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Post by steve66 on Jun 21, 2022 9:47:15 GMT
Spot on as is the case with most organisations whether it’s nursing, Policing, postal workers you have to climb the ladder. What I’m saying is what makes them more important than any of the aforementioned. Maybe everyone should go on strike and the country grinds to a halt. They've never said they're more important than anyone else. It's a union fighting for its members in a particular sector, those other workers are perfectly entitled to withdraw the labour in the same way. Do you support the principle of workers striking? They not more important than thousands of others, not the right time to strike given the current climate, I’ve been on strike before and never really agreed, cost me personally a fortune at a time I had young family.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 21, 2022 9:50:50 GMT
They've never said they're more important than anyone else. It's a union fighting for its members in a particular sector, those other workers are perfectly entitled to withdraw the labour in the same way. Do you support the principle of workers striking? it depends on a number of circs and as to the background of why the issues have occurred as to whether i think strikings the answer. I’d also like to think about who am I hitting hardest and what will I achieve? what I don’t believe in is the country grinding to a halt like it did in the 70s no rubbish being collected etc. What if the nurses downed tools and people lost there lives or the police downed tools and there was no one to respond to serious incidents or accidents is that justifiable reason to strike. Maybe I’m too easily pleased and have got my head around the fact that life’s not fair. RMT are asking for 7% That's still below inflation. What's your point here?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 21, 2022 9:53:15 GMT
it depends on a number of circs and as to the background of why the issues have occurred as to whether i think strikings the answer. I’d also like to think about who am I hitting hardest and what will I achieve? what I don’t believe in is the country grinding to a halt like it did in the 70s no rubbish being collected etc. What if the nurses downed tools and people lost there lives or the police downed tools and there was no one to respond to serious incidents or accidents is that justifiable reason to strike. Maybe I’m too easily pleased and have got my head around the fact that life’s not fair. RMT are asking for 7% That's still below inflation. What's your point here? What’s yours?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 21, 2022 9:54:26 GMT
RMT are asking for 7% That's still below inflation. What's your point here? What’s yours? I'm asking you a direct question. Can you not answer?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 21, 2022 9:58:31 GMT
They've never said they're more important than anyone else. It's a union fighting for its members in a particular sector, those other workers are perfectly entitled to withdraw the labour in the same way. Do you support the principle of workers striking? it depends on a number of circs and as to the background of why the issues have occurred as to whether i think strikings the answer. I’d also like to think about who am I hitting hardest and what will I achieve? what I don’t believe in is the country grinding to a halt like it did in the 70s no rubbish being collected etc. What if the nurses downed tools and people lost there lives or the police downed tools and there was no one to respond to serious incidents or accidents is that justifiable reason to strike. Maybe I’m too easily pleased and have got my head around the fact that life’s not fair. Well if you’ve got your head around the fact that life’s not fair then those nurses earning less and all those other workers in other sectors just need to suck it up and get on with it surely? Your argument not mine…….
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Post by superjw on Jun 21, 2022 9:59:52 GMT
Whilst it's a great move by them, the employees will be lucky to see just over half that in their pay packets thanks to tax. This sort of thing should be tax free. They’ll see at least £1400 of it by my calculations and it’s not a one off from Rolls Royce either.They used to pay a company bonus most years in March which paid for most workers summer holiday It's great they are doing this, I get an annual bonus but I am hammered in tax, NI, student loans and pension when I get it, on average I walk away with a little over 50% As I say, with this being directly to help with cost of living, the tax man should not be taking their cut from Rolls Royce and the employees in this one off. It's clearly not aimed as a bonus in essence. Doesn't take away plaudits for RR though.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 21, 2022 10:00:34 GMT
I'm asking you a direct question. Can you not answer? My point is that the country’s in a financial crisis after covid and that something has to give. There’s some workers who haven’t had wage increases in years so what makes the rail workers special. I’m pretty sure everyone would want a 7 percent pay rise but if that happened the country would go bancrupt.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 21, 2022 10:00:50 GMT
And what do you make of it? Both sides are highly selective in the the numbers they present. Oh seeker of truth do tell what the correct numbers should beSome rail workers are very well paid, some well paid and some on low pay. Tut tut, we are not talking about Rail Workers we are talking about RMT Workers who's Median Salary is £33K, unless you tell us different in answer to above Train Drivers are VERY well paid They are not in RMT nor on strikeThat, maybe, as we see in the example above from Northy, a solution might be to give the low paid workers extra cash but the well paid and very well paid workers don’t get anything. I doubt any fair-minded person would disagree with this approach. In solidarity Rishi could raise the bands by whatever amount was agreed so that pay rise goes to employees rather than Treasury taking its slice. You never know if this type of all being in it together might sow some content within the Country given the type of inflation rates we are heading for
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 21, 2022 10:01:18 GMT
I think its Paul who is thick as shit here, you'd think by now people would now MP's expenses include staff wages and office expenses, notmally its racists tweeting this sort of shit at the likes of Lammy or Zahawi....... Do you mention David Lammy? View AttachmentI did but these expense figures are totally misleading office space and staff wages will be higher in London then wherever the other guy is from, it would be more useful seeing how much people spend on taxi's, hotels, food if you want to see who is taking the piss.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 21, 2022 10:01:25 GMT
it depends on a number of circs and as to the background of why the issues have occurred as to whether i think strikings the answer. I’d also like to think about who am I hitting hardest and what will I achieve? what I don’t believe in is the country grinding to a halt like it did in the 70s no rubbish being collected etc. What if the nurses downed tools and people lost there lives or the police downed tools and there was no one to respond to serious incidents or accidents is that justifiable reason to strike. Maybe I’m too easily pleased and have got my head around the fact that life’s not fair. Well if you’ve got your head around the fact that life’s not fair then those nurses earning less and all those other workers in other sectors just need to suck it up and get on with it surely? Your argument not mine……. My arguments not about the nurses though is it. I’ve not had a wage increase in years and I’m not thinking of striking because i recognise the cointries in a hole. So yes i guess i’m “sucking it up.”
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 21, 2022 10:03:11 GMT
Well if you’ve got your head around the fact that life’s not fair then those nurses earning less and all those other workers in other sectors just need to suck it up and get on with it surely? Your argument not mine……. My arguments not about the nurses though is it. Your argument is “life’s not fair”, whilst moaning about the fact that the RMT striking is not fair. Which seems a bit odd if I may say so……
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 21, 2022 10:05:31 GMT
My arguments not about the nurses though is it. Your argument is “life’s not fair”, whilst moaning about the fact that the RMT striking is not fair. Which seems a bit odd if I may say so…… So what’s the answer everyone out so the country grinds to a halt?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 21, 2022 10:06:26 GMT
I'm asking you a direct question. Can you not answer? My point is that the country’s in a financial crisis after covid and that something has to give. There’s some workers who haven’t had wage increases in years so what makes the rail workers special. I’m pretty sure everyone would want a 7 percent pay rise but if that happened the country would go bancrupt. A financial crisis? How can a sovereign nation that prints it's own money go bankrupt? Who does it owe the money to? The rail workers haven't had a payrise in 3 years, are they not entitled to fight for better pay? And conditions? And pensions? And safety?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 21, 2022 10:08:36 GMT
My point is that the country’s in a financial crisis after covid and that something has to give. There’s some workers who haven’t had wage increases in years so what makes the rail workers special. I’m pretty sure everyone would want a 7 percent pay rise but if that happened the country would go bancrupt. A financial crisis? How can a sovereign nation that prints it's own money go bankrupt? Who does it owe the money to? The rail workers haven't had a payrise in 3 years, are they not entitled to fight for better pay? And conditions? And pensions? And safety? The same could pretty much apply to every business : industry in the U.K. though surely? So if we print our own money we don’t need to balance the books just give everyone a million pounds and we’ll all be happy
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 21, 2022 10:12:32 GMT
A financial crisis? How can a sovereign nation that prints it's own money go bankrupt? Who does it owe the money to? The rail workers haven't had a payrise in 3 years, are they not entitled to fight for better pay? And conditions? And pensions? And safety? The same could pretty much apply to every business : industry in the U.K. though surely? So if we print our own money we don’t need to balance the books just give everyone a million pounds and we’ll all be happy Another question for you. If the RMT succeed and win a decent payrise, what do you think they might do with the extra money?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 21, 2022 10:12:57 GMT
Your argument is “life’s not fair”, whilst moaning about the fact that the RMT striking is not fair. Which seems a bit odd if I may say so…… So what’s the answer everyone out so the country grinds to a halt? The country hasn’t ground to a halt though. And there’s plenty of workers who I would absolutely support their right to strike, in fact I’d actively encourage them to do so. Covid has highlighted perfectly the importance of workers on so-called “low skilled jobs” and whilst billionaires see their wealth continue to grow and handsome dividends continue to be paid out they should absolutely fight for better pay and/or working conditions…..
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 21, 2022 10:15:56 GMT
So what’s the answer everyone out so the country grinds to a halt? The country hasn’t ground to a halt though. And there’s plenty of workers who I would absolutely support their right to strike, in fact I’d actively encourage them to do so. Covid has highlighted perfectly the importance of workers on so-called “low skilled jobs” and whilst billionaires see their wealth continue to grow and handsome dividends continue to be paid out they should absolutely fight for better pay and/or working conditions….. This. Absolutely this.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 21, 2022 10:15:59 GMT
Not excessive but what makes them any more special than nurses, care workers, bus drivers and Police officers who are on less at the same level of service / starting wage and who’ve worked throughout covid. There’s so many workers who won’t be striking and impacting on peoples lives in the way the rail workers are. There’s many more workers who’ve not had wage increases far longer than 2 years. The BBC did a good feature on the various salary bands of different groups of rail workers… Train strike: How much are rail workers paid?This is the essence of the piece… Rail travel assistants - £33,310 - includes ticket collectors, guards and information staff Rail construction and maintenance operatives - £34,998 - they lay and repair tracks Rail transport operatives - £48,750 - includes signallers and drivers' assistants Train and tram drivers - £59,189 Make of this what you will. I actually don't think Salaries is the major issue, its staffing numbers working from home is great for the professional working classes but if you then have people only making 40% or 60% of the journies they used to, supply needs to adjust to demand, less passengers = less trains = less staff including maintenance staff as there is less work. Its not like we weren't warned but when the government tried to encourage people back to the office it was only because they had vested interests in property according to some, there's no putting the WFH genie back in the bottle well guess what that will have knock on effects.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 21, 2022 10:22:23 GMT
So what’s the answer everyone out so the country grinds to a halt? The country hasn’t ground to a halt though. And there’s plenty of workers who I would absolutely support their right to strike, in fact I’d actively encourage them to do so. Covid has highlighted perfectly the importance of workers on so-called “low skilled jobs” and whilst billionaires see their wealth continue to grow and handsome dividends continue to be paid out they should absolutely fight for better pay and/or working conditions….. Not sure if you've seen this PP but it's excellent.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 21, 2022 10:47:03 GMT
The country hasn’t ground to a halt though. And there’s plenty of workers who I would absolutely support their right to strike, in fact I’d actively encourage them to do so. Covid has highlighted perfectly the importance of workers on so-called “low skilled jobs” and whilst billionaires see their wealth continue to grow and handsome dividends continue to be paid out they should absolutely fight for better pay and/or working conditions….. Not sure if you've seen this PP but it's excellent. Bit of a rant well handled by the presenter just let her say her piece as it was obvious she wasn’t up for a balanced discussion. When the caller talks about the man / woman in the street is that the one that won’t get to work or a hospital appt when they strike. The fat cats won’t be the ones who lose here it’ll be the public using the service. in relation to striking let’s for instance say they get there 7 percent increase what’s to stop them doing it again next year when they want more.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 21, 2022 10:52:02 GMT
Not sure if you've seen this PP but it's excellent. Bit of a rant well handled by the presenter just let her say her piece as it was obvious she wasn’t up for a balanced discussion. Wren the callertalks about the man / woman in the street is that the one that won’t get to work or a hospital appt when they strike. The fat cats won’t be the ones who lose here it’ll ne the ones using the service. in relation to striking let’s for instance say they get there 7 percent what’s to stop them doing it again next year when they want more. At the moment there is nothing stopping them, as the right to strike is enshrined in human rights law. Oh hang on....
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 21, 2022 11:03:06 GMT
Bit of a rant well handled by the presenter just let her say her piece as it was obvious she wasn’t up for a balanced discussion. Wren the callertalks about the man / woman in the street is that the one that won’t get to work or a hospital appt when they strike. The fat cats won’t be the ones who lose here it’ll ne the ones using the service. in relation to striking let’s for instance say they get there 7 percent what’s to stop them doing it again next year when they want more. At the moment there is nothing stopping them, as the right to strike is enshrined in human rights law. Oh hang on.... It’s defo the way forward. The binmen are more deserving than most to get an increase. Let’s get them out next.
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Post by steve66 on Jun 21, 2022 11:04:49 GMT
It’s just not the right time to strike given the mess the country is in, we are in a vicious circle, workers left jobs during pandemic and companies are struggling to replace them, hence the airport farce, the government cannot win whatever they do, they paid furlough, they should of ignored covid and let everyone get on with their lives 😤 then we would have hell up with illnesses and deaths, now helping Ukraine too whilst still dealing with brexit, ever likely we’re in a mess……
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 21, 2022 11:05:27 GMT
At the moment there is nothing stopping them, as the right to strike is enshrined in human rights law. Oh hang on.... It’s defo the way forward. The binmen are more deserving than most to get an increase. Let’s get them out next. You've just posted a YouTube clip from 5 years ago.........
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 21, 2022 11:07:22 GMT
It’s just not the right time to strike given the mess the country is in, we are in a vicious circle, workers left jobs during pandemic and companies are struggling to replace them, hence the airport farce, the government cannot win whatever they do, they paid furlough, they should of ignored covid and let everyone get on with their lives 😤 then we would have hell up with illnesses and deaths, now helping Ukraine too whilst still dealing with brexit, ever likely we’re in a mess…… There's never a right time for those that don't support the principle of workers striking, that's the long and short of it........
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 21, 2022 11:11:02 GMT
The BBC did a good feature on the various salary bands of different groups of rail workers… Train strike: How much are rail workers paid?This is the essence of the piece… Rail travel assistants - £33,310 - includes ticket collectors, guards and information staff Rail construction and maintenance operatives - £34,998 - they lay and repair tracks Rail transport operatives - £48,750 - includes signallers and drivers' assistants Train and tram drivers - £59,189 Make of this what you will. I actually don't think Salaries is the major issue, its staffing numbers working from home is great for the professional working classes but if you then have people only making 40% or 60% of the journies they used to, supply needs to adjust to demand, less passengers = less trains = less staff including maintenance staff as there is less work. Its not like we weren't warned but when the government tried to encourage people back to the office it was only because they had vested interests in property according to some, there's no putting the WFH genie back in the bottle well guess what that will have knock on effects. I suspect you’re right, the salaries may be the headline but job security is the biggest challenge for people in that industry. Scotrail, for example, even before the current dispute, was running all fits pre covid service levels for example the Glasgow - Edinburgh shuttle is half hourly rather than every 15 minutes. That has implications for the number of drivers and staff generally. Add to that driverless trains which will surely come. As you say this is a consequence of WFH which can’t be ignored or avoided for ever. Of course, many businesses don’t have the luxury of ignoring the implications of WFH as is evident in the amount of closures in city centres. So big issues ahead for everyone including the rail industry.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 21, 2022 11:16:23 GMT
It’s just not the right time to strike given the mess the country is in, we are in a vicious circle, workers left jobs during pandemic and companies are struggling to replace them, hence the airport farce, the government cannot win whatever they do, they paid furlough, they should of ignored covid and let everyone get on with their lives 😤 then we would have hell up with illnesses and deaths, now helping Ukraine too whilst still dealing with brexit, ever likely we’re in a mess…… When is the right time?
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Post by steve66 on Jun 21, 2022 11:17:57 GMT
It’s just not the right time to strike given the mess the country is in, we are in a vicious circle, workers left jobs during pandemic and companies are struggling to replace them, hence the airport farce, the government cannot win whatever they do, they paid furlough, they should of ignored covid and let everyone get on with their lives 😤 then we would have hell up with illnesses and deaths, now helping Ukraine too whilst still dealing with brexit, ever likely we’re in a mess…… There's never a right time for those that don't support the principle of workers striking, that's the long and short of it........ At last we agree, I’m just saying that economically now is probably imo the absolute wrong time for disrupting the nation, as several have pointed out there are milllions struggling at the moment who won’t/cannot strike
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Post by steve66 on Jun 21, 2022 11:18:53 GMT
It’s just not the right time to strike given the mess the country is in, we are in a vicious circle, workers left jobs during pandemic and companies are struggling to replace them, hence the airport farce, the government cannot win whatever they do, they paid furlough, they should of ignored covid and let everyone get on with their lives 😤 then we would have hell up with illnesses and deaths, now helping Ukraine too whilst still dealing with brexit, ever likely we’re in a mess…… When is the right time? See response to pp!
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 21, 2022 11:21:44 GMT
There's never a right time for those that don't support the principle of workers striking, that's the long and short of it........ At last we agree, I’m just saying that economically now is probably imo the absolute wrong time for disrupting the nation, as several have pointed out there are milllions struggling at the moment who won’t/cannot strike We don't agree, now is as good a time as any. The very fact that people are struggling but still prepared to sarcrifice a days pay speaks volumes.............
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