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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 16, 2024 3:26:31 GMT
From a Ukrainian commander:
"As for ammunition, the news is getting better and better: projectiles are beginning to arrive not only to the artillery brigades, but also to the regular, mechanized ones, which not so long ago were less equipped with BC for artillery, so the trend is getting better.
However, more often there are problems with the wear of the barrels, which should be noticed in time and send the guns for repair."
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Post by musik on Jun 16, 2024 9:42:58 GMT
Should of shot the fucker down under the guise of a training exercise Back in 2015, Turkey shot down the russian jet that screwed with them. Russia squealed a lot then made sure not to do it again. Did anyone die? |
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Post by musik on Jun 16, 2024 9:44:47 GMT
Fantastic. Dogs are more clever than many people. |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jun 16, 2024 13:14:34 GMT
More T-62’s are getting destroyed and more are arriving. Pure desperation from Russia that the losses of these tanks from the 60s are getting higher and higher. Got to be fake or from a play station game or something. There are no shadows cast from structures in front the very bright lights in the background. There are dozens of these type of claims using video game footage from planes being shot down to ships being sunk in Crimea. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 16, 2024 13:16:21 GMT
More T-62’s are getting destroyed and more are arriving. Pure desperation from Russia that the losses of these tanks from the 60s are getting higher and higher. Got to be fake or from a play station game or something. There are no shadows cast from structures in front the very bright lights in the background. There are dozens of these type of claims using video game footage from planes being shot down to ships being sunk in Crimea. It’s clearly real. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 16, 2024 15:33:29 GMT
Back in 2015, Turkey shot down the russian jet that screwed with them. Russia squealed a lot then made sure not to do it again. Did anyone die? Yeah. It was a two-seat Su-24 and both crew bailed so they would have been ok except they entered Turkey from Syria and Syrian rebels were close enough to snipe one of them in their parachutes. They were warned like 10 times not to enter Turkey and kept pushing it. You have to shoot them down to stop them escalating and making things riskier. |
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jun 16, 2024 15:34:36 GMT
More T-62’s are getting destroyed and more are arriving. Pure desperation from Russia that the losses of these tanks from the 60s are getting higher and higher. Got to be fake or from a play station game or something. There are no shadows cast from structures in front the very bright lights in the background. There are dozens of these type of claims using video game footage from planes being shot down to ships being sunk in Crimea. If it is fake, then the video game is seriously detailed as each of the first four tanks has a very minor difference. I would expect them to be identical or have larger differences. |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jun 16, 2024 16:00:11 GMT
Got to be fake or from a play station game or something. There are no shadows cast from structures in front the very bright lights in the background. There are dozens of these type of claims using video game footage from planes being shot down to ships being sunk in Crimea. If it is fake, then the video game is seriously detailed as each of the first four tanks has a very minor difference. I would expect them to be identical or have larger differences. No shadows cast is the give away for me. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 16, 2024 16:05:05 GMT
Got to be fake or from a play station game or something. There are no shadows cast from structures in front the very bright lights in the background. There are dozens of these type of claims using video game footage from planes being shot down to ships being sunk in Crimea. If it is fake, then the video game is seriously detailed as each of the first four tanks has a very minor difference. I would expect them to be identical or have larger differences. Lawrie's right to question, I've fallen for a few and they've got awfully convincing. I'm with Bayern on this one though. For AI: these look like T-62s. The wheel gap, muzzle break etc are in the right places. Every AI I've seen fucks up tanks. Videogame wise, I think the bright light offscreen to the left is a bit like how floodlights give players 4 pale shadows on the pitch, but it's hard to see them when you're front row. The dirty uneven ground hides the remaining shadow. Satellite pics show T-62s are leaving storage yards, turning up at the Omsktransmash repair base, then moving on. Russian soldiers have been posting VK (basically Facebook) videos using them, and Ukrainian drone video shows about 10 blowing up per month. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 17, 2024 15:32:01 GMT
We don't get that balance or historical context though unless we look for it. The response to Israel conflict wasn't handled the best either by the west. But people were more educated on the history there and thus the discontent has forced the west to change their tune. So personally I cannot just listen to one side and trust them to tell the truth when in other recent conflicts they haven't. 3 truths. Theirs, ours and the truth. The stuff I posted was mostly from Wikipedia and I feel is important context which many in the west aren't aware of. Alot of it was new to me because I went looking for more background as I feel alot of our media has under reported that since 2022. Those are all fair points mate, looking into things is something I really support. There are a few thinking processes I use that I realise are pretty weird - but might explain how I get to my opinions. Involves having a mental model of what's going on, updating it with s new evidence, asking "so what" about new evidence, and comparing like-with-like. It's why I have a strong "side" on the Allies vs. Nazi Germany or Ukraine vs. russia but not on Israel-Palestine. For example, compare like-with-like. Treatment of prisoners of war.
We have many videos of russians shooting unarmed surrendering Ukrainians who were just lying there. There are videos of Ukrainians shooting armed russians who were 'surrendering', one where the russian tries to draw a pistol, several where they pulled pins on grenades, and one where several russians left a building to go onto the floor and the last one ran out with an assault rifle and let rip on the Ukrainians. In all of the cases I've seen russian propaganda push abuse, the actual case was that the russian soldiers were committing perfidy and the Ukrainians were acting in self defence.
Ukrainians encourage surrender (they have a whole "I want to live" phone line etc) and keep thousands of POWs in prisons where human rights investigators and journalists have access to ensure that the prisoners' rights are being respected. Russia doesn't allow inspectors, and most prisoners are lucky to get one call. When they're released, they're emaciated, and over 90% report abuse. Now of course - you can't trust what POWs say because they might be under threat, but there is nothing more Ukraine can do, and after prisoner exchanges russian media shows healthy looking men returning, who don't talk about being tortured. At least on their main propaganda channels. Unlike returning Ukrainians.
We have videos from russians of them beating Ukrainians, chaining them into stress positions, skinning them alive, cutting off body parts, electrocuting them. It's standard russian practice, which we know in part because their torture chambers are standardised. Whether a town is liberated in Kherson or 400 miles away in Kharkiv, the torture chambers follow the same design. Most importantly the russian government and command support and encourage it. We have a couple of videos of potential abuses by Ukrainians that the government came out and openly said "this looks bad, we disagree with this and we are investigating".
On top of this, russia is the unprovoked aggressor and Ukraine is acting in self defence. It would be far more understandable if Ukraine was worse than russia, but they're better.
There is no fucking world in which "BuT BoThSiDeS" is remotely fair for comparing russia and Ukraine. Ukraine is imperfect, russia is monstrously evil.
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Jun 18, 2024 10:27:43 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 18, 2024 12:06:33 GMT
Think I'd develop a severe case of bone spurs... |
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Post by adri2008 on Jun 18, 2024 14:14:38 GMT
Can't say I'd be overly keen getting minimal training so that I can get blown to pieces in attritional warfare. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 18, 2024 15:34:49 GMT
It's so sad that mobilisation is needed. One of the idiotic things Ukraine did was to shorten training to to 6 weeks. Partly trying to fix their politicians' idiocy of delaying mobilisation. Also largely because of ammo starvation. We can help by sending the equipment Ukraine needs to save its people's lives. Some of the individual brigades are apparently doing a better job. They have a good reputation for being skilled and successful and looking after their recruits, so they get volunteers. Regardless, it's so much worse being a Ukrainian in the russian occupied parts, but either way it's fucking horrible. Russia should just go home. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 18, 2024 16:08:34 GMT
Few random bits of related news. Today Estonia remembers the anniversary of russia invading them in 1940. Followed by decades of gulags and the usual russian shite. Russian Investigators want to prosecute a Ukrainian for shooting down their expensive A-50 radar plane in February. 😂 At the time they said it was russian friendly fire. Link. NATO defence spending keeps rising, most members now hit the 2% target agreed after Russia's first invasion of Ukraine in 2014. Link. Ukrainian units say they found another of their soldiers beheaded. Sounds like he sadly surrendered to Russia, and got typical treatment. Link. This one isn't proven except for a picture of a severed head, but I've seen russians cutting up Ukrainians and planting body parts on spikes, then boasting about it, so it's believable. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 18, 2024 16:32:26 GMT
This guy is fighting in northern Kharkiv région, where Russia crossed the border early May.
He says russia is taking massive casualties. They've moved over reinforcements and have one unit with decent armour waiting to go. Mainly infantry so far though. There's a pile of blown up diggers about a mile into Ukraine, so they've not properly dug in yet.
Russia is dropping tons of glide bombs, but this lad says they haven't stop the Ukrainians. The info leaking out makes it sound like they're pushing the russians back.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 19, 2024 2:55:18 GMT
Russia took T-90S export tanks ordered by India and sent them to Ukraine. Then they delayed delivery of air defences India ordered. Now India is buying American to replace its russian designed 2,000 BMP-2 Infantry Fighting Vehicles. This sort of short sighted stuff is why I say Putin's burning russia's future to look strong in the short term. $2+ billion contract for IFVs lost, to add to the $4 bn naval jet contract they lost to the French last year. $6+ billion sacrificed in future orders just to get a few T-90S and a couple of S-400 batteries a year or two early. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 19, 2024 15:04:03 GMT
Russian military bases near Finland have been stripped of equipment to send to Ukraine.
Any time a russian tells you "we had to rape and murder Ukrainian children because we're scared of NATO", you can tell they're lying about being scared of NATO. They're disarming the border - they just want to control Ukraine.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 19, 2024 15:22:08 GMT
Random news from today.
Ukraine hit more oil refineries in russia, claims it used Neptune missiles rather than drones.
Putin visited North Korea to beg for more aid. Russia is nearing empty on its ammo and barrel stores and it can't make enough new ones.
Russia has moved in more reinforcements, most obviously look for news near Vovchansk, Borova and Chasiv Yar.
A Ukrainian artilleryman loves the German Pzh2000 guns. He says they're tougher so none destroyed so far, and crews survived when damaged.
Russian air force people are complaining that only 4 new Su-34 bombers were delivered so far this year.
A soldier fighting near Chasiv Yar says: russia is "putting everything they have for these two or three months in order to make a breakthrough at the front. This is their impression, the last rush before something, because they gathered everything they could in terms of people and equipment".
These 2-3 months are the "republican opened window" I kept talking about, although I think they need to start moving on it soon because it is closing quickly.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 20, 2024 4:46:58 GMT
A company of Ukraine's third assault brigade has released a video of their drone strikes during May.
They count 250 russians hit with explosives. That's just the drones from one company during one month.
The russians are really using meat wave tactics and it's costing them so many lives. It's almost impossible to imagine how horrifying the modern drone war must be for someone on the front lines.
There are also videos where the russians refuse to attack or try to run away, and they're shot by so-called "barrier troops" on their own side.
They should just surrender.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 20, 2024 10:01:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2024 12:53:00 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 20, 2024 14:56:32 GMT
5-6 Russian oil refineries or depots attacked this week. One of them was on fire for at least 36 hours, might still be burning.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 20, 2024 15:32:45 GMT
Please be true! I didn't realise until the full scale invasion how huge a deal the SK military industry is. It'll be even bigger news if the SK government can donate. It would punish Putin for working with NK and send a message not to go further. SK is an artillery superpower. They have about 1,000 modified M109 artillery pieces they're putting in storage since they're building replacements. That'd be enough to supply Ukraine's needs for 3 years. They also make ammo, jets, tanks, missile launchers... |
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Post by steve66 on Jun 20, 2024 17:10:55 GMT
Please be true! I didn't realise until the full scale invasion how huge a deal the SK military industry is. It'll be even bigger news if the SK government can donate. It would punish Putin for working with NK and send a message not to go further. SK is an artillery superpower. They have about 1,000 modified M109 artillery pieces they're putting in storage since they're building replacements. That'd be enough to supply Ukraine's needs for 3 years. They also make ammo, jets, tanks, missile launchers... Let’s hope & pray it happens |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 21, 2024 3:22:38 GMT
Video does seem to show multiple blasts at a russian air base.
After the last airbase attack the russians moved stuff before the satellite pics so it was hard to tell if there was damage.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 21, 2024 3:46:18 GMT
Ukraine reopened their ports and are now shipping more than before.
There was originally a deal until russia demanded more concessions. Ukraine ignored the russian squealing and just kept sinking the Black Sea Fleet until the ports were open.
That's how you negotiate with Putin.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jun 21, 2024 7:50:33 GMT
Ukraine reopened their ports and are now shipping more than before. There was originally a deal until russia demanded more concessions. Ukraine ignored the russian squealing and just kept sinking the Black Sea Fleet until the ports were open. That's how you negotiate with Putin. Thanks as always for the continued updates, you'd just like to see a real momentum swing and consistent victories however modest meted out to these bastards. |
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Post by Gawa on Jun 21, 2024 11:34:08 GMT
We don't get that balance or historical context though unless we look for it. The response to Israel conflict wasn't handled the best either by the west. But people were more educated on the history there and thus the discontent has forced the west to change their tune. So personally I cannot just listen to one side and trust them to tell the truth when in other recent conflicts they haven't. 3 truths. Theirs, ours and the truth. The stuff I posted was mostly from Wikipedia and I feel is important context which many in the west aren't aware of. Alot of it was new to me because I went looking for more background as I feel alot of our media has under reported that since 2022. Those are all fair points mate, looking into things is something I really support. There are a few thinking processes I use that I realise are pretty weird - but might explain how I get to my opinions. Involves having a mental model of what's going on, updating it with s new evidence, asking "so what" about new evidence, and comparing like-with-like. It's why I have a strong "side" on the Allies vs. Nazi Germany or Ukraine vs. russia but not on Israel-Palestine. For example, compare like-with-like. Treatment of prisoners of war.
We have many videos of russians shooting unarmed surrendering Ukrainians who were just lying there. There are videos of Ukrainians shooting armed russians who were 'surrendering', one where the russian tries to draw a pistol, several where they pulled pins on grenades, and one where several russians left a building to go onto the floor and the last one ran out with an assault rifle and let rip on the Ukrainians. In all of the cases I've seen russian propaganda push abuse, the actual case was that the russian soldiers were committing perfidy and the Ukrainians were acting in self defence.
Ukrainians encourage surrender (they have a whole "I want to live" phone line etc) and keep thousands of POWs in prisons where human rights investigators and journalists have access to ensure that the prisoners' rights are being respected. Russia doesn't allow inspectors, and most prisoners are lucky to get one call. When they're released, they're emaciated, and over 90% report abuse. Now of course - you can't trust what POWs say because they might be under threat, but there is nothing more Ukraine can do, and after prisoner exchanges russian media shows healthy looking men returning, who don't talk about being tortured. At least on their main propaganda channels. Unlike returning Ukrainians.
We have videos from russians of them beating Ukrainians, chaining them into stress positions, skinning them alive, cutting off body parts, electrocuting them. It's standard russian practice, which we know in part because their torture chambers are standardised. Whether a town is liberated in Kherson or 400 miles away in Kharkiv, the torture chambers follow the same design. Most importantly the russian government and command support and encourage it. We have a couple of videos of potential abuses by Ukrainians that the government came out and openly said "this looks bad, we disagree with this and we are investigating".
On top of this, russia is the unprovoked aggressor and Ukraine is acting in self defence. It would be far more understandable if Ukraine was worse than russia, but they're better.
There is no fucking world in which "BuT BoThSiDeS" is remotely fair for comparing russia and Ukraine. Ukraine is imperfect, russia is monstrously evil.
See the way I analyse is slightly different. I work with the understanding that propaganda is a tool all nations use so then I try to decipher the motivations behind why countries/groups may perform a particular action and what they could gain or lose through such an action. I then also try to do my own independent background research (such as using wiki in this instance) on those involved and what may have led them to the current predicament. So one example would be the ISIS attack on Moscow. That is just very weird and strange for me. While ISIS and Russia don't have the same goals - they do have a common enemy you could argue. So I just don't understand the motivation behind ISIS doing an attack in Moscow. What do ISIS gain? Very little. What does Russia lose? Potentially causes fear within Russia about terrorist attacks and concerns for their safety from outside attackers. Similarly there was the gas pipe that was damaged or something between Russia and Germany or something like that? Why would Russia destroy that, what is the motivation or gain? Why when Russia proposed an independent investigation at the UN did countries abstain from the vote? And why do we still not have clarity over who did it? In terms of your things that you've seen Russians do, I'm not here to contest that. I haven't seen any of the videos or really gone looking for stuff like that. But I do go back to my first paragraph in terms of processing that information. What can be gained from videos of you abusing and mistreating prisoners of war? Very little you'd like to hope. I'd like to think most British people would be opposed and disgusting by our army doing that. I do recognise however that there are evil bastards out there which likely do it because they get a kick out of it and that's their individual motivation. But in terms of a state there isn't any benefit to publicising that. There is however a benefit from exposing your enemy doing it. It rallies support for the war and paints the enemy in an unfavourable light. We seen this in Gaza were Israel implied that babies were cooked in ovens and beheaded and then our media and politicians spread it like wildfire before it was disproven. Initially though before it was found to be fake, we had people like Piers Morgan referencing it and attacking peace activists as if they justify that behaviour. So having witnessed that, I think there is motivation from both sides to paint the other as bastards. So how do you decipher that? How can we be confident the pictures of Ukrainian soldiers doing stuff aren't Russians in Ukrainian uniforms and vice versa? Alot of the bad things you say Russia have done, we have done too. Both the US and UK were found to have officers who took part in killing civilians, torture, rape, secret detention, cruel and inhumane treatment etc.. www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/iraq-twenty-years-still-no-justice-war-crimes-us-led-coalitionSo I don't think that by pointing to alleged crimes that some Russian soldiers have done is a justification to support a particular side. That would be like me saying I support Russia because the west have done some awful war crimes. And one short note on prisoners too. Israel has thousands of Palestine "prisoners" detained. I say it like that because it's in their law that they can detain Palestine's without trial. If the same law applied to Palestine then they'd be calling their hostages prisoners due to legalities. I don't doubt there are many Palestine prisoners imprisoned for the right reasons too btw but I presume many of them are also detained for the wrong reasons. When you compare how those prisoners come out compared to the hostages living in war territory and suffering famine come out - it's polar opposites. But we don't get told about those Palestine prisoners, their treatment, how they get detained, the laws behind it.... unless we look for it. What we get told is "Israel has the right to defend itself" and those Israeli hostages are worth more than the thousands of Palestine's detained against their will and being treated inhumanely with rape, torture etc.. Now I personally think all prisoners should be treated humanely despite their crimes. But again I go back to how I think - motivations. So Palestine for instance. If they have been treated so badly when imprisoned in Israel, why would they want to treat Israeli hostages well? Hamas are evil and do terrible crimes so why would they not punish hostages like many palestines have been - you sort of presume they would. My guess is they want to try and get those prisoners on side, treat them well, look after them, explain their message and send them back to their communities were potentially having experienced the attacks from Israel on Gaza territory they may see things differently. Now that comes at a risk because of course the Israeli government would not want those hostages spreading positive messages on their captors. But I can see that as a motivation. Whereas I think Palestine people imprisoned with no reason who have already experienced oppression throughout their lives are hardly going to change their view on Israel after a short stay. So I can see why there is less motivation to treat them well. It doesn't make it right. I imagine with Ukraine/Russia there are probably similar motivations at play behind the rationale of why they do certain things. And again I dont doubt many bastards too as well. I disagree that Russia is an unprovoked aggressor as per the stuff I posted in my earlier post from wikipedia research. The aggression first started within Ukraine and their treatment of those on the border areas. Russia will have an interest in those communities just like Ireland has an interest in communities in Northern Ireland because historically they were together. So by changing the names of towns, cities, changing languages etc... that is an attack on the culture of many of those people who probably have ancestoral links to Russia. Just like what Britain did to catholics was an attack on those who identified historically as Irish. And Ireland and Irish people had an interest in that. It's much more complex than Russia just needlessly attacking Ukraine. As pointed out before only 10% of Ukranians I believe had trust in the courts? There was rife corruption going on. I disagree again. There are three sides to every story, theirs, ours and the truth. And I still believe that and I also believe that the majority of Russian people are probably good people who just want a peaceful and prosperous life like ourselves. Like Ukranians, like Israelis, like palestines. I'd like to finish this by asking you. You've pointed out at various times about Russian propoganda. Can you provide me some examples of Western propoganda on the conflict in Ukraine which you've identified so far? |
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Post by steve66 on Jun 21, 2024 14:41:09 GMT
Those are all fair points mate, looking into things is something I really support. There are a few thinking processes I use that I realise are pretty weird - but might explain how I get to my opinions. Involves having a mental model of what's going on, updating it with s new evidence, asking "so what" about new evidence, and comparing like-with-like. It's why I have a strong "side" on the Allies vs. Nazi Germany or Ukraine vs. russia but not on Israel-Palestine. For example, compare like-with-like. Treatment of prisoners of war.
We have many videos of russians shooting unarmed surrendering Ukrainians who were just lying there. There are videos of Ukrainians shooting armed russians who were 'surrendering', one where the russian tries to draw a pistol, several where they pulled pins on grenades, and one where several russians left a building to go onto the floor and the last one ran out with an assault rifle and let rip on the Ukrainians. In all of the cases I've seen russian propaganda push abuse, the actual case was that the russian soldiers were committing perfidy and the Ukrainians were acting in self defence.
Ukrainians encourage surrender (they have a whole "I want to live" phone line etc) and keep thousands of POWs in prisons where human rights investigators and journalists have access to ensure that the prisoners' rights are being respected. Russia doesn't allow inspectors, and most prisoners are lucky to get one call. When they're released, they're emaciated, and over 90% report abuse. Now of course - you can't trust what POWs say because they might be under threat, but there is nothing more Ukraine can do, and after prisoner exchanges russian media shows healthy looking men returning, who don't talk about being tortured. At least on their main propaganda channels. Unlike returning Ukrainians.
We have videos from russians of them beating Ukrainians, chaining them into stress positions, skinning them alive, cutting off body parts, electrocuting them. It's standard russian practice, which we know in part because their torture chambers are standardised. Whether a town is liberated in Kherson or 400 miles away in Kharkiv, the torture chambers follow the same design. Most importantly the russian government and command support and encourage it. We have a couple of videos of potential abuses by Ukrainians that the government came out and openly said "this looks bad, we disagree with this and we are investigating".
On top of this, russia is the unprovoked aggressor and Ukraine is acting in self defence. It would be far more understandable if Ukraine was worse than russia, but they're better.
There is no fucking world in which "BuT BoThSiDeS" is remotely fair for comparing russia and Ukraine. Ukraine is imperfect, russia is monstrously evil.
See the way I analyse is slightly different. I work with the understanding that propaganda is a tool all nations use so then I try to decipher the motivations behind why countries/groups may perform a particular action and what they could gain or lose through such an action. I then also try to do my own independent background research (such as using wiki in this instance) on those involved and what may have led them to the current predicament. So one example would be the ISIS attack on Moscow. That is just very weird and strange for me. While ISIS and Russia don't have the same goals - they do have a common enemy you could argue. So I just don't understand the motivation behind ISIS doing an attack in Moscow. What do ISIS gain? Very little. What does Russia lose? Potentially causes fear within Russia about terrorist attacks and concerns for their safety from outside attackers. Similarly there was the gas pipe that was damaged or something between Russia and Germany or something like that? Why would Russia destroy that, what is the motivation or gain? Why when Russia proposed an independent investigation at the UN did countries abstain from the vote? And why do we still not have clarity over who did it? In terms of your things that you've seen Russians do, I'm not here to contest that. I haven't seen any of the videos or really gone looking for stuff like that. But I do go back to my first paragraph in terms of processing that information. What can be gained from videos of you abusing and mistreating prisoners of war? Very little you'd like to hope. I'd like to think most British people would be opposed and disgusting by our army doing that. I do recognise however that there are evil bastards out there which likely do it because they get a kick out of it and that's their individual motivation. But in terms of a state there isn't any benefit to publicising that. There is however a benefit from exposing your enemy doing it. It rallies support for the war and paints the enemy in an unfavourable light. We seen this in Gaza were Israel implied that babies were cooked in ovens and beheaded and then our media and politicians spread it like wildfire before it was disproven. Initially though before it was found to be fake, we had people like Piers Morgan referencing it and attacking peace activists as if they justify that behaviour. So having witnessed that, I think there is motivation from both sides to paint the other as bastards. So how do you decipher that? How can we be confident the pictures of Ukrainian soldiers doing stuff aren't Russians in Ukrainian uniforms and vice versa? Alot of the bad things you say Russia have done, we have done too. Both the US and UK were found to have officers who took part in killing civilians, torture, rape, secret detention, cruel and inhumane treatment etc.. www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/iraq-twenty-years-still-no-justice-war-crimes-us-led-coalitionSo I don't think that by pointing to alleged crimes that some Russian soldiers have done is a justification to support a particular side. That would be like me saying I support Russia because the west have done some awful war crimes. And one short note on prisoners too. Israel has thousands of Palestine "prisoners" detained. I say it like that because it's in their law that they can detain Palestine's without trial. If the same law applied to Palestine then they'd be calling their hostages prisoners due to legalities. I don't doubt there are many Palestine prisoners imprisoned for the right reasons too btw but I presume many of them are also detained for the wrong reasons. When you compare how those prisoners come out compared to the hostages living in war territory and suffering famine come out - it's polar opposites. But we don't get told about those Palestine prisoners, their treatment, how they get detained, the laws behind it.... unless we look for it. What we get told is "Israel has the right to defend itself" and those Israeli hostages are worth more than the thousands of Palestine's detained against their will and being treated inhumanely with rape, torture etc.. Now I personally think all prisoners should be treated humanely despite their crimes. But again I go back to how I think - motivations. So Palestine for instance. If they have been treated so badly when imprisoned in Israel, why would they want to treat Israeli hostages well? Hamas are evil and do terrible crimes so why would they not punish hostages like many palestines have been - you sort of presume they would. My guess is they want to try and get those prisoners on side, treat them well, look after them, explain their message and send them back to their communities were potentially having experienced the attacks from Israel on Gaza territory they may see things differently. Now that comes at a risk because of course the Israeli government would not want those hostages spreading positive messages on their captors. But I can see that as a motivation. Whereas I think Palestine people imprisoned with no reason who have already experienced oppression throughout their lives are hardly going to change their view on Israel after a short stay. So I can see why there is less motivation to treat them well. It doesn't make it right. I imagine with Ukraine/Russia there are probably similar motivations at play behind the rationale of why they do certain things. And again I dont doubt many bastards too as well. I disagree that Russia is an unprovoked aggressor as per the stuff I posted in my earlier post from wikipedia research. The aggression first started within Ukraine and their treatment of those on the border areas. Russia will have an interest in those communities just like Ireland has an interest in communities in Northern Ireland because historically they were together. So by changing the names of towns, cities, changing languages etc... that is an attack on the culture of many of those people who probably have ancestoral links to Russia. Just like what Britain did to catholics was an attack on those who identified historically as Irish. And Ireland and Irish people had an interest in that. It's much more complex than Russia just needlessly attacking Ukraine. As pointed out before only 10% of Ukranians I believe had trust in the courts? There was rife corruption going on. I disagree again. There are three sides to every story, theirs, ours and the truth. And I still believe that and I also believe that the majority of Russian people are probably good people who just want a peaceful and prosperous life like ourselves. Like Ukranians, like Israelis, like palestines. I'd like to finish this by asking you. You've pointed out at various times about Russian propoganda. Can you provide me some examples of Western propoganda on the conflict in Ukraine which you've identified so far? Anyone do a shortened version? |
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