|
Post by bgreen13 on Jan 21, 2023 7:01:11 GMT
Grant is absolute shite. Suppose he'll fit in with the rest of the squad He isn't though is he?
|
|
|
Post by Biblical on Jan 21, 2023 7:23:25 GMT
It makes more sense that we need space in the squad and wages to get players in the manager wants, or do you think all the loans got together and said fuck this we're out of here, you're desperate for it be something stoke have done wrong rather than an on going plan by the manager. At no point did I say the loans had to get together. They didn't have to. They just had to look at the league position, the way they the team is performing and what was going on around them to realise they were were in a club in free fall and got out before it had be an adverse career. And their parent clubs helped bail them out because it wasn't helping their development or their resale value. The manager may well have a plan. The thing is a plan doesn't stop shit happening and no matter how many times a manager says it's all going to plan anybody with half a brain and consequently zero faith in any manager knows they are talking through their arse in a desperate attempt to convince people they are in control whereas in reality it's all gone tits up. I'm not desperate to see Stoke doing something wrong. I don't have to be - it's bleeding obvious they are. Everyone can have an opinion but what you’re saying is just that rather than some provable fact. I trust the manager when he says he has some players he didn’t want and needs to make room, and Clarke he had no option on.
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Jan 21, 2023 7:53:36 GMT
Grant is absolute shite. Suppose he'll fit in with the rest of the squad He isn't though is he? His stats say he is a prolific goalscorer I would say.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 21, 2023 8:20:16 GMT
At no point did I say the loans had to get together. They didn't have to. They just had to look at the league position, the way they the team is performing and what was going on around them to realise they were were in a club in free fall and got out before it had be an adverse career. And their parent clubs helped bail them out because it wasn't helping their development or their resale value. The manager may well have a plan. The thing is a plan doesn't stop shit happening and no matter how many times a manager says it's all going to plan anybody with half a brain and consequently zero faith in any manager knows they are talking through their arse in a desperate attempt to convince people they are in control whereas in reality it's all gone tits up. I'm not desperate to see Stoke doing something wrong. I don't have to be - it's bleeding obvious they are. Everyone can have an opinion but what you’re saying is just that rather than some provable fact. I trust the manager when he says he has some players he didn’t want and needs to make room, and Clarke he had no option on. You are right in that I'm speculating and what I'm saying is an opinion rather a fact the question is whether what I'm saying is consistent with what's happened. If the departures were part of a masterplan the gap between players leaving and a replacement coming in would be a matter of days at most. The idea put forward by some that we need to get rid before we can bring in doesn't stack up for loanees because any savings aren't significant and as there's no transfer fee it doesn't improve who we can bring in as a replacement one iota. That argument only makes sense for perms and I agree that the plan probably includes having to sell Souttar before we can bring in any players who might cost a fee. However having to sell your best players is hardly the sign of a club in charge of its own destiny and watching players disappearing around you is not going to encourage others to stay. Players are walking, others are clearly in the shop window and others must know by now they don't have a future in a Neil team even if they make it past the January deadline. The squad is not in a good place and that sort of atmosphere influences the decisions players make. I'm not anti Neil per se - he's got a good track record and if given the chance to shape the squad the way he wants it (which will take 2 summer windows at least) he could do well here. However that does not mean I have to believe he's in full control of the current situation - for me he clearly isn't. If others choose to believe he is that's fine - but I really think that's just wishful thinking and doesn't really explain what's actually happening.
|
|
|
Post by gingerninja on Jan 21, 2023 8:25:32 GMT
How many do we see coming in before it closes, with 5 having left and possibly more still going to depart, I would think a minimum of 4?.
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 21, 2023 8:30:35 GMT
It makes more sense that we need space in the squad and wages to get players in the manager wants, or do you think all the loans got together and said fuck this we're out of here, you're desperate for it be something stoke have done wrong rather than an on going plan by the manager. At no point did I say the loans had to get together. They didn't have to. They just had to look at the league position, the way they the team is performing and what was going on around them to realise they were were in a club in free fall and got out before it had be an adverse career. And their parent clubs helped bail them out because it wasn't helping their development or their resale value. The manager may well have a plan. The thing is a plan doesn't stop shit happening and no matter how many times a manager says it's all going to plan anybody with half a brain and consequently zero faith in any manager knows they are talking through their arse in a desperate attempt to convince people they are in control whereas in reality it's all gone tits up. I'm not desperate to see Stoke doing something wrong. I don't have to be - it's bleeding obvious they are. As the loaners have gone to Ipswich, Preston and Rotherham, it appears they are not very good and Neil wanted better. Clarke offers no creativity and is an unpredictable defender, Fosu has moments but doesn’t really have a position, and Delap has potential but needs time we don’t have. Add in Bursik and the chances are, especially with cash if we sell, we can improve in all 4 positions.
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 21, 2023 8:38:32 GMT
Personally I think it’s brilliant what the manager is doing in terms of letting people move on. He doesn’t think they are good enough or has to make room due to money and if it’s broke you have to make changes otherwise it will continue and no one’s happy. Is it him or the clubs not wanting their players being ruined in a shit team/plan? None of them have improved here! They have gone to Rotherham and Preston not Barcelona
|
|
|
Post by Biblical on Jan 21, 2023 8:46:56 GMT
Everyone can have an opinion but what you’re saying is just that rather than some provable fact. I trust the manager when he says he has some players he didn’t want and needs to make room, and Clarke he had no option on. You are right in that I'm speculating and what I'm saying is an opinion rather a fact the question is whether what I'm saying is consistent with what's happened. If the departures were part of a masterplan the gap between players leaving and a replacement coming in would be a matter of days at most. The idea put forward by some that we need to get rid before we can bring in doesn't stack up for loanees because any savings aren't significant and as there's no transfer fee it doesn't improve who we can bring in as a replacement one iota. That argument only makes sense for perms and I agree that the plan probably includes having to sell Souttar before we can bring in any players who might cost a fee. However having to sell your best players is hardly the sign of a club in charge of its own destiny and watching players disappearing around you is not going to encourage others to stay. Players are walking, others are clearly in the shop window and others must know by now they don't have a future in a Neil team even if they make it past the January deadline. The squad is not in a good place and that sort of atmosphere influences the decisions players make. I'm not anti Neil per se - he's got a good track record and if given the chance to shape the squad the way he wants it (which will take 2 summer windows at least) he could do well here. However that does not mean I have to believe he's in full control of the current situation - for me he clearly isn't. If others choose to believe he is that's fine - but I really think that's just wishful thinking and doesn't really explain what's actually happening. Neil gave a perfectly plausible explanation as to why players have left without replacements coming in straight away. It also doesn’t really make sense for him to openly admit Clarke going was out of his control and that the others were his decision to justify that he’s in control, if he isn’t. On top of that Fosu and Delap had barely featured for us for weeks leading up to their departure so they clearly weren’t in his plans. It’s also clear that we’ve had to shift some players before others can be bought in. We’re probably looking at loanees because we haven’t got money to spend (unless Souttar goes) so it absolutely makes sense that he’s decided to free up some loan spaces. There’s no real reason to not believe Neil’s version of events. It’s way more of a stretch for you to believe what you’re espousing than it is to take what Neil has said at face value.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 21, 2023 9:22:40 GMT
Tom Edwards will probably be on a good wage and has a contract until 2024. I understood he was on a extremely low wage for a Stoke footballer because he was keen to prove himself here. Sounds a bit fanciful being as he was with us in the Premier League and must have been on a very good contract. I don’t think any player would voluntarily swap that for an extremely low wage. Reduced from Premier League money but still pre covid championship money.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Jan 21, 2023 9:28:12 GMT
I understood he was on a extremely low wage for a Stoke footballer because he was keen to prove himself here. Sounds a bit fanciful being as he was with us in the Premier League and must have been on a very good contract. I don’t think any player would voluntarily swap that for an extremely low wage. Reduced from Premier League money but still pre covid championship money. He wasn't on a pl contract His last contract was when Jones was manager
|
|
tony10
Youth Player
Posts: 427
|
Post by tony10 on Jan 21, 2023 9:30:11 GMT
You are right in that I'm speculating and what I'm saying is an opinion rather a fact the question is whether what I'm saying is consistent with what's happened. If the departures were part of a masterplan the gap between players leaving and a replacement coming in would be a matter of days at most. The idea put forward by some that we need to get rid before we can bring in doesn't stack up for loanees because any savings aren't significant and as there's no transfer fee it doesn't improve who we can bring in as a replacement one iota. That argument only makes sense for perms and I agree that the plan probably includes having to sell Souttar before we can bring in any players who might cost a fee. However having to sell your best players is hardly the sign of a club in charge of its own destiny and watching players disappearing around you is not going to encourage others to stay. Players are walking, others are clearly in the shop window and others must know by now they don't have a future in a Neil team even if they make it past the January deadline. The squad is not in a good place and that sort of atmosphere influences the decisions players make. I'm not anti Neil per se - he's got a good track record and if given the chance to shape the squad the way he wants it (which will take 2 summer windows at least) he could do well here. However that does not mean I have to believe he's in full control of the current situation - for me he clearly isn't. If others choose to believe he is that's fine - but I really think that's just wishful thinking and doesn't really explain what's actually happening. Neil gave a perfectly plausible explanation as to why players have left without replacements coming in straight away. It also doesn’t really make sense for him to openly admit Clarke going was out of his control and that the others were his decision to justify that he’s in control, if he isn’t. On top of that Fosu and Delap had barely featured for us for weeks leading up to their departure so they clearly weren’t in his plans. It’s also clear that we’ve had to shift some players before others can be bought in. We’re probably looking at loanees because we haven’t got money to spend (unless Souttar goes) so it absolutely makes sense that he’s decided to free up some loan spaces. There’s no real reason to not believe Neil’s version of events. It’s way more of a stretch for you to believe what you’re espousing than it is to take what Neil has said at face value. 👏👏👏👍
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 21, 2023 9:33:30 GMT
You are right in that I'm speculating and what I'm saying is an opinion rather a fact the question is whether what I'm saying is consistent with what's happened. If the departures were part of a masterplan the gap between players leaving and a replacement coming in would be a matter of days at most. The idea put forward by some that we need to get rid before we can bring in doesn't stack up for loanees because any savings aren't significant and as there's no transfer fee it doesn't improve who we can bring in as a replacement one iota. That argument only makes sense for perms and I agree that the plan probably includes having to sell Souttar before we can bring in any players who might cost a fee. However having to sell your best players is hardly the sign of a club in charge of its own destiny and watching players disappearing around you is not going to encourage others to stay. Players are walking, others are clearly in the shop window and others must know by now they don't have a future in a Neil team even if they make it past the January deadline. The squad is not in a good place and that sort of atmosphere influences the decisions players make. I'm not anti Neil per se - he's got a good track record and if given the chance to shape the squad the way he wants it (which will take 2 summer windows at least) he could do well here. However that does not mean I have to believe he's in full control of the current situation - for me he clearly isn't. If others choose to believe he is that's fine - but I really think that's just wishful thinking and doesn't really explain what's actually happening. Neil gave a perfectly plausible explanation as to why players have left without replacements coming in straight away. It also doesn’t really make sense for him to openly admit Clarke going was out of his control and that the others were his decision to justify that he’s in control, if he isn’t. On top of that Fosu and Delap had barely featured for us for weeks leading up to their departure so they clearly weren’t in his plans. It’s also clear that we’ve had to shift some players before others can be bought in. We’re probably looking at loanees because we haven’t got money to spend (unless Souttar goes) so it absolutely makes sense that he’s decided to free up some loan spaces. There’s no real reason to not believe Neil’s version of events. It’s way more of a stretch for you to believe what you’re espousing than it is to take what Neil has said at face value. Bang on common sense. it’s better to think about the rest of the season than rushing players in for one game.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 21, 2023 9:37:23 GMT
Sounds a bit fanciful being as he was with us in the Premier League and must have been on a very good contract. I don’t think any player would voluntarily swap that for an extremely low wage. Reduced from Premier League money but still pre covid championship money. He wasn't on a pl contract His last contract was when Jones was manager He signed a good contract in the PL he wasn’t on age group players wages anymore. So he wouldn’t have signed a contract for extremely low wages in the championship. He wasn’t out of contract or even close to it at any point. Reduced maybe extremely low not a chance.
|
|
|
Post by keasie1863 on Jan 21, 2023 9:43:34 GMT
The fact that Neil said Clarke was out of his hands,says everything about where we are with FFP! A club like ours with the owners wealth can't pay 1m for a player and Ipswich can.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 21, 2023 9:49:09 GMT
The fact that Neil said Clarke was out of his hands,says everything about where we are with FFP! A club like ours with the owners wealth can't pay 1m for a player and Ipswich can. I wouldn’t want us paying 250k for him
|
|
|
Post by SuperRickyFuller on Jan 21, 2023 9:50:11 GMT
The fact that Neil said Clarke was out of his hands,says everything about where we are with FFP! A club like ours with the owners wealth can't pay 1m for a player and Ipswich can. Not really. It was out of our control because Clarke wasn't our player. Arsenal recalled him and sold him because, I assume, they'd seen enough to know that he'd never be good enough for them. Even if FFP wasn't a thing, I wouldn't be happy with us spending £1m for Clarke anyway.
|
|
|
Post by BlurtonRed on Jan 21, 2023 10:04:24 GMT
The fact that Neil said Clarke was out of his hands,says everything about where we are with FFP! A club like ours with the owners wealth can't pay 1m for a player and Ipswich can. Not really. It was out of our control because Clarke wasn't our player. Arsenal recalled him and sold him because, I assume, they'd seen enough to know that he'd never be good enough for them. Even if FFP wasn't a thing, I wouldn't be happy with us spending £1m for Clarke anyway. Exactly how I see it. Arsenal had an enquiry about Clarke from his own town club they asked Clarke if he fancied a permanent move back home and he said yes!!! Arsenal has the parent club really had all the power. I would imagine there was always an option for them to review the deal in Jan
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2023 10:17:51 GMT
Grant is absolute shite. Suppose he'll fit in with the rest of the squad He isn't though is he? Yes, he's fucking shit. If he's the answer, god knows what the question is. Jesus.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 21, 2023 10:25:58 GMT
At no point did I say the loans had to get together. They didn't have to. They just had to look at the league position, the way they the team is performing and what was going on around them to realise they were were in a club in free fall and got out before it had be an adverse career. And their parent clubs helped bail them out because it wasn't helping their development or their resale value. The manager may well have a plan. The thing is a plan doesn't stop shit happening and no matter how many times a manager says it's all going to plan anybody with half a brain and consequently zero faith in any manager knows they are talking through their arse in a desperate attempt to convince people they are in control whereas in reality it's all gone tits up. I'm not desperate to see Stoke doing something wrong. I don't have to be - it's bleeding obvious they are. As the loaners have gone to Ipswich, Preston and Rotherham, it appears they are not very good and Neil wanted better. Clarke offers no creativity and is an unpredictable defender, Fosu has moments but doesn’t really have a position, and Delap has potential but needs time we don’t have. Add in Bursik and the chances are, especially with cash if we sell, we can improve in all 4 positions. Other than wishful thinking what makes you believe we will get better players in now than we did in the summer? We are fishing in exactly the same pool as we were in the summer but all the good loanees are at other clubs and the ones proving themselves will be staying there. The only ones available in January are the ones that weren't good enough to attract interest in the summer, aren't cutting it at the club they were loaned to or (like Delap, Fosu and Clarke) are bailing because there's issue at the club they are andvstaying won't enhance their career. And given the choice are any half decent loanees going to choose a team threatened by relegation or one with a chance of the playoffs or promotion? Is Neil a gifted hypnotist or just planning a few kidnappings? Delap was literally the most sought after loanee of the summer and widely acknowledged as pretty much the best striker in his age group. Blandly saying we can do better in the January window is not only wrong, it's delusional. The fact that players have moved on to Ipswich, Preston an Rotherham says more about our standing among players of that age group - do you you actually believe at this moment in time Neil and Stoke City are seen as giants of the game bestowing blessings on young players careers? Or do we look like relegation fodder with an unstable squad and an awful place to be to focus on your career?
|
|
|
Post by crouchbot on Jan 21, 2023 10:32:23 GMT
Yes, he's fucking shit. If he's the answer, god knows what the question is. Jesus. If we were to bring in Dykes and Grant I’d hope we’d move to a 433 with Dykes as the focal point and then Grant/Brown/Campbell playing off him as wide forwards. That alone makes us a lot better in my opinion. Especially if we can sign a keeper, a CB and a DM on top of that. Seems a lot to ask for, but clearly we’re going to be busy.
|
|
|
Post by crouchbot on Jan 21, 2023 10:34:03 GMT
Grant also scored 18 times for a struggling WBA side last season. So he’s not shit.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 21, 2023 10:37:42 GMT
As the loaners have gone to Ipswich, Preston and Rotherham, it appears they are not very good and Neil wanted better. Clarke offers no creativity and is an unpredictable defender, Fosu has moments but doesn’t really have a position, and Delap has potential but needs time we don’t have. Add in Bursik and the chances are, especially with cash if we sell, we can improve in all 4 positions. Other than wishful thinking what makes you believe we will get better players in now than we did in the summer? We are fishing in exactly the same pool as we were in the summer but all the good loanees are at other clubs and the ones proving themselves will be staying there. The only ones available in January are the ones that weren't good enough to attract interest in the summer, aren't cutting it at the club they were loaned to or (like Delap, Fosu and Clarke) are bailing because there's issue at the club they are andvstaying won't enhance their career. And given the choice are any half decent loanees going to choose a team threatened by relegation or one with a chance of the playoffs or promotion? Is Neil a gifted hypnotist or just planning a few kidnappings? Delap was literally the most sought after loanee of the summer and widely acknowledged as pretty much the best striker in his age group. Blandly saying we can do better in the January window is not only wrong, it's delusional. The fact that players have moved on to Ipswich, Preston an Rotherham says more about our standing among players of that age group - do you you actually believe at this moment in time Neil and Stoke City are seen as giants of the game bestowing blessings on young players careers? Or do we look like relegation fodder with an unstable squad and an awful place to be to focus on your career? Do they need to be better players or better suited to what we need? It was widely accepted we needed a target man type striker in the Summer and we went out and got two forwards for a shit ton of money and guess what neither were of the type that had already been identified even by the bloke who was signing them that we needed. It wasn’t lack of funds it wasn’t lack of quality or perceived quality it was going shopping for a hammer and buying a screwdriver to do the job. Let’s not even get onto the defence full of old men and lumbering giants to play 3 at the back. The Summer was one of sheer fuckwittery from the club and it’s then manager.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Jan 21, 2023 10:44:57 GMT
How many do we see coming in before it closes, with 5 having left and possibly more still going to depart, I would think a minimum of 4?. I'm losing track, Bursik, Fosu, Delap, Clarke, who is the 5th ?
|
|
|
Post by gingerninja on Jan 21, 2023 10:47:18 GMT
Yes sorry 4, fully expect Kilkenny to leave as well.
|
|
|
Post by keasie1863 on Jan 21, 2023 10:51:08 GMT
The fact that Neil said Clarke was out of his hands,says everything about where we are with FFP! A club like ours with the owners wealth can't pay 1m for a player and Ipswich can. Not really. It was out of our control because Clarke wasn't our player. Arsenal recalled him and sold him because, I assume, they'd seen enough to know that he'd never be good enough for them. Even if FFP wasn't a thing, I wouldn't be happy with us spending £1m for Clarke anyway. It was out of his control because we couldn't pay the 1m due to ffp,arsenal just wanted sell him ,Neil would of signed him as he rated him and didn't want to let him go.
|
|
|
Post by gaznandi on Jan 21, 2023 10:52:01 GMT
Yes sorry 4, fully expect Kilkenny to leave as well. Flint also looks very likely so that will be six, then there's Souttar of course.....
|
|
|
Post by bgreen13 on Jan 21, 2023 10:52:26 GMT
Yes, he's fucking shit. If he's the answer, god knows what the question is. Jesus. Neah.
|
|
|
Post by SuperRickyFuller on Jan 21, 2023 10:55:20 GMT
Not really. It was out of our control because Clarke wasn't our player. Arsenal recalled him and sold him because, I assume, they'd seen enough to know that he'd never be good enough for them. Even if FFP wasn't a thing, I wouldn't be happy with us spending £1m for Clarke anyway. It was out of his control because we couldn't pay the 1m due to ffp,arsenal just wanted sell him ,Neil would of signed him as he rated him and didn't want to let him go. The only thing AN said was that he would've liked to have kept him. That doesn't necessarily mean he would've wanted to sign him permanently, nor does it mean he would've been happy to spend £1m on him either.
|
|
|
Post by bagnallboothen on Jan 21, 2023 10:57:51 GMT
It's going to be a challenging 10 days.
If you were a championship club why would you want to loan us anyone that may help keep us up.
Since we come down we've nicked 3 managers off other clubs, thrown money round like it's gone out of fashion and somehow avoided FFP sanctions.
I'd be doing anything I could to see the back of us if I was one of the 23 clubs and we're relying on them to keep us up.
|
|
|
Post by a on Jan 21, 2023 11:06:24 GMT
I'm fine with Grant if we can afford him, but I still find it frustrating our scouting network seems so limited. When's the last time we signed anyone from outside of the top three English divisions? That’s a fair shout, but I fear that signings like Badou, Imbula, Arismendi etc will put the brakes on overseas players. We absolutely should be looking at France, Germany and Holland. Brighton and Brentford are miles ahead of us in terms of scouting.
|
|