|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 22, 2022 10:24:04 GMT
Is he the holding DM, Chief? And where does Nyambe play? Nyambe is a right back, think he'd be absolutely transformative if we genuinely have any chance of signing him. Sounds like Laurent can play any kind of midfield role, has a good engine and some steel. Hopefully we'll have him playing a disciplined role with Baker just ahead of him. Laurent isn't a specialist DM and he describes his best position as box to box so pretty much like Baker - a midfielder with an engine who can tackle and take the game to the opposition rather than sit and supplement the defence as per a traditional DM. Pretty much consistent with what MoN has said he wants from his midfielders. If both Baker and Laurent play my guess is they will sit just behind a more attacking midfielder but both will have licence to go forward. I'm not sure this signing is indicative of a change of approach. However if we sign Nyambe as a right back you may well be right in that it might well indicate a change of plan but we would then need a specialist left back as well and maybe even a specialist DM rather than make do with what we have.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 22, 2022 10:43:46 GMT
Nyambe is a right back, think he'd be absolutely transformative if we genuinely have any chance of signing him. Sounds like Laurent can play any kind of midfield role, has a good engine and some steel. Hopefully we'll have him playing a disciplined role with Baker just ahead of him. Laurent isn't a specialist DM and he describes his best position as box to box so pretty much like Baker - a midfielder with an engine who can tackle and take the game to the opposition rather than sit and supplement the defence as per a traditional DM. Pretty much consistent with what MoN has said he wants from his midfielders. If both Baker and Laurent play my guess is they will sit just behind a more attacking midfielder but both will have licence to go forward. I'm not sure this signing is indicative of a change of approach. However if we sign Nyambe as a right back you may well be right in that it might well indicate a change of plan but we would then need a specialist left back as well and maybe even a specialist DM rather than make do with what we have. I honestly don't know if we'll see a change of approach or not. People seem to think the signings indicate we'll be going with a back four, and Flint's arrival only makes sense if that's the case but I think the jury's very much still out. Laurent can play that defensive role though as well as being box-to-box and even a number 10 or a centre back. If I've understood Tachyon's analysis and what I've read from Reading journalists' analysis of him, the more defensive midfield role seems to have been his most effective role in his first season there. Players will often have roles they consider their best position but that doesn't always mean it is (see Walcott, Theo). The onus is on MON to harness the best qualities of Laurent and Baker to make an effective pairing - one of them is going to have to be disciplined even if he doesn't play as an out and out holding midfielder.
|
|
|
Post by scfc75 on Jun 22, 2022 10:48:16 GMT
You’d think that as a pairing, Laurent and Baker would (hopefully) learn to complement one another AND the attack… when needed, both can defend, or one can sit whilst the other plays more advanced to support the attack. Could potentially be difficult to play against if they’re interchangeable in that sense.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Jun 22, 2022 11:01:29 GMT
In reading about Laurent on Reading’s website I noted they are playing Benfica and West Ham in pre-season friendlies. We’re playing Cork, Accrington Stanley and Bristol Rovers. Where’s our ambition? To stay where we are as mediocre mid-table team or one that aspires to promotion? Aside from my other joking on this thread, I will say this. Nothing at all wrong with upping the quality of the competition. No matter where they are from. Whether or not we win/lose them doesn't matter. But I think our slow starts have something to do with this. Agree. However, playing Porto did result in the signing of Imbula.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 22, 2022 11:03:35 GMT
You’d think that as a pairing, Laurent and Baker would (hopefully) learn to complement one another AND the attack… when needed, both can defend, or one can sit whilst the other plays more advanced to support the attack. Could potentially be difficult to play against if they’re interchangeable in that sense. Definitely, although I'm not sure if I've ever seen that work in practice - is a bit Gerrard/Lampard if you don't assign the roles.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Jun 22, 2022 11:07:14 GMT
You’d think that as a pairing, Laurent and Baker would (hopefully) learn to complement one another AND the attack… when needed, both can defend, or one can sit whilst the other plays more advanced to support the attack. Could potentially be difficult to play against if they’re interchangeable in that sense. I can see them both playing as 8's with a holder in between them. Pretty much as we kicked off last season but last season we started with Powell and Vrancic as 8s.
|
|
|
Post by scfc75 on Jun 22, 2022 11:08:50 GMT
I watched him give Liverpool a torrid time in the cup and score against us. So i was disappointed and surprised he ended up at Reading. So when he was on the Shrewsbury released list it really was a no brainer to try and sign him. I don't give any credit to our recruitment team for this signing even I could have earmarked him.I guess credit to MON for making SCFC attractive to him and seemingly his mate Ty had a hand in the signing. Definitely a welcome addition and look forward to watching him play. You’re assuming that a) we didn’t enquire, and b) if we did, we would have been his first choice. To just assume we didn’t try because it wasn’t reported and/or we didn’t sign him is just lazy club-bashing.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Jun 22, 2022 11:36:26 GMT
You’d think that as a pairing, Laurent and Baker would (hopefully) learn to complement one another AND the attack… when needed, both can defend, or one can sit whilst the other plays more advanced to support the attack. Could potentially be difficult to play against if they’re interchangeable in that sense. I can see them both playing as 8's with a holder in between them. Pretty much as we kicked off last season but last season we started with Powell and Vrancic as 8s. And have Powell on the bench or would you be thinking diamond?
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 22, 2022 11:48:21 GMT
I can see them both playing as 8's with a holder in between them. Pretty much as we kicked off last season but last season we started with Powell and Vrancic as 8s. And have Powell on the bench or would you be thinking diamond? I think the mischievous suggestion is that Powell doesn't fit into a 433 and ergo should be binned off...
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Jun 22, 2022 11:50:27 GMT
I can see them both playing as 8's with a holder in between them. Pretty much as we kicked off last season but last season we started with Powell and Vrancic as 8s. And have Powell on the bench or would you be thinking diamond? Think Powell will start wide left if we go 433.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Jun 22, 2022 12:01:22 GMT
And have Powell on the bench or would you be thinking diamond? Think Powell will start wide left if we go 433. Hope not. Edit: Wilmot can “do a job” at right back, but he’s a central defender and should be played there. In the case of Powell. He’s far and away our best player. We shouldn’t be playing him in any position that isn’t his best. He is the player that the team should be built around.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 22, 2022 12:03:10 GMT
Think Powell will start wide left if we go 433. Hope not. If the grand plan is a midfield three of Laurent, Baker and a holder and Powell shoehorned on the left then the manager really should be asked to clear his desk today.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Jun 22, 2022 12:11:21 GMT
Think Powell will start wide left if we go 433. Hope not. Edit: Wilmot can “do a job” at right back, but he’s a central defender and should be played there. In the case of Powell. He’s far and away our best player. We shouldn’t be playing him in any position that isn’t his best. He is the player that the team should be built around. My guess might be miles off, and we might start off with a different system. We'll soon find out when the games get closer to kick off and the transfer business has been done. I'm with you. He's a 10. End of story.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 12:33:07 GMT
And have Powell on the bench or would you be thinking diamond? Think Powell will start wide left if we go 433. Although it shouldn't be Powell's best position I think he played some of his best games there for us season before last. Perhaps he gets a bit more space by drifting in from wide.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 22, 2022 13:20:02 GMT
Laurent isn't a specialist DM and he describes his best position as box to box so pretty much like Baker - a midfielder with an engine who can tackle and take the game to the opposition rather than sit and supplement the defence as per a traditional DM. Pretty much consistent with what MoN has said he wants from his midfielders. If both Baker and Laurent play my guess is they will sit just behind a more attacking midfielder but both will have licence to go forward. I'm not sure this signing is indicative of a change of approach. However if we sign Nyambe as a right back you may well be right in that it might well indicate a change of plan but we would then need a specialist left back as well and maybe even a specialist DM rather than make do with what we have. I honestly don't know if we'll see a change of approach or not. People seem to think the signings indicate we'll be going with a back four, and Flint's arrival only makes sense if that's the case but I think the jury's very much still out. Laurent can play that defensive role though as well as being box-to-box and even a number 10 or a centre back. If I've understood Tachyon's analysis and what I've read from Reading journalists' analysis of him, the more defensive midfield role seems to have been his most effective role in his first season there. Players will often have roles they consider their best position but that doesn't always mean it is (see Walcott, Theo). The onus is on MON to harness the best qualities of Laurent and Baker to make an effective pairing - one of them is going to have to be disciplined even if he doesn't play as an out and out holding midfielder. In terms of approach I don't know if we plan to change or not all I'm saying is that it isn't possible to say one way or another based on the Laurent signing. He may be able to play in a defensive midfield role but he isn't a specialist so there's no definitive evidence to say we are going to play with a DM. If we sign a specialist right back like Nyambe rather than a RWB then a change in approach would look more likely and that might include a specialist DM. In terms of Baker and Laurent playing together I really don't think it's a case of saying who will play the more defensive role. They both could play the box to box role with one or the other sitting if the other bombs forward and if we stick with a back five that to me looks the more likely option.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Jun 22, 2022 13:30:00 GMT
Think Powell will start wide left if we go 433. Hope not. Edit: Wilmot can “do a job” at right back, but he’s a central defender and should be played there. In the case of Powell. He’s far and away our best player. We shouldn’t be playing him in any position that isn’t his best. He is the player that the team should be built around. I’d like to see Powell us front with Brown in a 3-5-2, because that’s where he was most effective prior to his injury.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 22, 2022 13:35:52 GMT
If the grand plan is a midfield three of Laurent, Baker and a holder and Powell shoehorned on the left then the manager really should be asked to clear his desk today. Why would you shoehorn him on the left when he's better at playing the central striker role than anyone currently on our books?
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 22, 2022 13:39:23 GMT
Hope not. Edit: Wilmot can “do a job” at right back, but he’s a central defender and should be played there. In the case of Powell. He’s far and away our best player. We shouldn’t be playing him in any position that isn’t his best. He is the player that the team should be built around. I’d like to see Powell us front with Brown in a 3-5-2, because that’s where he was most effective prior to his injury. Powell is fairly effective where ever you play him in an offensive role. It's more a matter of playing him in the role that allows the others to function too. Unless we sign a target man he's the best target man we have.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 13:45:33 GMT
Think Powell will start wide left if we go 433. Hope not. Edit: Wilmot can “do a job” at right back, but he’s a central defender and should be played there. In the case of Powell. He’s far and away our best player. We shouldn’t be playing him in any position that isn’t his best. He is the player that the team should be built around. Not this 'build the team' around' nonsense again. Especially around one who is slightly (not massively) injury prone. Good players can play in various positions. People get too hung up on formations. Edit: wouldn't be surprised to see Powell leave. His wages must be easily the highest in the squad now (assuming Etebo and Afobe leave). Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying that's what I want. Powell is easily my favourite current player.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 13:49:27 GMT
If done well , will be hard to play against
We need to be able to break teams down at home ...even MoN has sussed onto this .
Hopefully this signing will help .
Not just tactically, but the more players in the team, who can keep their composure and put the ball away ( something Baker is good to at ) , the more goals you get .
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 13:51:21 GMT
Hope not. Edit: Wilmot can “do a job” at right back, but he’s a central defender and should be played there. In the case of Powell. He’s far and away our best player. We shouldn’t be playing him in any position that isn’t his best. He is the player that the team should be built around. Not this 'build the team' around' nonsense again. Especially around one who is slightly (not massively) injury prone. Good players can play in various positions. People get too hung up on formations. Edit: wouldn't be surprised to see Powell leave. His wages must be easily the highest in the squad now (assuming Etebo and Afobe leave). Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying that's what I want. Powell is easily my favourite current player. Agree...one of those daft clichés in football. Why would Powell be leaving though?
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 22, 2022 14:22:07 GMT
I honestly don't know if we'll see a change of approach or not. People seem to think the signings indicate we'll be going with a back four, and Flint's arrival only makes sense if that's the case but I think the jury's very much still out. Laurent can play that defensive role though as well as being box-to-box and even a number 10 or a centre back. If I've understood Tachyon's analysis and what I've read from Reading journalists' analysis of him, the more defensive midfield role seems to have been his most effective role in his first season there. Players will often have roles they consider their best position but that doesn't always mean it is (see Walcott, Theo). The onus is on MON to harness the best qualities of Laurent and Baker to make an effective pairing - one of them is going to have to be disciplined even if he doesn't play as an out and out holding midfielder. In terms of approach I don't know if we plan to change or not all I'm saying is that it isn't possible to say one way or another based on the Laurent signing. He may be able to play in a defensive midfield role but he isn't a specialist so there's no definitive evidence to say we are going to play with a DM. If we sign a specialist right back like Nyambe rather than a RWB then a change in approach would look more likely and that might include a specialist DM. In terms of Baker and Laurent playing together I really don't think it's a case of saying who will play the more defensive role. They both could play the box to box role with one or the other sitting if the other bombs forward and if we stick with a back five that to me looks the more likely option. I'm not disagreeing with you - I don't think I said at any stage on this thread that Laurent is likely to be used as a pure DM - MON has said more than once he doesn't believe in them. We'll still need someone who is disciplined and physical in the middle though and he appears to tick that box. That he's got experience playing that defensive role and playing it well and can play CB as well suggests to me (possibly wrongly) that he'll be the more defensive minded of the two. The 'one stays, one goes' approach is a good idea in theory but doesn't hugely work in practice, as mentioned it's Lampard/Gerrard if a manager doesn't step in and assign the roles.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 22, 2022 14:24:57 GMT
Hope not. Edit: Wilmot can “do a job” at right back, but he’s a central defender and should be played there. In the case of Powell. He’s far and away our best player. We shouldn’t be playing him in any position that isn’t his best. He is the player that the team should be built around. Not this 'build the team' around' nonsense again. Especially around one who is slightly (not massively) injury prone. Good players can play in various positions. People get too hung up on formations. Edit: wouldn't be surprised to see Powell leave. His wages must be easily the highest in the squad now (assuming Etebo and Afobe leave). Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying that's what I want. Powell is easily my favourite current player. Who are you referring to when you say 'good players can play in various positions'? Almost every player has a position they're markedly better in than any other and some of the best in the world have been hamstrung by being used incorrectly. Some of our better players in recent times have as well. Huth was excellent for us as a centre back, not so much as a right back. Ricardo Fuller's worst performances for us came when Pulis suddenly decided he could play on the wing. Formations are hugely important in getting the best out of your best players.
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Jun 22, 2022 14:33:35 GMT
The 'one stays, one goes' approach is a good idea in theory but doesn't hugely work in practice, as mentioned it's Lampard/Gerrard if a manager doesn't step in and assign the roles. Telling them what to do seems like the simplest thing you could need of a manager. But MON didn't even think about throw-in tactics for a season and a half and telling midfielders what to do was apparently beyond Capello so who knows.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 14:38:25 GMT
Not this 'build the team' around' nonsense again. Especially around one who is slightly (not massively) injury prone. Good players can play in various positions. People get too hung up on formations. Edit: wouldn't be surprised to see Powell leave. His wages must be easily the highest in the squad now (assuming Etebo and Afobe leave). Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying that's what I want. Powell is easily my favourite current player. Who are you referring to when you say 'good players can play in various positions'? Almost every player has a position they're markedly better in than any other and some of the best in the world have been hamstrung by being used incorrectly. Some of our better players in recent times have as well. Huth was excellent for us as a centre back, not so much as a right back. Ricardo Fuller's worst performances for us came when Pulis suddenly decided he could play on the wing. Formations are hugely important in getting the best out of your best players. If a formation suits the majority of your better players but means one plays slightly out of position I would go with that. I think Powell has had some of his best games playing on the left of a front three the season before last.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 14:50:08 GMT
Not this 'build the team' around' nonsense again. Especially around one who is slightly (not massively) injury prone. Good players can play in various positions. People get too hung up on formations. Edit: wouldn't be surprised to see Powell leave. His wages must be easily the highest in the squad now (assuming Etebo and Afobe leave). Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying that's what I want. Powell is easily my favourite current player. Agree...one of those daft clichés in football. Why would Powell be leaving though? I hope he isn't but he triggered his contract extension I believe so he will still be on pre covid money won't he? He must now be the highest earner by a bit of a distance?
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 22, 2022 15:00:23 GMT
Who are you referring to when you say 'good players can play in various positions'? Almost every player has a position they're markedly better in than any other and some of the best in the world have been hamstrung by being used incorrectly. Some of our better players in recent times have as well. Huth was excellent for us as a centre back, not so much as a right back. Ricardo Fuller's worst performances for us came when Pulis suddenly decided he could play on the wing. Formations are hugely important in getting the best out of your best players. If a formation suits the majority of your better players but means one plays slightly out of position I would go with that. I think Powell has had some of his best games playing on the left of a front three the season before last. It depends which player - Powell is one of our key players and we should be using a system that gets the best out of him. For me playing Powell on the left marginalises him. He’s scored goals from that position but is generally far less involved than when he’s central.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Jun 22, 2022 15:06:30 GMT
Who are you referring to when you say 'good players can play in various positions'? Almost every player has a position they're markedly better in than any other and some of the best in the world have been hamstrung by being used incorrectly. Some of our better players in recent times have as well. Huth was excellent for us as a centre back, not so much as a right back. Ricardo Fuller's worst performances for us came when Pulis suddenly decided he could play on the wing. Formations are hugely important in getting the best out of your best players. If a formation suits the majority of your better players but means one plays slightly out of position I would go with that. I think Powell has had some of his best games playing on the left of a front three the season before last. And if a formation (such as 4-2-3-1) suits all of your better players and is the best formation for your best player, that should be used. It’s madness to have one of the best 10s in the league and want to play that 10 on the wing or as a striker.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 16:26:46 GMT
If a formation suits the majority of your better players but means one plays slightly out of position I would go with that. I think Powell has had some of his best games playing on the left of a front three the season before last. And if a formation (such as 4-2-3-1) suits all of your better players and is the best formation for your best player, that should be used. It’s madness to have one of the best 10s in the league and want to play that 10 on the wing or as a striker. Do we really have the midfielders to play 4231? Both Baker & Laurent seem to box to box for me. We would be way to open and it's not going to happen under someone as cautious as O'Neill.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 22, 2022 16:36:55 GMT
And if a formation (such as 4-2-3-1) suits all of your better players and is the best formation for your best player, that should be used. It’s madness to have one of the best 10s in the league and want to play that 10 on the wing or as a striker. Do we really have the midfielders to play 4231? Both Baker & Laurent seem to box to box for me. We would be way to open and it's not going to happen under someone as cautious as O'Neill. Both Baker and Laurent have played more disciplined roles before though, Laurent in particular. Don’t see why you can’t ask one (probably Laurent) to sit?
|
|