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Post by foster on Jun 1, 2023 18:19:20 GMT
To be fair, it is a crap analogy mate. Climate change, unlike a footy teams results, is an important issue. It's not an every Tom, Dick or Harry grievance. The protesters could also do a lot worse than just sitting on a road. Although I admit that some even see that as an act of terrorism. You've clearly missed the point I was making, although I did try and walk you through it. Thankfully, it appears that some other posters have understood it. I got the point. It wasn't really relevant. I just wanted to highlight the shit analogy you made. You even said it was daft so it seems weird that you're getting all defensive about it now.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 1, 2023 18:22:36 GMT
You've clearly missed the point I was making, although I did try and walk you through it. Thankfully, it appears that some other posters have understood it. I got the point. I just wanted to highlight the shit analogy you made. You even said it was daft so it seems weird that you're getting all defensive about it now. No, you didn't get the point, that is abundantly clear. And I'm not getting defensive about it lol! 🙄
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 1, 2023 18:24:28 GMT
Why are all the eco dorks, all pissing their pants over some terminology on here. Who cares what Tossi says, stick to the topic. His post, 'violence' is nothing more than a reply on this board. Nothing to get all worked up over. Ohh bugger off foster you orrible old woke bastard 🤗
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 1, 2023 18:26:24 GMT
Just Stop Oil might indeed have a legitimate cause to protest about but that then doesn't mean that that gives them the right to protest however they like, whenever they like. If we're going to live in a functioning and democratic society, we can't just allow anybody who believes they have just claim to protest, to do so whenever it suits them, we'd have anarchy. I find the Just Stop Oil protesters to be particularly arrogant in their belief, that they are somehow special and have more rights than other people who have a cause that they believe in. The right to protest on the streets, is a right that we all have but it should be done in consultation with the local authorities and the police, so that right can be facilitated accordingly. We simply can't have every Tom, Dick and Harry with a grievance deciding to sit in the middle of our highways whenever they feel like it. You might accuse me of making a daft analogy here but I'm doing it to make a specific point. For many people, how their football team is doing is more important TO THEM than the issue of climate change but we'd all be up in arms if football supporters of a particular club decided to sit in the middle of the road, everytime they wanted a change of manager. The point being, that there isn't a hierarchy of causes that means that one has a more legitimate right to protest than another but Just Stop Oil seem to think there is and this somehow legitimises their form of protest. It doesn't. Top post Paul.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 1, 2023 18:28:47 GMT
Why are all the eco dorks, all pissing their pants over some terminology on here. Who cares what Tossi says, stick to the topic. His post, 'violence' is nothing more than a reply on this board. Nothing to get all worked up over. Ohh bugger off foster you orrible old woke bastard 🤗 Another self entitled dork🤣 only kidding Fozzy
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Post by foster on Jun 1, 2023 18:36:45 GMT
I got the point. I just wanted to highlight the shit analogy you made. You even said it was daft so it seems weird that you're getting all defensive about it now. No, you didn't get the point, that is abundantly clear. And I'm not getting defensive about it lol! 🙄 Different people have different priorities. Great point Einstein.
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Post by foster on Jun 1, 2023 18:39:00 GMT
Ohh bugger off foster you orrible old woke bastard 🤗 Another self entitled dork🤣 only kidding Fozzy I am a dork when it comes to climate change mate. Not so much these oil dweebs, but anything to do with self sustainability and not ruining the planet.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 1, 2023 18:53:57 GMT
No, you didn't get the point, that is abundantly clear. And I'm not getting defensive about it lol! 🙄 Different people have different priorities. Great point Einstein.
Yep you certainly missed it.
As you appear to be the only one who has, I'll try and walk you through it again.
Not you Fozzy, nor me, nor anyone, gets to decide which cause takes priority when it comes to protest.
You are being just as arrogant as the Just Stop Oil protesters in claiming that you can.
I could have used a myriad of different analogies to make the point but if I had used I dunno (say), Black Lives Matter or CND or Windrush, the point wouldn't have been as stark.
If a cause matters to a person or persons, be it, the closure of a local bus route, the opening of a new McDonalds, or the desire to see Wispa chocolate bars back on the shelves, we all have an equal right to protest on the streets in support of those causes.
What we don't have, is the right to protest on the streets at anytime and in any place we feel like it.
Just imagine what society we would be living in, if everybody who felt they had a legitimate cause to do so, did do so.
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Post by foster on Jun 1, 2023 18:56:16 GMT
Different people have different priorities. Great point Einstein. Yep you certainly missed it. As you appear to be the only one who has, I'll try and walk you through it again. Not you Fozzy, nor me, nor anyone, gets to decide which cause takes priority when it comes to protest. You are being just as arrogant as the Just Stop Oil protesters in claiming that you can. I could have used a myriad of different analogies to make the point but if I had used I dunno (say), Black Lives Matter or CND or Windrush, the point wouldn't have been as stark. If a cause matters to a person or persons, be it, the closure of a local bus route, the opening of a new McDonalds, or the desire to see Wispa chocolate bars back on the shelves, we all have an equal right to protest on the streets in support of those causes. What we don't have, is the right to protest on the streets at anytime and in any place we feel like it. Just imagine what society we would be living in, if everybody who felt they had a legitimate cause to do so, did do so.
OK Einstein
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Post by thevoid on Jun 1, 2023 19:26:09 GMT
Different people have different priorities. Great point Einstein.
Yep you certainly missed it.
As you appear to be the only one who has, I'll try and walk you through it again.
Not you Fozzy, nor me, nor anyone, gets to decide which cause takes priority when it comes to protest.
You are being just as arrogant as the Just Stop Oil protesters in claiming that you can.
I could have used a myriad of different analogies to make the point but if I had used I dunno (say), Black Lives Matter or CND or Windrush, the point wouldn't have been as stark.
If a cause matters to a person or persons, be it, the closure of a local bus route, the opening of a new McDonalds, or the desire to see Wispa chocolate bars back on the shelves, we all have an equal right to protest on the streets in support of those causes.
What we don't have, is the right to protest on the streets at anytime and in any place we feel like it.
Just imagine what society we would be living in, if everybody who felt they had a legitimate cause to do so, did do so.
What's this about Wispa bars?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 1, 2023 19:29:52 GMT
Yep you certainly missed it.
As you appear to be the only one who has, I'll try and walk you through it again.
Not you Fozzy, nor me, nor anyone, gets to decide which cause takes priority when it comes to protest.
You are being just as arrogant as the Just Stop Oil protesters in claiming that you can.
I could have used a myriad of different analogies to make the point but if I had used I dunno (say), Black Lives Matter or CND or Windrush, the point wouldn't have been as stark.
If a cause matters to a person or persons, be it, the closure of a local bus route, the opening of a new McDonalds, or the desire to see Wispa chocolate bars back on the shelves, we all have an equal right to protest on the streets in support of those causes.
What we don't have, is the right to protest on the streets at anytime and in any place we feel like it.
Just imagine what society we would be living in, if everybody who felt they had a legitimate cause to do so, did do so.
What's this about Wispa bars? Haven't been on the shelves of our local corner shop for a couple of years now ... absolute disgrace! 😠
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Post by henry on Jun 1, 2023 19:36:48 GMT
What's this about Wispa bars? Haven't been on the shelves of our local corner shop for a couple of years now ... absolute disgrace! 😠 Have you thought about making a protest ? Sitting in the roads maybe, all the cool kids are doing it.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 13:16:20 GMT
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jun 2, 2023 13:28:08 GMT
Different people have different priorities. Great point Einstein.
Yep you certainly missed it.
As you appear to be the only one who has, I'll try and walk you through it again.
Not you Fozzy, nor me, nor anyone, gets to decide which cause takes priority when it comes to protest.
You are being just as arrogant as the Just Stop Oil protesters in claiming that you can.
I could have used a myriad of different analogies to make the point but if I had used I dunno (say), Black Lives Matter or CND or Windrush, the point wouldn't have been as stark.
If a cause matters to a person or persons, be it, the closure of a local bus route, the opening of a new McDonalds, or the desire to see Wispa chocolate bars back on the shelves, we all have an equal right to protest on the streets in support of those causes.
What we don't have, is the right to protest on the streets at anytime and in any place we feel like it.
Just imagine what society we would be living in, if everybody who felt they had a legitimate cause to do so, did do so.
Exactly as the suffragettes did..actually they did worse by throwing themselves under horses, smashing windows, chaining themselves up inside Parliament, destroying property etc I see the point you're making but I therefore presume by your own argument that you must be totally against what they did back at the turn of the Twentieth century, as well? If you think "that's different" or "No, that was fine" then all you're doing is exactly what you're telling the rest we're not allowed to i.e. prioritising their cause over this one. Which is it Paul, hypocrite or are you as equally against the suffragettes' methods as well? It's fine if you're against what they did too, at least then you're being consistent but they sure as hell wouldn't have got anywhere without using those methods.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2023 14:44:17 GMT
Yep you certainly missed it.
As you appear to be the only one who has, I'll try and walk you through it again.
Not you Fozzy, nor me, nor anyone, gets to decide which cause takes priority when it comes to protest.
You are being just as arrogant as the Just Stop Oil protesters in claiming that you can.
I could have used a myriad of different analogies to make the point but if I had used I dunno (say), Black Lives Matter or CND or Windrush, the point wouldn't have been as stark.
If a cause matters to a person or persons, be it, the closure of a local bus route, the opening of a new McDonalds, or the desire to see Wispa chocolate bars back on the shelves, we all have an equal right to protest on the streets in support of those causes.
What we don't have, is the right to protest on the streets at anytime and in any place we feel like it.
Just imagine what society we would be living in, if everybody who felt they had a legitimate cause to do so, did do so.
Exactly as the suffragettes did..actually they did worse by throwing themselves under horses, smashing windows, chaining themselves up inside Parliament, destroying property etc I see the point you're making but I therefore presume by your own argument that you must be totally against what they did back at the turn of the Twentieth century, as well? If you think "that's different" or "No, that was fine" then all you're doing is exactly what you're telling the rest we're not allowed to i.e. prioritising their cause over this one. Which is it Paul, hypocrite or are you as equally against the suffragettes' methods as well? It's fine if you're against what they did too, at least then you're being consistent but they sure as hell wouldn't have got anywhere without using those methods. That's why I (carefully) made specific and exclusive reference to protesting on the streets Millsy and didn't once claim they shouldn't be able to use other forms of protest. If you like, you can go back and read my posts, which made absolutely no mention of any of the stuff in your post. I don't have any problem with them taking direct action in other forms. I'm just repeating myself now but as you didn't seem to get my point first time ... IMO, you can't have people protesting on our highways whenever they feel like it. If they want to exercise their right to protest on the streets, then the Just Stop Oil Protesters should do it just like everybody else and arrange to do it in conjunction with the local authorities and the police. They are not a special exception.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jun 2, 2023 15:14:12 GMT
Exactly as the suffragettes did..actually they did worse by throwing themselves under horses, smashing windows, chaining themselves up inside Parliament, destroying property etc I see the point you're making but I therefore presume by your own argument that you must be totally against what they did back at the turn of the Twentieth century, as well? If you think "that's different" or "No, that was fine" then all you're doing is exactly what you're telling the rest we're not allowed to i.e. prioritising their cause over this one. Which is it Paul, hypocrite or are you as equally against the suffragettes' methods as well? It's fine if you're against what they did too, at least then you're being consistent but they sure as hell wouldn't have got anywhere without using those methods. That's why I (carefully) made specific and exclusive reference to protesting on the streets Millsy and didn't once claim they shouldn't be able to use other forms of protest. If you like, you can go back and read my posts, which made absolutely no mention of any of the stuff in your post. I don't have any problem with them taking direct action in other forms. I'm just repeating myself now but as you didn't seem to get my point first time ... IMO, you can't have people protesting on our highways whenever they feel like it. If they want to exercise their right to protest on the streets, then the Just Stop Oil Protesters should do it just like everybody else and arrange to do it in conjunction with the local authorities and the police. They are not a special exception. FFS Paul! Twice in as many weeks now that I'm having to "stand down" with you Not to self: read properly before going off on one FFS!! The suffragettes street protests (massive as they were) were organised properly, that's the point you're making.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2023 15:31:51 GMT
That's why I (carefully) made specific and exclusive reference to protesting on the streets Millsy and didn't once claim they shouldn't be able to use other forms of protest. If you like, you can go back and read my posts, which made absolutely no mention of any of the stuff in your post. I don't have any problem with them taking direct action in other forms. I'm just repeating myself now but as you didn't seem to get my point first time ... IMO, you can't have people protesting on our highways whenever they feel like it. If they want to exercise their right to protest on the streets, then the Just Stop Oil Protesters should do it just like everybody else and arrange to do it in conjunction with the local authorities and the police. They are not a special exception. FFS Paul! Twice in as many weeks now that I'm having to "stand down" with you Not to self: read properly before going off on one FFS!! The suffragettes street protests (massive as they were) were organised properly, that's the point you're making. No worries at all mate! 👍
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Post by foster on Jun 2, 2023 15:44:28 GMT
Exactly as the suffragettes did..actually they did worse by throwing themselves under horses, smashing windows, chaining themselves up inside Parliament, destroying property etc I see the point you're making but I therefore presume by your own argument that you must be totally against what they did back at the turn of the Twentieth century, as well? If you think "that's different" or "No, that was fine" then all you're doing is exactly what you're telling the rest we're not allowed to i.e. prioritising their cause over this one. Which is it Paul, hypocrite or are you as equally against the suffragettes' methods as well? It's fine if you're against what they did too, at least then you're being consistent but they sure as hell wouldn't have got anywhere without using those methods. That's why I (carefully) made specific and exclusive reference to protesting on the streets Millsy and didn't once claim they shouldn't be able to use other forms of protest. If you like, you can go back and read my posts, which made absolutely no mention of any of the stuff in your post. I don't have any problem with them taking direct action in other forms. I'm just repeating myself now but as you didn't seem to get my point first time ... IMO, you can't have people protesting on our highways whenever they feel like it. If they want to exercise their right to protest on the streets, then the Just Stop Oil Protesters should do it just like everybody else and arrange to do it in conjunction with the local authorities and the police. They are not a special exception. The thing is that if you're going to protest about something then it should have an impact and consequence for it to be successful. Otherwise you may as well not bother as you won't be noticed. The government certainly won't give a shit. When members of a union protest or strike they can afford to coordinate it with the police, as simply by protesting in an orderly way they will have an adverse impact on other peoples daily lives, through the removal of public services (transport, hospital care, policing, etc.). In order for smaller developing groups of activists to achieve the publicity they need they have to make an impact in other ways. It would be naïve to think that they can realistically achieve anything by following the same orderly protest and striking rules used by railway workers or nurses. As for laying down on motorways, I'm not condoning that as it only hurts motorists, blocks traffic and causes more pollution....But there are some other decent suggestions that Gawa made earlier that could be just as effective. I edited them below and removed the other 5 shitty suggestions he came up with. - Block oil tankers and depots. - Protest at the company / governmental premises and facilities. - Do demonstrations like 'led by donkeys' with huge screens hired out to educate passers by. - Target their digital online presence.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 2, 2023 16:08:32 GMT
That's why I (carefully) made specific and exclusive reference to protesting on the streets Millsy and didn't once claim they shouldn't be able to use other forms of protest. If you like, you can go back and read my posts, which made absolutely no mention of any of the stuff in your post. I don't have any problem with them taking direct action in other forms. I'm just repeating myself now but as you didn't seem to get my point first time ... IMO, you can't have people protesting on our highways whenever they feel like it. If they want to exercise their right to protest on the streets, then the Just Stop Oil Protesters should do it just like everybody else and arrange to do it in conjunction with the local authorities and the police. They are not a special exception. The thing is that if you're going to protest about something then it should have an impact and consequence for it to be successful. Otherwise you may as well not bother as you won't be noticed. The government certainly won't give a shit. When members of a union protest or strike they can afford to coordinate it with the police, as simply by protesting in an orderly way they will have an adverse impact on other peoples daily lives, through the removal of public services (transport, hospital care, policing, etc.). In order for smaller developing groups of activists to achieve the publicity they need they have to make an impact in other ways. It would be naïve to think that they can realistically achieve anything by following the same orderly protest and striking rules used by railway workers or nurses. As for laying down on motorways, I'm not condoning that as it only hurts motorists, blocks traffic and causes more pollution....But there are some other decent suggestions that Gawa made earlier that could be just as effective. I edited them below and removed the other 5 shitty suggestions he came up with. - Block oil tankers and depots. - Protest at the company / governmental premises and facilities. - Do demonstrations like 'led by donkeys' with huge screens hired out to educate passers by. - Target their digital online presence. Spot on. The entire point of the nature of these protests. In that regard, whether or not you agree with them is neither here nor there, the point is that writing strongly worded letters gets you nowhere.
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Post by tuum on Jun 2, 2023 17:08:42 GMT
Do these protestors realise that backed up traffic will be releasing emissions, and that the contractors' vans who have to travel to sites to clean up their paint don't run on fairy dust? Do you realise that's not what they are protesting about, emissions etc. ? Their main aim is to stop the government issuing new consents and licensing agreements related to the development, exploration, and production of oil Lovely. Not practical
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2023 18:50:50 GMT
That's why I (carefully) made specific and exclusive reference to protesting on the streets Millsy and didn't once claim they shouldn't be able to use other forms of protest. If you like, you can go back and read my posts, which made absolutely no mention of any of the stuff in your post. I don't have any problem with them taking direct action in other forms. I'm just repeating myself now but as you didn't seem to get my point first time ... IMO, you can't have people protesting on our highways whenever they feel like it. If they want to exercise their right to protest on the streets, then the Just Stop Oil Protesters should do it just like everybody else and arrange to do it in conjunction with the local authorities and the police. They are not a special exception. The thing is that if you're going to protest about something then it should have an impact and consequence for it to be successful. Otherwise you may as well not bother as you won't be noticed. The government certainly won't give a shit. When members of a union protest or strike they can afford to coordinate it with the police, as simply by protesting in an orderly way they will have an adverse impact on other peoples daily lives, through the removal of public services (transport, hospital care, policing, etc.). In order for smaller developing groups of activists to achieve the publicity they need they have to make an impact in other ways. It would be naïve to think that they can realistically achieve anything by following the same orderly protest and striking rules used by railway workers or nurses. As for laying down on motorways, I'm not condoning that as it only hurts motorists, blocks traffic and causes more pollution....But there are some other decent suggestions that Gawa made earlier that could be just as effective. I edited them below and removed the other 5 shitty suggestions he came up with. - Block oil tankers and depots. - Protest at the company / governmental premises and facilities. - Do demonstrations like 'led by donkeys' with huge screens hired out to educate passers by. - Target their digital online presence. Yeah, isn't that what I said?
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Post by gawa on Jun 2, 2023 19:06:10 GMT
This foster Paul argument is literally two bald men fighting over a comb material.
Can yous at least get a bit personal to make it interesting for the rest of us.
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Post by foster on Jun 2, 2023 19:55:01 GMT
The thing is that if you're going to protest about something then it should have an impact and consequence for it to be successful. Otherwise you may as well not bother as you won't be noticed. The government certainly won't give a shit. When members of a union protest or strike they can afford to coordinate it with the police, as simply by protesting in an orderly way they will have an adverse impact on other peoples daily lives, through the removal of public services (transport, hospital care, policing, etc.). In order for smaller developing groups of activists to achieve the publicity they need they have to make an impact in other ways. It would be naïve to think that they can realistically achieve anything by following the same orderly protest and striking rules used by railway workers or nurses. As for laying down on motorways, I'm not condoning that as it only hurts motorists, blocks traffic and causes more pollution....But there are some other decent suggestions that Gawa made earlier that could be just as effective. I edited them below and removed the other 5 shitty suggestions he came up with. - Block oil tankers and depots. - Protest at the company / governmental premises and facilities. - Do demonstrations like 'led by donkeys' with huge screens hired out to educate passers by. - Target their digital online presence. Yeah, isn't that what I said? No it isn't, Einstein.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 2, 2023 19:58:14 GMT
I sense a bromance coming on…..
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2023 20:02:57 GMT
I sense a bromance coming on….. It's actually becoming quite tedious. I don't know what his issue is, it's rather pathetic and quite childish. But hey, nevermind.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 2, 2023 20:05:04 GMT
I sense a bromance coming on….. It's actually becoming quite tedious. I don't know what his issue is, it's rather pathetic and quite childish. But hey, nevermind. There’s the first sign, resentment 😉
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Post by gawa on Jun 2, 2023 20:14:10 GMT
I sense a bromance coming on….. It's actually becoming quite tedious. I don't know what his issue is, it's rather pathetic and quite childish. But hey, nevermind. I think he's upset because I said you were a good poster once. foster you're a great poster too mate.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2023 20:22:41 GMT
It's actually becoming quite tedious. I don't know what his issue is, it's rather pathetic and quite childish. But hey, nevermind. There’s the first sign, resentment 😉 It's not resentment Badge but rather, more like exasperation and then he sticks his childish 'Einstein' remark at the end of each post. It's proper primary school stuff and I have no idea why he thinks by doing so, he's apparently being clever. I just want to debate the topic in hand.
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Post by foster on Jun 2, 2023 20:23:16 GMT
I sense a bromance coming on….. It's actually becoming quite tedious. I don't know what his issue is, it's rather pathetic and quite childish. But hey, nevermind. Issue? What issue? What's with the personal attack? Stop crying and grow up mate.
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Post by foster on Jun 2, 2023 20:24:26 GMT
There’s the first sign, resentment 😉 It's not resentment Badge but rather, more like exasperation and then he sticks his childish 'Einstein' remark at the end of each post. It's proper primary school stuff and I have no idea why he thinks by doing so, he's apparently being clever. I just want to debate the topic in hand. Stop crying Newton.
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