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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 22, 2022 19:12:03 GMT
Sanctions like we did over this and cripple them like that. And funding Ukraine like we have now It doesn’t need to be full on. And they’ve continually shown they back down when faced with force. What do you think/hope the Russian response is? They surrender? They give up all their weapons/tanks/ships/missiles/etc...? What are you expecting the outcome to be?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 19:16:04 GMT
Sanctions like we did over this and cripple them like that. And funding Ukraine like we have now It doesn’t need to be full on. And they’ve continually shown they back down when faced with force. What do you think/hope the Russian response is? They surrender? They give up all their weapons/tanks/ships/missiles/etc...? What are you expecting the outcome to be? Putin to be ousted like will happen eventually with this. They did an act of war and we should have responded accordingly. It was a military operation on the streets of Britain and we just shrugged our shoulders. Totally pathetic.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 22, 2022 19:16:12 GMT
Can you expand on this? What exactly would you want to see us do after we'd declared war on them? Tanks rolling over the Russian border? Cruise missiles hitting Moscow? Something more, something less? Sanctions like we did over this and cripple them like that. And funding Ukraine like we have now It doesn’t need to be full on. And they’ve continually shown they back down when faced with force. Shouldn't we have declared war on them in 2014 then using your logic, or did you not know where Ukraine was on a map back then?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 22, 2022 19:17:24 GMT
What do you think/hope the Russian response is? They surrender? They give up all their weapons/tanks/ships/missiles/etc...? What are you expecting the outcome to be? Putin to be ousted like will happen eventually with this. They did an act of war and we should have responded accordingly. It was a military operation on the streets of Britain and we just shrugged our shoulders. Totally pathetic. You'll be stretching our armed forces, what with the air attacks on Iran and our already depleted navy on standby on the coast of China...................
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 22, 2022 19:21:46 GMT
Can you expand on this? What exactly would you want to see us do after we'd declared war on them? Tanks rolling over the Russian border? Cruise missiles hitting Moscow? Something more, something less? Sanctions like we did over this and cripple them like that. And funding Ukraine like we have now It doesn’t need to be full on. And they’ve continually shown they back down when faced with force. Attachment Deleted
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 19:36:26 GMT
Sanctions like we did over this and cripple them like that. And funding Ukraine like we have now It doesn’t need to be full on. And they’ve continually shown they back down when faced with force. Shouldn't we have declared war on them in 2014 then using your logic, or did you not know where Ukraine was on a map back then? I’ve got a Geography degree so of course I didn’t you patronising so and so 😂🤦♂️
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 19:38:40 GMT
You didn’t you said it was a feint 😂you’re just lying. They didn’t want to engage in active war fare? What drivel is that? They thought they just could rock up and take Kiev, they couldn't. I used the exact phrase that Russia wouldn't want to get into a street battle in the city centre of Kiev and turn it to rubble as it was a of "historical and cultural importance" Not the suburbs but the city of Kiev. Grifters like Oz Khaterji spent the first couple of months of the conflict walking the streets of Kiev and frequenting most of it's bars and restaurants. In conflict like in other walks of life there's a perfect outcome, there's a minimum red line and there's everything in between....... It was their number one objective not some sideshow. Their plan failed and that’s the only thing that stopped them. Not some conscience you think they have. I mean in this time they committed genocide on the outskirts of the city.
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Post by yeswilko on Nov 22, 2022 19:39:07 GMT
To me..It seems that bayern lost the plot when he claimed that history is irrelevant to what is happening now. I do suspect though, that this view will change depending on what's being discussed.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 19:39:48 GMT
Sanctions like we did over this and cripple them like that. And funding Ukraine like we have now It doesn’t need to be full on. And they’ve continually shown they back down when faced with force. View AttachmentGood argument as per. You’re happy a foreign power committed a military operation on our shores and murdered a British citizen I guess?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 19:41:56 GMT
To me..It seems that bayern lost the plot when he claimed that history is irrelevant to what is happening now. I do suspect though, that this view will change depending on what's being discussed. It’s not irrelevant but when the only defence is the west did it 100 years ago it’s a weak argument. What the British empire did is totally irrelevant to the discussion re Russia invading Ukraine. It’s a sideshow to detract from Russian atrocities. And as per it’s from 2 Corbyn fans. Who is very much a useful idiot for Putin.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 22, 2022 20:14:07 GMT
To me..It seems that bayern lost the plot when he claimed that history is irrelevant to what is happening now. I do suspect though, that this view will change depending on what's being discussed. It’s not irrelevant but when the only defence is the west did it 100 years ago it’s a weak argument. What the British empire did is totally irrelevant to the discussion re Russia invading Ukraine. It’s a sideshow to detract from Russian atrocities. And as per it’s from 2 Corbyn fans. Who is very much a useful idiot for Putin. You keep saying 100 years ago and quoting the British Empire when our mistakes have happened only recently. You're a cheer leader for an illegal war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. So fuck you and fuck your moral outrage there's a good lad...........
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 20:17:32 GMT
It’s not irrelevant but when the only defence is the west did it 100 years ago it’s a weak argument. What the British empire did is totally irrelevant to the discussion re Russia invading Ukraine. It’s a sideshow to detract from Russian atrocities. And as per it’s from 2 Corbyn fans. Who is very much a useful idiot for Putin. You keep saying 100 years ago and quoting the British Empire when our mistakes have happened only recently. You're a cheer leader for an illegal war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. So fuck you and fuck your moral outrage there's a good lad........... Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who killed millions. I have no idea why anyone would be against getting rid of such a person. It’s very strange.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 20:25:25 GMT
And this is part of the reason we need to be blowing the shit out of Irans ballistic missile and drone production facilities. And I think we would be if they weren’t on the cusp of revolution.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 23, 2022 4:52:22 GMT
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 23, 2022 4:57:07 GMT
And this is part of the reason we need to be blowing the shit out of Irans ballistic missile and drone production facilities. And I think we would be if they weren’t on the cusp of revolution. Attachment Deleted
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2022 22:05:26 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2022 22:09:55 GMT
Not sure how useful these will be now or if they will be even used to hunt subs but shows that behind the scenes we might be training Ukranians up on western airframes.
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Post by drfootball on Nov 24, 2022 16:54:22 GMT
Not sure how useful these will be now or if they will be even used to hunt subs but shows that behind the scenes we might be training Ukranians up on western airframes. They won`t be hunting subs, we`re giving them 3 ex Search and Rescue Mk3A`s, 2 ex RN, I ex RAF. I believe. Plenty of useful airframe life left in them though.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2022 17:11:42 GMT
Not sure how useful these will be now or if they will be even used to hunt subs but shows that behind the scenes we might be training Ukranians up on western airframes. They won`t be hunting subs, we`re giving them 3 ex Search and Rescue Mk3A`s, 2 ex RN, I ex RAF. I believe. Plenty of useful airframe life left in them though. Even if they were I’m not sure they’d survive longer than one flight with how vulnerable they’d be to well, everything.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 25, 2022 14:42:21 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2022 15:49:33 GMT
My heart goes out to that girl and her family, but you do have to question why on earth they are still there?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Nov 25, 2022 19:50:47 GMT
Is Biden inner circle starting to have conflicting views on further support for Ukraine. I’ve seen quotes attributed to top US General Miley seeming to suggest that outright victory for Ukraine isn’t a possibility and that when there’s a chance to negotiate it should be taken.
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 26, 2022 1:25:26 GMT
Is Biden inner circle starting to have conflicting views on further support for Ukraine. I’ve seen quotes attributed to top US General Miley seeming to suggest that outright victory for Ukraine isn’t a possibility and that when there’s a chance to negotiate it should be taken. Given their performance it's got to be up to the Ukrainians how and when they negotiate hasn't it? Biden's asked for $37 billion in support, no idea if that's the right amount but it sounds somewhere in the ballpark. The vote on that and the next big tranche after are the big tests IMO.
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 26, 2022 1:35:10 GMT
Rumours about the Kherson region are absolutely boiling now. I've been careful not to get too excited because stories about mass surrenders etc have been doing the rounds for months and turned out to be mostly bullshit. But now Russian sources *and* Ukrainian military *and* western groups are all talking about the Russians withdrawing more and more people and equipment from at least parts of the region. It could just be Russia rotating units or preparing to defend a different line so let's not get carried away... I we see now that those rumours were right! Sadly the Russians got out most of their best equipment and saved some of its best units. With all the prisoners and mobilised meat they're holding again and it's hard to see how Ukraine can get any more big victories soon. The online experts seem to have identified most of the equipment Ukraine's known to have and it looks like most is already in rotation and committed. Two place names you'll heat a lot if you follow are Bakhmut and Vulhedar, Russia is attacking constantly near there. They have more artillery guns and are throwing in endless waves of meat. The videos are truly horrendous - fields of Russian corpses, and Russian soldiers lying in holes in the ground and barely moving as drones drop grenades on their heads. It looks like hell on Earth and Ukraine is also taking heavy casualties. We need to get them more and better drones, drone killers, artillery, tanks etc to save lives.
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Post by dirtclod on Nov 26, 2022 7:47:06 GMT
I know that a Ukrainian tank-commander specifically named mobile artillery as one of the key support-weapons required to allow their tanks to roam/hunt Russians with more effectiveness. A reasonable request when you're using tanks. Hopefully the Russian lend-lease program of leaving/surrendering intact equipment for Ukrainian-use persists because every little bit helps.
There are so many weapons that Ukraine could use, compatible with their ammo/support etc. that other countries could send from their reserve-stocks. Tanks are a unique issue: They need to be of a "russian-type" because that's what Ukraine has for ammo, parts, logistics and what their people are trained to use. So Brunhilda needs to calm down about the Leopard tanks. First of all they're on again/off again with that rumor [which I don't believe] anyway. Ukraine can't just overhaul their whole supply and training system in the middle of a war, just so they can field Leopards and get free Rheinmetall stickers. That makes about as much sense as us yanks saddling them with gas-guzzling M1A1's with no commonality of ammo, no training, those rumors are just stupid. The Germans have sent other types of vehicles which will work, but tanks need a lot of compatibility.
And it may be something as "unglamorous" as trucks that turns the tide of the whole thing anyway. Because a unit that can resupply is a beautiful thing. Everybody's afraid to send much in the way of aircraft which is a shame because 10 or 12 Warthogs could wipe out anything that Russians try to move and send them scurrying back home to Vladimir. And yes, that list in the last sentence of the previous post - we send them stuff like that and I think Ukraine will see that they're used appropriately.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 26, 2022 16:32:14 GMT
Blimey, seems pretty desperate ...
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Post by dirtclod on Nov 26, 2022 18:10:47 GMT
Yes, just look at what the Ukrainians have to deal with every day and now this. Not bad enough they're firing these things at civilians, but now intentionally firing "nuclear" decoys to get an overkill response. Despicable war-criminals imposing yet another new low upon the world.
FK PTN
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 26, 2022 22:36:13 GMT
Ukraine reckons Russia has made about 300 modern long-range missiles since the war started and fired about 1500 of those types: Iskander, Oniks, Kalibr, Kh-101 and Khinzal.
If the claims are right then Russia can still do a ton of damage but they can't keep up what they've been doing.
And they have almost 10,000 S-300 missiles to spend. Shorter range, weaker and inaccurate, but good enough for murdering civilians.
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Post by Marc01 on Nov 26, 2022 23:03:33 GMT
/video/2
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 27, 2022 1:57:46 GMT
Absolute heroes ...
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