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Post by kingdong on Feb 22, 2022 12:39:54 GMT
Where did it all go wrong? Looks like Tony Blair gave him some ideas…
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 22, 2022 12:44:24 GMT
Where did it all go wrong? Looks like Tony Blair gave him some ideas…
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 22, 2022 12:45:25 GMT
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Post by themistocles on Feb 22, 2022 12:56:04 GMT
Pitiful sanctions against an aggressor invading a sovereign nation.
Putin needs to be deterred from taking everything east of the dnieper river and these sanctions dont do that. Remove your troops from Ukraine sovereign area or we will welcome them into NATO.
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Post by themistocles on Feb 22, 2022 12:57:17 GMT
Looks like Tony Blair gave him some ideas… No relevance today that was 20 years ago..
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 22, 2022 13:01:26 GMT
No relevance today that was 20 years ago.. I was replying to the "Tony Blair gave him ideas" post, that was all.......
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Post by scfc1863 on Feb 22, 2022 13:21:03 GMT
Squeaky bum times for Chelsea fans then.
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Post by flea79 on Feb 22, 2022 13:21:52 GMT
Looks like Tony Blair gave him some ideas… i doubt the tweeter is of any use, its the KGB for starters not the KBG
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Post by andystokey on Feb 22, 2022 13:24:12 GMT
Ukraine resources:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters).
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers; surprise, surprise.
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
If you don't think this is an issue on principle, there is still a pretty good selfish reason for the world to care.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Feb 22, 2022 13:25:44 GMT
What sanctions can us or the rest of the civilised world impose on them that would make a spot of difference? I'm not saying we shouldn't act, but he'll know it was going to go down as badly as it has (being completely illegal and all) and will have been expecting sanctions stemming from it. It's a step further than purely posturing.
Is there anything that would actually make him climb down? Let's be honest, we don't need a war, especially with Russia as the aggressors.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 22, 2022 13:34:07 GMT
Squeaky bum times for Chelsea fans then. Abramovich has Israeli and Portugese citizenship.....
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Post by foster on Feb 22, 2022 14:14:59 GMT
Squeaky bum times for Chelsea fans then. Abramovich has Israeli and Portugese citizenship..... Where the champions league final is being held, or Chelsea fc, are the least of our concerns. Forceful retaliation for their land-grabbing shouldn't be off the table. The West is getting dicked on by the likes of China, Russia and Israel with their land grabbing exploits.
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Post by hcstokie on Feb 22, 2022 14:17:38 GMT
What sanctions can us or the rest of the civilised world impose on them that would make a spot of difference? I'm not saying we shouldn't act, but he'll know it was going to go down as badly as it has (being completely illegal and all) and will have been expecting sanctions stemming from it. It's a step further than purely posturing. Is there anything that would actually make him climb down? Let's be honest, we don't need a war, especially with Russia as the aggressors. Perhaps NATO could send a couple of hundred thousand troops to Ukraine to take part in military exercises?
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Post by Clem Fandango on Feb 22, 2022 14:29:49 GMT
What sanctions can us or the rest of the civilised world impose on them that would make a spot of difference? I'm not saying we shouldn't act, but he'll know it was going to go down as badly as it has (being completely illegal and all) and will have been expecting sanctions stemming from it. It's a step further than purely posturing. Is there anything that would actually make him climb down? Let's be honest, we don't need a war, especially with Russia as the aggressors. Perhaps NATO could send a couple of hundred thousand troops to Ukraine to take part in military exercises? Unless the yanks want to contribute at least 150k of those troops I suspect they couldn’t muster that many.
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Post by mrcoke on Feb 22, 2022 14:50:20 GMT
Ukraine resources: 1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores; 2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves; 2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves); 2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons); 2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves; 3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters). 4th in the world by the total value of natural resources; 7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons) 1st in Europe in terms of arable land area; 3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume); 1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil; 2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports; 3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world; 4th largest producer of potatoes in the world; 5th largest rye producer in the world; 5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons); 8th place in the world in wheat exports; 9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs; Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people. 1st in Europe in ammonia production; Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system; 3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants; 3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km); 3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment; 3rd largest iron exporter in the world 4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world; 4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers; surprise, surprise. 4th place in the world in clay exports 4th place in the world in titanium exports 8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates; 9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products; 10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons). If you don't think this is an issue on principle, there is still a pretty good selfish reason for the world to care. Excellent post. Ukraine was the first to be called "The breadbasket of the world", especially before the Russian revolution. It is plain to see why Putin wants to take over for Russia from your post.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2022 14:50:37 GMT
Abramovich has Israeli and Portugese citizenship..... Where the champions league final is being held, or Chelsea fc, are the least of our concerns. Forceful retaliation for their land-grabbing shouldn't be off the table. The West is getting dicked on by the likes of China, Russia and Israel with their land grabbing exploits. What form of forceful retaliation would you like to see?
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2022 15:07:46 GMT
Ukraine resources: 1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores; 2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves; 2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves); 2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons); 2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves; 3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters). 4th in the world by the total value of natural resources; 7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons) 1st in Europe in terms of arable land area; 3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume); 1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil; 2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports; 3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world; 4th largest producer of potatoes in the world; 5th largest rye producer in the world; 5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons); 8th place in the world in wheat exports; 9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs; Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people. 1st in Europe in ammonia production; Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system; 3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants; 3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km); 3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment; 3rd largest iron exporter in the world 4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world; 4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers; surprise, surprise. 4th place in the world in clay exports 4th place in the world in titanium exports 8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates; 9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products; 10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons). If you don't think this is an issue on principle, there is still a pretty good selfish reason for the world to care. Excellent post. Ukraine was the first to be called "The breadbasket of the world", especially before the Russian revolution. It is plain to see why Putin wants to take over for Russia from your post. From breadbasket to basket case in next to no time. The joys of collectivised socialism courtesy of Stalin and the USSR. Is anyone really surprised why the Ukraine is wary of the Big Bear.
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Post by foster on Feb 22, 2022 15:28:12 GMT
Where the champions league final is being held, or Chelsea fc, are the least of our concerns. Forceful retaliation for their land-grabbing shouldn't be off the table. The West is getting dicked on by the likes of China, Russia and Israel with their land grabbing exploits. What form of forceful retaliation would you like to see? No idea, but I would assume that if Western forces are stationed in Ukraine (with the Ukraine's permission) that the Russians will be less likely to be aggressive. They would know that causing any casualty to other nationals, especially when not within Russia itself, could lead to more than just empty threats. I have no confidence in sanctions, because 1) Politicians are full of shit and follow the money, and 2) Russia can easily do the same with all the natural resources they possess. I doubt we'll do anything other than weak sanctions and plenty of condemning soundbites, and I fully expect Russia to get away with whatever they're planning, whilst the Ukrainians suffer as a result of it. End result being that the West proves once again to be unable and unwilling to really put it's foot down when it comes to Chinese and Russian territorial expansion. We rely too much on them and they know it.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 22, 2022 15:33:26 GMT
Excellent post. Ukraine was the first to be called "The breadbasket of the world", especially before the Russian revolution. It is plain to see why Putin wants to take over for Russia from your post. From breadbasket to basket case in next to no time. The joys of collectivised socialism courtesy of Stalin and the USSR. Is anyone really surprised why the Ukraine is wary of the Big Bear. Please don't equate Stalin with socialism. Completely incorrect.
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Post by superjw on Feb 22, 2022 15:34:54 GMT
Ukraine resources: 1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores; 2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves; 2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves); 2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons); 2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves; 3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters). 4th in the world by the total value of natural resources; 7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons) 1st in Europe in terms of arable land area; 3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume); 1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil; 2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports; 3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world; 4th largest producer of potatoes in the world; 5th largest rye producer in the world; 5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons); 8th place in the world in wheat exports; 9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs; Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people. 1st in Europe in ammonia production; Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system; 3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants; 3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km); 3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment; 3rd largest iron exporter in the world 4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world; 4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers; surprise, surprise. 4th place in the world in clay exports 4th place in the world in titanium exports 8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates; 9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products; 10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons). If you don't think this is an issue on principle, there is still a pretty good selfish reason for the world to care. Think that pretty much answers most questions as to why this is all happening Country A wants what they used to have...
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 22, 2022 15:37:14 GMT
This is VERY awkward
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Post by hammered on Feb 22, 2022 15:44:50 GMT
The question here should be - if you were Putin what would you do?? The regions in dispute want/declared independence contain a pro Russian populous and have been at war (rarely reported) since the Obama/Biden sponsored coup installing a western puppet in 2014.
There's no question NATO have breached non proliferation (Minsk) agreements to sit on Putin's door and continue to fund and supply the conflict.
I'm not taking sides but the west has a history of over-reach - this is Putin's back yard!!
I'm sure Putin hasn't batted an eyelid over sanctions - after all Germany sanctioning itself over Nordstream 2 simply means he'll pump his cheap gas to China instead. And every other expected western sanction simply drives Russia to become less reliant on the outside - or make partnerships elsewhere..
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Post by lordb on Feb 22, 2022 15:47:36 GMT
The question here should be - if you were Putin what would you do?? The regions in dispute want/declared independence contain a pro Russian populous and have been at war (rarely reported) since the Obama/Biden sponsored coup installing a western puppet in 2014. There's no question NATO have breached non proliferation (Minsk) agreements to sit on Putin's door and continue to fund and supply the conflict. I'm not taking sides but the west has a history of over-reach - this is Putin's back yard!! I'm sure Putin hasn't batted an eyelid over sanctions - after all Germany sanctioning itself over Nordstream 2 simply means he'll pump his cheap gas to China instead. And every other expected western sanction simply drives Russia to become less reliant on the outside - or make partnerships elsewhere.. It's not Putins backyard, it's another country
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2022 15:50:34 GMT
From breadbasket to basket case in next to no time. The joys of collectivised socialism courtesy of Stalin and the USSR. Is anyone really surprised why the Ukraine is wary of the Big Bear. Please don't equate Stalin with socialism. Completely incorrect. Stalin saw himself as a socialist. Leastways he was the architect of “Socialism in one country”. You could take your contention up with him. Or his acolytes. Good luck.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 22, 2022 15:52:03 GMT
Please don't equate Stalin with socialism. Completely incorrect. Stalin saw himself as a socialist. Leastways he was the architect of “Socialism in one country”. You could take your contention up with him. Or his acolytes. Good luck. I'm pointing out you are incorrect mate. That's all.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2022 15:56:12 GMT
What form of forceful retaliation would you like to see? No idea, but I would assume that if Western forces are stationed in Ukraine (with the Ukraine's permission) that the Russians will be less likely to be aggressive. They would know that causing any casualty to other nationals, especially when not within Russia itself, could lead to more than just empty threats. I have no confidence in sanctions, because 1) Politicians are full of shit and follow the money, and 2) Russia can easily do the same with all the natural resources they possess. I doubt we'll do anything other than weak sanctions and plenty of condemning soundbites, and I fully expect Russia to get away with whatever they're planning, whilst the Ukrainians suffer as a result of it. End result being that the West proves once again to be unable and unwilling to really put it's foot down when it comes to Chinese and Russian territorial expansion. We rely too much on them and they know it. I’m also unsure what forceful actions can be taken. I’m thinking, with all the talk of parallels with Hitler in 1938, about how much grief Chamberlain has got from history about his appeasement approach to Hitler. Which meant he was doing everything he could to avoid war. Yet, here we are again and we look like we are doing the same.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2022 16:02:03 GMT
Stalin saw himself as a socialist. Leastways he was the architect of “Socialism in one country”. You could take your contention up with him. Or his acolytes. Good luck. I'm pointing out you are incorrect mate. That's all. I’m just quoting Stalin. Don’t shoot the messenger. Although, Stalin seemingly was partial to that.
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Post by Northy on Feb 22, 2022 16:02:26 GMT
The question here should be - if you were Putin what would you do?? The regions in dispute want/declared independence contain a pro Russian populous and have been at war (rarely reported) since the Obama/Biden sponsored coup installing a western puppet in 2014. There's no question NATO have breached non proliferation (Minsk) agreements to sit on Putin's door and continue to fund and supply the conflict. I'm not taking sides but the west has a history of over-reach - this is Putin's back yard!! I'm sure Putin hasn't batted an eyelid over sanctions - after all Germany sanctioning itself over Nordstream 2 simply means he'll pump his cheap gas to China instead. And every other expected western sanction simply drives Russia to become less reliant on the outside - or make partnerships elsewhere.. It's a country that has been a democratic country for far longer than it was part of the USSR, it should have nothing to do with Putin
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Post by superjw on Feb 22, 2022 16:05:17 GMT
Putin requested parliament to approve the deployment of armed forces abroad...
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 22, 2022 16:08:17 GMT
What sanctions can us or the rest of the civilised world impose on them that would make a spot of difference? I'm not saying we shouldn't act, but he'll know it was going to go down as badly as it has (being completely illegal and all) and will have been expecting sanctions stemming from it. It's a step further than purely posturing. Is there anything that would actually make him climb down? Let's be honest, we don't need a war, especially with Russia as the aggressors. Perhaps NATO could send a couple of hundred thousand troops to Ukraine to take part in military exercises? I would of thought twenty thousand on the Poland kalingrad and twenty thousand on the Lithuanian kalingrad border might just alter his mind set
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