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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 24, 2022 13:35:14 GMT
Fishy.....
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Post by lordb on Feb 24, 2022 13:35:26 GMT
You are incredibly ignorant and on that note I'll leave you to spam away. I'm not ignorant. How is politics not part of a war. You haven't explained it. I'm all ears. Of course there is no answer because it's complete bollocks. I think your point is correct however I think the original post was intended to read something along then lines of internal UK political nuances are not directly related to this thread topic |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Feb 24, 2022 13:36:37 GMT
Bayern invades the EE side of the board.
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Post by Foster on Feb 24, 2022 13:36:44 GMT
You are incredibly ignorant and on that note I'll leave you to spam away. I'm not ignorant. How is politics not part of a war. You haven't explained it. I'm all ears. Of course there is no answer because it's complete bollocks. We've actually moved past party politics though. The general conversation on here was about what to do, not about who is in who's pocket or who voted for which party. All you're doing is pointing fingers... which is what the Russians want. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 24, 2022 13:36:48 GMT
So you don't think the Tory party are funded by Russians close to Putin? I mean he made an ex KGB officer a fucking Lord. He's in it up to his eyeballs. Why were the sanctions so weak that we did the other day? Do you think it was just a mistake? I couldnt give a shit who funds who, who backs who, whose side he or she is on. As long as me and my kids are safe Its a message board for opinions bayern - nothing more. I just simply dont understand some of your posts and the way you bring it across thats all...... I know Im not the sharpest knife in the door when it comes to this sort of stuff, but to try and get your head around some of the incomprehensible nonsense you come out with makes it doubly difficult sometimes. Theres plenty who post on this board who think they know whats going on and use it as if its their own extensive knowledge, when in reality they know about as much as me which is fuck all Again its all opinions...... And fair play that's your opinion/attitude but imo it's one that leads to crooks like Johnson doing what he has done and getting away wit it and that in turn leads to monsters like Putin doing what they do and getting away with it. I just can't compute how anyone can't give a shit about the party that are in government being funded by one of our biggest enemies. Doesn't it ring alarm bells? |
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 24, 2022 13:39:00 GMT
I couldnt give a shit who funds who, who backs who, whose side he or she is on. As long as me and my kids are safe Its a message board for opinions bayern - nothing more. I just simply dont understand some of your posts and the way you bring it across thats all...... I know Im not the sharpest knife in the door when it comes to this sort of stuff, but to try and get your head around some of the incomprehensible nonsense you come out with makes it doubly difficult sometimes. Theres plenty who post on this board who think they know whats going on and use it as if its their own extensive knowledge, when in reality they know about as much as me which is fuck all Again its all opinions...... And fair play that's your opinion/attitude but imo it's one that leads to crooks like Johnson doing what he has done and getting away wit it and that in turn leads to monsters like Putin doing what they do and getting away with it. I just can't compute how anyone can't give a shit about the party that are in government being funded by one of our biggest enemies. Doesn't it ring alarm bells? No worries mate....best send a strongly worded letter to Joris Bohnson if I were in your shoes....tell him what a rotter he is ! |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 24, 2022 13:39:45 GMT
I'm not ignorant. How is politics not part of a war. You haven't explained it. I'm all ears. Of course there is no answer because it's complete bollocks. We've actually moved past party politics though. The general conversation on here was about what to do, not about who is in who's pocket or who voted for which party. All you're doing is pointing fingers... which is what the Russians want. They do and they want people to ignore the rest of it too - Russian interference in elections, funding the Tory party, Brexit. They get away with it. The people who voted for such things get arsey because they don't want to hear they've been conned/played. Which I get. But actually it's time to sack up and open some eyes and see what's going on on our own shores and how that links to the wider picture. |
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Post by Foster on Feb 24, 2022 13:40:54 GMT
I couldnt give a shit who funds who, who backs who, whose side he or she is on. As long as me and my kids are safe Its a message board for opinions bayern - nothing more. I just simply dont understand some of your posts and the way you bring it across thats all...... I know Im not the sharpest knife in the door when it comes to this sort of stuff, but to try and get your head around some of the incomprehensible nonsense you come out with makes it doubly difficult sometimes. Theres plenty who post on this board who think they know whats going on and use it as if its their own extensive knowledge, when in reality they know about as much as me which is fuck all Again its all opinions...... And fair play that's your opinion/attitude but imo it's one that leads to crooks like Johnson doing what he has done and getting away wit it and that in turn leads to monsters like Putin doing what they do and getting away with it. I just can't compute how anyone can't give a shit about the party that are in government being funded by one of our biggest enemies. Doesn't it ring alarm bells? You've convinced me. This is all Dutchstokies fault. Shame on you Dutchie! |
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 24, 2022 13:41:10 GMT
And the offensive / defensive weapons the UK has sent ? Pretty sure if they were funding the tories as you claim now would be the time to call in favours and stop missiles rather than sanctions. Very good but the tip of the iceberg. Our sanctions were almost pointless. They are funding the Tories, that's not a claim, it's happening. "The biggest single donor of this group is the financier Lubov Chernukhin, who has donated £700,000. A British national since 2011, she is married to Vladimir Chernukhin, a former deputy finance minister under Putin." www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/23/oligarchs-funding-toriesSergei Skripal used to work for Putin too he's not the best boss in the world it would seem, if he was close to him he probably wouldn't need to live in the UK.... Sanctions regardless are mostly going to be ineffective unless we and Europe stop buying gas from russia and we persuade the saudis to increase production of oil to drive the price down below the point russia makes a profit, the only solution that stops Putin is a military one directly or indirectly and needs to involve massive troop losses for russia. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 24, 2022 13:41:51 GMT
I couldnt give a shit who funds who, who backs who, whose side he or she is on. As long as me and my kids are safe Its a message board for opinions bayern - nothing more. I just simply dont understand some of your posts and the way you bring it across thats all...... I know Im not the sharpest knife in the door when it comes to this sort of stuff, but to try and get your head around some of the incomprehensible nonsense you come out with makes it doubly difficult sometimes. Theres plenty who post on this board who think they know whats going on and use it as if its their own extensive knowledge, when in reality they know about as much as me which is fuck all Again its all opinions...... who funds who indirectly can & does affects your kids safety That net is so big you've cast there even Stoke can score in that one !  Dont bother replying...... |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 24, 2022 13:42:20 GMT
I'm not ignorant. How is politics not part of a war. You haven't explained it. I'm all ears. Of course there is no answer because it's complete bollocks. I think your point is correct however I think the original post was intended to read something along then lines of internal UK political nuances are not directly related to this thread topic The culture war around gender stuff and woke and BLM is all part of people like Bannon's plan and he is a Russian puppet. It shouldn't be ignored because it's their plan. They want a division and it does weirdly seem to bother people. And unless people actually take a step back and realise this then it will only get worse. But as like most people who have been conned act, they don't want to admit it because it's admitting you've been foolish. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 24, 2022 13:44:25 GMT
Very good but the tip of the iceberg. Our sanctions were almost pointless. They are funding the Tories, that's not a claim, it's happening. "The biggest single donor of this group is the financier Lubov Chernukhin, who has donated £700,000. A British national since 2011, she is married to Vladimir Chernukhin, a former deputy finance minister under Putin." www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/23/oligarchs-funding-toriesSergei Skripal used to work for Putin too he's not the best boss in the world it would seem, if he was close to him he probably wouldn't need to live in the UK.... Sanctions regardless are mostly going to be ineffective unless we and Europe stop buying gas from russia and we persuade the saudis to increase production of oil to drive the price down below the point russia makes a profit, the only solution that stops Putin is a military one directly or indirectly and needs to involve massive troop losses for russia. I hope this thread of tweets explains why I don't think that's not necessarily true: |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 24, 2022 13:45:11 GMT
Found this quite useful.
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Post by Foster on Feb 24, 2022 13:46:23 GMT
I think your point is correct however I think the original post was intended to read something along then lines of internal UK political nuances are not directly related to this thread topic The culture war around gender stuff and woke and BLM is all part of people like Bannon's plan and he is a Russian puppet. It shouldn't be ignored because it's their plan. They want a division and it does weirdly seem to bother people. And unless people actually take a step back and realise this then it will only get worse. But as like most people who have been conned act, they don't want to admit it because it's admitting you've been foolish. Don't you think that the way you approach debates on here causes division? Maybe you're a Russian puppet? Hmmm. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 24, 2022 13:46:40 GMT
And fair play that's your opinion/attitude but imo it's one that leads to crooks like Johnson doing what he has done and getting away wit it and that in turn leads to monsters like Putin doing what they do and getting away with it. I just can't compute how anyone can't give a shit about the party that are in government being funded by one of our biggest enemies. Doesn't it ring alarm bells? You've convinced me. This is all Dutchstokies fault. Shame on you Dutchie! Come on foster do keep up..... I carry the can for most of the worlds ills at the moment. Storm Eunice and Storm Franklin and the floods ? All my fault that was ! Putin invading the Ukraine? Down to me Im afraid. Brexit? That was me telling Boris to pull his finger out ! Corona Virus? I did actually sneeze on some Chinese student back in December 2019, on the metro over here in the Dam, who was on his way back to some place called Wuhan........What happened after that ? Well.......I can only apoligise if I caused upset to anyone. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 24, 2022 13:47:36 GMT
And here he is, chief cheerleader prick himself.
Treacherous leach.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 24, 2022 13:48:28 GMT
The culture war around gender stuff and woke and BLM is all part of people like Bannon's plan and he is a Russian puppet. It shouldn't be ignored because it's their plan. They want a division and it does weirdly seem to bother people. And unless people actually take a step back and realise this then it will only get worse. But as like most people who have been conned act, they don't want to admit it because it's admitting you've been foolish. Don't you think that the way you approach debates on here causes division? Maybe you're a Russian puppet? Hmmm. People don't like hearing the truth. That's a them issue for sure! |
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Post by serpico on Feb 24, 2022 13:48:35 GMT
Putin would have anticipated sanctions so they're hardly going to act as any kind of deterrent, as cold as it sounds I think you just have to let Putin have the win on this one, it'll upset the laptop bombardiers but its not worth starting a shooting war with Russia over when theres thousands of their nukes aimed at us! Isn't that relative to the point that if can get away with this, he'll only think that he can do the same again... and again... and again. Letting him get away with this sets a dangerous precedent that's already in play. He probably said the same about NATO encroachment and the middle east wars of the last 20 years, Ive got no problem drawing a line in the sand but Ukraine isn't in our vital national interest, its right next door to Russia, any type of direct or indirect military action could be catastrophic, its game over for us all if it comes to that! |
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Post by PotteringThrough on Feb 24, 2022 13:50:13 GMT
From purely a numbers game thought this was interesting: worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/military-spending-by-countryThe United States ($778 billion) China ($252 billion [estimated]) India ($72.9 billion) Russia ($61.7 billion) United Kingdom ($59.2 billion) Saudi Arabia ($57.5 billion [estimated]) Germany ($52.8 billion) France ($52.7 billion) Japan ($49.1 billion) South Korea ($45.7 billion Like football isn't played on paper but grass I suppose and wouldn't be surprised if China and Russia get more bang for their buck. They definitely get more bodies. We’ve got anywhere between 150,000 to 190 odd thousand in our armed forces depending on sources. Top 10 according to here (which had us at 194k in total) - www.statista.com/statistics/264443/the-worlds-largest-armies-based-on-active-force-level/ China - 2,000,000 India - 1,450,000 United States - 1,390,000 North Korea - 1,200,000 Russia - 850,000 Pakistan - 640,000 Iran - 575,000 South Korea - 555,000 Vietnam - 470,000 Egypt - 450,000 This one is possibly more concerning: www.statista.com/statistics/264435/number-of-nuclear-warheads-worldwide/Number of nuclear warheads worldwide as of January 2021 Worldwide total 13,080 Russia 6,255 USA 5,550 China 350 France 290 United Kingdom 225 |
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Post by sticky on Feb 24, 2022 13:52:16 GMT
Not an expert like some on here👀 but.. so Russia invade Ukraine and take over the country (is that what’s happening🤷🏼♂️) surely at some point the natives will get pissed off and make any occupation a living nightmare? Or are we expecting loads of Ukrainians to be turfed out of their homes and land somewhere in Europe? Like I say I don’t know much about it!
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Post by serpico on Feb 24, 2022 13:52:37 GMT
There will be no hand to hand combat in a war with Russia, or if there is it will be short lived, one side will want to use the nuclear first strike policy early on.
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Post by Foster on Feb 24, 2022 13:54:40 GMT
Isn't that relative to the point that if can get away with this, he'll only think that he can do the same again... and again... and again. Letting him get away with this sets a dangerous precedent that's already in play. He probably said the same about NATO encroachment and the middle east wars of the last 20 years, Ive got no problem drawing a line in the sand but Ukraine isn't in our vital national interest, its right next door to Russia, any type of direct or indirect military action could be catastrophic, its game over for us all if it comes to that! Ok, but after Ukraine then what? We just let the Russians get closer until there's no buffer zone left? Ukraine opted to join the West. We can't just sit back and let them get battered for that decision. The West hasn't properly defended anyone recently. Afghan, Hong Kong, Taiwan (near future). What's the point of having allies if they don't help you when you need it. |
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Post by flea79 on Feb 24, 2022 14:01:19 GMT
I saw this picture, it made me smile, it’s not aimed at anybody here at all!  |
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Post by serpico on Feb 24, 2022 14:02:59 GMT
He probably said the same about NATO encroachment and the middle east wars of the last 20 years, Ive got no problem drawing a line in the sand but Ukraine isn't in our vital national interest, its right next door to Russia, any type of direct or indirect military action could be catastrophic, its game over for us all if it comes to that! Ok, but after Ukraine then what? We just let the Russians get closer until there's no buffer zone left? Ukraine opted to join the West. We can't just sit back and let them get battered for that decision. The West hasn't properly defended anyone recently. Afghan, Hong Kong, Tainwan (near future). What's the point of having allies if they don't help you when you need it. The Russians have been saying the exact same thing about NATO for years! from their side they think they're acting defensively. What is happening is horrible, but you have to be pragmatic, is defending Ukraine worth potentially ending life on earth as we know it ? ... i don't think it is, any talk of military action is dr Strangelove levels of crazy! |
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Post by wannabee on Feb 24, 2022 14:06:06 GMT
A well known phrase is that History repeats itself and this is very apt currently when comparing Hitler and Putin
In Hitlers case the Treaty of Versailles effectively impoverished Germany and the German people were susceptible to a new leader who promised prosperity and restoration of National pride
Be in no doubt the fall of Soviet Union was a major and unwelcome shock to Russians generally who had previously been fed a diet of Russias power and invincibility
While many Russians do not agree entirely with Putin they are prideful of the Strong Man image and by association Russia portrays to the World
This is a crossroads for Western Democracy If we continue on the road to appeasement (Chamberlain) Putin will become even more emboldened and when the time suits will extend his expansion in the Baltic States etc
What is needed is for Putin to go and this will only be achieved from within. Either by popular uprising of from those close to Putin
The pathetic sanctions so far imposed are laughable The only way to change minds in Russia is to cripple the economy
Among the measures should be a) remove Russian Banks from SWIFT system so no foreign trades come in or out b) ban all imports and exports to Russia and any Country that supports it c) using cyberspace attack key military and government departments d) using social media send specific messaging targeted at Russian population e) NATO to heavily strengthen its forces along Russian border
These action will be painful on the West with increased prices for Fuel,Energy,Food etc but it must be done now and it must be done hard to at a minimum force Putin to the negotiation table, but preferably out of office
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Post by noustie on Feb 24, 2022 14:06:51 GMT
I saw this picture, it made me smile, it’s not aimed at anybody here at all! Are they available on a consultancy basis because we seem to playing draughts in comparison to Putin's 4-d chess at the moment? |
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Post by franklin on Feb 24, 2022 14:09:50 GMT
Ok, but after Ukraine then what? We just let the Russians get closer until there's no buffer zone left? Ukraine opted to join the West. We can't just sit back and let them get battered for that decision. The West hasn't properly defended anyone recently. Afghan, Hong Kong, Tainwan (near future). What's the point of having allies if they don't help you when you need it. The Russians have been saying the exact same thing about NATO for years! from their side they think they're acting defensively. What is happening is horrible, but you have to be pragmatic, is defending Ukraine worth potentially ending life on earth as we know it ? ... i don't think it is, any talk of military action is dr Strangelove levels of crazy! I'm sure nobody would be prepared to commit to a ground offensive or least not yet however the rest if the world really need to send Russia back to the stoneage and bankrupt them only then will the people of Russia decide to change Putins mind and correct his actions. His invasion must not succeed at almost any cost but yes full on nuclear war is unthinkable. |
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Post by Foster on Feb 24, 2022 14:16:04 GMT
The Russians have been saying the exact same thing about NATO for years! from their side they think they're acting defensively. What is happening is horrible, but you have to be pragmatic, is defending Ukraine worth potentially ending life on earth as we know it ? ... i don't think it is, any talk of military action is dr Strangelove levels of crazy! I'm sure nobody would be prepared to commit to a ground offensive or least not yet however the rest if the world really need to send Russia back to the stoneage and bankrupt them only then will the people of Russia decide to change Putins mind and correct his actions. His invasion must not succeed at almost any cost but yes full on nuclear war is unthinkable. I agree with nuclear weapons, but isn't the whole point of having them to stop things like this happening? It's no wonder other countries want nukes in that case, if only to ensure they're protected. |
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Post by serpico on Feb 24, 2022 14:16:07 GMT
The Russians have been saying the exact same thing about NATO for years! from their side they think they're acting defensively. What is happening is horrible, but you have to be pragmatic, is defending Ukraine worth potentially ending life on earth as we know it ? ... i don't think it is, any talk of military action is dr Strangelove levels of crazy! I'm sure nobody would be prepared to commit to a ground offensive or least not yet however the rest if the world really need to send Russia back to the stoneage and bankrupt them only then will the people of Russia decide to change Putins mind and correct his actions. His invasion must not succeed at almost any cost but yes full on nuclear war is unthinkable. Imo that is more likely to galvanise support for Putin, have sanctions ever had the desired effect of eliciting an uprising from within ? also if china isn't on board then they can probably withstand western imposed sanctions, as i said, Putin maybe horrible, but he's not stupid, he would have anticipated heavy sanctions before committing to this. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 24, 2022 14:19:34 GMT
I'm sure nobody would be prepared to commit to a ground offensive or least not yet however the rest if the world really need to send Russia back to the stoneage and bankrupt them only then will the people of Russia decide to change Putins mind and correct his actions. His invasion must not succeed at almost any cost but yes full on nuclear war is unthinkable. I agree with nuclear weapons, but isn't the whole point of having them to stop things like this happening? It's no wonder other countries want nukes in that case, if only to ensure they're protected. the problem with nuclear weapons when dealing with another nuclear superpower is pressing the button is basically presiding over the destruction of the world as we know it. I know politicians like to pander to the electorate about being brave enough and patriotic enough to do it but the reality is it's suicide........ |
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