your point. Jon has brought the situation to a head and he needs to admit his incompetence to himself.
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 17:24:25 GMT
Post by iglugluk on Jan 4, 2023 17:24:25 GMT
Nobody really wants them to leave. If they're going to be allowed to invest more into the club someone professional would do much better with it than they will do themselves. All it involves is them admitting they know fuck all about modern day football and hiring people who do. I nominate Tony Pulis. Not particularly surprising
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 17:30:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by iamstokie on Jan 4, 2023 17:30:41 GMT
Also there seems to be some rumblings around a change in the FFP rules so if a significant relaxation occurs the Coates's financial wealth and commitment would suddenly become a major advantage for SCFC. They may be hamstrung right now but that isn't guaranteed to remain so in the near future, it seems to me. Is there, since when? The only concrete information we have is a 70% wages to turnover that is being phased in over 3 years, which if anything will make it harder and tighter. What information do you have on a potential relaxation? Isn’t there something about they give more than the 8mil a year that they can now , I think I’ve seen that written somewhere
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Post by thevoid on Jan 4, 2023 18:28:47 GMT
We weren't in any genuine relegation danger under Rowett, we were with Jones. In fact he had a lengthy unbeaten run not long before he left (mainly draws I know). And I based it on purely on performances on the pitch rather than signings- it was a quick 10 minute thing to while away my lunch break and satisfy my own curiosity more than anything, not a university thesis 👍 Plus it was meant mainly to highlight how rarely the Coates Family make a genuinely decent appointment so if we're changing Rowett to Poor then that just emphasises the point! Agree - didn't feel that we were under genuine relegation danger under Rowett. Guess one could argue though that he was the worst of the worst with the 50 million expenditure on crap that we're just now getting over, but 1/2 of that blame has to go to the club. But then we followed that up with this inexplicable hiring of Jones ... who really just piled on to the 50 million crap-pile with even more inexplicable recruitment of players that didn't fit anything. Regardless of who ends up winning the Futility Trophy - Capt. Obvious has concluded that our manager-hiring track record sucks! Handing north of 60m to a bloke who was used to working on a budget and had no promotions to his name was a foolhardy risk in itself. Like his namesake Megson, maybe Rowett would have been better thought of with lower expectations and a smaller budget?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 4, 2023 18:34:51 GMT
Nobody really wants them to leave. If they're going to be allowed to invest more into the club someone professional would do much better with it than they will do themselves. All it involves is them admitting they know fuck all about modern day football and hiring people who do. I completely agree with your point. Jon has brought the situation to a head and he needs to admit his incompetence to himself. True but many revisionists seem to portray Peter as being far more competent in terms of running a football club than he actually was.
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 18:44:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by questionable on Jan 4, 2023 18:44:51 GMT
Nobody really wants them to leave. If they're going to be allowed to invest more into the club someone professional would do much better with it than they will do themselves. All it involves is them admitting they know fuck all about modern day football and hiring people who do. I completely agree with your point. Jon has brought the situation to a head and he needs to admit his incompetence to himself. A close friend had business dealings with him, a story you’d never believe but true.
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 20:05:59 GMT
Post by iglugluk on Jan 4, 2023 20:05:59 GMT
I completely agree with your point. Jon has brought the situation to a head and he needs to admit his incompetence to himself. A close friend had business dealings with him, a story you’d never believe but true. I assume it's not repeatable in an open public forum?
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Coates
Jan 4, 2023 20:09:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by potterpaul on Jan 4, 2023 20:09:54 GMT
I completely agree with your point. Jon has brought the situation to a head and he needs to admit his incompetence to himself. A close friend had business dealings with him, a story you’d never believe but true. I threw back the canvas cover to reveal it....it was a sight to behold....honest , true story.
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Post by dirtclod on Jan 4, 2023 21:11:42 GMT
Agree - didn't feel that we were under genuine relegation danger under Rowett. Guess one could argue though that he was the worst of the worst with the 50 million expenditure on crap that we're just now getting over, but 1/2 of that blame has to go to the club. But then we followed that up with this inexplicable hiring of Jones ... who really just piled on to the 50 million crap-pile with even more inexplicable recruitment of players that didn't fit anything. Regardless of who ends up winning the Futility Trophy - Capt. Obvious has concluded that our manager-hiring track record sucks! Handing north of 60m to a bloke who was used to working on a budget and had no promotions to his name was a foolhardy risk in itself. Like his namesake Megson, maybe Rowett would have been better thought of with lower expectations and a smaller budget? Likely. Especially if he could have avoided going to war with supporters, but lower expectations may have also avoided that scenario altogether. I recall reading where he later admitted to being at odds with the fans being one of his mistakes here. So he's capable of lessons learned - which would have put him at odds with our leadership eventually. (Who say they learn, but don't) Also remember several on here saying something like, "If you think we're just going to bounce right up, you're mistaken no matter how much money we dump." At the time, the squad needed 50 million + worth of players (Prima Donna replacements) and I think the ones saying it had a true appreciation of how hard it is to get up out of this Championship and stay up. I know that I lacked that appreciation at the time. But then we had to go and choose worse players... It's tough to sit here in hindsight and not get angry at everybody and everything. But it's hindsight - I thought Rowett would do a job here, (At the time) I really did. But just when things started getting bumpy, he then inflames the support and the rest is history. The one thing I'm learning here is that (Statistically) few managers are capable of a rebuild like that unilaterally, unless they just luck out. And the ones that can, we either can't attract or can't afford. Not in this day/age - they all have "whiffs." And when you're trying something as difficult as escaping the Championship - you can't have but 1 or 2 "whiffs" and the reckless gamble backfires. Managers have enough to do on-pitch management, dealing with stupid assed media questions and motivation/personality-juggling/peacekeeping amongst players. There needs to be a "football" brain in the mix who can assess players, then work WITH the manager as to what style/tactics/type of player he really needs. Something like, don't bother the manager until you have researched, analyzed and come up with a "Top 3" prospects for each position first. At least save the manager that time ffs. Hell Tachyon could probably do that in his sleep before going and watching anyone. (Narrow the list down first) I mean look at Imbula - we saw him excel against us once and all of a sudden, he's the "answer?" He was an answer alright [insert loud buzzer sound here] And I don't know who did the "research" on Jese, but just a quick look would have confirmed a legitimate "madarse" status on that one. A DJ isn't going to help you on-pitch that much, unless you're trying to put together a titillating half-time show.
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Coates
Jan 5, 2023 15:45:19 GMT
Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 5, 2023 15:45:19 GMT
He seems the type if you upset him,He will take his ball home because he didn't get his way.
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Post by biglad180 on Jan 27, 2023 15:20:49 GMT
its been quoted where the Coates family paid a £460 pound tax bill in this country, and we are still fXxxed over by FFP, yet chelsea and Man city with foreign owners are allowed to spend what they like and get away with it,surly any one paying that amount of tax in England should be allowed to spend there money as they like,
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 27, 2023 16:22:05 GMT
I haven't read all of this thread, but I have seen a number of negative comments about John Coates. I've never met him, so don't feel in a position to comment on the fairness or otherwise of some of those comments. I got to know Peter Coates quite well when we were both on the FA Council (we both had to come off when reaching the age limit - age discrimination - I was surprised it's legal) and often had chats about Stoke City. I have a lot of respect for Peter's abilities and knowledge of football. He is certainly well respected in the game. In the context of this discussion, there is one significant difference between Peter and John, in that the latter attends the Supporters Council, unlike his father. I don't know whether that, and the fact that the Club didn't appoint a new "Chief Executive" after Tony Scholes left, indicates that John has a more hands-on role than his father did, but it certainly gives fans an opportunity which should be used to speak directly to the owners about the issues raised in this thread, including the Club's business plan, financial strategy, staffing structure, senior roles, FFP etc. Quite a while ago I submitted a question about this but from the SC minutes it didn't seem to get a detailed discussion or any very clear answers from the Club. Of Course I wasn't at the meeting so can't say whether the minutes fairly reflected the discussion. And anyway things have changed since then at both national and club level ( eg new EFL rules, significant changes of personnel on both the football and non-football side of the Club). The Council is the place where supporters can question the owner about these things and if the answers aren't clear or satisfactory in any way, come back at John. It should be possible to have a detailed discussion at a forum of that size, and take advantage of the fact that he's there. The 'customer service' and infrastructure issues which appear on the agenda are of course important, but not more so than the financial and governance issues which feature in this thread.
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Coates
Jan 27, 2023 16:24:40 GMT
Post by Northy on Jan 27, 2023 16:24:40 GMT
its been quoted where the Coates family paid a £460 pound tax bill in this country, and we are still fXxxed over by FFP, yet chelsea and Man city with foreign owners are allowed to spend what they like and get away with it,surly any one paying that amount of tax in England should be allowed to spend there money as they like, I think you missed 'million' off the end of 460
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Coates
Jan 27, 2023 16:29:54 GMT
Post by shrewspotter on Jan 27, 2023 16:29:54 GMT
Yes, you are right. 460 million pound tax bill paid by Coates but cannot spend 1 million on player as its unfair apparently
This country is ruined I am afraid, some of the decisions from our MP's in their ivory towers are baffling, stink of hypocrisy and favoritism. The FA along with the premier league are fixated with the big 6 so they can bring in the next Lionel Messi so Sky's billions will keep them in all rich while everyone else can piss off, while all the time the foreign owners who dont give a shit about the club they own use the clubs to make them wealthier whilst dodging taxes and bleeding them dry. When the gravy train ends (and it will, maybe not today or tomorrow) they will be off counting their billions and moving onto the next country leaving fans to pick up the pieces
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