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Post by Gob Bluth on Feb 18, 2022 15:57:55 GMT
It really wasn't long ago that RT was reporting that there were no troops on the boarder, using terms like purported by the west when describing the position of their troops. Also RT have put a section on their website on the top, like a main category called 'Russia & Former Soviet Union'. Putin's problem is how he escalates the proxy wars in the south and as it stands I don't see how he can do it without it looking like an attack on Ukraine. You could see them setting up camp in the Donbass but if he goes to Kiev that's a big move that I don't think he can sell to the International community or at home in Russia. It wouldn't look like a nervousness around Nato positions or the protection of 'Russian' people, it would look like an invasion. Lots of historic parallels being drawn between today’s situation and Hitler’s conduct that led to the WW2. But there is another one that is just as relevant; Kruschev, Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kruschev thought Kennedy was a weak man, something he chose to test when they met at the Vienna Summit in June,1961 where he bullied and humiliated Kennedy. That led him to completely misjudge Kennedy’s resolve and was the primary reason for him embarking on his Cuban adventure. He did it because he thought he could get away with it. In the end he, of course backed down. There was of course a similar, and significant, back story of NATO missile deployments in Turkey, but it was Kruschev’s assessment of Kennedy that meant he decided to go ahead with the plan of stationing nuclear weapons on Cuban soil. It’s fair to say Putin sees Biden as weak. Is this him, like his predecessor, choosing to see how far he can push Biden? The only problem is how he backs down. Kruschev had the benefit of the West withdrawing those missiles from Turkey (which the West didn’t actually need to do; Kruschev had figured by then he’d misjudged Kennedy and basically wanted out of his Cuban adventure as quickly as possible even if it was unilateral) so he could try and present the situation to his home audience as a victory. (His home audience being the polit bureau. Which didn’t work. He was punted a couple of years later, his reputation destroyed by his rash behaviour over Cuba). I’m not sure the same face saver is in play for Putin. Thanks for this, I was unaware of the details and can only remember seeing aerial pictures of the Cuban missile crisis at school and none of the details. I think we're all still hopeful Putin backs down or that all parties can find a more workable solution to the Minsk agreement. If that's not the case I feel that Russia would be willing to enter Ukraine but I'm not sure what America or the wider international community would do aside from sanctions. |
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 18, 2022 16:10:20 GMT
Lots of historic parallels being drawn between today’s situation and Hitler’s conduct that led to the WW2. But there is another one that is just as relevant; Kruschev, Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kruschev thought Kennedy was a weak man, something he chose to test when they met at the Vienna Summit in June,1961 where he bullied and humiliated Kennedy. That led him to completely misjudge Kennedy’s resolve and was the primary reason for him embarking on his Cuban adventure. He did it because he thought he could get away with it. In the end he, of course backed down. There was of course a similar, and significant, back story of NATO missile deployments in Turkey, but it was Kruschev’s assessment of Kennedy that meant he decided to go ahead with the plan of stationing nuclear weapons on Cuban soil. It’s fair to say Putin sees Biden as weak. Is this him, like his predecessor, choosing to see how far he can push Biden? The only problem is how he backs down. Kruschev had the benefit of the West withdrawing those missiles from Turkey (which the West didn’t actually need to do; Kruschev had figured by then he’d misjudged Kennedy and basically wanted out of his Cuban adventure as quickly as possible even if it was unilateral) so he could try and present the situation to his home audience as a victory. (His home audience being the polit bureau. Which didn’t work. He was punted a couple of years later, his reputation destroyed by his rash behaviour over Cuba). I’m not sure the same face saver is in play for Putin. Thanks for this, I was unaware of the details and can only remember seeing aerial pictures of the Cuban missile crisis at school and none of the details. I think we're all still hopeful Putin backs down or that all parties can find a more workable solution to the Minsk agreement. If that's not the case I feel that Russia would be willing to enter Ukraine but I'm not sure what America or the wider international community would do aside from sanctions. If you want to learn more about this I thoroughly recommend Red Heat which is a history of American involvement during the Cold War in the Caribbean focussing on Cuba, Haiti and the Dominican Republic (as it is now called). It’s a real eye opener. Mainly about the utterly appalling conduct of the Americans and the tragedy of the people living in those three countries who were well and truly shafted. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 18, 2022 17:25:33 GMT
Thanks for this, I was unaware of the details and can only remember seeing aerial pictures of the Cuban missile crisis at school and none of the details. I think we're all still hopeful Putin backs down or that all parties can find a more workable solution to the Minsk agreement. If that's not the case I feel that Russia would be willing to enter Ukraine but I'm not sure what America or the wider international community would do aside from sanctions. If you want to learn more about this I thoroughly recommend Red Heat which is a history of American involvement during the Cold War in the Caribbean focussing on Cuba, Haiti and the Dominican Republic (as it is now called). It’s a real eye opener. Mainly about the utterly appalling conduct of the Americans and the tragedy of the people living in those three countries who were well and truly shafted. That sounds a good read. America has been agitating in Central and South America for decades. I'd guess that most people would see Russian and Chinese involvement in foreign countries as unnecessary, provocative interfering and similar 'Western' involvement as much less of an issue, but that's primarily because most people in the West have been encouraged to think that way for years. Books like the above help to provide a much better picture. No-one ever wants to hear it, and when it is raised the usual response is you're laying the blame for everything at the West's door. Nor am I saying that everything wrong in the world is the fault of the US and Britain, but imperialism in any form rarely considers much beyond the strategic needs of the imperialist countries - the colonised are just political pawns. There is no moral high ground to be taken on imperialism from any direction. |
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Post by Mystic Stokie on Feb 18, 2022 17:54:50 GMT
Brandon seems to think so, which is surprising because he doesn't normally know what day it is or the names of leaders and countries he referring to.
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Post by swampmongrel on Feb 18, 2022 18:52:06 GMT
I’m hoping Putin doesn’t invade now. Whilst we’re all distracted with the storm and Wordle.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 18, 2022 19:10:21 GMT
I’m hoping Putin doesn’t invade now. Whilst we’re all distracted with the storm and Wordle. And with Stoke starting to turn a big corner. Bloody typical just as we are coming good and we'll be suspending sports for the indefinite. Bloody Putin  |
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Feb 18, 2022 19:16:48 GMT
Brandon seems to think so, which is surprising because he doesn't normally know what day it is or the names of leaders and countries he referring to. He is a bit useless alright! From a chump to a clown, they need a decent President soon to steady the ship |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 18, 2022 19:20:32 GMT
Brandon seems to think so, which is surprising because he doesn't normally know what day it is or the names of leaders and countries he referring to. He is a bit useless alright! From a chump to a clown, they need a decent President soon to steady the ship Ron Burgundy would make a better fist of it than either of those clowns. |
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Post by lordb on Feb 18, 2022 22:04:07 GMT
It really wasn't long ago that RT was reporting that there were no troops on the boarder, using terms like purported by the west when describing the position of their troops. Also RT have put a section on their website on the top, like a main category called 'Russia & Former Soviet Union'. Putin's problem is how he escalates the proxy wars in the south and as it stands I don't see how he can do it without it looking like an attack on Ukraine. You could see them setting up camp in the Donbass but if he goes to Kiev that's a big move that I don't think he can sell to the International community or at home in Russia. It wouldn't look like a nervousness around Nato positions or the protection of 'Russian' people, it would look like an invasion. Lots of historic parallels being drawn between today’s situation and Hitler’s conduct that led to the WW2. But there is another one that is just as relevant; Kruschev, Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kruschev thought Kennedy was a weak man, something he chose to test when they met at the Vienna Summit in June,1961 where he bullied and humiliated Kennedy. That led him to completely misjudge Kennedy’s resolve and was the primary reason for him embarking on his Cuban adventure. He did it because he thought he could get away with it. In the end he, of course backed down. There was of course a similar, and significant, back story of NATO missile deployments in Turkey, but it was Kruschev’s assessment of Kennedy that meant he decided to go ahead with the plan of stationing nuclear weapons on Cuban soil. It’s fair to say Putin sees Biden as weak. Is this him, like his predecessor, choosing to see how far he can push Biden? The only problem is how he backs down. Kruschev had the benefit of the West withdrawing those missiles from Turkey (which the West didn’t actually need to do; Kruschev had figured by then he’d misjudged Kennedy and basically wanted out of his Cuban adventure as quickly as possible even if it was unilateral) so he could try and present the situation to his home audience as a victory. (His home audience being the polit bureau. Which didn’t work. He was punted a couple of years later, his reputation destroyed by his rash behaviour over Cuba). I’m not sure the same face saver is in play for Putin. Putin doesn't need to keep a powerful polite bureau happy though |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 18, 2022 23:12:45 GMT
Brandon seems to think so, which is surprising because he doesn't normally know what day it is or the names of leaders and countries he referring to. He is a bit useless alright! From a chump to a clown, they need a decent President soon to steady the ship It was more pound shop fascist to a knackered has-been. However Neil is one of the strongest sideline snipers of Biden and I think I agree with him here. He's been better of late, but the triumvirate of Biden, Johnson and Macron is as weak as it ever has been. I fear we're currently dancing to a Russian beat (probably Rachmaninoff). |
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Post by lordb on Feb 18, 2022 23:22:48 GMT
He is a bit useless alright! From a chump to a clown, they need a decent President soon to steady the ship It was more pound shop fascist to a knackered has-been. However Neil is one of the strongest sideline snipers of Biden and I think I agree with him here. He's been better of late, but the triumvirate of Biden, Johnson and Macron is as weak as it ever has been. I fear we're currently dancing to a Russian beat (probably Rachmaninoff). Plus a new German chancellor |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Feb 18, 2022 23:29:03 GMT
i have to say i have no idea what’s going on. Perhaps that’s not such a bad thing.
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Post by questionable on Feb 19, 2022 8:37:56 GMT
Breaking News heavy shelling in Eastern Ukrain, started or the usual stuff in this part of the country ??
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 19, 2022 10:27:31 GMT
When do the Olympics end?
Wouldn't be surprised if an invasion happened shortly afterwards.
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 19, 2022 10:42:26 GMT
Breaking News heavy shelling in Eastern Ukrain, started or the usual stuff in this part of the country ?? Both |
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Post by thevoid on Feb 19, 2022 10:49:52 GMT
Not looking good
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 19, 2022 11:36:06 GMT
Wouldn't it be nice if, instead of the usual bluff and bluster and tough-sounding words that amount to nothing, Boris and his government took the decision to freeze the assets of all Russian oligarchs living in the UK (ie London) and those with significant assets in the UK, in the event of an invasion.
I mean that would require some moral compass which we all know they don't have but it would also heap enormous pressure on Putin as his mates in the City squeal like pigs back to him.
Too many Tory donations to lose if they did that?
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 19, 2022 11:59:55 GMT
Wouldn't it be nice if, instead of the usual bluff and bluster and tough-sounding words that amount to nothing, Boris and his government took the decision to freeze the assets of all Russian oligarchs living in the UK (ie London) and those with significant assets in the UK, in the event of an invasion. I mean that would require some moral compass which we all know they don't have but it would also heap enormous pressure on Putin as his mates in the City squeal like pigs back to him. Too many Tory donations to lose if they did that? I'd settle for him not looking like a bag of shit at the MSC. |
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Post by Eggybread on Feb 19, 2022 12:12:10 GMT
No. To answer the initial question.
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Post by OldStokie on Feb 19, 2022 12:36:24 GMT
Without so much Russian dirty money sloshing about in our banks, we'd probably drop down to about the 10th largest economy in the world. But would that be such a bad thing? The price of properties in London and the Home Counties determines the price of housing throughout the UK as well as determining our GDP part in the banking sector..
I'm not convinced Putin would get away with a full scale invasion. He wouldn't be the first Russian dictator to be taken out. Ignoring the jailed opposition to him, there are plenty more very powerful people in Russia within his group of 'friends' who wouldn't take kindly to having their ready cash frozen.
OS.
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Post by superjw on Feb 19, 2022 12:47:34 GMT
Breaking News heavy shelling in Eastern Ukrain, started or the usual stuff in this part of the country ?? There was an interview with some of the Ukrainian troops on the front line, they said it has been on and off for a while but has ramped up considerably over the last day or 2 |
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Post by questionable on Feb 19, 2022 13:23:39 GMT
Wouldn't it be nice if, instead of the usual bluff and bluster and tough-sounding words that amount to nothing, Boris and his government took the decision to freeze the assets of all Russian oligarchs living in the UK (ie London) and those with significant assets in the UK, in the event of an invasion. I mean that would require some moral compass which we all know they don't have but it would also heap enormous pressure on Putin as his mates in the City squeal like pigs back to him. Too many Tory donations to lose if they did that? Apparently Russians are transferring properties to their children who were born in the UK, hmmm I wonder why. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 19, 2022 13:43:36 GMT
Wouldn't it be nice if, instead of the usual bluff and bluster and tough-sounding words that amount to nothing, Boris and his government took the decision to freeze the assets of all Russian oligarchs living in the UK (ie London) and those with significant assets in the UK, in the event of an invasion. I mean that would require some moral compass which we all know they don't have but it would also heap enormous pressure on Putin as his mates in the City squeal like pigs back to him. Too many Tory donations to lose if they did that? Apparently Russians are transferring properties to their children who were born in the UK, hmmm I wonder why. Wasn’t it Blair who brought in the special visa to allow the Russians over |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Feb 19, 2022 13:51:19 GMT
I’d be interested to see if this impacts on Chelsea?
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 19, 2022 17:49:49 GMT
Apparently Russians are transferring properties to their children who were born in the UK, hmmm I wonder why. Wasn’t it Blair who brought in the special visa to allow the Russians over Did he put any ex-KGB relatives in the House of Lords though? 🤔 |
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 19, 2022 18:13:50 GMT
Wasn’t it Blair who brought in the special visa to allow the Russians over Did he put any ex-KGB relatives in the House of Lords though? 🤔 So you admit it was a labour government that opened the country up for Russian money |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 19, 2022 18:34:38 GMT
Did he put any ex-KGB relatives in the House of Lords though? 🤔 So you admit it was a labour government that opened the country up for Russian money If you're asking me do I believe that in 2005, following the EU-Russia summit, that Tony Blair singlehandedly improved Visa travel for Russian citizen with the intention of laundering dirty Russian Oligarch money through London. Then the answer is, No. 😅 Back to ex-KGB Oligarch relatives being put in the House of Lords, remind us who and what Government did that? 🤭 |
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Post by yeswilko on Feb 19, 2022 18:43:54 GMT
Did he put any ex-KGB relatives in the House of Lords though? 🤔 So you admit it was a labour government that opened the country up for Russian money Impressive gymnastics mucka |
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 19, 2022 19:21:32 GMT
So you admit it was a labour government that opened the country up for Russian money Impressive gymnastics mucka Why thanks |
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 19, 2022 20:26:02 GMT
Did he put any ex-KGB relatives in the House of Lords though? 🤔 So you admit it was a labour government that opened the country up for Russian money Blair was a Tory. |
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