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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2023 11:10:45 GMT
It's going to be a challenging 10 days. If you were a championship club why would you want to loan us anyone that may help keep us up. Since we come down we've nicked 3 managers off other clubs, thrown money round like it's gone out of fashion and somehow avoided FFP sanctions. I'd be doing anything I could to see the back of us if I was one of the 23 clubs and we're relying on them to keep us up. I think it may be loans with agreed price to buy in summer when we're in a better position with ffp. Teams in this league can't afford to let their better players run their contracts down so this kind of deal could suit both parties. Money still talks and we have tonnes of it. There must be clever ways to allow us to spend a bit of it. Wasn't Afobe's loan to Wolves something akin to this when after having to buy him they immediately palmed him off to us?
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 21, 2023 11:18:44 GMT
By the time the window closes it will be interesting to see the quality and age of players brought in. Loans and short contracts to get us to the summer window for a significant rebuild?
My concern would be players brought in on a 12/18 months contract (i.e Flint)who will not provide the foundations to really progress and then we find ourselves in the same position of ins/outs again. Thus creating a long slow slog for real improvement or intent for promotion
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Post by gaznandi on Jan 21, 2023 11:21:11 GMT
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Post by independent on Jan 21, 2023 11:25:04 GMT
It's going to be a challenging 10 days. If you were a championship club why would you want to loan us anyone that may help keep us up. Since we come down we've nicked 3 managers off other clubs, thrown money round like it's gone out of fashion and somehow avoided FFP sanctions. I'd be doing anything I could to see the back of us if I was one of the 23 clubs and we're relying on them to keep us up. No,we're not relying on anyone else to keep us up. It is in our own hands. By the start of March we may be, but I still don't see any reason why we can't stay up. I imagine all our players realise that they are playing for their next contract (either here or elsewhere) as we have so many out of contract in June. It won't be lack of effort that will do for us.
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Post by bagnallboothen on Jan 21, 2023 11:26:06 GMT
It's going to be a challenging 10 days. If you were a championship club why would you want to loan us anyone that may help keep us up. Since we come down we've nicked 3 managers off other clubs, thrown money round like it's gone out of fashion and somehow avoided FFP sanctions. I'd be doing anything I could to see the back of us if I was one of the 23 clubs and we're relying on them to keep us up. I think it may be loans with agreed price to buy in summer when we're in a better position with ffp. Teams in this league can't afford to let their better players run their contracts down so this kind of deal could suit both parties. Money still talks and we have tonnes of it. There must be clever ways to allow us to spend a bit of it. Wasn't Afobe's loan to Wolves something akin to this when after having to buy him they immediately palmed him off to us? Issue being since we signed Afobe we've lost close to £200m. I don't see where this better position for FFP comments are coming from, we stand to lose another £26m and you're allowed to lose 39m over 3 seasons. Half the squad from Jan 1st will have been sent back or released but I don't think there will be much if any cash available for transfer fees.
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Post by independent on Jan 21, 2023 11:50:02 GMT
We should really be relying on the players that we have to keep us up, and if we can get a few in ,then all the better. The Championship is much weaker than it has been for years and we weren't in any trouble since we came down except under Jones.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 21, 2023 11:56:16 GMT
Not really. It was out of our control because Clarke wasn't our player. Arsenal recalled him and sold him because, I assume, they'd seen enough to know that he'd never be good enough for them. Even if FFP wasn't a thing, I wouldn't be happy with us spending £1m for Clarke anyway. It was out of his control because we couldn't pay the 1m due to ffp,arsenal just wanted sell him ,Neil would of signed him as he rated him and didn't want to let him go. At which point he should have been sacked as should MON the instant he mentioned signing Dwight Gayle.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 21, 2023 12:05:36 GMT
You are right in that I'm speculating and what I'm saying is an opinion rather a fact the question is whether what I'm saying is consistent with what's happened. If the departures were part of a masterplan the gap between players leaving and a replacement coming in would be a matter of days at most. The idea put forward by some that we need to get rid before we can bring in doesn't stack up for loanees because any savings aren't significant and as there's no transfer fee it doesn't improve who we can bring in as a replacement one iota. That argument only makes sense for perms and I agree that the plan probably includes having to sell Souttar before we can bring in any players who might cost a fee. However having to sell your best players is hardly the sign of a club in charge of its own destiny and watching players disappearing around you is not going to encourage others to stay. Players are walking, others are clearly in the shop window and others must know by now they don't have a future in a Neil team even if they make it past the January deadline. The squad is not in a good place and that sort of atmosphere influences the decisions players make. I'm not anti Neil per se - he's got a good track record and if given the chance to shape the squad the way he wants it (which will take 2 summer windows at least) he could do well here. However that does not mean I have to believe he's in full control of the current situation - for me he clearly isn't. If others choose to believe he is that's fine - but I really think that's just wishful thinking and doesn't really explain what's actually happening. Neil gave a perfectly plausible explanation as to why players have left without replacements coming in straight away. It also doesn’t really make sense for him to openly admit Clarke going was out of his control and that the others were his decision to justify that he’s in control, if he isn’t. On top of that Fosu and Delap had barely featured for us for weeks leading up to their departure so they clearly weren’t in his plans. It’s also clear that we’ve had to shift some players before others can be bought in. We’re probably looking at loanees because we haven’t got money to spend (unless Souttar goes) so it absolutely makes sense that he’s decided to free up some loan spaces. There’s no real reason to not believe Neil’s version of events. It’s way more of a stretch for you to believe what you’re espousing than it is to take what Neil has said at face value. We don't have to shift loanees in order to bring in other loanees. The 5 loanee limit is the match day squad not the squad as a whole and if we are in control of what's happening the ideal would be to have a loanee sign up at the same time as one departs. At the very least you'd expect a replacement in days. Neil isn't going to say things are going tits up - he's bound to give it a spin. I don't even blame him for the fact it is going to tits up - all managers claim they are in control when in reality shit just happens and they are anything but in control. The reason things are going wrong is because Neil has a completely different approach to MoN, this squad is completely wrong for how he wants to play and the timing of his appointment couldn't have been worse. I'm not anti-Neil and I don't have a problem if we decide to keep him providing we give him a couple of seasons to build his own squad. That doesn't mean I have to pretend everything is rosey and that Neil's cunning masterplan is going exactly as planned. We are currently in a tail spin. It doesn't mean the club is going to fly off the track and Neil may well regain control and steer us to victory. Thing is if I see a tail spin I'll call it out as a tail spin, not try to claim it's a carefully planned manoeuvre.
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Post by Biblical on Jan 21, 2023 12:11:22 GMT
Neil gave a perfectly plausible explanation as to why players have left without replacements coming in straight away. It also doesn’t really make sense for him to openly admit Clarke going was out of his control and that the others were his decision to justify that he’s in control, if he isn’t. On top of that Fosu and Delap had barely featured for us for weeks leading up to their departure so they clearly weren’t in his plans. It’s also clear that we’ve had to shift some players before others can be bought in. We’re probably looking at loanees because we haven’t got money to spend (unless Souttar goes) so it absolutely makes sense that he’s decided to free up some loan spaces. There’s no real reason to not believe Neil’s version of events. It’s way more of a stretch for you to believe what you’re espousing than it is to take what Neil has said at face value. We don't have to shift loanees in order to bring in other loanees. The 5 loanee limit is the match day squad not the squad as a whole and if we are in control of what's happening the ideal would be to have a loanee sign up at the same time as one departs. At the very least you'd expect a replacement in days. Neil isn't going to say things are going tits up - he's bound to give it a spin. I don't even blame him for the fact it is going to tits up - all managers claim they are in control when in reality shit just happens and they are anything but in control. The reason things are going wrong is because Neil has a completely different approach to MoN, this squad is completely wrong for how he wants to play and the timing of his appointment couldn't have been worse. I'm not anti-Neil and I don't have a problem if we decide to keep him providing we give him a couple of seasons to build his own squad. That doesn't mean I have to pretend everything is rosey and that Neil's cunning masterplan is going exactly as planned. We are currently in a tail spin. It doesn't mean the club is going to fly off the track and Neil may well regain control and steer us to victory. Thing is if I see a tail spin I'll call it out as a tail spin, not try to claim it's a carefully planned manoeuvre. Of course you have to shift loanees to get more in. Otherwise you’re paying people for nothing to sit in the stand on a match day. Which Neil explained clearly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2023 12:16:26 GMT
I think it may be loans with agreed price to buy in summer when we're in a better position with ffp. Teams in this league can't afford to let their better players run their contracts down so this kind of deal could suit both parties. Money still talks and we have tonnes of it. There must be clever ways to allow us to spend a bit of it. Wasn't Afobe's loan to Wolves something akin to this when after having to buy him they immediately palmed him off to us? Issue being since we signed Afobe we've lost close to £200m. I don't see where this better position for FFP comments are coming from, we stand to lose another £26m and you're allowed to lose 39m over 3 seasons. Half the squad from Jan 1st will have been sent back or released but I don't think there will be much if any cash available for transfer fees. Where is this £26 million figure from out of interest? Even if correct when we sell Souttar this or next window that figure will look much more healthy. I'm no financial expert but it's the club and Alex Neil who are saying we'll be in a better position come the summer.
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Post by bagnallboothen on Jan 21, 2023 12:19:32 GMT
Issue being since we signed Afobe we've lost close to £200m. I don't see where this better position for FFP comments are coming from, we stand to lose another £26m and you're allowed to lose 39m over 3 seasons. Half the squad from Jan 1st will have been sent back or released but I don't think there will be much if any cash available for transfer fees. Where is this £26 million figure from out of interest? Even if correct when we sell Souttar this or next window that figure will look much more healthy. I'm no financial expert but it's the club and Alex Neil who are saying we'll be in a better position come the summer. bet365 accounts that were out a couple of weeks ago had a 26m loss attributed to the football club.
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Post by Timmy on Jan 21, 2023 12:21:07 GMT
Where is this £26 million figure from out of interest? Even if correct when we sell Souttar this or next window that figure will look much more healthy. I'm no financial expert but it's the club and Alex Neil who are saying we'll be in a better position come the summer. bet365 accounts that were out a couple of weeks ago had a 26m loss attributed to the football club. Doesn't that just mean a 26m investment into the club, for example infrastructure improvements? I haven't had a look at it myself 😂
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Post by bagnallboothen on Jan 21, 2023 12:24:51 GMT
bet365 accounts that were out a couple of weeks ago had a 26m loss attributed to the football club. Doesn't that just mean a 26m investment into the club, for example infrastructure improvements? I haven't had a look at it myself 😂 Some of it might be, but I'm not sure a few red seats cost 26m. Ricardo's and all the refurb will be in this seasons accounts I'd imagine and dont count to FFP. Any January Souttar sale would not impact last seasons losses.
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Post by scfcstevie on Jan 21, 2023 12:27:41 GMT
Just seen on the sky sports website Brit Asombalonga is in talks with 2 championship clubs with a view a loan deal. Hopefully we're not one of them
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Post by nott1 on Jan 21, 2023 12:35:06 GMT
People talking about getting a few players in. Where's the evidence we are after ANYBODY? I think we are being hoodwinked and the liklehood is we'll be lucky to get ONE! If there are incomers in the pipeline the management need to get their fingers out just over a week to the window closing!
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Post by keasie1863 on Jan 21, 2023 12:36:48 GMT
It was out of his control because we couldn't pay the 1m due to ffp,arsenal just wanted sell him ,Neil would of signed him as he rated him and didn't want to let him go. The only thing AN said was that he would've liked to have kept him. That doesn't necessarily mean he would've wanted to sign him permanently, nor does it mean he would've been happy to spend £1m on him either. Ok 👌
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 21, 2023 12:37:38 GMT
Not really. It was out of our control because Clarke wasn't our player. Arsenal recalled him and sold him because, I assume, they'd seen enough to know that he'd never be good enough for them. Even if FFP wasn't a thing, I wouldn't be happy with us spending £1m for Clarke anyway. It was out of his control because we couldn't pay the 1m due to ffp,arsenal just wanted sell him ,Neil would of signed him as he rated him and didn't want to let him go. Neil rated him so highly he left him out last Saturday as he felt our defence was stronger with Wilmott, Jagielka and Souttar all out of position than playing Clarke at RWB. Hardly someone he would want to pay £1m for.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2023 12:38:55 GMT
Where is this £26 million figure from out of interest? Even if correct when we sell Souttar this or next window that figure will look much more healthy. I'm no financial expert but it's the club and Alex Neil who are saying we'll be in a better position come the summer. bet365 accounts that were out a couple of weeks ago had a 26m loss attributed to the football club. Someone explained that those figures were misleading and were not the final accounts re ffp. As I said before I'm no accountant I'm just going off what the club has been saying.
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Post by nott1 on Jan 21, 2023 12:40:35 GMT
Just seen on the sky sports website Brit Asombalonga is in talks with 2 championship clubs with a view a loan deal. Hopefully we're not one of them Has been decent (Forest) and at least he's a striker. Current worth 3m euros. Can't be worse than our current crop surely. Hat on.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 21, 2023 12:44:07 GMT
Just seen on the sky sports website Brit Asombalonga is in talks with 2 championship clubs with a view a loan deal. Hopefully we're not one of them Has been decent (Forest) and at least he's a striker. Current worth 3m euros. Can't be worse than our current crop surely. Hat on. Surely we should be considering “a lot better” not “Can’t be worse”
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 21, 2023 12:44:41 GMT
Where is this £26 million figure from out of interest? Even if correct when we sell Souttar this or next window that figure will look much more healthy. I'm no financial expert but it's the club and Alex Neil who are saying we'll be in a better position come the summer. bet365 accounts that were out a couple of weeks ago had a 26m loss attributed to the football club. Doesn’t mean anything as there are timing differences between Bet365 accounts and Stoke City. The reports you refer to relate to 2021/22. If we had lost £26m last season we would have already been fined and lost 12 points. The key fact for this season is 2018/19 drops out of the 3 year calculation. Before FFP adjustments, we lost £15m in that season, so, assuming we were compliant at the end of 2021/22, we can lose £15m pre adjustments this season. Next season the Covid era drops out which is why we will be in much better shape.
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Post by keasie1863 on Jan 21, 2023 12:46:18 GMT
It was out of his control because we couldn't pay the 1m due to ffp,arsenal just wanted sell him ,Neil would of signed him as he rated him and didn't want to let him go. Neil rated him so highly he left him out last Saturday as he felt our defence was stronger with Wilmott, Jagielka and Souttar all out of position than playing Clarke at RWB. Hardly someone he would want to pay £1m for. 👍
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Post by nott1 on Jan 21, 2023 12:48:07 GMT
Has been decent (Forest) and at least he's a striker. Current worth 3m euros. Can't be worse than our current crop surely. Hat on. Surely we should be considering “a lot better” not “Can’t be worse” No evidence that we are but yes we should.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 21, 2023 13:15:37 GMT
The fact that Neil said Clarke was out of his hands,says everything about where we are with FFP! A club like ours with the owners wealth can't pay 1m for a player and Ipswich can. Can't or wouldn't? I haven't seen anything to make me think he's worth £1 million. If Ipswich do and we don't then in that sense it is not in our hands if Arsenal also think he's not worth a million they are going to recall to sell.
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Post by etebojan on Jan 21, 2023 15:47:22 GMT
Thought he was called back to Everton to play, would be good for Stoke
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Post by clarkeda on Jan 21, 2023 16:20:35 GMT
Thought he was called back to Everton to play, would be good for Stoke Sunderland are the only club who can loan him as he’s played for Everton and Sunderland this season.
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Post by etebojan on Jan 21, 2023 16:53:45 GMT
Thought he was called back to Everton to play, would be good for Stoke Sunderland are the only club who can loan him as he’s played for Everton and Sunderland this season. Argh of course, thanks
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 21, 2023 16:58:21 GMT
Sunderland are the only club who can loan him as he’s played for Everton and Sunderland this season. Argh of course, thanks Could help if we’re in for Stewart.
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Post by bgreen13 on Jan 21, 2023 17:01:55 GMT
Squads looking a bit threadbare.
Hopefully 4 or 5 key players in please.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 21, 2023 17:04:59 GMT
Great today but definitely need to strengthen still. Priorities for me
GK LCB DM Target man
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