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Post by superjw on Jul 15, 2024 11:59:17 GMT
Why? Southgate didn't. He proved he could relegate a team and then fail in U21 tournaments. I don't think Southgate should've got the job in the first place, although I commend him for how he turned things around, him staying in the role for so long has generally been a positive thing for England but I think he peaked in 2021 and doesn't look capable of going one step further.
Without a doubt he's one of the best England managers we've ever had, it's not been enough at the highest level though and I think he's well aware of that.
Potter is likely the best choice right now if we are to go with an Englishman, I'd have liked to see him be successful in the premier league or a top European league first though. If we go foreign then Klopp would be perfect, but I suspect he genuinely wants a break from football and won't be interested.
Personally, if the FA insist on another English manager we may as well stick with Southgate. There isn’t an English candidate that would surpass Southgate or has the winning mentality to do so.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 15, 2024 12:01:51 GMT
I think it'll be Howe
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England
Jul 15, 2024 12:04:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2024 12:04:14 GMT
That would be so depressing. Eddie and Jason with their special brand of 'head injury' cheating. Still, he smiles in all the right places and at the right times so I suppose he's a shoo-in.
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Post by thebasfordhedgehog on Jul 15, 2024 12:09:33 GMT
Spot Harry Kane’s empty trophy cabinet 😂
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England
Jul 15, 2024 12:09:54 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 15, 2024 12:09:54 GMT
Apart from a lot of that team are world class and play for the best clubs in the world. Certainly, I think the calibre of team/club that our starting XI play for compared to the Spanish is way superior. They were a team though, they were coached. Our u21s are the current u21 Euro Champions Foden won an u20 World Cup. The players are generally the best. The manager we have should struggle to get a job in League One. Agree with this. I think we got to where we are because of the players and not the manager. The shrinking back into ourselves after we equalised was so infuriating. We were on the front foot, with momentum and he completely stifled it. We have one of, if not the best squads in world football with talent in every position. A stronger coach would have us winning trophies. Southgate must go now. Hmmm, maybe. I agree that at a youth level we have winners, so what happens after that? Does the PL have something to do with it? Quite possibly, but it shouldn't do. If they were genuine world talents they'd be at all the big continental clubs. I hope I'm wrong and that the appointment of a new, better manager (I still think Southgate can hold his head up pretty high on his record to be fair) will produce what we all want to see, but I fear that we'll just be vilifying a new manager before long. The comparison with Stoke's managers latterly and our outcomes bears some relevance, ie mediocre managers trying to get the best out of mediocre players. Scale it up a bit (ie mediocre is harsh) and you get similar outcomes at a national level. The only way we'll really find out is if Klopp, Guardiola or Ancelotti took charge. Then we'd really know if it was the players or not. That I'd like to see!
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Post by werrington on Jul 15, 2024 12:13:27 GMT
Not that it's the major issue - but another report of Bellingham not being popular in the squad Daily Mail were saying something similar and was very arrogant ad not liked Here we go the media about to get stuck into any successful football player we’ve got ……it was never going to last was it? They hate any normal people from inner city backgrounds being successful…..Utter vermin they are
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Post by str8outtahampton on Jul 15, 2024 12:38:09 GMT
As gutted as I am I’m almost conditioned to England failing. And as perverse as it sounds I think it’s just part of a much bigger story which culminates in England winning the World Cup. It’s the Euros, the equivalent of the Carabao Cup. Nice to win but hardly the pinacle. We are now genuine contenders for the World Cup. Our mindset has shifted. Players are becoming battle hardened. The World Cup is coming home. I seriously doubt it is. The mantra that the next WC/Euros will be the one where England deliver is recurrent and has been rehearsed more often than I can remember. Put it a different way. My guess is that at the start of the tournament England were roughly 6-1 to win with Bet 365. In other words, the odds on a team other than England winning were around 1-6. I imagine Argentina and Brazil will make those odds longer/shorter in two years' time. Of course that's just betting. On the other hand, Denise Coates makes slightly less than £1m a day predicting the future.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 12:39:06 GMT
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Post by andystokey on Jul 15, 2024 12:39:06 GMT
To my eye the biggest difference between the teams wasn't player quality. It was a mindset about how, where and when to attack, individuals decision making was superior. Spain's press was one of the best I've ever seen. Their desire to play quickly one and two touch. They were better than tika taka Spain because they mixed it up, particularly out wide. I'd bet the number of forward passes as a percentage of possession was higher.
That domination of the ball makes it difficult to get behind them in numbers. Other than a couple of notable examples we were ponderous and robotic.
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Post by adri2008 on Jul 15, 2024 12:48:27 GMT
Not sure how Southgate can stay really? - rightly or wrongly, he's got fans/pundits with sky high (unrealistic?) expectations on his back questioning his every decision. I guess it depends if he gives a shit what people think but it must be difficult for him personally to just ignore all the noise.
My preference is for a fresh start but not hard to see a new manager getting worse results is it? - And will fans give a new manager time to mould the team to his style, I doubt it. International managers don't get that luxury.
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Post by senojbor on Jul 15, 2024 12:53:59 GMT
I personally think Southgate has to stay, there's no viable alternative. There's no question that Southgate has vastly improved or record in competitions
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England
Jul 15, 2024 13:13:38 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 15, 2024 13:13:38 GMT
I wouldnt be totally averse to Klopp if he wanted the job. Hes been in England for enough time to understand the players/culture/style of play. We just need to steer clear of a Capello type of appointment (i.e. big foreign name with good reputation but no idea how to handle the English players). Its clear that Southgate has had a massive effect on the mental side of english players in tournament football. We were too scared in the past. We need to keep that mentality but yes add a more attacking manager into it. Why would any world class managers want the job? Club football is where it's at. The England manager's job is a hiding to nothing. Less money, more hassle
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 15, 2024 13:21:20 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 15, 2024 13:25:27 GMT
www.thetimes.com/article/bc473c80-2d21-4d9b-bfb0-98364eb22e6c?shareToken=9d4427553dc604389f30499c0eabd81bThe Times understands that Newcastle United manager Howe is of serious interest although the FA would have to seek permission from Newcastle to speak to him. While that would mean a potentially expensive compensation payout to the 46-year-old’s Saudi employers, sources believe an agreement could be reached. News last week of Amanda Staveley’s imminent departure from Newcastle certainly enhances the FA’s chances of luring Howe to Wembley. Staveley is selling her minority stake, but she was a central figure in Howe’s appointment and has been his main point of contact with Newcastle’s owners.
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Post by stokiejoe89 on Jul 15, 2024 13:25:45 GMT
Howe and Potter 🤣🤣 jesus christ
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England
Jul 15, 2024 13:39:28 GMT
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 15, 2024 13:39:28 GMT
I wouldnt be totally averse to Klopp if he wanted the job. Hes been in England for enough time to understand the players/culture/style of play. We just need to steer clear of a Capello type of appointment (i.e. big foreign name with good reputation but no idea how to handle the English players). Its clear that Southgate has had a massive effect on the mental side of english players in tournament football. We were too scared in the past. We need to keep that mentality but yes add a more attacking manager into it. Why would any world class managers want the job? Club football is where it's at. The England manager's job is a hiding to nothing. Less money, more hassle The salary would rival all but the absolute elite club managers’. And considering you’re only actually working with the team about six weeks a year I’m not sure “more hassle” holds much water either
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jul 15, 2024 13:46:00 GMT
Howe and Potter 🤣🤣 jesus christ If we get Brighton Potter and not rollneck Chelsea Potter, I think it could work. Has a better managerial CV than Southgate had before getting the job and seems very Southgate-like in his ways. I don't see Howe working out as an England manager. Pochettino might not be a bad shout as he knows the English game, but I'd have the "never won anything" whirring at the back of my mind. Not that I'm expecting a serial winner to get the gig, it's just that "Spursy" thing follows Poch around and although it's tongue-in-cheek, it is a bit of a thing.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 13:46:04 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 15, 2024 13:46:04 GMT
Why would any world class managers want the job? Club football is where it's at. The England manager's job is a hiding to nothing. Less money, more hassle The salary would rival all but the absolute elite club managers’. And considering you’re only actually working with the team about six weeks a year I’m not sure “more hassle” holds much water either Dyche is on 5 million and Thomas Frank is on 4.5 million. Anything above that is crazy - Ten Hag is on 9 million.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 15, 2024 13:46:48 GMT
The salary would rival all but the absolute elite club managers’. And considering you’re only actually working with the team about six weeks a year I’m not sure “more hassle” holds much water either Dyche is on 5 million and Thomas Frank is on 4.5 million. Anything above that is crazy - Ten Hag is on 9 million. Isn't Southgate on 5.8 million ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2024 13:47:04 GMT
Has the opportunity now passed us by for a while to get a trophy? Spain look like a revitalized side and Germany are bouncing back. England have several excellent youngsters but it seems like the bigger Nations are starting to rally.
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Post by smallthorner on Jul 15, 2024 13:49:52 GMT
Howe and Potter 🤣🤣 jesus christ Jesus is already lined up for the Brasil job. They've already built a statue of him actually.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 13:51:33 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 15, 2024 13:51:33 GMT
Dyche is on 5 million and Thomas Frank is on 4.5 million. Anything above that is crazy - Ten Hag is on 9 million. Isn't Southgate on 5.8 million ? Thought it was 5. Either way, he's a lucky shit. Only my opinion.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 14:13:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2024 14:13:11 GMT
I completely disagree with the idea of non-English citizens coaching and managing English teams. I think that National teams should be completely made up of individuals from that Nation, regardless of whether someone better is available or not. They don’t have to be born there, but they do need to be a citizen.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 14:14:56 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 15, 2024 14:14:56 GMT
I completely disagree with the idea of non-English citizens coaching and managing English teams. I think that National teams should be completely made up of individuals from that Nation, regardless of whether someone better is available or not. They don’t have to be born there, but they do need to be a citizen. Worked for the women.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 14:16:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2024 14:16:39 GMT
I completely disagree with the idea of non-English citizens coaching and managing English teams. I think that National teams should be completely made up of individuals from that Nation, regardless of whether someone better is available or not. They don’t have to be born there, but they do need to be a citizen. Worked for the women. Like I said, there can be better available. In my mind, it doesn’t mean that they should go for them. I just think that a National team should be comprised top-to-bottom with people from that Nation.
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Post by moon on Jul 15, 2024 14:27:32 GMT
Has the opportunity now passed us by for a while to get a trophy? Spain look like a revitalized side and Germany are bouncing back. England have several excellent youngsters but it seems like the bigger Nations are starting to rally. I don't think so, we've got a load of great younger players coming through. Perhaps it was the last or penultimate tournament for Walker, Trippier, possibly Kane (although I suspect he's got another tournament in him and I'm sure he's still much better than he showed this tournament where he shouldn't really have been starting). It's not like we have a squad full of players in their 30s.
Man for man I think we have a squad as good as any other nation and there's still some quality (although perhaps out of form) players who didn't even make the squad this time around such as Grealish, Rashford, Sancho, Quansah, Braithwaite, Maddison and plenty of prospects in the u21s too. Perhaps we're missing a longer term replacement for Kane, but otherwise I think there is an abundance of quality in all positions, and I think Toney and Watkins are decent options for the next two tournaments.
We're competing for trophies and we've come very close, I think the only thing England lack is belief, in Southgate I see a man who hopes rather than one who truly believes. It was disappointing last night and will be for a while, but the future is still very bright for this squad.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 15, 2024 14:30:39 GMT
Not that it's the major issue - but another report of Bellingham not being popular in the squad Daily Mail were saying something similar and was very arrogant ad not liked Here we go the media about to get stuck into any successful football player we’ve got ……it was never going to last was it? They hate any normal people from inner city backgrounds being successful…..Utter vermin they are Does it matter if he isn't super popular in the dressing room anyway? Professionals aren't bothered about those things. Gutter press. It was known Andy Cole and Edward Sheringham never spoke to each other. Emlyn Hughes was unpopular in the Liverpool dressing room. Roger Daltrey and Pete Townsend didn't speak for years.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 14:31:40 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 15, 2024 14:31:40 GMT
Like I said, there can be better available. In my mind, it doesn’t mean that they should go for them. I just think that a National team should be comprised top-to-bottom with people from that Nation. Respect your view. However, in a world where kids and grandkids can play or citizenship can be rushed through, the water soon becomes pretty muddy.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 14:36:06 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 15, 2024 14:36:06 GMT
www.thetimes.com/article/bc473c80-2d21-4d9b-bfb0-98364eb22e6c?shareToken=9d4427553dc604389f30499c0eabd81bThe Times understands that Newcastle United manager Howe is of serious interest although the FA would have to seek permission from Newcastle to speak to him. While that would mean a potentially expensive compensation payout to the 46-year-old’s Saudi employers, sources believe an agreement could be reached. News last week of Amanda Staveley’s imminent departure from Newcastle certainly enhances the FA’s chances of luring Howe to Wembley. Staveley is selling her minority stake, but she was a central figure in Howe’s appointment and has been his main point of contact with Newcastle’s owners. Think it would work well for both sides. The Arabs can get in a foreign galactic manager and Howe can leave without being sacked
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Post by superjw on Jul 15, 2024 15:13:07 GMT
Has the opportunity now passed us by for a while to get a trophy? Spain look like a revitalized side and Germany are bouncing back. England have several excellent youngsters but it seems like the bigger Nations are starting to rally. I don't think so, we've got a load of great younger players coming through. Perhaps it was the last or penultimate tournament for Walker, Trippier, possibly Kane (although I suspect he's got another tournament in him and I'm sure he's still much better than he showed this tournament where he shouldn't really have been starting). It's not like we have a squad full of players in their 30s.
Man for man I think we have a squad as good as any other nation and there's still some quality (although perhaps out of form) players who didn't even make the squad this time around such as Grealish, Rashford, Sancho, Quansah, Braithwaite, Maddison and plenty of prospects in the u21s too. Perhaps we're missing a longer term replacement for Kane, but otherwise I think there is an abundance of quality in all positions, and I think Toney and Watkins are decent options for the next two tournaments.
We're competing for trophies and we've come very close, I think the only thing England lack is belief, in Southgate I see a man who hopes rather than one who truly believes. It was disappointing last night and will be for a while, but the future is still very bright for this squad.
Whilst I do agree with you that we have some great talent, your statement is basically the rinse and repeat after every major tournament for years. It’s not necessarily the players as such, we have had quality players for a couple of decades now. It’s the mentality that is the problem and manager changes hardly ever cut it, but equally Southgate has been a massive issue in the past 2 tournaments. It’s so similar to Stokes demise really, the players rarely the issue - there is a deep rooted issue that stops us from winning.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 15, 2024 15:30:06 GMT
Has the opportunity now passed us by for a while to get a trophy? Spain look like a revitalized side and Germany are bouncing back. England have several excellent youngsters but it seems like the bigger Nations are starting to rally. I don't think so, we've got a load of great younger players coming through. Perhaps it was the last or penultimate tournament for Walker, Trippier, possibly Kane (although I suspect he's got another tournament in him and I'm sure he's still much better than he showed this tournament where he shouldn't really have been starting). It's not like we have a squad full of players in their 30s.
Man for man I think we have a squad as good as any other nation and there's still some quality (although perhaps out of form) players who didn't even make the squad this time around such as Grealish, Rashford, Sancho, Quansah, Braithwaite, Maddison and plenty of prospects in the u21s too. Perhaps we're missing a longer term replacement for Kane, but otherwise I think there is an abundance of quality in all positions, and I think Toney and Watkins are decent options for the next two tournaments. We're competing for trophies and we've come very close, I think the only thing England lack is belief, in Southgate I see a man who hopes rather than one who truly believes. It was disappointing last night and will be for a while, but the future is still very bright for this squad.
this in a nutshell
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