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Post by idle on Dec 11, 2022 7:30:13 GMT
I don't care that its in Qatar. Qatar isn't the real problem.
Sure, gays don't have rights in Qatar. They don't in Russia either. Or South Africa. Or Brazil. Ok, they have rights there, but the cops don't care. The WC is actually a chance to nudge opinion in those places.
And I'm mad when the stadiums are: 1. built by slave labor 2: never going to be used again (except for public hangings, I suppose). But every single person that has read a newspaper knew that that is how the gulf states gets things done. Hell, we even hear stories about the same in Europe. Labor exploitation isn't new, it's normal in capitalism!
The real problem is FIFA. They'e a bunch of crooks, taking bribes from shit states like Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Russia so they can arrange the WC. "Democratic" institutions doesn't work when 90% of the members come from dictatorship countries where the entire sport hinges on the bribe they get from the arranging nation. Or maybe it does, and we're being naive. Infantino is a crook bastard though, and 95% of the FIFA representatives are as well.
Will I boycott the US world cup? Yes, if it comes to light that FIFA representatives took bribes again. And they probably did. I even think that fat american was arrested by the FBI, but I'm not sure if it was related to the Qatar WC or the US one.
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 11, 2022 8:35:37 GMT
I don't care that its in Qatar. Qatar isn't the real problem. Sure, gays don't have rights in Qatar. They don't in Russia either. Or South Africa. Or Brazil. Ok, they have rights there, but the cops don't care. The WC is actually a chance to nudge opinion in those places. And I'm mad when the stadiums are: 1. built by slave labor 2: never going to be used again (except for public hangings, I suppose). But every single person that has read a newspaper knew that that is how the gulf states gets things done. Hell, we even hear stories about the same in Europe. Labor exploitation isn't new, it's normal in capitalism! The real problem is FIFA. They'e a bunch of crooks, taking bribes from shit states like Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Russia so they can arrange the WC. "Democratic" institutions doesn't work when 90% of the members come from dictatorship countries where the entire sport hinges on the bribe they get from the arranging nation. Or maybe it does, and we're being naive. Infantino is a crook bastard though, and 95% of the FIFA representatives are as well. Will I boycott the US world cup? Yes, if it comes to light that FIFA representatives took bribes again. And they probably did. I even think that fat american was arrested by the FBI, but I'm not sure if it was related to the Qatar WC or the US one. 2026 is linked to corruption but in a different way. The raids and criminal investigations were led by the USA. Them hosting means they're happy and will shut up about it all. I'm guessing Mexico got some of the action because they know stuff. Stuff that will now remain undisclosed
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Post by blackpoolred on Dec 11, 2022 8:58:02 GMT
How have the people who proposed to boycott the current Men's World Cup fared? Not sure how a boycott works these days with all the access to internet news, social media, TV coverage etc, pretty hard to avoid it all together? Is it just a case of not watching any live games or highlights on television, not buying any merchandise or products from FIFA sponsors? If you've boycotted, fair enough, but you've certainly missed a very good tournament so far. What do you think your boycott has achieved, on a personal and a broader level? Great question I’ve been banging the boycott drum for years now, but you are spot on that it’s almost impossible to avoid - and what good will one person do? My housemates already pay for SkySport (NZ broadcaster) so it’s not like I can hit them in the pocket. In the end I decided to highlight that I still disagree with it and laid out the reasons why. I’ve accepted that as a football man it’s almost impossible for me to avoid the WC, so I’ve committed to donating £5 to Amnesty International for every live game I watch (the time difference has made it tricky) and I’ve encouraged others who feel the same. So in a nutshell I failed the boycott, but I still feel like people with my stance can do a modicum of good Will you do the same when the WC goes to the US - what do you think of their human rights record? What about when F1 goes to Qatar and the Middle East and the Olympic Games to China? What about if it was in England where we have had a bad hooligan element, over 1 million people go hungry, we have a former prime minister found guilty of war crimes, corrupt politicians and monarchy and women are drugged and pimped out for prostitution
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Post by idle on Dec 11, 2022 9:16:47 GMT
Will you do the same when the WC goes to the US - what do you think of their human rights record? What about when F1 goes to Qatar and the Middle East and the Olympic Games to China? What about if it was in England where we have had a bad hooligan element, over 1 million people go hungry, we have a former prime minister found guilty of war crimes, corrupt politicians and monarchy and women are drugged and pimped out for prostitution So, what are you really saying here? No one can ever try to do anything good because there is other injustice in the world?
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Post by idle on Dec 11, 2022 9:19:54 GMT
2026 is linked to corruption but in a different way. The raids and criminal investigations were led by the USA. Them hosting means they're happy and will shut up about it all. I'm guessing Mexico got some of the action because they know stuff. Stuff that will now remain undisclosed I'm not so sure the FBI will shut up. Say what you will about the US, but they do have a justice system that's not completely controlled by a supreme leader who's invested a lot of money into getting the WC. The thing is, the FBI is perfect for raiding and investigating FIFA because it's from one of the few countries in the world where football isn't the most important religion. But we'll see.
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 11, 2022 9:22:45 GMT
2026 is linked to corruption but in a different way. The raids and criminal investigations were led by the USA. Them hosting means they're happy and will shut up about it all. I'm guessing Mexico got some of the action because they know stuff. Stuff that will now remain undisclosed I'm not so sure the FBI will shut up. Say what you will about the US, but they do have a justice system that's not completely controlled by a supreme leader who's invested a lot of money into getting the WC. The thing is, the FBI is perfect for raiding and investigating FIFA because it's from one of the few countries in the world where football isn't the most important religion. But we'll see. There's no vested interest in them investigating Fifa while they're hosting the next world cup. It'd be self defeating
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Post by idle on Dec 11, 2022 9:27:18 GMT
I'm not so sure the FBI will shut up. Say what you will about the US, but they do have a justice system that's not completely controlled by a supreme leader who's invested a lot of money into getting the WC. The thing is, the FBI is perfect for raiding and investigating FIFA because it's from one of the few countries in the world where football isn't the most important religion. But we'll see. There's no vested interest in them investigating Fifa while they're hosting the next world cup. It'd be self defeating Yeah, that's why FIFA gave them the WC. But again, we'll see. There are a lot of people who don't like soccer in the US.
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Post by blackpoolred on Dec 11, 2022 17:01:12 GMT
Will you do the same when the WC goes to the US - what do you think of their human rights record? What about when F1 goes to Qatar and the Middle East and the Olympic Games to China? What about if it was in England where we have had a bad hooligan element, over 1 million people go hungry, we have a former prime minister found guilty of war crimes, corrupt politicians and monarchy and women are drugged and pimped out for prostitution So, what are you really saying here? No one can ever try to do anything good because there is other injustice in the world? Did not say what they were doing was not good - just interested to hear whether they are going to be consistent and boycott tournaments held in countries like America/England - also countries with appalling human rights issues Or do we pick n chose events/sports, for instance, why was everybody so bothered about football when other events have been held in that region? And do we ignore or even worse are oblivious to the atrocities that go on in our own countries? Nobody from America/England can get on their high horse about things going on in Qatar - can they?
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Post by idle on Dec 11, 2022 17:25:58 GMT
Did not say what they were doing was not good - just interested to hear whether they are going to be consistent and boycott tournaments held in countries like America/England - also countries with appalling human rights issues Or do we pick n chose events/sports, for instance, why was everybody so bothered about football when other events have been held in that region? And do we ignore or even worse are oblivious to the atrocities that go on in our own countries? Nobody from America/England can get on their high horse about things going on in Qatar - can they? I think the human rights angle is wrong. It's not them, its FIFA and those fuckers Infantino and Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani. And the workers being killed in the construction is a real issue. 6,500 migrant workers have died in Qatar since World Cup awarded. 101.6 deaths per game. That’s over 1 death per minute of planned football. And even if just half of these died while working on stadiums or the infrastructure that directly supports the WC, that's still 50 dead per game. Think about that for a second. That doesn't happen in the US or UK. I don't care about F1 or Track&Field, or even the olympics. I care about football. And football is now controlled by a bunch of rich cunts, and being used to promote slave states or to enrich leech capitalists who do lots of financial barely legal shit to make a buck like selling the clubs stadium or borrow money to buy clubs with the club itself as collateral. Why is this legal? Because FIFA and the FAs of most countries are corrupt as fuck. Sometimes people jump on the right bandwagons for the wrong reasons. But this often leads to better understanding of the issues when they learn more about it. So I think any sort of action taken against FIFA is good. Qatar would be a shithole whether the WC was there or not.
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Dec 11, 2022 18:06:38 GMT
2026 is linked to corruption but in a different way. The raids and criminal investigations were led by the USA. Them hosting means they're happy and will shut up about it all. I'm guessing Mexico got some of the action because they know stuff. Stuff that will now remain undisclosed I'm not so sure the FBI will shut up. Say what you will about the US, but they do have a justice system that's not completely controlled by a supreme leader who's invested a lot of money into getting the WC. The thing is, the FBI is perfect for raiding and investigating FIFA because it's from one of the few countries in the world where football isn't the most important religion. But we'll see. The FBI should sort out the corruption in their own country before getting involved in anything else
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Post by upthefud on Dec 11, 2022 18:23:58 GMT
Great question I’ve been banging the boycott drum for years now, but you are spot on that it’s almost impossible to avoid - and what good will one person do? My housemates already pay for SkySport (NZ broadcaster) so it’s not like I can hit them in the pocket. In the end I decided to highlight that I still disagree with it and laid out the reasons why. I’ve accepted that as a football man it’s almost impossible for me to avoid the WC, so I’ve committed to donating £5 to Amnesty International for every live game I watch (the time difference has made it tricky) and I’ve encouraged others who feel the same. So in a nutshell I failed the boycott, but I still feel like people with my stance can do a modicum of good Will you do the same when the WC goes to the US - what do you think of their human rights record? What about when F1 goes to Qatar and the Middle East and the Olympic Games to China? What about if it was in England where we have had a bad hooligan element, over 1 million people go hungry, we have a former prime minister found guilty of war crimes, corrupt politicians and monarchy and women are drugged and pimped out for prostitution No interest in F1 so yep easy to boycott that one Would also agree there are a lot of other awful countries including China, although you are incredibly over the top in your assessment of England. The one thing that countries like China have with the Olympics is proper sporting heritage and infrastructure. China regularly finish 1st or 2nd in the medals table. Qatar had no football history or stadiums whatsoever, and people literally died building the sham in atrocious conditions. FIFA saw it and allowed it. I would boycott if England hired loads of migrant workers to build a massive desert to host the world camel championships, because we do t have any history in that sport
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Post by idle on Dec 11, 2022 19:25:54 GMT
I'm not so sure the FBI will shut up. Say what you will about the US, but they do have a justice system that's not completely controlled by a supreme leader who's invested a lot of money into getting the WC. The thing is, the FBI is perfect for raiding and investigating FIFA because it's from one of the few countries in the world where football isn't the most important religion. But we'll see. The FBI should sort out the corruption in their own country before getting involved in anything else They did. They went after Chuck Blazer, an american FIFA representative, who then turned and gave up several other FIFA crooks, including Blatter.
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Post by blackpoolred on Dec 11, 2022 23:10:12 GMT
Did not say what they were doing was not good - just interested to hear whether they are going to be consistent and boycott tournaments held in countries like America/England - also countries with appalling human rights issues Or do we pick n chose events/sports, for instance, why was everybody so bothered about football when other events have been held in that region? And do we ignore or even worse are oblivious to the atrocities that go on in our own countries? Nobody from America/England can get on their high horse about things going on in Qatar - can they? I think the human rights angle is wrong. It's not them, its FIFA and those fuckers Infantino and Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani. And the workers being killed in the construction is a real issue. 6,500 migrant workers have died in Qatar since World Cup awarded. 101.6 deaths per game. That’s over 1 death per minute of planned football. And even if just half of these died while working on stadiums or the infrastructure that directly supports the WC, that's still 50 dead per game. Think about that for a second. That doesn't happen in the US or UK. I don't care about F1 or Track&Field, or even the olympics. I care about football. And football is now controlled by a bunch of rich cunts, and being used to promote slave states or to enrich leech capitalists who do lots of financial barely legal shit to make a buck like selling the clubs stadium or borrow money to buy clubs with the club itself as collateral. Why is this legal? Because FIFA and the FAs of most countries are corrupt as fuck. Sometimes people jump on the right bandwagons for the wrong reasons. But this often leads to better understanding of the issues when they learn more about it. So I think any sort of action taken against FIFA is good. Qatar would be a shithole whether the WC was there or not. Can't disagree with much of that but if FIFA and the FAs are corrupt in most countries, and I agree with you, should we not boycott all of the world cups, until something is done about it? Just about everything in Qatar has been connected to human rights from the construction of the stadiums to it being illegal to be gay, so disagree about human rights being the wrong angle. Football/Soccer is going to the US in 4 years a country, arguably, that has more human rights atrocities going on than Qatar and yet nobody will bat an eyelid about going there in 4 years and there will be nothing in our media about boycotting it, Joe Lycett won't be burning £10,000 because half of the American nation thinks it is a sin to be gay, and nothing will be said about how the US, that great footballing nation, has managed to bag 2 world cups in a short amount of time – is it not hypocrisy at its absolute worst?
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Post by blackpoolred on Dec 11, 2022 23:15:51 GMT
Will you do the same when the WC goes to the US - what do you think of their human rights record? What about when F1 goes to Qatar and the Middle East and the Olympic Games to China? What about if it was in England where we have had a bad hooligan element, over 1 million people go hungry, we have a former prime minister found guilty of war crimes, corrupt politicians and monarchy and women are drugged and pimped out for prostitution No interest in F1 so yep easy to boycott that one Would also agree there are a lot of other awful countries including China, although you are incredibly over the top in your assessment of England. The one thing that countries like China have with the Olympics is proper sporting heritage and infrastructure. China regularly finish 1st or 2nd in the medals table. Qatar had no football history or stadiums whatsoever, and people literally died building the sham in atrocious conditions. FIFA saw it and allowed it. I would boycott if England hired loads of migrant workers to build a massive desert to host the world camel championships, because we do t have any history in that sport I think it is a given that FIFA are a little corrupt and I don’t think anything is about to change on that score. As a matter of interest, what is it that you consider incredibly over the top of my assessment of England? You think that China, who have an appalling human rights record, should be allowed to host the Olympics because they are good at it? That is a hard logic to follow - should Prince Andrew, therefore, be the next Pope Talking about England building a massive dessert to host the Cammel championships - How do you feel about the US, that well-known footballing hotbed, hosting their second world cup in a short period of time – I take it you think that was also a corrupt bid and therefore will be boycotting that in 4 years time?
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Post by upthefud on Dec 12, 2022 1:55:59 GMT
No interest in F1 so yep easy to boycott that one Would also agree there are a lot of other awful countries including China, although you are incredibly over the top in your assessment of England. The one thing that countries like China have with the Olympics is proper sporting heritage and infrastructure. China regularly finish 1st or 2nd in the medals table. Qatar had no football history or stadiums whatsoever, and people literally died building the sham in atrocious conditions. FIFA saw it and allowed it. I would boycott if England hired loads of migrant workers to build a massive desert to host the world camel championships, because we do t have any history in that sport I think it is a given that FIFA are a little corrupt and I don’t think anything is about to change on that score. As a matter of interest, what is it that you consider incredibly over the top of my assessment of England? You think that China, who have an appalling human rights record, should be allowed to host the Olympics because they are good at it? That is a hard logic to follow - should Prince Andrew, therefore, be the next Pope Talking about England building a massive dessert to host the Cammel championships - How do you feel about the US, that well-known footballing hotbed, hosting their second world cup in a short period of time – I take it you think that was also a corrupt bid and therefore will be boycotting that in 4 years time? USA have qualified for the vast majority of tournaments in my 33 year lifetime. They have enough heritage to host a WC. They also have stadiums and infrastructure readymade and will not be abusing a migrant work force to build stadia which will be left unused after one 4 week period. China have a rich Olympic heritage, and will not be abusing a migrant workforce to build stadia and infrastructure that will be left to rot after one 4 week period. Approx 6000 workers died building this World Cup, many more were denied exit visas and faced appalling working conditions. I appreciate that you don’t agree with me - that is absolutely fine. You’ve asked for my criteria and that’s it.
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Post by zommbee on Dec 12, 2022 22:20:59 GMT
Some excellent and interesting replies to the OP and the thread in general, much more than expected. There was never an intention to belittle anyone for boycotting or attempting to boycott, just interested to hear how people went about it and if they felt it made a difference even in the smallest way. Some positive outcomes at least. Thanks for the responses.
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Post by zommbee on Dec 12, 2022 22:25:54 GMT
How have the people who proposed to boycott the current Men's World Cup fared? Not sure how a boycott works these days with all the access to internet news, social media, TV coverage etc, pretty hard to avoid it all together? Is it just a case of not watching any live games or highlights on television, not buying any merchandise or products from FIFA sponsors? If you've boycotted, fair enough, but you've certainly missed a very good tournament so far. What do you think your boycott has achieved, on a personal and a broader level? Do we really need to state MENS World Cup. Sorry but it does my head in I agree Just being diplomatic, damned if you do it, damned if you don't.
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Post by zommbee on Dec 12, 2022 22:32:14 GMT
Going forward a few changes need to take place.....no more World Cups should be held in the Middle East (too hot, crap Yank beer and/or no beer)......and starting in 2030 alternate WC between Europe and South America only. I would like the next World Cup to be in Morocco. Its not really a World Cup if its only in Europe or South America. Morocco bid for the next one in 2026, lost to USA/Mexico/Canada 65 votes to 134. They're bidding for 2030 too, lots of competition though.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 12, 2022 22:47:48 GMT
So it's not OK to watch this tournament but its OK to watch the cricket in Pakistan and other sport in countries with suspect human rights. The neo-colonial racism and astounding levels of hypocrisy shown by Western nations (notably the reporting and media of England and Germany) in this world cup has been dreadful. The World Cup should not have been held in Qatar for football reasons, not political or religious. Where were these virtue signalling, self righteous, condescending dorks in South Africa in 2010, Brazil 2014 and Russia 2018? While we're at it why don't we just cancel all future cricket tours to Pakistan, Bangladesh and the West Indies because they have a different way of life to us?
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 13, 2022 11:52:00 GMT
I would like the next World Cup to be in Morocco. Its not really a World Cup if its only in Europe or South America. Morocco bid for the next one in 2026, lost to USA/Mexico/Canada 65 votes to 134. They're bidding for 2030 too, lots of competition though. 2030 should be in South America to mark the centenary.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 13, 2022 17:57:05 GMT
Morocco bid for the next one in 2026, lost to USA/Mexico/Canada 65 votes to 134. They're bidding for 2030 too, lots of competition though. 2030 should be in South America to mark the centenary. It’s about time it came home. End of. One World Cup in 100 years is ridiculous when you compare to Mexico which is soon to be 3 in 56 years
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 13, 2022 19:00:48 GMT
2030 should be in South America to mark the centenary. It’s about time it came home. End of. One World Cup in 100 years is ridiculous when you compare to Mexico which is soon to be 3 in 56 years Agree. But, in all the political machinations, England haven't always helped themselves
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 13, 2022 19:23:49 GMT
From my perspective, the timing has been great. I’m all for a winter World Cup. Summer is for tennis, golf and cricket.
The break from stoke city has been absolutely fantastic as well.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 13, 2022 19:26:28 GMT
From my perspective, the timing has been great. I’m all for a winter World Cup. Summer is for tennis, golf and cricket. The break from stoke city has been absolutely fantastic as well. I’d personally rather summer was for cricket, golf and the World Cup! I get your point but I don’t want another. Beers in the sun and World Cup nogger, you can’t beat it
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