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Post by gawa on Jan 26, 2023 16:24:16 GMT
I think there are alot of people with short memories on here. Everyone is referencing the Reading game but not the fact that up till the end of October he was rated (in the threads posted by other members) as our second best player this season and also the best in October.
Unfortunately I couldn't be fucked continuing it past October as no one really took an interest but that's besides the point here.
The point I'm making is that he's not as bad as some suggest and I think injuries have particularly hindered him too.
Hes much better than some are giving him credit for on here and I'm not sure if some views are skewed due to members thinking he wants to leave despite no official source confirming such a thing.
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Post by mickstupp on Jan 26, 2023 16:29:04 GMT
The correct move, I thought it was an early April Fools joke when I read about this last night. The lads only been here for 10 minutes.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 26, 2023 17:04:17 GMT
I think there are alot of people with short memories on here. Everyone is referencing the Reading game but not the fact that up till the end of October he was rated (in the threads posted by other members) as our second best player this season and also the best in October. Unfortunately I couldn't be fucked continuing it past October as no one really took an interest but that's besides the point here. The point I'm making is that he's not as bad as some suggest and I think injuries have particularly hindered him too. Hes much better than some are giving him credit for on here and I'm not sure if some views are skewed due to members thinking he wants to leave despite no official source confirming such a thing. He's our best option to play CDM by a country mile. Far better than Baker physically, far better than Thompson technically.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jan 26, 2023 17:08:21 GMT
Paul Ince can get stuffed. Trying to unsettle a player and then push for a loan. Sod off
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Post by thevoid on Jan 26, 2023 18:41:48 GMT
He’s definitely not slim. I don't think he's fat, in AN's words his big and powerful....and that's what I think we need in our team, some 6ft plus monsters who can physically dominate games, the days of having a central midfielder at 5ft8 (welsh pirlo) who cant win a physical battle with a bowl of rice pudding are hopefully gone... Bring back the land of the giants to scfc... Look at how powerful Watford look against us all big athletic players all over the pitch.. Yes but Watford are skillful. They're not a bunch of hoofers and move the ball around well and at speed
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 26, 2023 18:50:11 GMT
I don't think he's fat, in AN's words his big and powerful....and that's what I think we need in our team, some 6ft plus monsters who can physically dominate games, the days of having a central midfielder at 5ft8 (welsh pirlo) who cant win a physical battle with a bowl of rice pudding are hopefully gone... Bring back the land of the giants to scfc... Look at how powerful Watford look against us all big athletic players all over the pitch.. Yes but Watford are skillful. They're not a bunch of hoofers and move the ball around well and at speed Why would you associate big players with being hoofers? Plenty of big players have had exqisite skill eg Cantona, Arnie, Parkin lol. If I was having smaller players they'd be on the flanks. I've no time for lightweights through the spine of your team.
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Post by iglugluk on Jan 26, 2023 18:54:08 GMT
Paul Ince can get stuffed. Trying to unsettle a player and then push for a loan. Sod off Score to settle after the disappointment his lad created here?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 27, 2023 9:40:39 GMT
If there was no truth in the rumour the club would have ignored it. If there was some truth in the rumour then they might have come out and said there's no truth in the rumour. The club said that their is little or no chance of what the rumour suggests might happen happening - which literally means the rumour is true and there is actually a chance it might happen. The only question is whether Laurent, Reading or both approached the club about him leaving and the original rumour suggests it was Laurent. I think Laurent is a decent player - we saw that Saturday - but if he wants out and we can get a more Neil type midfielder (big if this late in the window) then best for all concerned he leaves.If the player feels like he either made a mistake coming to the club or the club moved the goalposts by allowing changes to the working environment that he could not/does not want to adapt to a move should be facilitated whereby the club are not out of pocket financially ie in terms of what he was paid as a signing on fee would need to be returned. If the player is willing to give up that sort of money you've got to think his case is genuine. Very true - if that is what is written in his contract. If it isn't the player can either sulk and get sidelined until the club get a transfer (or his contract runs out) or he knuckles down and does his best for the club. I hope it's the latter - he's a decent player. With all the comings and goings there looks to be some turmoil behind the scenes and I'm sure some players know they haven't got a future at the club or have decided this isn't where they want to be. To be fair the club under Neil isn't going to the same as the one under O'Neil some players can legitimately claim what they are experiencing isn't what they signed up to. I just hope Neil can get sufficient players on board to see us through to the summer when he can get in the players he wants to properly reshape the squad the way he wants it.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 27, 2023 10:03:36 GMT
If the player feels like he either made a mistake coming to the club or the club moved the goalposts by allowing changes to the working environment that he could not/does not want to adapt to a move should be facilitated whereby the club are not out of pocket financially ie in terms of what he was paid as a signing on fee would need to be returned. If the player is willing to give up that sort of money you've got to think his case is genuine. Very true - if that is what is written in his contract. If it isn't the player can either sulk and get sidelined until the club get a transfer (or his contract runs out) or he knuckles down and does his best for the club. I hope it's the latter - he's a decent player. With all the comings and goings there looks to be some turmoil behind the scenes and I'm sure some players know they haven't got a future at the club or have decided this isn't where they want to be. To be fair the club under Neil isn't going to the same as the one under O'Neil some players can legitimately claim what they are experiencing isn't what they signed up to. I just hope Neil can get sufficient players on board to see us through to the summer when he can get in the players he wants to properly reshape the squad the way he wants it. That would be the club playing billy big bollox and sustaining a contract that would be detrimental to both parties. Why would they want to keep a very well paid unhappy player for another two and a half years if they could wash their hands of it without a financial detriment other than half a seasons wages? Whatever the contractual entitlements there is just the common sense decent human thing to solve a problem (if there is one, I’ve no idea) without either party being disadvantaged.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 27, 2023 10:11:39 GMT
Very true - if that is what is written in his contract. If it isn't the player can either sulk and get sidelined until the club get a transfer (or his contract runs out) or he knuckles down and does his best for the club. I hope it's the latter - he's a decent player. With all the comings and goings there looks to be some turmoil behind the scenes and I'm sure some players know they haven't got a future at the club or have decided this isn't where they want to be. To be fair the club under Neil isn't going to the same as the one under O'Neil some players can legitimately claim what they are experiencing isn't what they signed up to. I just hope Neil can get sufficient players on board to see us through to the summer when he can get in the players he wants to properly reshape the squad the way he wants it. That would be the club playing billy big bollox and sustaining a contract that would be detrimental to both parties. Why would they want to keep a very well paid unhappy player for another two and a half years if they could wash their hands of it without a financial detriment other than half a seasons wages? Whatever the contractual entitlements there is just the common sense decent human thing to solve a problem (if there is one, I’ve no idea) without either party being disadvantaged. That's my point - what you are saying only makes sense if there is a clause in the players contract that means he has to pay back any signing on fee - and you've admitted you've no idea if that's the case.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 27, 2023 16:48:03 GMT
That would be the club playing billy big bollox and sustaining a contract that would be detrimental to both parties. Why would they want to keep a very well paid unhappy player for another two and a half years if they could wash their hands of it without a financial detriment other than half a seasons wages? Whatever the contractual entitlements there is just the common sense decent human thing to solve a problem (if there is one, I’ve no idea) without either party being disadvantaged. That's my point - what you are saying only makes sense if there is a clause in the players contract that means he has to pay back any signing on fee - and you've admitted you've no idea if that's the case. There doesn't need to be a clause for two parties to agree on an exit that is least detrimental to both parties. What I'm saying I've got no idea about is whether there is a problem between Laurent and the club or the manager. I've even less than no idea what's in his contract, I just don't think it matters too much, contracts aren't written in blood.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 27, 2023 17:18:12 GMT
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Post by iglugluk on Jan 27, 2023 17:28:05 GMT
That's my point - what you are saying only makes sense if there is a clause in the players contract that means he has to pay back any signing on fee - and you've admitted you've no idea if that's the case. There doesn't need to be a clause for two parties to agree on an exit that is least detrimental to both parties. What I'm saying I've got no idea about is whether there is a problem between Laurent and the club or the manager. I've even less than no idea what's in his contract, I just don't think it matters too much, contracts aren't written in blood. Can you define 'even less than no idea'? Only out of interest like
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 27, 2023 17:59:35 GMT
There doesn't need to be a clause for two parties to agree on an exit that is least detrimental to both parties. What I'm saying I've got no idea about is whether there is a problem between Laurent and the club or the manager. I've even less than no idea what's in his contract, I just don't think it matters too much, contracts aren't written in blood. Can you define 'even less than no idea'? Only out of interest like Yeah I suppose I mean I can relate to the other possible issues even though I've got no knowledge of the specific situation. Changing jobs and thinking what the fuck have I done to myself here. Employers who think they're smart by moving the goalposts. Managers who you just can't fucking abide. Footballers contracts and signing on incentives etc etc I have absolutely no incling about whatsoever. If someone has in effect headhunted you and given you an incentive to sign a contract I just think it would be perfectly reasonable to give it back to them if you'd decided you'd made an error of judgement and wanted out and it would be perfectly decent for them to accept that and allow you to move on. Obviously if there were a transfer fee involved I can see why that wouldn't be possible and a club would be within their moral rights to at very least expect that fee to be recouped. Basically I don't agree with the current system and think every player should have an automatic release fee based on their transfer fee and wages, no one should ever have to remain in an employment situation with which they are not happy.
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Post by tejstokie on Jan 27, 2023 19:11:09 GMT
That's all I need to know. It's just Paul Ince getting back at us for lil' Ince's debilitating tenure here. Nothing more.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jan 27, 2023 20:00:17 GMT
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Post by iglugluk on Jan 27, 2023 20:55:31 GMT
Can you define 'even less than no idea'? Only out of interest like Yeah I suppose I mean I can relate to the other possible issues even though I've got no knowledge of the specific situation. Changing jobs and thinking what the fuck have I done to myself here. Employers who think they're smart by moving the goalposts. Managers who you just can't fucking abide. Footballers contracts and signing on incentives etc etc I have absolutely no incling about whatsoever. If someone has in effect headhunted you and given you an incentive to sign a contract I just think it would be perfectly reasonable to give it back to them if you'd decided you'd made an error of judgement and wanted out and it would be perfectly decent for them to accept that and allow you to move on. Obviously if there were a transfer fee involved I can see why that wouldn't be possible and a club would be within their moral rights to at very least expect that fee to be recouped. Basically I don't agree with the current system and think every player should have an automatic release fee based on their transfer fee and wages, no one should ever have to remain in an employment situation with which they are not happy. I was actually only joking about the state of one having less than no idea, but your answer deserves reply, I feel. A player can basically break their contract and just not turn up to work. At which point they would be cut loose by their Club, it seems to me. I certainly don't think they're slaves to their contract. I've never heard of a Club suing for reparations from a player if they down tools. Obviously if a player is unsettled by an approach from another Club and it leads to them leaving, then the Club they go to clearly has to compensate the player's existing Club.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 27, 2023 21:01:56 GMT
That's all I need to know. It's just Paul Ince getting back at us for lil' Ince's debilitating tenure here. Nothing more. Paul Ince is and always was a massive bell. The Guvner ffs.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 28, 2023 11:17:41 GMT
Yeah I suppose I mean I can relate to the other possible issues even though I've got no knowledge of the specific situation. Changing jobs and thinking what the fuck have I done to myself here. Employers who think they're smart by moving the goalposts. Managers who you just can't fucking abide. Footballers contracts and signing on incentives etc etc I have absolutely no incling about whatsoever. If someone has in effect headhunted you and given you an incentive to sign a contract I just think it would be perfectly reasonable to give it back to them if you'd decided you'd made an error of judgement and wanted out and it would be perfectly decent for them to accept that and allow you to move on. Obviously if there were a transfer fee involved I can see why that wouldn't be possible and a club would be within their moral rights to at very least expect that fee to be recouped. Basically I don't agree with the current system and think every player should have an automatic release fee based on their transfer fee and wages, no one should ever have to remain in an employment situation with which they are not happy. I was actually only joking about the state of one having less than no idea, but your answer deserves reply, I feel. A player can basically break their contract and just not turn up to work. At which point they would be cut loose by their Club, it seems to me. I certainly don't think they're slaves to their contract. I've never heard of a Club suing for reparations from a player if they down tools. Obviously if a player is unsettled by an approach from another Club and it leads to them leaving, then the Club they go to clearly has to compensate the player's existing Club. A player can down tools but that is a breach of contract - their club can legally get rid on those grounds. The OP is suggesting that a player should hand back any signing on fee if they decide they aren't happy. If that isn't in their contract then they are under no legal obligation to give it back - and why would they? They might decide to do it on moral grounds but the club has absolutely no right to expect them to if they haven't put it in the contract. A signing on fee is just that - a fee for signing on. Once the player has signed on they have fulfilled their part of the deal and the money is theirs. What the OP is describing is a retainer - money given to somebody on condition they stay - and that is returnable if they go. A contract I'd breakable but it still matters as it defines the parameters of what either party can expect in the event of a breakup.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 28, 2023 19:46:08 GMT
I was actually only joking about the state of one having less than no idea, but your answer deserves reply, I feel. A player can basically break their contract and just not turn up to work. At which point they would be cut loose by their Club, it seems to me. I certainly don't think they're slaves to their contract. I've never heard of a Club suing for reparations from a player if they down tools. Obviously if a player is unsettled by an approach from another Club and it leads to them leaving, then the Club they go to clearly has to compensate the player's existing Club. A player can down tools but that is a breach of contract - their club can legally get rid on those grounds. The OP is suggesting that a player should hand back any signing on fee if they decide they aren't happy. If that isn't in their contract then they are under no legal obligation to give it back - and why would they? They might decide to do it on moral grounds but the club has absolutely no right to expect them to if they haven't put it in the contract. A signing on fee is just that - a fee for signing on. Once the player has signed on they have fulfilled their part of the deal and the money is theirs. What the OP is describing is a retainer - money given to somebody on condition they stay - and that is returnable if they go. A contract I'd breakable but it still matters as it defines the parameters of what either party can expect in the event of a breakup. I don't think you get it at all. The unhappy player is not contractually obliged to pay back the signing on fee, neither is the club obliged to release the player or his registration to go and play for another club but if they both behave in a decent way to the other they can mutually agree to go their seperate ways without either fucking the other over. Ensuring neither has lost or gained from the arrangement over and above the club paying the player for the time he's been there. They could even ask him to return that or a proportion of it and a genuinely unhappy player would probably agree to do that so early in their contract that they'd signed but lived to regret doing so. Be that due to the employer making changes that altered his working environment or not. I can just imagine the conversation JL "I'm contractually entitled to keep the signing on fee you payed me because "I signed for you". Club OK Josh we're contractually entitled to hold your registration for the next two and a half years. Now fuck off and have a think about just how unhappy you are.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 28, 2023 20:35:10 GMT
A player can down tools but that is a breach of contract - their club can legally get rid on those grounds. The OP is suggesting that a player should hand back any signing on fee if they decide they aren't happy. If that isn't in their contract then they are under no legal obligation to give it back - and why would they? They might decide to do it on moral grounds but the club has absolutely no right to expect them to if they haven't put it in the contract. A signing on fee is just that - a fee for signing on. Once the player has signed on they have fulfilled their part of the deal and the money is theirs. What the OP is describing is a retainer - money given to somebody on condition they stay - and that is returnable if they go. A contract I'd breakable but it still matters as it defines the parameters of what either party can expect in the event of a breakup. I don't think you get it at all. The unhappy player is not contractually obliged to pay back the signing on fee, neither is the club obliged to release the player or his registration to go and play for another club but if they both behave in a decent way to the other they can mutually agree to go their seperate ways without either fucking the other over. Ensuring neither has lost or gained from the arrangement over and above the club paying the player for the time he's been there. They could even ask him to return that or a proportion of it and a genuinely unhappy player would probably agree to do that so early in their contract that they'd signed but lived to regret doing so. Be that due to the employer making changes that altered his working environment or not. I can just imagine the conversation JL "I'm contractually entitled to keep the signing on fee you payed me because "I signed for you". Club OK Josh we're contractually entitled to hold your registration for the next two and a half years. Now fuck off and have a think about just how unhappy you are. Playing Billy Big Bollox is perfectly feasible if you have big bollocks. Thing is ours have shrunk. So to complete your conversation: "Fair enough.Just keep paying me a salary you can only just afford and make do with an even smaller squad than you actually need while I keep fit and spend time with my agent to find a club that isn't in danger of getting relegated".
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 29, 2023 16:53:00 GMT
Seemed to be emotional when he scored. Maybe even tears. Wonder what that was all about?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2023 16:54:07 GMT
About the only good performance today I thought.
Capped by that beauty of a goal.
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Post by RF10 on Jan 29, 2023 16:54:38 GMT
Seemed to be emotional when he scored. Maybe even tears. Wonder what that was all about? Yeah bit odd that.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jan 29, 2023 16:55:13 GMT
Seemed to be emotional when he scored. Maybe even tears. Wonder what that was all about? Yea I Was hoping someone would know
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 29, 2023 17:07:55 GMT
Good to see a couple of really good performances in a row, keep it up Josh, there’s hope yet. You don’t score goals like today without having talent. It was a beauty
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Post by stokerstayinup on Jan 29, 2023 17:08:14 GMT
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Post by Glory Hunter on Jan 29, 2023 17:20:23 GMT
About the only good performance today I thought. Capped by that beauty of a goal. Several good performances today, Celina (till he tired), Wilmot (other than for the missed clearance when they scored), Ty (hard work throughout and efforts on target), Laurent of course (he’s going nowhere in this window and looks stringer and fitter now), Brown (tireless, good goal also - even though Bayern says he’s crap). Not sure which 10 min s3gment of the match you were watching Bayern!
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Jan 29, 2023 17:33:45 GMT
About the only good performance today I thought. Capped by that beauty of a goal. Several good performances today, Celina (till he tired), Wilmot (other than for the missed clearance when they scored), Ty (hard work throughout and efforts on target), Laurent of course (he’s going nowhere in this window and looks stringer and fitter now), Brown (tireless, good goal also - even though Bayern says he’s crap). Not sure which 10 min s3gment of the match you were watching Bayern! Thought we played well - Bayern is rarely happy Best game of Laurent's Stoke career for me. Wanted the ball, used it well, tracked and tackled well and his goal was fantastic
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Jan 29, 2023 18:09:27 GMT
So the emotion after the goal was apparently for his grandad in hospital
Lost my grandad this week, today was my first match without him
We’ll be with you Josh ♥️
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