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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 2, 2024 20:22:09 GMT
I wonder how the pro war folk on here will feel about Ukraines territorial integrity when this absolute shit show affects them in a very direct way ? … it’s easy to sit thousands of miles away cheering it on when others are bearing the brunt of it, it’s easy to fight till the last drop of Ukrainian blood, but when it comes home to roost these same warmongers will shit in their pants! I have absolutely no faith that the Churchill fetishist pretend leaders in the west will keep us out of a direct war with Russia and likely China! Clueless, Absolute wankers each and every one of them! Just as with Israel, we have no national interest in supporting Ukraine, there’s no benefit for us, it’s all detrimental, the best thing we could do now is call for talks, negotiate and normalise relations with Russia, trade is the key to peace! Of course we have a national interest. War in Europe is of interest to us. Quite clearly. The only talks that should be had is Russia returning all of the land they have invaded since 2014 and they get rid of Putin and have some elections. |
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 2, 2024 20:49:10 GMT
I don't think that it's right, no. I still think that there is a distinction between bundling people into a van to throw into a meatgrinder in a foreign country that you're invading, and dragging people off the street to defend in an existential war. War is simply horrific. Where is this discussion going, though? Nowhere in particular, I was just interested in people's reactions to it on here and in particular people being unable to condemn Ukraine. I've noticed today, that there has been far more discussion about it online. The video is literally EVERYWHERE, maybe I was guilty of raising the question too soon. Got it. I'm sorry, I think I'm a bit ground down by the number of really bad gotcha takes of 'this Ukrainian person did a bad thing, therefore they're just as bad as the Russians and deserve to be marmalised by them', usually followed by 'anyway, this is all the West's fault and Ukraine were asking for it, they could always have just negotiated'. There's a lot of that sort of false equivalence out there and I think that probably does stifle discussion a touch. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2024 0:37:51 GMT
I wonder how the pro war folk on here will feel about Ukraines territorial integrity when this absolute shit show affects them in a very direct way ? … it’s easy to sit thousands of miles away cheering it on when others are bearing the brunt of it, it’s easy to fight till the last drop of Ukrainian blood, but when it comes home to roost these same warmongers will shit in their pants! I have absolutely no faith that the Churchill fetishist pretend leaders in the west will keep us out of a direct war with Russia and likely China! Clueless, Absolute wankers each and every one of them! Just as with Israel, we have no national interest in supporting Ukraine, there’s no benefit for us, it’s all detrimental, the best thing we could do now is call for talks, negotiate and normalise relations with Russia, trade is the key to peace! If trade were the key to peace in this instance, why did Russia upset it by going to war? Given that it’s hurt the Russian economy, why haven’t there been calls within Russia to stop? Trade is incredibly important but sometimes, short little wankers just have to flex their meagre peckers. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 3, 2024 1:34:54 GMT
I was in Nantwich a few weeks ago and there were ruSSians there who have fled ruSSia to avoid being called up. I had to ask what they thought of Putin and they hate him. They said it’s the older generation who support him and not the younger generation, long term ruSSia are screwed If they were being honest then good on 'em in my book. So long as they're willing to work. I can't blame anyone who just wants out of russia. Hope rebuilding a free and peaceful Russia is an option for them sometime in the future, or that they get a good life settled in the west. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 3, 2024 1:53:08 GMT
I don't know. There have been tons of fake videos spread by the russians. Ukraine has a mobilisation law passed by the democratically elected government. I talk regularly with people in Ukrainian cities who tell me that they see the law being followed. If the law is violated, that is bad. And there are strong social pressures to fix it. Remember that russia force mobilises Ukrainians and uses them as meat shields. They have been sent to the slaughter en masse. Those who russians think are a risk are sent to basement torture chambers or shot in the back of the head. Pushing russian propaganda narratives is sick. I thought elections were suspended in Ukraine and if so then democracy is on hold there? The Ukrainian constitution bans elections during martial law. It'd be hard to run with Russia seeing polling stations as juicy targets. I count the government as legitimately elected because they were, and I don't think there's much argument until now since major laws were drafted during their expected term. Parliamentary elections were due late last year and presidential this year. It's gonna get trickier for Ukraine and perceived legitimacy could fade. Russian propagandists are gonna hype this. We can try and read into a March poll. Zelenskyy was only at 24%, behind General Zaluzhnyi, who isn't even running, at 41%. I read that as Ukrainians want victory, and also Zelenskyy can't just rely on their support, which is good. My best case is Ukraine wins around 2026 and Zelenskyy gets the fuck out to drink a well-deserved beer on some beach, letting voters pick their own Attlee. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 3, 2024 2:11:09 GMT
I'm not spreading propaganda, it's been reported in the mainstream press (both right and left) FFS! And I'm simply asking you if you're OK with it? A question that you're seemingly struggling to answer. Replying that 'Russia has no right to be in Ukraine' and talking about the difference between unprovoked agression vs self defence is just deflection, to avoid answering the question, nobody has remotely suggested any of that. As I said, I think it is wrong in both Ukraine and Russia but for some reason you seem unable to condemn it both countries. I'm not ok with what that video looks like. Like olgrgrim, I see a big focus on Ukrainian mistakes as deflection and shifting the blame from the fucking evil genocidal dictatorship to the victim. It's important to talk about because Ukraine is learning how to fight corruption still. But the context is extremely important. It doesn't seem to be government accepted policy, which is important. Unlike Russia, which encourages, rewards and honours people who oversee the intentional slaughter of innocent civilians. There's just no moral equivalence here, and anything that tries to hint at it sets me off a bit. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 3, 2024 2:12:29 GMT
I wonder how the pro war folk on here will feel about Ukraines territorial integrity when this absolute shit show affects them in a very direct way ? … it’s easy to sit thousands of miles away cheering it on when others are bearing the brunt of it, it’s easy to fight till the last drop of Ukrainian blood, but when it comes home to roost these same warmongers will shit in their pants! If Ukraine wins we won't have to do anything. It'll stop russian wars and even save us a shitton of money because we won't have to build our own defences to handle an invasion from a bigger russian empire. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 3, 2024 2:20:20 GMT
Vovchansk/Kharkiv update
Russia said Ukraine was destroying Donetsk for ten years, but it's fine because Ukraine isn't full of monsters. Vovchansk is the town Russia invaded last month and look what they did to it in a few weeks. 😢
- One Ukrainian 53rd brigade soldier who was sent in early said they took extreme casualties. They couldn't shoot back at Russian artillery or jets.
- Other soldiers and a russian prisoner said Russia took extreme casualties too. Videos show a *lot* of russian corpses.
- A Ukrainian recon trooper said things got a bit better, russia can't reach Vovchansk by vehicles so all supplies etc are done on foot. Lots of russians dying.
- Russia screamed about how NATO weapons can't be fired into russia. Joe Biden FINALLY allowed some US weapons to fire in, and the results are sounding good, based on russian complaining. Very little visual proof.
- Russia has moved more reserves to the area and also tried one armoured attack. It was all old vehicles - the only tanks were T-62s and they lost four of them without getting anywhere useful.
Looks stable for now, but Vovchansk is destroyed.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 3, 2024 15:46:05 GMT
Mr. HIMARS sent some GMLRS rockets into Russia and blew up more $100 million air defence launchers 😂 a good start.
Like every single time that Russia screamed about "terrible consequences", they just sat their and took the hits.
I'm sure longdistancekiddie will be happy to tell us how many GMLRS the russians say they shot down and how nothing happened. 😉
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 3, 2024 15:56:58 GMT
Mr. HIMARS sent some GMLRS rockets into Russia and blew up more $100 million air defence launchers 😂 a good start. Like every single time that Russia screamed about "terrible consequences", they just sat their and took the hits. I'm sure longdistancekiddie will be happy to tell us how many GMLRS the russians say they shot down and how nothing happened. 😉 It is you who is happy to glorify war and bloodshed |
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Post by Northy on Jun 3, 2024 15:57:31 GMT
I wonder how the pro war folk on here will feel about Ukraines territorial integrity when this absolute shit show affects them in a very direct way ? … it’s easy to sit thousands of miles away cheering it on when others are bearing the brunt of it, it’s easy to fight till the last drop of Ukrainian blood, but when it comes home to roost these same warmongers will shit in their pants! I have absolutely no faith that the Churchill fetishist pretend leaders in the west will keep us out of a direct war with Russia and likely China! Clueless, Absolute wankers each and every one of them! Just as with Israel, we have no national interest in supporting Ukraine, there’s no benefit for us, it’s all detrimental, the best thing we could do now is call for talks, negotiate and normalise relations with Russia, trade is the key to peace! I don't think anyone on here is pro war, they just want the war mongering Putin and his cronies defeated one way or another. |
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 3, 2024 16:00:06 GMT
I wonder how the pro war folk on here will feel about Ukraines territorial integrity when this absolute shit show affects them in a very direct way ? … it’s easy to sit thousands of miles away cheering it on when others are bearing the brunt of it, it’s easy to fight till the last drop of Ukrainian blood, but when it comes home to roost these same warmongers will shit in their pants! If Ukraine wins we won't have to do anything. It'll stop russian wars and even save us a shitton of money because we won't have to build our own defences to handle an invasion from a bigger russian empire. What do we have to do to stop US wars and invasions, ?. Do you know what debt Ukraine has now, they will be paying it back for generations. And who are they paying it back to.? |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 3, 2024 16:01:38 GMT
Every single day Russia hits civilian targets while Ukraine hits convoys, ammunition dumps and missile systems.
Here Russia bombed a random village again.
On another video a russian drone group showed how they hunted down some evacuees being taken out by police. A lot of the evacuees are just pensioners who stuck around as long as they could. And the russians boast on their channels about trying to murder them.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 3, 2024 16:05:26 GMT
If Ukraine wins we won't have to do anything. It'll stop russian wars and even save us a shitton of money because we won't have to build our own defences to handle an invasion from a bigger russian empire. What do we have to do to stop US wars and invasions, ?. Do you know what debt Ukraine has now, they will be paying it back for generations. And who are they paying it back to.? Do you think Ukraine and Ukrainians have a right to exist? Do Ukrainians get to have a say in your world? Or only Russia? Do you think in WW2 we should have surrendered to Hitler to avoid debt? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 3, 2024 16:33:49 GMT
I wonder how the pro war folk on here will feel about Ukraines territorial integrity when this absolute shit show affects them in a very direct way ? … it’s easy to sit thousands of miles away cheering it on when others are bearing the brunt of it, it’s easy to fight till the last drop of Ukrainian blood, but when it comes home to roost these same warmongers will shit in their pants! I have absolutely no faith that the Churchill fetishist pretend leaders in the west will keep us out of a direct war with Russia and likely China! Clueless, Absolute wankers each and every one of them! Just as with Israel, we have no national interest in supporting Ukraine, there’s no benefit for us, it’s all detrimental, the best thing we could do now is call for talks, negotiate and normalise relations with Russia, trade is the key to peace! I don't think anyone on here is pro war, they just want the war mongering Putin and his cronies defeated one way or another. Yeah I’d be mad happy if they had never invaded Ukraine tbh. They have and are getting their arses kicked so let’s have more of it until they finallly leave. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 3, 2024 18:58:03 GMT
Example of how propaganda blurs things.
Russia said it conquered half of Vovchansk, now Ukraine says 60 russian soldiers surrendered there.
This video "proof" for Ukraine's claim is a soldier seemingly surrendering in the northeast of the city. The "where" is confirmed but the "when" isn't. Could be a Ukrainian from a while back, or could be one of the 60 surrenders that the Ukrainians claim.
So much bullshit floating around. All we know is that there was still fighting and bombing there until recently.
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Post by butlerstbob on Jun 3, 2024 19:40:35 GMT
If Ukraine wins we won't have to do anything. It'll stop russian wars and even save us a shitton of money because we won't have to build our own defences to handle an invasion from a bigger russian empire. What do we have to do to stop US wars and invasions, ?. Do you know what debt Ukraine has now, they will be paying it back for generations. And who are they paying it back to.? Do you know what debt the UK had after WW2? And that we only paid our final debt payment from WW2 in 2006! news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6215847.stmUkraine have to do what we did in WW1 & WW2 which is anything to survive! |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 4, 2024 2:49:17 GMT
Does anybody see a scenario where Ukraine (without NATO troops) has any chance to reclaim all of it's lost territory? - it feels like that opportunity has now been lost. If that is the case, then at what point do you think that a deal needs to be hammered out to preserve the lives of Ukrainian soldiers (or do they fight till the last man?)? I think we missed the best chance but Ukraine can still totally win. The military experts and soldiers say you need weapons and ammo to fight. Russia has been firing 5+ shells for each Ukrainian one, but next year we'll be making enough ammo for Ukraine to outshoot russia. Russia's freaking because they'd be fucked without another major change from that path. I hoped it'd happen sooner, but North Korea and MAGA Republicans threw in with Putin and bailed him out. Now Putin's best hopes are to crack Ukraine soon (doesn't look likely yet), or for pro-dictators in the west (like Trump) to bail him out. |
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jun 4, 2024 4:50:39 GMT
Does anybody see a scenario where Ukraine (without NATO troops) has any chance to reclaim all of it's lost territory? - it feels like that opportunity has now been lost. If that is the case, then at what point do you think that a deal needs to be hammered out to preserve the lives of Ukrainian soldiers (or do they fight till the last man?)? I think we missed the best chance but Ukraine can still totally win. The military experts and soldiers say you need weapons and ammo to fight. Russia is freaking because next year, instead of russia firing 5+ shells for each Ukrainian one like they have so far, we'll be making enough ammo for Ukraine to outshoot russia. Russia's been shooting more shells, but losing way more troops and tanks etc. They're fucked if they lose fire superiority. I hoped it'd happen sooner, but North Korea and MAGA Republicans threw in with Putin and bailed him out. Now Putin's best hopes are to crack Ukraine soon (doesn't look likely yet), or for pro-dictators in the west (like Trump) to bail him out. It's almost 'bizarre' if that's an appropriate word how warfare in this day and age can be described in a statistical way in terms of accurately calculated firing numbers. But then in reality I suppose it's always been that, if I'm firing 5 to your one then the outcome would favour me. Thanks for your continuing information. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 4, 2024 8:30:49 GMT
It’s crazy how bad the S-300 and S-400 air defence systems are.
They came into this war with a massive reputation and have been destroyed by what was considered obsolete tech.
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Post by hcstokie on Jun 4, 2024 10:47:47 GMT
It’s crazy how bad the S-300 and S-400 air defence systems are. They came into this war with a massive reputation and have been destroyed by what was considered obsolete tech. Agreed. The noises are that the F16s may finally be deployed this month as well, hence Ukraine hammering Russian air defence, so it may be an interesting few months to see how that impacts Russian losses. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 4, 2024 14:41:41 GMT
It’s crazy how bad the S-300 and S-400 air defence systems are. They came into this war with a massive reputation and have been destroyed by what was considered obsolete tech. Agreed. The noises are that the F16s may finally be deployed this month as well, hence Ukraine hammering Russian air defence, so it may be an interesting few months to see how that impacts Russian losses. Yeah that was my thought as they seem to be systematically taking them out. It would make a lot of sense that they’re clearing the way for a safer deployment. They’re clearly crap vs missiles but a fighter jet is a lot easier target if in range so taking them out makes sense. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 4, 2024 16:36:12 GMT
The video is too gruesome to show, but an example of one battle.
The town is called Novomikhailivka, it had a population under 1,500. It's smaller than Church Lawton and russia has lost at least 250 armoured vehicles attacking it so far.
The russians have gambled on Ukraine cracking, but the window republicans opened for Putin should close by around September. Every week they fail is good.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 4, 2024 16:47:15 GMT
There was another prisoner exchange recently. 75 Ukrainians returned.
Ukrainians who surrender are playing russian roulette. Lots of times the russians will shoot them as they surrender, many drone videos show it.
The unluckiest will be skinned alive or have bits sliced off while russians film and laugh. Then their heads or hands are put on spikes.
Russian command and the Russian government endorses and encourages this.
The luckiest ones look like the lad above. Beaten, electrocuted and kept barely alive, but eventually released.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 6, 2024 2:19:38 GMT
Ukraine hit another refinery, this time just next door in Rostov.
Apparently there are some parts that if you fuck up they're really slow and expensive to replace, and it can mess up the whole refinery.
Sadly, Ukraine's really slowed down after hitting one a week for a while.
Nice fire tonight though.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 6, 2024 2:21:13 GMT
Ukraine's power grid is screwed. The republican blockade that stopped extra air defence for six months opened them up really badly. It's gonna cost billions and billions to fix, and it's one of those things that could cost the war.
Gotta wonder if Mike Johnson is laughing to himself right now. 😢
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 6, 2024 15:07:44 GMT
Here's an example of why I respond strongly to these things mate. Russia films this stuff all the time, like capturing a "French NATO trainer" who apparently speaks French with a funny russian accent. Or videos of "Ukrainians" harassing russian speakers, but they showed a bit of road on video and it was filmed deep in russian controlled territory. They dress actors up in Ukrainian uniforms and have them doing loads of things. Dying, "shooting" prisoners, harassing civilians, pressganging etc. I've probably seen several per week for a couple of years now, so I'm a bit sensitive to the idea of just believing things Russia wants us to.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 6, 2024 15:12:21 GMT
Ok Russia's Black Sea Fleet has gone missing.
They'd pulled a lot back to Novorossiysk, Russia, out of the Crimean ports in occupied Ukraine.
Now they're gone?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 6, 2024 15:14:25 GMT
Here's an example of why I respond strongly to these things mate. Russia films this stuff all the time, like capturing a "French NATO trainer" who apparently speaks French with a funny russian accent. Or videos of "Ukrainians" harassing russian speakers, but they showed a bit of road on video and it was filmed deep in russian controlled territory. They dress actors up in Ukrainian uniforms and have them doing loads of things. Dying, "shooting" prisoners, harassing civilians, pressganging etc. I've probably seen several per week for a couple of years now, so I'm a bit sensitive to the idea of just believing things Russia wants us to. Except the video I posted has been verified as being genuine. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 6, 2024 15:26:13 GMT
Here's an example of why I respond strongly to these things mate. Russia films this stuff all the time, like capturing a "French NATO trainer" who apparently speaks French with a funny russian accent. Or videos of "Ukrainians" harassing russian speakers, but they showed a bit of road on video and it was filmed deep in russian controlled territory. They dress actors up in Ukrainian uniforms and have them doing loads of things. Dying, "shooting" prisoners, harassing civilians, pressganging etc. I've probably seen several per week for a couple of years now, so I'm a bit sensitive to the idea of just believing things Russia wants us to. Except the video I posted has been verified as being genuine. If it has then I said it looks wrong. Which is why I'm glad that it seems uncommon and against government policy, so they're fixing it. I also get a bit emotional because it feels unfair. For every one of these things done by a lower-level Ukrainian unit, there will be dozens or hundreds of far worse pressgangings done by russians. But they don't get the videos. It just feels unfair when the ratio of what's shown doesn't match reality, if you see what I mean? Like there should also be 10 or 100 videos of russians pressganging people on the streets of Donetsk and Luhansk. I haven't posted any of those so have at it! And it's worse by the russians because (i) it's often not their people, it's an occupier doing it and (ii) it's endorsed and supported by the central government. |
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