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Post by theonlooker on May 23, 2022 7:20:47 GMT
Wasn't it a bit more nuanced than that? He had a year left on his expensive deal last summer didn't he, and had a window of opportunity where he could break from it and leave for free? Wasn't it the case that Stoke gave him an extra year, quite possibly on much reduced terms to ease FFP issues because he couldn't find a free move? Could be something like that but either way we are stuck with him. I guess he probably doesn’t want to be here and it’s unlikely he’ll be a regular starter. He didn’t look arsed when he featured last season to a point where you didn’t actually realise he was on the pitch! Agree with all that but I don't think it's a facet of the managers transfer policy, just yet more layers of financial shit he's had to wade through.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 23, 2022 7:29:21 GMT
Selhurst Park and The Hawthorns are both smaller grounds than the Brit, even pre-South Stand corner. West Brom averaged two thousand more than us this season having an almost as disappointing season after a bright start. If you don't fill your ground capacity is irrelevant. We are not in the top 25 attendances for the season with division 1 clubs, Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday above us. EDIT and Sunderland obviously Already explained how difficult it it to fill all seater stadia to capacity. If you’re around 90% the reality is you’ve sold out of tickets that would appeal to most folk. That should be built into your calculations when considering whether your capacity is sufficient. We’d been at a level where it was clear we needed to extend capacity for years but like everything else they were over cautious only getting around to it whilst at the same time taking top tier football for granted.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 23, 2022 8:33:44 GMT
West Brom averaged two thousand more than us this season having an almost as disappointing season after a bright start. If you don't fill your ground capacity is irrelevant. We are not in the top 25 attendances for the season with division 1 clubs, Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday above us. EDIT and Sunderland obviously Already explained how difficult it it to fill all seater stadia to capacity. If you’re around 90% the reality is you’ve sold out of tickets that would appeal to most folk. That should be built into your calculations when considering whether your capacity is sufficient. We’d been at a level where it was clear we needed to extend capacity for years but like everything else they were over cautious only getting around to it whilst at the same time taking top tier football for granted. Which implies West Brom would have even higher crowds than us if their stadium had our capacity. There is no problem at Stoke getting seats together. In fact the bloke with a season ticket next to me has hardly sat in it this season as he swaps it to sit together with his son and granddaughter in the Boothen and has no problem however late he leaves it to get 3 seats together.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 23, 2022 15:08:54 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-romaine-sawyers-7117945Stoke City are expected to to keep Romaine Sawyers in their transfer thoughts this summer after the midfielder was released by West Bromwich Albion.
Sawyers enjoyed his season on loan at Stoke and Stoke coaches believed he fitted in well. The 30-year-old midfielder was missed when he suffered a quad injury in December which ruled him out for the best part of three months.
Michael O'Neill is hoping to tinker with the balance of his midfield department over the next few weeks and a move for Sawyers might depend on how that takes shape. Stoke already have attack-minded midfielders on their books in Lewis Baker, Sam Clucas, Nick Powell and Mario Vrancic.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on May 23, 2022 15:19:18 GMT
Great
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 23, 2022 15:24:06 GMT
Already explained how difficult it it to fill all seater stadia to capacity. If you’re around 90% the reality is you’ve sold out of tickets that would appeal to most folk. That should be built into your calculations when considering whether your capacity is sufficient. We’d been at a level where it was clear we needed to extend capacity for years but like everything else they were over cautious only getting around to it whilst at the same time taking top tier football for granted. Which implies West Brom would have even higher crowds than us if their stadium had our capacity. There is no problem at Stoke getting seats together. In fact the bloke with a season ticket next to me has hardly sat in it this season as he swaps it to sit together with his son and granddaughter in the Boothen and has no problem however late he leaves it to get 3 seats together. Why would there be a problem now our capacity is way above what we need at the moment. We were talking premier league days and measure to grow the club and it’s supporter base. The club has now regressed to a level similar to when Coates returned. That wasn’t an inevitability it was rank bad management .
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Post by xchpotter on May 23, 2022 15:24:48 GMT
Sam Clucas attack minded? 🤣🤣
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2022 15:33:42 GMT
Sam Clucas attack minded? 🤣🤣 Not passing wise but he definitely likes to make runs into the box and scores a decent amount of goals.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 23, 2022 16:36:18 GMT
Which implies West Brom would have even higher crowds than us if their stadium had our capacity. There is no problem at Stoke getting seats together. In fact the bloke with a season ticket next to me has hardly sat in it this season as he swaps it to sit together with his son and granddaughter in the Boothen and has no problem however late he leaves it to get 3 seats together. Why would there be a problem now our capacity is way above what we need at the moment. We were talking premier league days and measure to grow the club and it’s supporter base. The club has now regressed to a level similar to when Coates returned. That wasn’t an inevitability it was rank bad management . I am talking faithful fan base not Premier League fan base. Stoke's faithful fan base is lower than a lot of other similar sized clubs and I suspect once the novelty of Premier football wore off so too would a lot of ticket sales regardless of relegation. Admittedly four poor seasons has decimated those numbers further but we wouldn't attract the 25000-30000 that Derby, Sunderland, Middelsborough and Forest regularly attract outside the Premier. Never have.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 23, 2022 17:06:50 GMT
Why would there be a problem now our capacity is way above what we need at the moment. We were talking premier league days and measure to grow the club and it’s supporter base. The club has now regressed to a level similar to when Coates returned. That wasn’t an inevitability it was rank bad management . I am talking faithful fan base not Premier League fan base. Stoke's faithful fan base is lower than a lot of other similar sized clubs and I suspect once the novelty of Premier football wore off so too would a lot of ticket sales regardless of relegation. Admittedly four poor seasons has decimated those numbers further but we wouldn't attract the 25000-30000 that Derby, Sunderland, Middelsborough and Forest regularly attract outside the Premier. Never have. I wouldn’t differentiate between types of fan anyone who might be persuaded to attend games is of our fan base they’re all there for the club to meet their ambitions and expectations. I don’t buy into the idea their is anything cyclical about it. If the owners had maintained their level of commitment and enthusiasm there was no reason for us to get relegated with the resources available to them. They tried to be cute and it’s cost them far more than they would have needed to invest to maintain our status. We’ve already seen the possibility to grow the club far beyond where it is now and I’d argue the evidence was there that it could have been grown further still.
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Post by pushon on May 23, 2022 17:11:23 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-romaine-sawyers-7117945Stoke City are expected to to keep Romaine Sawyers in their transfer thoughts this summer after the midfielder was released by West Bromwich Albion.
Sawyers enjoyed his season on loan at Stoke and Stoke coaches believed he fitted in well. The 30-year-old midfielder was missed when he suffered a quad injury in December which ruled him out for the best part of three months.
Michael O'Neill is hoping to tinker with the balance of his midfield department over the next few weeks and a move for Sawyers might depend on how that takes shape. Stoke already have attack-minded midfielders on their books in Lewis Baker, Sam Clucas, Nick Powell and Mario Vrancic. I wonder if Sawyers is being considered as Joe Allen's replacement🤔 I realise that he looked a bit "nesh" in the tackling department, but perhaps he was instructed to keep out of the way. I'm pretty certain that I've seen somewhere (on here?) that he was an effective "holding" midfielder during his time at Brenford.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 23, 2022 17:25:37 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-romaine-sawyers-7117945Stoke City are expected to to keep Romaine Sawyers in their transfer thoughts this summer after the midfielder was released by West Bromwich Albion.
Sawyers enjoyed his season on loan at Stoke and Stoke coaches believed he fitted in well. The 30-year-old midfielder was missed when he suffered a quad injury in December which ruled him out for the best part of three months.
Michael O'Neill is hoping to tinker with the balance of his midfield department over the next few weeks and a move for Sawyers might depend on how that takes shape. Stoke already have attack-minded midfielders on their books in Lewis Baker, Sam Clucas, Nick Powell and Mario Vrancic. I wonder if Sawyers is being considered as Joe Allen's replacement🤔 I realise that he looked a bit "nesh" in the tackling department, but perhaps he was instructed to keep out of the way. I'm pretty certain that I've seen somewhere (on here?) that he was an effective "holding" midfielder during his time at Brenford. Is this a joke? He doesn’t tackle or challenge for headers. Sounds like an idea to make a shit situation even worse.
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Post by thevoid on May 23, 2022 18:30:57 GMT
Why would there be a problem now our capacity is way above what we need at the moment. We were talking premier league days and measure to grow the club and it’s supporter base. The club has now regressed to a level similar to when Coates returned. That wasn’t an inevitability it was rank bad management . I am talking faithful fan base not Premier League fan base. Stoke's faithful fan base is lower than a lot of other similar sized clubs and I suspect once the novelty of Premier football wore off so too would a lot of ticket sales regardless of relegation. Admittedly four poor seasons has decimated those numbers further but we wouldn't attract the 25000-30000 that Derby, Sunderland, Middelsborough and Forest regularly attract outside the Premier. Never have. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-middlesbrough/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/641Middlesbrough's gates certainly don't seem to regularly hit 25-30,000 in the Championship- maybe there's the odd 'peak' for a promotion/play off campaign but nothing consistent. It's interesting that Forest, Derby and Ipswich kept a good core support outside the top flight but two of those clubs aren't hamstrung by having a city rival (if no Fail we could add another 3-4,000 to our core support). My theory is that clubs who've had a relatively long successful period (Ipswich under Robson, Derby and Forest under Clough) tend to grow and keep a more loyal fanbase, whereas the likes of ourselves, Birmingham and Boro have a more fickle, fluctuating support as we haven't had a sustained spell of success to fall back on, even in our so called 'golden years'.
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Post by pieofpeter on May 23, 2022 18:42:55 GMT
I'd give him a one year prove it take it or leave it deal. Can see him coming here actually.
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Post by pushon on May 23, 2022 18:46:29 GMT
I wonder if Sawyers is being considered as Joe Allen's replacement🤔 I realise that he looked a bit "nesh" in the tackling department, but perhaps he was instructed to keep out of the way. I'm pretty certain that I've seen somewhere (on here?) that he was an effective "holding" midfielder during his time at Brenford. Is this a joke? He doesn’t tackle or challenge for headers. Sounds like an idea to make a shit situation even worse. Oh ok, I must have a mistaken impression of his time with Brenford, a pretty shit player all around the pitch then,eh?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 23, 2022 19:50:19 GMT
I am talking faithful fan base not Premier League fan base. Stoke's faithful fan base is lower than a lot of other similar sized clubs and I suspect once the novelty of Premier football wore off so too would a lot of ticket sales regardless of relegation. Admittedly four poor seasons has decimated those numbers further but we wouldn't attract the 25000-30000 that Derby, Sunderland, Middelsborough and Forest regularly attract outside the Premier. Never have. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-middlesbrough/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/641Middlesbrough's gates certainly don't seem to regularly hit 25-30,000 in the Championship- maybe there's the odd 'peak' for a promotion/play off campaign but nothing consistent. It's interesting that Forest, Derby and Ipswich kept a good core support outside the top flight but two of those clubs aren't hamstrung by having a city rival (if no Fail we could add another 3-4,000 to our core support). My theory is that clubs who've had a relatively long successful period (Ipswich under Robson, Derby and Forest under Clough) tend to grow and keep a more loyal fanbase, whereas the likes of ourselves, Birmingham and Boro have a more fickle, fluctuating support as we haven't had a sustained spell of success to fall back on, even in our so called 'golden years'. Certainly Forest and Derby have won more than us, don’t know about Ipswich even under Robson weren’t they just nearly men? There’s far less choice in that area you’re either Ipswich or Norwich or having a long drive.
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Post by potterburt on May 23, 2022 20:01:09 GMT
Sam Clucas attack minded? 🤣🤣 It was a typo, it was meant to read ‘ absent minded’
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Post by Veritas on May 23, 2022 20:01:19 GMT
www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-middlesbrough/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/641Middlesbrough's gates certainly don't seem to regularly hit 25-30,000 in the Championship- maybe there's the odd 'peak' for a promotion/play off campaign but nothing consistent. It's interesting that Forest, Derby and Ipswich kept a good core support outside the top flight but two of those clubs aren't hamstrung by having a city rival (if no Fail we could add another 3-4,000 to our core support). My theory is that clubs who've had a relatively long successful period (Ipswich under Robson, Derby and Forest under Clough) tend to grow and keep a more loyal fanbase, whereas the likes of ourselves, Birmingham and Boro have a more fickle, fluctuating support as we haven't had a sustained spell of success to fall back on, even in our so called 'golden years'. Certainly Forest and Derby have won more than us, don’t know about Ipswich even under Robson weren’t they just nearly men? There’s far less choice in that area you’re either Ipswich or Norwich or having a long drive. Ipswich League Champions 1962 with Alf Ramsey, runners up 1981, 1982 FA cup 1978 EUFA Cup 1981
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 23, 2022 20:02:15 GMT
Is this a joke? He doesn’t tackle or challenge for headers. Sounds like an idea to make a shit situation even worse. Oh ok, I must have a mistaken impression of his time with Brenford, a pretty shit player all around the pitch then,eh? Got an eye for a pass but personally think you need more than that to your game. Don’t even mind a creative player being a bit of a pussy but he takes it to another level. Complete and utter non combatant.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 23, 2022 20:07:44 GMT
Certainly Forest and Derby have won more than us, don’t know about Ipswich even under Robson weren’t they just nearly men? There’s far less choice in that area you’re either Ipswich or Norwich or having a long drive. Ipswich League Champions 1962 with Alf Ramsey, runners up 1981, 1982 FA cup 1978 EUFA Cup 1981 Yeah comfortably more than us then would be the runners up 81, 82 that stood out in my memory for me to say nearly men. They must have been pretty handy I still remember a few of their players. Cooper, Muhren? Thysen? Marriner, Wark. Wonder how many of our players their fans remember lol.
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Post by s7oke on May 23, 2022 20:17:13 GMT
Where does all this leave us with TOB ?
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Post by lordb on May 23, 2022 20:19:58 GMT
www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-middlesbrough/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/641Middlesbrough's gates certainly don't seem to regularly hit 25-30,000 in the Championship- maybe there's the odd 'peak' for a promotion/play off campaign but nothing consistent. It's interesting that Forest, Derby and Ipswich kept a good core support outside the top flight but two of those clubs aren't hamstrung by having a city rival (if no Fail we could add another 3-4,000 to our core support). My theory is that clubs who've had a relatively long successful period (Ipswich under Robson, Derby and Forest under Clough) tend to grow and keep a more loyal fanbase, whereas the likes of ourselves, Birmingham and Boro have a more fickle, fluctuating support as we haven't had a sustained spell of success to fall back on, even in our so called 'golden years'. Certainly Forest and Derby have won more than us, don’t know about Ipswich even under Robson weren’t they just nearly men? There’s far less choice in that area you’re either Ipswich or Norwich or having a long drive. Ipswich have won the League, the FA Cup and the UEFA Cup (when that was a far harder trophy ro win than the Europa League is now)
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 23, 2022 20:26:41 GMT
Certainly Forest and Derby have won more than us, don’t know about Ipswich even under Robson weren’t they just nearly men? There’s far less choice in that area you’re either Ipswich or Norwich or having a long drive. Ipswich have won the League, the FA Cup and the UEFA Cup (when that was a far harder trophy ro win than the Europa League is now) Already acknowledged someone telling me that. I had no knowledge of their league title as I wasn’t even born and Robsons team always seemed like they did well without winning anything but they obviously did win the odd thing.
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Post by Veritas on May 23, 2022 20:31:24 GMT
Ipswich League Champions 1962 with Alf Ramsey, runners up 1981, 1982 FA cup 1978 EUFA Cup 1981 Yeah comfortably more than us then would be the runners up 81, 82 that stood out in my memory for me to say nearly men. They must have been pretty handy I still remember a few of their players. Cooper, Muhren? Thysen? Marriner, Wark. Wonder how many of our players their fans remember lol. Also Kevin Beattie, what a player, and also don't let us forget Mick Mills & George Burley at full backs.
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borges
Academy Starlet
Posts: 104
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Post by borges on May 23, 2022 20:58:23 GMT
And since we were both relegated in 2018, West Brom have finished in the play-offs, gone up automatically and had a season in the prem... meanwhile we've had our four lowest league finishes in the last 20 years. And Ipswich? Have averaged less than us since 2008?
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 23, 2022 21:02:44 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-romaine-sawyers-7117945Stoke City are expected to to keep Romaine Sawyers in their transfer thoughts this summer after the midfielder was released by West Bromwich Albion.
Sawyers enjoyed his season on loan at Stoke and Stoke coaches believed he fitted in well. The 30-year-old midfielder was missed when he suffered a quad injury in December which ruled him out for the best part of three months.
Michael O'Neill is hoping to tinker with the balance of his midfield department over the next few weeks and a move for Sawyers might depend on how that takes shape. Stoke already have attack-minded midfielders on their books in Lewis Baker, Sam Clucas, Nick Powell and Mario Vrancic. I wonder if Sawyers is being considered as Joe Allen's replacement🤔 I realise that he looked a bit "nesh" in the tackling department, but perhaps he was instructed to keep out of the way. I'm pretty certain that I've seen somewhere (on here?) that he was an effective "holding" midfielder during his time at Brenford. What manager tells his players to get out of the way
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Post by mtrstudent on May 23, 2022 22:44:04 GMT
Oh ok, I must have a mistaken impression of his time with Brenford, a pretty shit player all around the pitch then,eh? Got an eye for a pass but personally think you need more than that to your game. Don’t even mind a creative player being a bit of a pussy but he takes it to another level. Complete and utter non combatant. If Powell is a 7/10 presser, Vrancic is a 5 at best and Sawyers a 1 or 2. Sawyers is a good footballer but we'd need really aggressive defensive play from everyone else to compensate. It just doesn't make sense to me when we have Powell and Vrancic on the books.
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Post by Gods on May 23, 2022 22:53:09 GMT
Yeah comfortably more than us then would be the runners up 81, 82 that stood out in my memory for me to say nearly men. They must have been pretty handy I still remember a few of their players. Cooper, Muhren? Thysen? Marriner, Wark. Wonder how many of our players their fans remember lol. Also Kevin Beattie, what a player, and also don't let us forget Mick Mills & George Burley at full backs. Plus the small matter of Terry Butcher. Kevin Beattie and Terry Butcher, I mean that wasn't too shabby a defensive partnership!!
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Post by nottsover60 on May 23, 2022 23:23:25 GMT
Have averaged less than us since 2008? Averaged more than us this season just finished and more than us in 19/20 according to Transfermarkt allbeit very similar numbers. Consider that they are playing a division below us and haven't been in the Premier for twenty seasons. Can you imagine Stoke would be pulling in 20000 in division 1? Last time we were there we averaged about 15000, roughly the same as we did in the Championship pre our promotion to the Premier, even in the season we got promoted it was only 16000. If we stay in the Championship for a couple more seasons we will be down to that number. That it what I consider to be our fan base - the number we can rely on to turn up every week. Of course potential fan base is much bigger but that is true of every club outside the big 6.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on May 23, 2022 23:31:03 GMT
Certainly Forest and Derby have won more than us, don’t know about Ipswich even under Robson weren’t they just nearly men? There’s far less choice in that area you’re either Ipswich or Norwich or having a long drive. Ipswich League Champions 1962 with Alf Ramsey, runners up 1981, 1982 FA cup 1978 EUFA Cup 1981 '78 was a great cup final.... Roger Osborne grabbing the only goal!!! 👍🏼
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