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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 19, 2024 17:36:39 GMT
Sounds like russia is opening the door to MAGA americans and the likes who are sick of liberal ideas and immigration. They can move to russia more easily now?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Aug 19, 2024 17:55:09 GMT
Sounds like russia is opening the door to MAGA americans and the likes who are sick of liberal ideas and immigration. They can move to russia more easily now? Hmmm. Russia's latest army recruitment plan? No thanks š
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 19, 2024 18:01:29 GMT
Sounds like russia is opening the door to MAGA americans and the likes who are sick of liberal ideas and immigration. They can move to russia more easily now? Checking house prices as we speakš
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Post by wannabee on Aug 19, 2024 18:03:16 GMT
Sounds like russia is opening the door to MAGA americans and the likes who are sick of liberal ideas and immigration. They can move to russia more easily now? Not only them, there are quite a few on here who strongly disapprove of Immigrants and blame Globalists and Neoliberalists who might be tempted.
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Post by LDE76 on Aug 19, 2024 18:06:33 GMT
Sounds like russia is opening the door to MAGA americans and the likes who are sick of liberal ideas and immigration. They can move to russia more easily now? It's a win-win, isn't it? We wave goodbye to a raft of effluent and Alex Jones gets to be a multi-millionaire again.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 19, 2024 18:10:26 GMT
Sounds like russia is opening the door to MAGA americans and the likes who are sick of liberal ideas and immigration. They can move to russia more easily now? Not only them, there are quite a few on here who strongly disapprove of Immigrants and blame Globalists and Neoliberalists who might be tempted. Edgyš
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Post by gawa on Aug 19, 2024 18:16:33 GMT
Can anyone find a confirmed translation? It sounds like Russia isn't just content with starting an unprovoked war of conquest and brutally mass murdering innocents, but now they say they're refusing to do peace negotiations. The only way to get peace long term, and the way with the lowest financial cost and least death, is to invest fully in Ukrainian victory. What's your opinion on the 2014 presidential election compared to previous ones mtrstudent? Do you find it strange that the "Party of Regions" went from 8.5 million, 11 million and 9.5 million votes in the 3 former elections, to then getting 500k votes in 2014? I'm not sure I agree with unprovoked.
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Post by gawa on Aug 19, 2024 18:22:32 GMT
Sounds like russia is opening the door to MAGA americans and the likes who are sick of liberal ideas and immigration. They can move to russia more easily now? MAGA snowflakes wouldn't survive. In Russia game play you.
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Post by gawa on Aug 19, 2024 20:42:49 GMT
If I were to try and ELI5 how I perceive the history which resulted in the conflict starting: - Ukraine formed in 1991 after democratically choosing independence from Soviet Union and all regions voting in favour. - Unlike other Soviet union nations Ukraines economy performed worse outside of the Soviet union during the 90s. - The country has quite a West v East divide politically. - The west historically is more pro western and these regions previously would have been part of the Poland-Lithuania commonwealth. Whereas east is more pro Russia and historically would have been in Russian Empire. See below: - Country has always been very corrupt ranking high on the indexes. All sides guilty of it. - In the 1991 election the winning candidate had received a majority across many regions all over. - In 1994 it was an eastern backed candidate who won. - In 1999 a western backed candidate won. - Then the 2004 election happened where the eastern backed candidate won. - This resulted in an "Orange Revolution" with claims of electoral fraud and protests resulting in a re run being declared. - In the re run the western backed candidate won and the eastern backed candidate resigned. - Despite claims of evidence of electoral fraud at a high level no case was ever brought to a court even after arresting public figures with charges. - Further economic downturn then followed. - Talks for a trade agreement with the EU began in 2008 - Then the 2010 election occurs and once again the eastern backed candidate wins with a majority. - Upon election the president then tried to clamp down on corruption and some former political representatives were convicted of abuse of power. - Talks with the EU then slowed down as they wanted to interfere on Ukranian politics and convictions of the past administration (who are more pro EU alligned). en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Ukraine_Association_Agreement#:~:text=The%20agreement%20commits%20Ukraine%20to,EU%20technical%20and%20consumer%20standards. - EU officials then boycotted Euro 2012 in Ukraine over this too. - Talks soured due to preconditions the EU wanted but finally on Feb 22 2013 and agreement was found. - On Feb 25 2013 EU then said "one country cannot at the same time be a member of a customs union and be in a deep common free-trade area with the European Union" - This was in reference to the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia whom the president of Ukraine was also in discussions with Putin for cooperating with as they are close trade partners of Ukraine. - Discussions continue for several months with Ukraine stalling and failing to meet the preconditions set by the EU. - Ukraine then try to propose a potential three way trade decree between the EU, Russia and Ukraine which would solve their trade issues from both ends. - Remember Ukraine economy is performing badly. - So despite wanting to secure a trade deal where they could trade with Russia/Others and the EU, this wasn't possible. - In the end they had a choice of 15 billion from Russia as a loan with no preconditions in terms of changing anything. Or alternatively the EU were offering much less financially but with much more preconditions. foreignpolicy.com/2014/02/21/the-loan-that-launched-a-crisis/- Ukraine didn't sign the deal and then Euromaiden protests erupted. (Western ukranians supported this more) - Euromaiden WAS an act of interference by the west on Ukraines democracy. This is a good read - jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea- This cumulated in the revolution of dignity where the president was overthrown in a coup with an interim government brought in and a new presidential election arranged. - The subsequent election resulted in the main Eastern supported party which had previously won elections including the last. Suddenly getting 500k votes despite always getting 8 million plus. Observers recognised electoral fraud. And the majority of polling stations in the east of the country where shut with the recent instability used as an excuse. - What then followed were the revolutions in some of these regions which became independant republics. - Minsk 2 and such follows. Instability continues. - Decommunization also begins where nazi collaborators were now war heroes. 2500 statues and monuments recognising historical figures removed. 1000 cities renamed. Soviet union flags banned. Red stars banned. Let's not forget that these regions have only been in Ukraine for 20 years. Previously were Soviet union and russian empire. They have deep historical links to Russia. And the majority of people all speak Russian as their first language. - By the time the 2019 election comes round the main eastern party, party of regions, is officially banned. The communist partied are officially banned. - Zelensky wins the election. - Attacks on political opponents and silencing opposition continues - www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/05/05/mena-m05.htmlAre Russia the goodies? No not at all. You can criticise Ukraine without being pro Russian. You don't have to be one or the other. But my attempt at a very condensed brief history of Ukraine highlights the extent of the corruption and political interference from both sides of the political spectrum. Ultimately its an incredibly divided nation which goes back long before the Soviet unions existence nevermind Ukraine. The culture, values and political ideologies shared by those on the west is vastly different from those on the east. The russians are interfering with their side and the west is interfering with their side. But what we should be thinking about is what the people who have lived on these lands for years think. And a route towards peace and stability. Many left wing activists, politicians, journalists and parties have been targeted by the Ukranian government since 2014. There is widespread suppression and attacks on any forms of opposition and what we hear is mostly from what "our side" from Ukraine thinks. We don't get a balanced perspective. I see this more as a Ukranian civil war with the west and east both backing different sides either through military, weapons, finances, diplomacy, electoral interference or other. I do not agree with any of the Russian war crimes committed and I don't feel their invasion was just either. But I also don't agree with the interference from the West on elections and policy where they have backed instability which has led to coups. Both times a president was overthrown, the protests and violence came from western ukranians. It wasn't the pro Russia side doing the coups or overthrowing the government after elections. Anyway that's my take if anyone can be bothered reading.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 19, 2024 21:08:34 GMT
Sounds like russia is opening the door to MAGA americans and the likes who are sick of liberal ideas and immigration. They can move to russia more easily now? How do you come to that conclusion?
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 20, 2024 8:52:56 GMT
Sounds like russia is opening the door to MAGA americans and the likes who are sick of liberal ideas and immigration. They can move to russia more easily now? How do you come to that conclusion? Russian media seemed to be saying it's all about letting in those who are sick of "woke" ideology etc which is the MAGA schtick. Making it easier to immigrate by ensuring there aren't things like language requirements for getting residency in Russia. That's why I said "sounds like" and put a question mark - I'd want a trusted source who knows Russian jurisprudence, read the decree and compared it with past laws before saying it confidently without the "seems like" and question mark.
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 20, 2024 8:56:42 GMT
Another russian tank captured by Ukraine!
This looks like the 7th confirmed and geolocated.
You might ask "how do we know they're actually captured from russians and not just posed by the Ukrainians for propaganda" and that's a good question.
Only Russia builds and runs this exact model of tank so it was definitely russian at some point. Was it only just captured? It seems likely given the location but it isn't proven.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 20, 2024 23:55:10 GMT
How do you come to that conclusion? Russian media seemed to be saying it's all about letting in those who are sick of "woke" ideology etc which is the MAGA schtick. Making it easier to immigrate by ensuring there aren't things like language requirements for getting residency in Russia. That's why I said "sounds like" and put a question mark - I'd want a trusted source who knows Russian jurisprudence, read the decree and compared it with past laws before saying it confidently without the "seems like" and question mark. I think youāre generalising again tbh, Iām not a fan particularly of the far liberal left although I class myself as a liberal. Not sure why you think almost any āmagaā American would move to Russia. Youāre coverage of the war on here in general is excellent but for me the quality of some of your posts is ruined by (as what I perceive to be) political bias.
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Aug 21, 2024 8:22:23 GMT
Can anyone find a confirmed translation? It sounds like Russia isn't just content with starting an unprovoked war of conquest and brutally mass murdering innocents, but now they say they're refusing to do peace negotiations. The only way to get peace long term, and the way with the lowest financial cost and least death, is to invest fully in Ukrainian victory. What's your opinion on the 2014 presidential election compared to previous ones mtrstudent? Do you find it strange that the "Party of Regions" went from 8.5 million, 11 million and 9.5 million votes in the 3 former elections, to then getting 500k votes in 2014? I'm not sure I agree with unprovoked. I think the 'unprovoked' line which Western politicians have used from the start is either ignorant or dishonest, depending on who is saying it. If you know about Victoria Nuland, Saakashvili and the Kagan family and use this line, I would suggest it's the latter. It's another thing to say the response to the perceived provocation is disproportionate and wrong though. You can even make the argument that western countries should interfere in sovereign nations in order to spread liberal democracy, but using the word unprovoked still doesn't really fit for me. People in power want to frame everything as good and evil, freedom and democracy, etc etc, in order to have popular support for their geopolitical strategy. Maybe I'm too cynical!
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 21, 2024 8:27:49 GMT
Ukraine hit a major russian oil storage 4 days ago. Didn't post at the time because past attacks have burned only a tank or a few, but this one looks bigger.
Speculation that ~$200m worth of oil could have gone up.
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Post by gawa on Aug 21, 2024 8:33:33 GMT
What's your opinion on the 2014 presidential election compared to previous ones mtrstudent? Do you find it strange that the "Party of Regions" went from 8.5 million, 11 million and 9.5 million votes in the 3 former elections, to then getting 500k votes in 2014? I'm not sure I agree with unprovoked. I think the 'unprovoked' line which Western politicians have used from the start is either ignorant or dishonest, depending on who is saying it. If you know about Victoria Nuland, Saakashvili and the Kagan family and use this line, I would suggest it's the latter. It's another thing to say the response to the perceived provocation is disproportionate and wrong though. You can even make the argument that western countries should interfere in sovereign nations in order to spread liberal democracy, but using the word unprovoked still doesn't really fit for me. People in power want to frame everything as good and evil, freedom and democracy, etc etc, in order to have popular support for their geopolitical strategy. Maybe I'm too cynical! Russia is like that colleague in work who left 12 months ago. And anytime anything goes wrong in work you and your colleagues all just blame the guy who left 12 months ago With time the truth will come out just like it did/is in Israel/Gaza.
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Post by gawa on Aug 21, 2024 8:41:16 GMT
Russian media seemed to be saying it's all about letting in those who are sick of "woke" ideology etc which is the MAGA schtick. Making it easier to immigrate by ensuring there aren't things like language requirements for getting residency in Russia. That's why I said "sounds like" and put a question mark - I'd want a trusted source who knows Russian jurisprudence, read the decree and compared it with past laws before saying it confidently without the "seems like" and question mark. I think youāre generalising again tbh, Iām not a fan particularly of the far liberal left although I class myself as a liberal. Not sure why you think almost any āmagaā American would move to Russia. Youāre coverage of the war on here in general is excellent but for me the quality of some of your posts is ruined by (as what I perceive to be) political bias. The key word in the press statement in the tweet is "neoliberal ideas" which doesn't discriminate against left or right wing as both the "left" and "right" in the west push the neoliberalism plague on our houses. It's certainly not just targeted at MAGA fans given that it is the left wing parties and journalists whom have been getting suppressed in Ukraine - not the right wing.
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Post by steve66 on Aug 21, 2024 10:36:06 GMT
What's your opinion on the 2014 presidential election compared to previous ones mtrstudent? Do you find it strange that the "Party of Regions" went from 8.5 million, 11 million and 9.5 million votes in the 3 former elections, to then getting 500k votes in 2014? I'm not sure I agree with unprovoked. I think the 'unprovoked' line which Western politicians have used from the start is either ignorant or dishonest, depending on who is saying it. If you know about Victoria Nuland, Saakashvili and the Kagan family and use this line, I would suggest it's the latter. It's another thing to say the response to the perceived provocation is disproportionate and wrong though. You can even make the argument that western countries should interfere in sovereign nations in order to spread liberal democracy, but using the word unprovoked still doesn't really fit for me. People in power want to frame everything as good and evil, freedom and democracy, etc etc, in order to have popular support for their geopolitical strategy. Maybe I'm too cynical! Whatever the reasoning there is no excuse for the barbaric murderās of women & children, rape or removing children from their homeland, bombing of civilian ātargetsā etc
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Post by gawa on Aug 21, 2024 10:47:49 GMT
I think the 'unprovoked' line which Western politicians have used from the start is either ignorant or dishonest, depending on who is saying it. If you know about Victoria Nuland, Saakashvili and the Kagan family and use this line, I would suggest it's the latter. It's another thing to say the response to the perceived provocation is disproportionate and wrong though. You can even make the argument that western countries should interfere in sovereign nations in order to spread liberal democracy, but using the word unprovoked still doesn't really fit for me. People in power want to frame everything as good and evil, freedom and democracy, etc etc, in order to have popular support for their geopolitical strategy. Maybe I'm too cynical! Whatever the reasoning there is no excuse for the barbaric murderās of women & children, rape or removing children from their homeland, bombing of civilian ātargetsā etc I think the US calls that "the right to defend oneself" in the other war they're bankrolling where their propoganda of babies cooked in ovens, widespread rape and babies being beheaded hasn't quite been so successful in cutting through despite the valient efforts of our complicit media. I'll leave this here www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/05/05/mena-m05.html
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Post by steve66 on Aug 21, 2024 11:11:42 GMT
Whatever the reasoning there is no excuse for the barbaric murderās of women & children, rape or removing children from their homeland, bombing of civilian ātargetsā etc I think the US calls that "the right to defend oneself" in the other war they're bankrolling where their propoganda of babies cooked in ovens, widespread rape and babies being beheaded hasn't quite been so successful in cutting through despite the valient efforts of our complicit media. I'll leave this here www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/05/05/mena-m05.htmlWe can believe whatever bullshit is published or not it doesnāt disguise the fact Russia invaded, murdered, raped, on the pretence of a training exercise!!
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Aug 21, 2024 12:51:05 GMT
I think the 'unprovoked' line which Western politicians have used from the start is either ignorant or dishonest, depending on who is saying it. If you know about Victoria Nuland, Saakashvili and the Kagan family and use this line, I would suggest it's the latter. It's another thing to say the response to the perceived provocation is disproportionate and wrong though. You can even make the argument that western countries should interfere in sovereign nations in order to spread liberal democracy, but using the word unprovoked still doesn't really fit for me. People in power want to frame everything as good and evil, freedom and democracy, etc etc, in order to have popular support for their geopolitical strategy. Maybe I'm too cynical! Whatever the reasoning there is no excuse for the barbaric murderās of women & children, rape or removing children from their homeland, bombing of civilian ātargetsā etc The problem with a statement like this is that I can't really critique it without it being like 'oh you support rape and killing children then', which I hope we could agree that nobody here does. George Orwell wrote a great essay about war and atrocities which I strongly advise anyone to read. The reality is that atrocities happen in war, usually on both sides to varying degrees and that it's absolutely awful. But most people who don't have a near obsessive interest in history will only care about the civilians which they're shown and told to care about. Which of these actions do you think are acceptable: Ukraine using cluster munitions on beaches of Crimea, IDF killing civilians because Hamas won't surrender and hide behind the civilian population, allied bombing of Dresden and Berlin in ww2, two nuclear bombs used on Japanese cities to end ww2? All these things are terrible but you could make a case for some of them being necessary and or justified. Sure criticise the way Russia has prosecuted the war though and I think the guy who posts military updates regularly does that part pretty accurately. I'm just criticising the absolute good vs absolute evil narrative we're fed because I believe it makes it harder to send all those young men back to their families and watching football which we are very lucky (even if we are getting pumped in Watford) to do
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Post by iancransonsknees on Aug 21, 2024 16:24:35 GMT
Worth a watch just to see Morgan taken down a peg or two.
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 22, 2024 9:04:21 GMT
Ukraine hit something on a russian airfield... I'll post the satellite pics when I find them.
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 22, 2024 9:33:43 GMT
Maybe they did hit some planes.
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 22, 2024 11:44:34 GMT
One of the experts said this village battle was all kinds of confusing.
Russians claimed they destroyed a Ukrainian BMP-2 but the one that drives in on video is armoured in the russian way and has a russian "V" symbol on it.
Maybe the Ukrainians were trying to pretend? I think russia probably just shot their own people again.
Imagine how confusing these battles are.
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 22, 2024 11:49:17 GMT
There's evidence Russia is withdrawing some troops from Ukraine to go to Kursk.
But so far mostly from Crimea, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia... Southern parts of ukraine where there aren't major battles.
Russia is still pouring just as much into Donetsk as before, where they are grinding towards a crucial pair of towns called Pokrovsk & Myrnohrad.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 22, 2024 12:09:27 GMT
Whatever the reasoning there is no excuse for the barbaric murderās of women & children, rape or removing children from their homeland, bombing of civilian ātargetsā etc I think the US calls that "the right to defend oneself" in the other war they're bankrolling where their propoganda of babies cooked in ovens, widespread rape and babies being beheaded hasn't quite been so successful in cutting through despite the valient efforts of our complicit media. I'll leave this here www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/05/05/mena-m05.htmlI agree with your comments on Ukraine and have posted on here before that the most corrupt country in Europe has invaded the second most corrupt. That does not mean we should not help defend them against the invader. History teaches us that people like Putin, Hitler, Napoleon, etc don't stop. What's more China will start expanding. We are right to stand beside Israel without condoning what their government does. If we don't stand with Israel against Iran and the rest the result will be loss of their homeland and at best 6 million refugees, or far worse genocide than what is happening in Gaza.
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Post by gawa on Aug 22, 2024 14:01:17 GMT
I think the US calls that "the right to defend oneself" in the other war they're bankrolling where their propoganda of babies cooked in ovens, widespread rape and babies being beheaded hasn't quite been so successful in cutting through despite the valient efforts of our complicit media. I'll leave this here www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/05/05/mena-m05.htmlI agree with your comments on Ukraine and have posted on here before that the most corrupt country in Europe has invaded the second most corrupt. That does not mean we should not help defend them against the invader.Ā History teaches us that people like Putin, Hitler, Napoleon, etc don't stop. What's more China will start expanding. We are right to stand beside Israel without condoning what their government does. If we don't stand with Israel against Iran and the rest the result will be loss of their homeland and at best 6 million refugees, or far worse genocide than what is happening in Gaza. I just think it's incredibly complex and some people are blinded by their views on Russia/Putin without considering the corruption in Ukraine. Its why I made a post of the timeline of history because criticism of Ukraine usually gets called "Russian propoganda" but when you read into it there's vast corruption on both sides of Ukraine (west v east) and the problems have been there for years. Personally I don't trust the west either because just like Russia they also have ulterior motives and that's what's frustrating for me too. Does the west or Russia have Ukranians best interests at heart? I don't think so. Eastern Ukranians are/have been facing oppression from Western backed Kyiv. And I'm sure the same goes the other way round too. Securing the borders is no good for eastern ukranians who are being oppressed by their own leaders. It needs a road to peace not just making Russia surrender. As thst doesn't bring peace internally. I don't think we should be standing with Israel personally. They always put their interests above other countries and were very happy to profiteer of Argentina by selling them weapons to be used against British soldiers during the Fawklands. What wars or conflicts have Israel supported us in? We owe them nothing and Iran is the very reason why we shouldn't be supporting them. They're also regularly lobbying ourselves and American politicians with money to serve their own interests above the interests of our own people. We'd be much better off cutting ties in my opinion. Israeli companies are behind alot of the misinformation and culture wars in the UK too. Anyway above everything else, I just hope we begin the pathway to peace rather than escalation. A world war on the horizon with todays weapons deeply concerns me and is something we should all be striving to avoid.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 22, 2024 14:51:34 GMT
I agree with your comments on Ukraine and have posted on here before that the most corrupt country in Europe has invaded the second most corrupt. That does not mean we should not help defend them against the invader. History teaches us that people like Putin, Hitler, Napoleon, etc don't stop. What's more China will start expanding. We are right to stand beside Israel without condoning what their government does. If we don't stand with Israel against Iran and the rest the result will be loss of their homeland and at best 6 million refugees, or far worse genocide than what is happening in Gaza. I just think it's incredibly complex and some people are blinded by their views on Russia/Putin without considering the corruption in Ukraine. Its why I made a post of the timeline of history because criticism of Ukraine usually gets called "Russian propoganda" but when you read into it there's vast corruption on both sides of Ukraine (west v east) and the problems have been there for years. Personally I don't trust the west either because just like Russia they also have ulterior motives and that's what's frustrating for me too. Does the west or Russia have Ukranians best interests at heart? I don't think so. Eastern Ukranians are/have been facing oppression from Western backed Kyiv. And I'm sure the same goes the other way round too. Securing the borders is no good for eastern ukranians who are being oppressed by their own leaders. It needs a road to peace not just making Russia surrender. As thst doesn't bring peace internally. I don't think we should be standing with Israel personally. They always put their interests above other countries and were very happy to profiteer of Argentina by selling them weapons to be used against British soldiers during the Fawklands. What wars or conflicts have Israel supported us in? We owe them nothing and Iran is the very reason why we shouldn't be supporting them. They're also regularly lobbying ourselves and American politicians with money to serve their own interests above the interests of our own people. We'd be much better off cutting ties in my opinion. Israeli companies are behind alot of the misinformation and culture wars in the UK too. Anyway above everything else, I just hope we begin the pathway to peace rather than escalation. A world war on the horizon with todays weapons deeply concerns me and is something we should all be striving to avoid. Thankyou for your reply. I would make two observations: On Ukraine are you happy with the EU falling over themselves in making overture for them to join? In the case of Israel arms supplies, I'm not an expert but I have been told by a friend of Israel who visits regularly that the UK is more dependant of Israel arms supply than Israel is on the UK which is relatively minor. Do you have the same antagonism towards France who supplied Exocet missiles to Argentina? We should be wary of condemning the whole of a country and nation because of their government. Would we want the UK to be judged solely on our governments? Israel is a democracy and voted in their present government and they can vote them out of power at the next election. Gaza voted in Hamas who promptly got rid of their opposition and now hide behind civilians in schools and hospitals- yes OK - it may or may not be true. But is is true they have used aid for war, such as water pipes supplied as aid used as rocket launchers.
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 22, 2024 15:22:42 GMT
Something burning at a port in russian-occupied Crimea.
The pro-Ukraine claims are that one of their Neptun missilles hit a russian rail ferry ship that was carrying fuel. I haven't seen proof but that would be a great result.
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