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Post by independent on May 9, 2022 11:33:49 GMT
The sooner June '23 comes the better and we replace MON and people get what they wish for. By then the new manager should have some money to spend. Hopefully it will all work out or it will all be the new manager's fault. Pity the club didn't take bayern's advice, we would still be in the Premier League.
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Post by independent on May 9, 2022 11:36:19 GMT
With no money to spend. Wait a year and there should be cash available as we will have got rid of the last 2 high earners.
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Post by march4 on May 9, 2022 11:37:08 GMT
I like the guy but id be moving him on and doing it now. You have to look at results throughout the whole season and they have just not been up to scratch, 14th place is not moving forward, we should have been top 6 minimum or at least up there but we are constantly outplayed and in particular at home We have the players,but MoN use is baffling sometimes. We get DWP in the side and he is firing, he is then dropped and only seen now and again, Bursik has been poorly managed in my opinion, both fullbacks have proved that they cant play full backs and the one he brings in isn't good enough. Vrancic starts well then goes off the boil, Baker the same, Harwood-Bellis, Bidace, Wilmot all the same too. In my opinion this means things are not going right on the training ground, 75% of players come to Stoke, start well then deteriorate where at other teams they thrive like Surridge at Forest, McClean and even Vokes is doing well albeit a league below! He seems tactically inept, other managers seem to read how games are panning out and make tactical changes, even Nathan Jones out foxed him whilst the game was going on, hence why we have lost the lead so many times, but we never seem to do it to anyone else, we seem clueless and frozen whilst this happens, unable to react and make rational decisions in the heat of the moment We however cant overlook the mess the took on, trying to work his way through over rated and over paid players has been difficult and he deserves credit for this, i think he did well to move on Vokes, McClean, Ince, Etebo, N'Diaye, Afobe and Woods albeit getting nothing in return but did well all the same. and he has done well in bringing on the younger players such as Campbell, Brown, Tymon, Souttar and DWP, plus there is more to come from Forrester, Taylor, Sparrow and Bursik (maybe) His incoming transfer record isn't great, Fox, Chester, Duhaney, Clarke, Matondo, Gunn, Doughty, Ostigard, Surridge, Sima, and Oakley Booth all flopped on the whole with only Brown, Baker and Jagielka coming out in credit and the rest a bit average. So a succes rate in the transfer market of around 1 in 3 or 4 is very poor. Good manager usually get around 60-70% right, great managers even more But all in all you must be judges on the season and yet again its been disappointing, for the reasons stated I think its time for a new direction be it Mowbray, Farke, Bilic (not my preference!) or someone like Robins Superb post. Can someone please send this to Jon Coates.
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Post by independent on May 9, 2022 11:48:00 GMT
"We have the players,but MoN use is baffling sometimes." It would be interesting to see if a new manager agreed with that, or if he brought in the players he wanted. A new manager might do better or not as the case may be. Some people on here seem to think that this is fantasy footbll. Suggestions that we should buy Rothwell (who I'd love to have) when we can't afford him are typical.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 9, 2022 11:48:07 GMT
The sooner June '23 comes the better and we replace MON and people get what they wish for. By then the new manager should have some money to spend. Hopefully it will all work out or it will all be the new manager's fault. Pity the club didn't take bayern's advice, we would still be in the Premier League. Or a manager who can be shrewder when there isn't money to spend, like the smarter ones in this league who've shown our excuses up for what they are.
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Post by independent on May 9, 2022 11:55:01 GMT
Let's get one of them then. Please not Nathan who has shown us up. Who would you like to take over?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 9, 2022 12:00:21 GMT
Let's get one of them then. Please not Nathan who has shown us up. Who would you like to take over? It's such a nonsense question though isn't it? How many Blackpool fans had heard of Critchley before he took over? How many Huddersfield fans had heard of Corberan? How many Norwich fans had heard of Farke? It isn't our job. There are up and coming coaches overseas and in the lower leagues who we as fans will know nothing about. It doesn't mean they don't exist. Obviously there are concerns that the club's current structure doesn't lend itself to supporting a young tracksuit manager and that's valid, but it's depressing to think the Jones experience means we can never appoint that kind of manager again and we just look to the clogger du jour. If you offered me a straight choice of Mowbray or MON now I'd take Mowbray.
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Post by independent on May 9, 2022 12:06:01 GMT
I must say that I wouldn't. We need something new, not more of the same. Not sure who we should pursue. Maybe McKenna who seems to be sorting Ipswich out.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 9, 2022 12:14:07 GMT
I must say that I wouldn't. We need something new, not more of the same. I don't think it necessarily would be more of the same.
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Post by thevoid on May 9, 2022 12:17:47 GMT
I can't believe some people are seeing a two point increase from last season as progress- especially given the 30 points we tossed away from winning positions. Two points, wow, that's one draw turned into a win. Get the bunting out! Real progress is what Luton, Huddersfield and Forest have done.
Presumably, if we finish 14th again next season but our GD increases by one, that will be deemed to be progress by some on here? Maybe we can hope for a play off push sometime in the 2030s....
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Post by xchpotter on May 9, 2022 12:22:51 GMT
Whatever your view on MON, I'm fearful we have already entered a dithering phase and the longer we do, the higher likelihood it has an impact on new signings while everyone else cracks on.
Whilst I would prefer a change, if it isn't on the cards then the board need to be clear and back their man so he can do what he needs to do with new signings. The worst thing we can do is dither, but the board have a habit of that unfortunately and this is of use to no one. I don't know, maybe the board have already told them he's secure, if so then maybe a suitably worded statement to cut the debate off for the time being might be useful to both points of view.
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Post by thevoid on May 9, 2022 12:24:08 GMT
If I followed a different club and read all the moaning on here I would wish that MON and the Coates both left the club and see how happy all the moaners are then. Everton fans don't moan as much (my brother-in-law is a toffee) and the last time they were not in the top division was 70 years ago. Why do these moaners feel so entitled. We are roughly the same size as Leicester and you can see the decline there in the last 5 years. They should also take a long look at clubs like Sunderland, Bolton, Ipswich and maybe get a sense of perspective! Well we've already had more than one spell in the division below under the Coates Family, so not sure what your point is- we should just be happy that we aren't now?
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Post by Olgrligm on May 9, 2022 12:42:00 GMT
Let's get one of them then. Please not Nathan who has shown us up. Who would you like to take over? It's such a nonsense question though isn't it? How many Blackpool fans had heard of Critchley before he took over? How many Huddersfield fans had heard of Corberan? How many Norwich fans had heard of Farke? It isn't our job. There are up and coming coaches overseas and in the lower leagues who we as fans will know nothing about. It doesn't mean they don't exist. Obviously there are concerns that the club's current structure doesn't lend itself to supporting a young tracksuit manager and that's valid, but it's depressing to think the Jones experience means we can never appoint that kind of manager again and we just look to the clogger du jour. If you offered me a straight choice of Mowbray or MON now I'd take Mowbray. That's interesting, because if Mowbray was the chosen replacement then I would definitely stick with O'Neill. I'm just weighing up the relative benefits for the outlay that we'd be talking. I don't think Mowbray would be any more likely to take us up than O'Neill. He has what, one promotion 15 years ago? That followed by lots of midtable stuff at various clubs. If he joined us, I would expect a similar sort of finish with similar problems to those that we presently experience. Funnily enough, Mowbray and O'Neill share similar blind spots. The difference is that sacking O'Neill means paying up his contract and those of his army of coaches, specialists etc. That money could be invested in the first team at a time when we're pennies away from a points deduction. I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't see us improving much under O'Neill but that spending a relatively vast amount of money bringing in somebody equally unlikely to progress us is even worse. That's not to say that there are no viable non-Mowbray options out there.
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Post by scfcwebby on May 9, 2022 12:48:19 GMT
If I followed a different club and read all the moaning on here I would wish that MON and the Coates both left the club and see how happy all the moaners are then. Everton fans don't moan as much (my brother-in-law is a toffee) and the last time they were not in the top division was 70 years ago. Why do these moaners feel so entitled. We are roughly the same size as Leicester and you can see the decline there in the last 5 years. I can't believe you have used a club that, in the time we've been dithering into obscurity, have won the Premier league, won the FA Cup, had 1 good run in Europe and also reached the semi final of a European competition, as your argument to compare us to "another team the same size as us" 😂😂😂
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 9, 2022 12:55:50 GMT
It's such a nonsense question though isn't it? How many Blackpool fans had heard of Critchley before he took over? How many Huddersfield fans had heard of Corberan? How many Norwich fans had heard of Farke? It isn't our job. There are up and coming coaches overseas and in the lower leagues who we as fans will know nothing about. It doesn't mean they don't exist. Obviously there are concerns that the club's current structure doesn't lend itself to supporting a young tracksuit manager and that's valid, but it's depressing to think the Jones experience means we can never appoint that kind of manager again and we just look to the clogger du jour. If you offered me a straight choice of Mowbray or MON now I'd take Mowbray. That's interesting, because if Mowbray was the chosen replacement then I would definitely stick with O'Neill. I'm just weighing up the relative benefits for the outlay that we'd be talking. I don't think Mowbray would be any more likely to take us up than O'Neill. He has what, one promotion 15 years ago? That followed by lots of midtable stuff at various clubs. If he joined us, I would expect a similar sort of finish with similar problems to those that we presently experience. Funnily enough, Mowbray and O'Neill share similar blind spots. The difference is that sacking O'Neill means paying up his contract and those of his army of coaches, specialists etc. That money could be invested in the first team at a time when we're pennies away from a points deduction. I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't see us improving much under O'Neill but that spending a relatively vast amount of money bringing in somebody equally unlikely to progress us is even worse. That's not to say that there are no viable non-Mowbray options out there. Yeah it wouldn't especially excite me but he seems to be able to find gems in the transfer and loan markets and seems to be slightly more adept at how to approach games at home. I'd probably take that as enough of a step up. You're absolutely right about how far the manager's influence now goes at the club, with us basically giving his right hand man the DoF-adjacent job, and that's going to be difficult to extricate ourselves from.
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Post by thevoid on May 9, 2022 12:56:01 GMT
If I followed a different club and read all the moaning on here I would wish that MON and the Coates both left the club and see how happy all the moaners are then. Everton fans don't moan as much (my brother-in-law is a toffee) and the last time they were not in the top division was 70 years ago. Why do these moaners feel so entitled. We are roughly the same size as Leicester and you can see the decline there in the last 5 years. I can't believe you have used a club that, in the time we've been dithering into obscurity, have won the Premier league, won the FA Cup, had 1 good run in Europe and also reached the semi final of a European competition, as your argument to compare us to "another team the same size as us" 😂😂😂 I bet Leicester are pining for the days of John Elsom being chairman and they were appointing managers like Dave Bassett, Mickey Adams and Craig Levein!
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Post by independent on May 9, 2022 20:04:45 GMT
They are on the slide, and are disimproving year by year.
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banx10
Academy Starlet
Posts: 197
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Post by banx10 on May 9, 2022 21:33:06 GMT
And to replace him with ....................... ????? replace him with, we all know with who. 😁
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Post by iglugluk on May 9, 2022 21:43:07 GMT
They are on the slide, and are disimproving year by year. Is your refusal to directly answer the post to which your replying some sort of tactical thing?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 9, 2022 21:47:40 GMT
They are on the slide, and are disimproving year by year. Is your refusal to directly answer the post to which your replying some sort of tactical thing? More tactical nous than the manger tbf.
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Post by stokesaint1 on May 9, 2022 23:35:23 GMT
I'm still hoping that when the released list is finally made public, O'Neill's name is first on that list.
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boult
Spectator
Posts: 49
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Post by boult on May 10, 2022 0:55:08 GMT
He will be manager for another season. It will be 10th to 18th.
It's what happens after that.
Even our promotion season was an outlier, at the time the lowest ever points accumulated for automatic promotion. It's been matched, but not bettered (or worsened, depending on perspective) since.
That said, there was hope from the performance the season before promotion.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2022 2:40:34 GMT
He's our manager next season so deal with it.
What happened to he's getting sacked after Coventry?
Hopefully a good pre season, injuries cleared up and we go again.
Joey Barton, Mowbray etc. 😄
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Post by deeside2 on May 10, 2022 8:25:26 GMT
It'll take a complete transformation from the manager for us to have any realistic chance of even a playoff place. His whole mindset is wrong for any team who may have such aspirations. He struggled to integrate 6 signings in January so I've got no confidence in his ability to forge a consistent winning team after the wholesale changes we're going to be seeing this transfer window.
The whole place is flat and stale, and needs fresh impetus, but I really can't see O'Neill being able to provide it. We'll see another season like the last two and be in a similar situation yet again.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 10, 2022 8:38:31 GMT
It'll take a complete transformation from the manager for us to have any realistic chance of even a playoff place. His whole mindset is wrong for any team who may have such aspirations. He struggled to integrate 6 signings in January so I've got no confidence in his ability to forge a consistent winning team after the wholesale changes we're going to be seeing this transfer window. The whole place is flat and stale, and needs fresh impetus, but I really can't see O'Neill being able to provide it. We'll see another season like the last two and be in a similar situation yet again. January is definitely worrying. He made changes to the squad that he wanted to make and we signed better players than what we had and we got worse. Not a good look for the manager.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on May 10, 2022 8:39:23 GMT
I like the guy but id be moving him on and doing it now. You have to look at results throughout the whole season and they have just not been up to scratch, 14th place is not moving forward, we should have been top 6 minimum or at least up there but we are constantly outplayed and in particular at home We have the players,but MoN use is baffling sometimes. We get DWP in the side and he is firing, he is then dropped and only seen now and again, Bursik has been poorly managed in my opinion, both fullbacks have proved that they cant play full backs and the one he brings in isn't good enough. Vrancic starts well then goes off the boil, Baker the same, Harwood-Bellis, Bidace, Wilmot all the same too. In my opinion this means things are not going right on the training ground, 75% of players come to Stoke, start well then deteriorate where at other teams they thrive like Surridge at Forest, McClean and even Vokes is doing well albeit a league below! He seems tactically inept, other managers seem to read how games are panning out and make tactical changes, even Nathan Jones out foxed him whilst the game was going on, hence why we have lost the lead so many times, but we never seem to do it to anyone else, we seem clueless and frozen whilst this happens, unable to react and make rational decisions in the heat of the moment We however cant overlook the mess the took on, trying to work his way through over rated and over paid players has been difficult and he deserves credit for this, i think he did well to move on Vokes, McClean, Ince, Etebo, N'Diaye, Afobe and Woods albeit getting nothing in return but did well all the same. and he has done well in bringing on the younger players such as Campbell, Brown, Tymon, Souttar and DWP, plus there is more to come from Forrester, Taylor, Sparrow and Bursik (maybe) His incoming transfer record isn't great, Fox, Chester, Duhaney, Clarke, Matondo, Gunn, Doughty, Ostigard, Surridge, Sima, and Oakley Booth all flopped on the whole with only Brown, Baker and Jagielka coming out in credit and the rest a bit average. So a succes rate in the transfer market of around 1 in 3 or 4 is very poor. Good manager usually get around 60-70% right, great managers even more But all in all you must be judges on the season and yet again its been disappointing, for the reasons stated I think its time for a new direction be it Mowbray, Farke, Bilic (not my preference!) or someone like Robins May I add the Cardiff debacle to that.... 3-0 up, then Cardiff (who couldn't buy a win at the time, and hadn't won away in God knows how long) came storming back, because their manager changed tactics, and O'Neil had no answer to it!!! We went from a winning position, to "luckily" drawing in the end, had their FOURTH not been ruled offside!!!
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Post by shrewspotter on May 10, 2022 10:04:13 GMT
I like the guy but id be moving him on and doing it now. You have to look at results throughout the whole season and they have just not been up to scratch, 14th place is not moving forward, we should have been top 6 minimum or at least up there but we are constantly outplayed and in particular at home We have the players,but MoN use is baffling sometimes. We get DWP in the side and he is firing, he is then dropped and only seen now and again, Bursik has been poorly managed in my opinion, both fullbacks have proved that they cant play full backs and the one he brings in isn't good enough. Vrancic starts well then goes off the boil, Baker the same, Harwood-Bellis, Bidace, Wilmot all the same too. In my opinion this means things are not going right on the training ground, 75% of players come to Stoke, start well then deteriorate where at other teams they thrive like Surridge at Forest, McClean and even Vokes is doing well albeit a league below! He seems tactically inept, other managers seem to read how games are panning out and make tactical changes, even Nathan Jones out foxed him whilst the game was going on, hence why we have lost the lead so many times, but we never seem to do it to anyone else, we seem clueless and frozen whilst this happens, unable to react and make rational decisions in the heat of the moment We however cant overlook the mess the took on, trying to work his way through over rated and over paid players has been difficult and he deserves credit for this, i think he did well to move on Vokes, McClean, Ince, Etebo, N'Diaye, Afobe and Woods albeit getting nothing in return but did well all the same. and he has done well in bringing on the younger players such as Campbell, Brown, Tymon, Souttar and DWP, plus there is more to come from Forrester, Taylor, Sparrow and Bursik (maybe) His incoming transfer record isn't great, Fox, Chester, Duhaney, Clarke, Matondo, Gunn, Doughty, Ostigard, Surridge, Sima, and Oakley Booth all flopped on the whole with only Brown, Baker and Jagielka coming out in credit and the rest a bit average. So a succes rate in the transfer market of around 1 in 3 or 4 is very poor. Good manager usually get around 60-70% right, great managers even more But all in all you must be judges on the season and yet again its been disappointing, for the reasons stated I think its time for a new direction be it Mowbray, Farke, Bilic (not my preference!) or someone like Robins May I add the Cardiff debacle to that.... 3-0 up, then Cardiff (who couldn't buy a win at the time, and hadn't won away in God knows how long) came storming back, because their manager changed tactics, and O'Neil had no answer to it!!! We went from a winning position, to "luckily" drawing in the end, had their FOURTH not been ruled offside!!! That's correct and this was Steve Morrison who was at the time the very inexperienced Cardiff interim manager. Believe it or not i went and as I had a spare ticket a friend came who is a die hard Cardiff fan, he said that there team was so bad they couldn't see them avoiding relegation, even he commented on why were the flanks not guarded when this happened, hey never score away, let alone 3 and he also said what we all say how O'Neil froze The other point I wish to make is that of the season ticket sales. I am guessing here but I would imagine somewhere around 15000 season ticket sales would have happened by now will be about right. If we got a new manager and some renewed optimism then I would hazard a bet that we would sell another 3-4000. if 4000 sales happened that would be somewhere in the region of 1.6m revenue, enough to pay off O'Neil and his crew surely, so all the talk of not being able to afford stuff isn't the case (in my opinion of course)
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Post by GeneralFaye on May 10, 2022 10:09:24 GMT
I've never once had a feeling he's been remotely close to the sack and that's the worrying thing for me.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on May 10, 2022 11:57:45 GMT
He will be manager for another season. It will be 10th to 18th. It's what happens after that. Even our promotion season was an outlier, at the time the lowest ever points accumulated for automatic promotion. It's been matched, but not bettered (or worsened, depending on perspective) since. That said, there was hope from the performance the season before promotion. We seem to get promoted on lower pts than average, 62/63 was one of the lowest on record back then.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on May 10, 2022 12:11:20 GMT
He will be manager for another season. It will be 10th to 18th. It's what happens after that. Even our promotion season was an outlier, at the time the lowest ever points accumulated for automatic promotion. It's been matched, but not bettered (or worsened, depending on perspective) since. That said, there was hope from the performance the season before promotion. We seem to get promoted on lower pts than average, 62/63 was one of the lowest on record back then. Best hope no one gets any more than 62pts next season then, we may stand a chance!!! 😁
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