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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 9:11:24 GMT
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Post by bertieb on Aug 29, 2022 9:11:24 GMT
Just wondering what this change of manager will do the mindset of Emre Tezgel and his parents, will they have second thoughts about signing when his birthday comes around, apologies if his birthday already has come around, will Neil be aware of how highly we rate him and how important he could be to us, Im hoping so.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 9:21:56 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 29, 2022 9:21:56 GMT
I’m sure Neils not silly. Might benefit from a loan to help him with his development though.
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 29, 2022 9:22:41 GMT
I thought that he had already signed some sort of contract committment, to take effect on his 17th Birthday?
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 9:25:49 GMT
Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 29, 2022 9:25:49 GMT
Injured currently isn't he?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 29, 2022 9:26:54 GMT
Just wondering what this change of manager will do the mindset of Emre Tezgel and his parents, will they have second thoughts about signing when his birthday comes around, apologies if his birthday already has come around, will Neil be aware of how highly we rate him and how important he could be to us, Im hoping so. It looks like most of the managerial team (and all the Academy team) will be remaining in post so the people who see Tezgel day to day will, I am sure, brief AN on his ability. To be fair, once AN looks at his scoring record playing for England youth teams he will realise that he has potentially, a good player on his hands. I doubt if the change of manager will have any adverse effect on Tezgel or his parents. Most academy players who have been with the club for any length of time will be well aware that managers come and go. Providing AN likes to give young players a chance (and apparently he does) then Tezgel's future should be as bright as it was under MON.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 9:28:15 GMT
Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 29, 2022 9:28:15 GMT
I thought that he had already signed some sort of contract committment, to take effect on his 18th Birthday? I think he is due to sign his first pro contract next month on his 17th Birthday.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 9:31:03 GMT
Just wondering what this change of manager will do the mindset of Emre Tezgel and his parents, will they have second thoughts about signing when his birthday comes around, apologies if his birthday already has come around, will Neil be aware of how highly we rate him and how important he could be to us, Im hoping so. Pretty sure the board are highly invested in his progress as a Stoke City player. I'm pretty sure Neil will have had to buy into development of Tezgel and all the youngsters. I very much doubt if they would tolerate a situation of Pulis like attitude to development. If you watched or attended the recent Q&A Jon sounded totally commited to it and far prouder of it than events on the pitch of late.
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Post by lordb on Aug 29, 2022 9:56:00 GMT
Just wondering what this change of manager will do the mindset of Emre Tezgel and his parents, will they have second thoughts about signing when his birthday comes around, apologies if his birthday already has come around, will Neil be aware of how highly we rate him and how important he could be to us, Im hoping so. Pretty sure the board are highly invested in his progress as a Stoke City player. I'm pretty sure Neil will have had to buy into development of Tezgel and all the youngsters. I very much doubt if they would tolerate a situation of Pulis like attitude to development. If you watched or attended the recent Q&A Jon sounded totally commited to it and far prouder of it than events on the pitch of late. I don't think we will appoint a manager who doesn't have decent level of commitment to bringing the young players through
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 29, 2022 10:00:33 GMT
With the structure at the club and the quality of the younger players it would take a brave/foolish manager to ignore them.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 10:05:33 GMT
With the structure at the club and the quality of the younger players it would take a brave/foolish manager to ignore them. I just don't think it would be tolerated. I watched the Q&A and saw Jon talking about a player who'd been at the club since the age of 9 walking out onto the pitch for the first team and he was brimming with pride over it, much more enthused than any of the other subjects covered. No idea which player he was referring to but it could have been Tezgel.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 10:14:38 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 29, 2022 10:14:38 GMT
Pretty sure the board are highly invested in his progress as a Stoke City player. I'm pretty sure Neil will have had to buy into development of Tezgel and all the youngsters. I very much doubt if they would tolerate a situation of Pulis like attitude to development. If you watched or attended the recent Q&A Jon sounded totally commited to it and far prouder of it than events on the pitch of late. I don't think we will appoint a manager who doesn't have decent level of commitment to bringing the young players through Neil has stated in the past that he believes you need experience to get promoted - ideally in the 27-29 age bracket. The appointment of Neil definitely means the path to the first team will be harder for the youngsters. If a young player is worthy of a first team place I'm sure Neil will play them but I don't think the likes of Bursic, Sparrow and DWP will get the game time they've had under O'Neill - if he can get an experienced player in to cut out the mistakes that come with playing youngsters he will. When O'Neill was sacked John Coates said the club were looking for a new direction. O'Neill was building a young squad that will only show its full potential in another 2 or 3 years the club and the fans lost patience. Neil is a shit or bust appointment in the mould of Rowett and Jones - hopefully better but with a brief to get promoted at any cost. He'll get a healthy budget for transfers next summer and he'll use that to build a squad of experienced players capable of promotion. Developing youngsters is definitely going to take second place.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 10:15:12 GMT
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Post by Veritas on Aug 29, 2022 10:15:12 GMT
With the structure at the club and the quality of the younger players it would take a brave/foolish manager to ignore them. It may well have played a part in convincing him to come from what we have to admit is a bigger club.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 10:49:35 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 29, 2022 10:49:35 GMT
With the structure at the club and the quality of the younger players it would take a brave/foolish manager to ignore them. It may well have played a part in convincing him to come from what we have to admit is a bigger club. He came because we offered him more money, a bigger budget and more control over the running of the club - it's nothing to do with our youth setup, he wants to get promotion on his CV and we are currently in a better place than Sunderland to achieve this. Sunderland seem to have a Watford like structure - it's quite telling that they are advertising for a Head Coach rather than a manager. We employ an old school manager with far more say in strategy and recruitment. If Neil rates experience over youth - which is what he has said in the past - then it will be him who decides on the relative priority of youth development as against short term results. Unless he has a change of heart I can't see the development of youth playing a big part in his decisions and the only youngsters in the match day squad will be the ones who are there purely on merit. Unless Neil makes us promotion candidates this season (and everyone conveniently forgets about youth development) this is going to be a very divisive appointment and anyone wanting to see youth development high on the list of priorities is going to get pissed off pretty quickly. At least the O'Neill Out thread won't take much editing.
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Post by baystokie on Aug 29, 2022 11:00:15 GMT
It may well have played a part in convincing him to come from what we have to admit is a bigger club. He came because we offered him more money, a bigger budget and more control over the running of the club - it's nothing to do with our youth setup, he wants to get promotion on his CV and we are currently in a better place than Sunderland to achieve this. Sunderland seem to have a Watford like structure - it's quite telling that they are advertising for a Head Coach rather than a manager. We employ an old school manager with far more say in strategy and recruitment. If Neil rates experience over youth - which is what he has said in the past - then it will be him who decides on the relative priority of youth development as against short term results. Unless he has a change of heart I can't see the development of youth playing a big part in his decisions and the only youngsters in the match day squad will be the ones who are there purely on merit. Unless Neil makes us promotion candidates this season (and everyone conveniently forgets about youth development) this is going to be a very divisive appointment and anyone wanting to see youth development high on the list of priorities is going to get pissed off pretty quickly. At least the O'Neill Out thread won't take much editing. Would have thought that merit is the only reason for youngsters being in the match day squad.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 11:06:00 GMT
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gawa likes this
Post by themistocles on Aug 29, 2022 11:06:00 GMT
What's his Injury ?
Both him and Griffiths did all preseason with the first team then came out injured.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 11:13:42 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 11:13:42 GMT
It may well have played a part in convincing him to come from what we have to admit is a bigger club. He came because we offered him more money, a bigger budget and more control over the running of the club - it's nothing to do with our youth setup, he wants to get promotion on his CV and we are currently in a better place than Sunderland to achieve this. Sunderland seem to have a Watford like structure - it's quite telling that they are advertising for a Head Coach rather than a manager. We employ an old school manager with far more say in strategy and recruitment. If Neil rates experience over youth - which is what he has said in the past - then it will be him who decides on the relative priority of youth development as against short term results. Unless he has a change of heart I can't see the development of youth playing a big part in his decisions and the only youngsters in the match day squad will be the ones who are there purely on merit. Unless Neil makes us promotion candidates this season (and everyone conveniently forgets about youth development) this is going to be a very divisive appointment and anyone wanting to see youth development high on the list of priorities is going to get pissed off pretty quickly. At least the O'Neill Out thread won't take much editing. It's partially divisive on football grounds without even considering developing young players. Those of us who pine for a more progressive head coach in a more modern structure will give him a chance but results will have to justify his unpleasant methods. When playing his teams I've always thought what an absolute bunch of cnuts. I'll hold my nose if he can produce significant results if not watch this space.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 11:13:53 GMT
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Post by pmjh on Aug 29, 2022 11:13:53 GMT
He came because we offered him more money, a bigger budget and more control over the running of the club - it's nothing to do with our youth setup, he wants to get promotion on his CV and we are currently in a better place than Sunderland to achieve this. Sunderland seem to have a Watford like structure - it's quite telling that they are advertising for a Head Coach rather than a manager. We employ an old school manager with far more say in strategy and recruitment. If Neil rates experience over youth - which is what he has said in the past - then it will be him who decides on the relative priority of youth development as against short term results. Unless he has a change of heart I can't see the development of youth playing a big part in his decisions and the only youngsters in the match day squad will be the ones who are there purely on merit. Unless Neil makes us promotion candidates this season (and everyone conveniently forgets about youth development) this is going to be a very divisive appointment and anyone wanting to see youth development high on the list of priorities is going to get pissed off pretty quickly. At least the O'Neill Out thread won't take much editing. Would have thought that merit is the only reason for youngsters being in the match day squad. Me too
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 29, 2022 11:24:58 GMT
He came because we offered him more money, a bigger budget and more control over the running of the club - it's nothing to do with our youth setup, he wants to get promotion on his CV and we are currently in a better place than Sunderland to achieve this. Sunderland seem to have a Watford like structure - it's quite telling that they are advertising for a Head Coach rather than a manager. We employ an old school manager with far more say in strategy and recruitment. If Neil rates experience over youth - which is what he has said in the past - then it will be him who decides on the relative priority of youth development as against short term results. Unless he has a change of heart I can't see the development of youth playing a big part in his decisions and the only youngsters in the match day squad will be the ones who are there purely on merit. Unless Neil makes us promotion candidates this season (and everyone conveniently forgets about youth development) this is going to be a very divisive appointment and anyone wanting to see youth development high on the list of priorities is going to get pissed off pretty quickly. At least the O'Neill Out thread won't take much editing. It's partially divisive on football grounds without even considering developing young players. Those of us who pine for a more progressive head coach in a more modern structure will give him a chance but results will have to justify his unpleasant methods. When playing his teams I've always thought what an absolute bunch of cnuts. I'll hold my nose if he can produce significant results if not watch this space. Well at least that's honest and proves my point - unless we get results and are top six by Xmas the knives will be out. I'd prefer a more progressive manager and a more modern structure but we are where are - an old fashioned club with a pragmatic manager. I'd like to see us develop the youngsters but the club and the fans simply don't have the patience and I think Neil is right - you improve your chances of promotion by playing experienced players and prioritising youth will impact on results. To be fair although Neil's sides are very good at the dark arts supporters of his teams have said the football can be a good watch. I'm certainly prepared to give him a chance and won't be first in line to stab him in the back - you and a few others are already front of that line and will be followed by those who want us to prioritise youth development - I don't think many have cottoned on to the implications of this appointment just yet.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 11:32:03 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 29, 2022 11:32:03 GMT
Would have thought that merit is the only reason for youngsters being in the match day squad. Me too Some of the youngsters have been played for experience and the hope they will come good. However Bursik really shouldn't have been first choice for some time and Sparrow and DWP look nowhere near Championship ready. We have also favoured younger players in terms of loans and transfers - the fact youngsters are making the first team squad is a result of our recruitment strategy and not because they are actually the best players available out there. Once Neil gets a grip on recruitment I strongly suspect the youngsters will get squeezed out based on the ability to deliver on the day.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 13:49:11 GMT
Post by bertieb on Aug 29, 2022 13:49:11 GMT
I don't think we will appoint a manager who doesn't have decent level of commitment to bringing the young players through Neil has stated in the past that he believes you need experience to get promoted - ideally in the 27-29 age bracket. The appointment of Neil definitely means the path to the first team will be harder for the youngsters. If a young player is worthy of a first team place I'm sure Neil will play them but I don't think the likes of Bursic, Sparrow and DWP will get the game time they've had under O'Neill - if he can get an experienced player in to cut out the mistakes that come with playing youngsters he will. When O'Neill was sacked John Coates said the club were looking for a new direction. O'Neill was building a young squad that will only show its full potential in another 2 or 3 years the club and the fans lost patience. Neil is a shit or bust appointment in the mould of Rowett and Jones - hopefully better but with a brief to get promoted at any cost. He'll get a healthy budget for transfers next summer and he'll use that to build a squad of experienced players capable of promotion. Developing youngsters is definitely going to take second place. this is what I was alluding to, he apparently lost patience with Sunderland sticking to their signing young players policy and not letting him bring experience in, and he has said in the past that he favours experience. It is definitely going to be a harder path to the first team now, and that may alter Tezgel and his parents thinking.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 14:00:58 GMT
Post by biglad180 on Aug 29, 2022 14:00:58 GMT
Emre Tezel is a young lad who is nowhere near ready for the first team yet and i think is parents will know it how many 17 year olds are playing regularly in english football, not many i think.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 14:43:31 GMT
Post by wuzza on Aug 29, 2022 14:43:31 GMT
Some of the youngsters have been played for experience and the hope they will come good. However Bursik really shouldn't have been first choice for some time and Sparrow and DWP look nowhere near Championship ready. We have also favoured younger players in terms of loans and transfers - the fact youngsters are making the first team squad is a result of our recruitment strategy and not because they are actually the best players available out there. Once Neil gets a grip on recruitment I strongly suspect the youngsters will get squeezed out based on the ability to deliver on the day. I don’t want to see a situation where youth development is seen as the primary function. You almost never get the benefit of the end product at clubs where this is the case. We need an environment where if you are good enough you get your chance but nothing more or less than that. A poor man’s version of Chelsea or Man City I suppose rather than a full on Crewe Alexandra.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 29, 2022 15:13:32 GMT
Some of the youngsters have been played for experience and the hope they will come good. However Bursik really shouldn't have been first choice for some time and Sparrow and DWP look nowhere near Championship ready. We have also favoured younger players in terms of loans and transfers - the fact youngsters are making the first team squad is a result of our recruitment strategy and not because they are actually the best players available out there. Once Neil gets a grip on recruitment I strongly suspect the youngsters will get squeezed out based on the ability to deliver on the day. I don’t want to see a situation where youth development is seen as the primary function. You almost never get the benefit of the end product at clubs where this is the case. We need an environment where if you are good enough you get your chance but nothing more or less than that. A poor man’s version of Chelsea or Man City I suppose rather than a full on Crewe Alexandra. I tend to agree. It sometimes works - for example Southampton did it very successfully a good few years ago and Manchester United did it with the Beckham generation but reverted to type - as did Chelsea when they sacked Lampard. For all the plaudits Crewe rightly get for their academy it hasn't really led to success in terms of their position in the leagues. You have to be very lucky to get a generation come through your academy and all the top clubs rely on transfers and top up with the occasional youngster from within the ranks. It looked to me like the club and O'Neill and the club committed to getting more out of the academy but that commitment looks to have been ditched with the appointment of Neil. I think the OP is right to flag this as a possible consequence of the Neil appointment because Neil by his own admission believes in experience over potential when it comes to picking a team that can deliver results in the short term. I think he's right - believing you can play youngsters in order to benefit down the line and win things before they have reached their peak is just wishful thinking. This isn't just a change of manager - it's a change of strategy that includes downplaying the contribution of the academy.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 15:22:51 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 15:22:51 GMT
Some of the youngsters have been played for experience and the hope they will come good. However Bursik really shouldn't have been first choice for some time and Sparrow and DWP look nowhere near Championship ready. We have also favoured younger players in terms of loans and transfers - the fact youngsters are making the first team squad is a result of our recruitment strategy and not because they are actually the best players available out there. Once Neil gets a grip on recruitment I strongly suspect the youngsters will get squeezed out based on the ability to deliver on the day. I don’t want to see a situation where youth development is seen as the primary function. You almost never get the benefit of the end product at clubs where this is the case. We need an environment where if you are good enough you get your chance but nothing more or less than that. A poor man’s version of Chelsea or Man City I suppose rather than a full on Crewe Alexandra. I don't mind being a development club because my prime motive is enjoyment of the football over success I don't think being a struggling premier league team is much fun. What I would say is if that ever were to become the model the club would have to be completely open and honest about it. I've certainly had my suspiscions about it over the past 4/5 years but never been able to square it with the spaffing of all that money post relegation.
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Post by wuzza on Aug 29, 2022 15:23:22 GMT
I don’t want to see a situation where youth development is seen as the primary function. You almost never get the benefit of the end product at clubs where this is the case. We need an environment where if you are good enough you get your chance but nothing more or less than that. A poor man’s version of Chelsea or Man City I suppose rather than a full on Crewe Alexandra. I tend to agree. It sometimes works - for example Southampton did it very successfully a good few years ago and Manchester United did it with the Beckham generation but reverted to type - as did Chelsea when they sacked Lampard. For all the plaudits Crewe rightly get for their academy it hasn't really led to success in terms of their position in the leagues. You have to be very lucky to get a generation come through your academy and all the top clubs rely on transfers and top up with the occasional youngster from within the ranks. It looked to me like the club and O'Neill and the club committed to getting more out of the academy but that commitment looks to have been ditched with the appointment of Neil. I think the OP is right to flag this as a possible consequence of the Neil appointment because Neil by his own admission believes in experience over potential when it comes to picking a team that can deliver results in the short term. I think he's right - believing you can play youngsters in order to benefit down the line and win things before they have reached their peak is just wishful thinking. This isn't just a change of manager - it's a change of strategy that includes downplaying the contribution of the academy. Ideal scenario is I guess to make progress with one or two in the side, reach the promised land and therefore be in a position to keep them if they are very good (as Tezgel appears to be. )
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Post by bertieb on Aug 29, 2022 15:41:49 GMT
Emre Tezel is a young lad who is nowhere near ready for the first team yet and i think is parents will know it how many 17 year olds are playing regularly in english football, not many i think. The point I was making is, MON offered him a quicker route to first team football than the clubs chasing him, that may have changed now that he has gone, and they may think we may as well be at a more successful club if the first team opportunities are about the same.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 15:44:15 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 29, 2022 15:44:15 GMT
I don’t want to see a situation where youth development is seen as the primary function. You almost never get the benefit of the end product at clubs where this is the case. We need an environment where if you are good enough you get your chance but nothing more or less than that. A poor man’s version of Chelsea or Man City I suppose rather than a full on Crewe Alexandra. I don't mind being a development club because my prime motive is enjoyment of the football over success I don't think being a struggling premier league team is much fun. What I would say is if that ever were to become the model the club would have to be completely open and honest about it. I've certainly had my suspiscions about it over the past 4/5 years but never been able to square it with the spaffing of all that money post relegation. We never relied on the academy under Pulis or Hughes, Lambert's brief was to keep us up and Rowett and Jones were given the task of immediate return. When it all went belly up the club gave O'Neill the chance to build over a number of seasons with an emphasis on youth but seem to have given up on that now that the squad has been downsized and FFP isn't as big a threat. I think you will find you are the minority in prioritising entertainment over results even among supporters - most will prioritize results as will most owners and every manager with the sort of track record that makes them even remotely employable. I want us to play entertaining football but recognise results come first and entertainment is a desirable outcome but not the primary aim. A lot of supporters will put up with crap football as long as the results are good but that I struggle with. Neil strikes as a results orientated manager - I don't think you are going to be happy with this appointment but then I think you are doomed to disappointment given what you want is very unlikely to happen.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 15:45:05 GMT
Post by bertieb on Aug 29, 2022 15:45:05 GMT
Emre Tezel is a young lad who is nowhere near ready for the first team yet and i think is parents will know it how many 17 year olds are playing regularly in english football, not many i think.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 29, 2022 15:46:35 GMT
I don't mind being a development club because my prime motive is enjoyment of the football over success I don't think being a struggling premier league team is much fun. What I would say is if that ever were to become the model the club would have to be completely open and honest about it. I've certainly had my suspiscions about it over the past 4/5 years but never been able to square it with the spaffing of all that money post relegation. We never relied on the academy under Pulis or Hughes, Lambert's brief was to keep us up and Rowett and Jones were given the task of immediate return. When it all went belly up the club gave O'Neill the chance to build over a number of seasons with an emphasis on youth but seem to have given up on that now that the squad has been downsized and FFP isn't as big a threat. I think you will find you are the minority in prioritising entertainment over results even among supporters - most will prioritize results as will most owners and every manager with the sort of track record that makes them even remotely employable. I want us to play entertaining football but recognise results come first and entertainment is a desirable outcome but not the primary aim. A lot of supporters will put up with crap football as long as the results are good but that I struggle with. Neil strikes as a results orientated manager - I don't think you are going to be happy with this appointment but then I think you are doomed to disappointment given what you want is very unlikely to happen. Don't worry I don't kid myself it is.
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Tezgel
Aug 29, 2022 16:32:18 GMT
Post by maine on Aug 29, 2022 16:32:18 GMT
I'm not sure about Neill having an aversion to younger players. Almost the last thing he did at Sunderland was bull up the arrival of a kid from Costa Rica. He will, I imagine want someone like Ben Pearson to do some dirty midfield work. Maybe Laurent or Kilkenny can be worked on, or maybe he'll try for Pearson.
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