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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 8, 2022 11:45:23 GMT
Had the Lib Dems voted against the rise they wouldn’t of happened fact Had the tories not included top up fees in their manifesto and then prepared the legislation to push it through Parliament there would not have been a vote on it. It is a tory policy. 100%. Backed by the liberals democrats Fact Same old liberals will say and vote for anything just to get a sniff of power
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Post by yeokel on Sept 8, 2022 11:48:36 GMT
“….. they (the Conservatives) couldn’t of done it (tripled tuition fees) without the help of the Lib Dems” Absolutely correct. Privately educated Lib Dems working with privately educated Tories. There’s barely a fag paper between them at times. There is now though. Lib dems called for the cap on energy prices not to rise, labour followed, the tories followed today it seems. Lib dems called for windfall taxes on energy firms, labour copied and then the tories U turned on it - interesting to see if they do again. And we all know the differences on brexit and green policies between tory and lib dems. They are massively different now. Weren’t so different back before the coalition. Oh wait. They were: the lib dem manifesto before the coalition they were against top up fees, for gay marriage (tories stole that one), for increased minimum wage (tories stole that), for SEIS relief for small business investment (tories stole that one), for pupil premium (tories stole that one), for splitting high street and investment banks (tories stole that one), for green investment funds (tories stole that one), for massive investment in apprenticeships (tories stole that one), So all the above coalition policies were in the lib dem manifesto (apart from top up fees) and missing from the tory one, but under the coalition the tories were persuaded to introduce them/ stole them as their own. Save for top up fees, which was a tory policy and the lib dems idiotically voted with them so as not to bring down the coalition government. But don’t let the truth about the differences between the lib dems and tories get in the way of your hatred towards lib dems for voting with the tories on top up fees Remember, only lib dems opposed the Iraq war. Labour and the tories were all for it. The lib dems called for more regulation of the banks pre financial crash. That was opposed by the two other parties. Thanks for helping me out. I said "Privately educated Lib Dems working with privately educated Tories. There’s barely a fag paper between them at times." And you've just given a load of examples (below) of how that is correct ![(slaphead)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/x7GhxArXJzjvmIlugu2X.gif) " the lib dem manifesto before the coalition they were against top up fees (EDIT. but voted for them anyway), for gay marriage (tories stole that one), for increased minimum wage (tories stole that), for SEIS relief for small business investment (tories stole that one), for pupil premium (tories stole that one), for splitting high street and investment banks (tories stole that one), for green investment funds (tories stole that one), for massive investment in apprenticeships (tories stole that one),"
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 8, 2022 11:50:12 GMT
Had the tories not included top up fees in their manifesto and then prepared the legislation to push it through Parliament there would not have been a vote on it. It is a tory policy. 100%. Backed by the liberals democrats Fact Same old liberals will say and vote for anything just to get a sniff of power The lib dems made a big mistake backing the tory policy of top up tuition fees, absolutely. Iraq war and regulation of banks pre crash. Labour and tory voted for the war, lib dem against. Labour and tory wanted less regulation of banks pre crash, the lib dems more. Both much more significant than top up tuition fees and on both the lib dems were absolutely correct and the other two were absolutely wrong, and they had a far bigger impact on the economy and people’s lives than tuition fees. No party is perfect. In fact, arguably no party is even good, let alone perfect. It is why blanket hostility towards any party, or blind faith support of any party, is a terrible thing. We all need to reset before every vote and judge who we are voting for by the policies they are putting forward, not because of who we hate or who we blindly follow regardless. Unfortunately first past the post does not lend itself well to this behaviour.
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Post by thewonderstuff on Sept 8, 2022 11:54:04 GMT
Backed by the liberals democrats Fact Same old liberals will say and vote for anything just to get a sniff of power The lib dems made a big mistake backing the tory policy of top up tuition fees, absolutely. Iraq war and regulation of banks pre crash. Labour and tory voted for the war, lib dem against. Labour and tory wanted less regulation of banks pre crash, the lib dems more. Both much more significant than top up tuition fees and on both the lib dems were absolutely correct and the other two were absolutely wrong, and they had a far bigger impact on the economy and people’s lives than tuition fees. No party is perfect. In fact, arguably no party is even good, let alone perfect. It is why blanket hostility towards any party, or blind faith support of any party, is a terrible thing. We all need to reset before every vote and judge who we are voting for by the policies they are putting forward, not because of who we hate or who we blindly follow regardless. Unfortunately first past the post does not lend itself well to this behaviour. The only 'feel good' part of this whole sorry episode is that it ended Nick Clegg's career. Amazingly however, despite being the prime enabler of the heartless political choice of austerity he managed to find a way to make a living even more odious than that!
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 8, 2022 11:54:23 GMT
There is now though. Lib dems called for the cap on energy prices not to rise, labour followed, the tories followed today it seems. Lib dems called for windfall taxes on energy firms, labour copied and then the tories U turned on it - interesting to see if they do again. And we all know the differences on brexit and green policies between tory and lib dems. They are massively different now. Weren’t so different back before the coalition. Oh wait. They were: the lib dem manifesto before the coalition they were against top up fees, for gay marriage (tories stole that one), for increased minimum wage (tories stole that), for SEIS relief for small business investment (tories stole that one), for pupil premium (tories stole that one), for splitting high street and investment banks (tories stole that one), for green investment funds (tories stole that one), for massive investment in apprenticeships (tories stole that one), So all the above coalition policies were in the lib dem manifesto (apart from top up fees) and missing from the tory one, but under the coalition the tories were persuaded to introduce them/ stole them as their own. Save for top up fees, which was a tory policy and the lib dems idiotically voted with them so as not to bring down the coalition government. But don’t let the truth about the differences between the lib dems and tories get in the way of your hatred towards lib dems for voting with the tories on top up fees Remember, only lib dems opposed the Iraq war. Labour and the tories were all for it. The lib dems called for more regulation of the banks pre financial crash. That was opposed by the two other parties. Thanks for helping me out. I said "Privately educated Lib Dems working with privately educated Tories. There’s barely a fag paper between them at times." And you've just given a load of examples (below) of how that is correct ![(slaphead)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/x7GhxArXJzjvmIlugu2X.gif) " the lib dem manifesto before the coalition they were against top up fees (EDIT. but voted for them anyway), for gay marriage (tories stole that one), for increased minimum wage (tories stole that), for SEIS relief for small business investment (tories stole that one), for pupil premium (tories stole that one), for splitting high street and investment banks (tories stole that one), for green investment funds (tories stole that one), for massive investment in apprenticeships (tories stole that one)," As a state educated individual, i am in favour of all of the above policies save for top up tuition fees. Why are the above favourable to privately educated individuals? I would say the opposite is true. Why can only privately educated people support gay marriage!? Are you suggesting all state educated individuals are homophobic!? We have the most privately educated cabinet now since Major’s government. I believe the best person for the job should be given the job. Regardless of the status of their education. If I were in power, I would slowly abolish private schools by first removing their charitable status, and second by taxing them to subsidise state schools.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 8, 2022 11:55:58 GMT
The lib dems made a big mistake backing the tory policy of top up tuition fees, absolutely. Iraq war and regulation of banks pre crash. Labour and tory voted for the war, lib dem against. Labour and tory wanted less regulation of banks pre crash, the lib dems more. Both much more significant than top up tuition fees and on both the lib dems were absolutely correct and the other two were absolutely wrong, and they had a far bigger impact on the economy and people’s lives than tuition fees. No party is perfect. In fact, arguably no party is even good, let alone perfect. It is why blanket hostility towards any party, or blind faith support of any party, is a terrible thing. We all need to reset before every vote and judge who we are voting for by the policies they are putting forward, not because of who we hate or who we blindly follow regardless. Unfortunately first past the post does not lend itself well to this behaviour. The only 'feel good' part of this whole sorry episode is that it ended Nick Clegg's career. Amazingly however, despite being the prime enabler of the heartless political choice of austerity he managed to find a way to make a living even more odious than that! It is absurd to blame clegg for austerity. Compare the pre and post coalition policies and you will find the biggest and nastiest austerity measures came after clegg and the lib dems were unable to mitigate the damage the tories were doing. Sadly labour supporters will blame the lib dems, and the tories will keep winning elections as a result.
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Post by yeokel on Sept 8, 2022 12:04:09 GMT
“….. they (the Conservatives) couldn’t of done it (tripled tuition fees) without the help of the Lib Dems” Absolutely correct. Privately educated Lib Dems working with privately educated Tories. There’s barely a fag paper between them at times. There is now though. Lib dems called for the cap on energy prices not to rise, labour followed, the tories followed today it seems. Lib dems called for windfall taxes on energy firms, labour copied and then the tories U turned on it - interesting to see if they do again. And we all know the differences on brexit and green policies between tory and lib dems. They are massively different now. Weren’t so different back before the coalition. Oh wait. They were: the lib dem manifesto before the coalition they were against top up fees, for gay marriage (tories stole that one), for increased minimum wage (tories stole that), for SEIS relief for small business investment (tories stole that one), for pupil premium (tories stole that one), for splitting high street and investment banks (tories stole that one), for green investment funds (tories stole that one), for massive investment in apprenticeships (tories stole that one), So all the above coalition policies were in the lib dem manifesto (apart from top up fees) and missing from the tory one, but under the coalition the tories were persuaded to introduce them/ stole them as their own. Save for top up fees, which was a tory policy and the lib dems idiotically voted with them so as not to bring down the coalition government. But don’t let the truth about the differences between the lib dems and tories get in the way of your hatred towards lib dems for voting with the tories on top up fees Remember, only lib dems opposed the Iraq war. Labour and the tories were all for it. The lib dems called for more regulation of the banks pre financial crash. That was opposed by the two other parties. " ..of your hatred towards lib dems..." I don't "hate" the Lib Dems Oggy, don't be so melodramatic. I don't have any hatred in me about anything, I think. I don't like the hypocrisy that politicians such as Clegg and Cable showed just to get a wee sniff of power. As I've pointed out before, had they not supported Cameron, Brexit wouldn't have happened. And both my daughters would not be saddled with £40k - £50k debts. And there's probably other things too if I could be bothered to trawl back through my memory. So, it's not hatred. I post about these things on occasion just to remind people that, however goody goody and insignificant the Lib Dems like to appear, they cannot be trusted any more that any other politician from any other party. That's all. (and it teases you as well ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/3zptH1h3SvRnVmRGLyMP.gif) )
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Post by yeokel on Sept 8, 2022 12:07:30 GMT
Thanks for helping me out. I said "Privately educated Lib Dems working with privately educated Tories. There’s barely a fag paper between them at times." And you've just given a load of examples (below) of how that is correct ![(slaphead)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/x7GhxArXJzjvmIlugu2X.gif) " the lib dem manifesto before the coalition they were against top up fees (EDIT. but voted for them anyway), for gay marriage (tories stole that one), for increased minimum wage (tories stole that), for SEIS relief for small business investment (tories stole that one), for pupil premium (tories stole that one), for splitting high street and investment banks (tories stole that one), for green investment funds (tories stole that one), for massive investment in apprenticeships (tories stole that one)," As a state educated individual, i am in favour of all of the above policies save for top up tuition fees. Why are the above favourable to privately educated individuals? I would say the opposite is true. Why can only privately educated people support gay marriage!? Are you suggesting all state educated individuals are homophobic!? We have the most privately educated cabinet now since Major’s government. I believe the best person for the job should be given the job. Regardless of the status of their education. If I were in power, I would slowly abolish private schools by first removing their charitable status, and second by taxing them to subsidise state schools. "If I were in power, I would slowly abolish private schools by first removing their charitable status, and second by taxing them to subsidise state schools." And so would I ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif)
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Post by thewonderstuff on Sept 8, 2022 12:09:48 GMT
The only 'feel good' part of this whole sorry episode is that it ended Nick Clegg's career. Amazingly however, despite being the prime enabler of the heartless political choice of austerity he managed to find a way to make a living even more odious than that! It is absurd to blame clegg for austerity. Compare the pre and post coalition policies and you will find the biggest and nastiest austerity measures came after clegg and the lib dems were unable to mitigate the damage the tories were doing. Sadly labour supporters will blame the lib dems, and the tories will keep winning elections as a result. I don't undertand your timeline at all. Clegg enabled that vile Government in the full knowledge of what they wanted to do and stood by as they did it. He didnt even get his tuition fees policy through. In his thirst for power and influence he was every much as bit to blame for the hurt, suffering and deaths caused by austerity as Osborne and Cameron.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 8, 2022 17:22:01 GMT
There is now though. Lib dems called for the cap on energy prices not to rise, labour followed, the tories followed today it seems. Lib dems called for windfall taxes on energy firms, labour copied and then the tories U turned on it - interesting to see if they do again. And we all know the differences on brexit and green policies between tory and lib dems. They are massively different now. Weren’t so different back before the coalition. Oh wait. They were: the lib dem manifesto before the coalition they were against top up fees, for gay marriage (tories stole that one), for increased minimum wage (tories stole that), for SEIS relief for small business investment (tories stole that one), for pupil premium (tories stole that one), for splitting high street and investment banks (tories stole that one), for green investment funds (tories stole that one), for massive investment in apprenticeships (tories stole that one), So all the above coalition policies were in the lib dem manifesto (apart from top up fees) and missing from the tory one, but under the coalition the tories were persuaded to introduce them/ stole them as their own. Save for top up fees, which was a tory policy and the lib dems idiotically voted with them so as not to bring down the coalition government. But don’t let the truth about the differences between the lib dems and tories get in the way of your hatred towards lib dems for voting with the tories on top up fees Remember, only lib dems opposed the Iraq war. Labour and the tories were all for it. The lib dems called for more regulation of the banks pre financial crash. That was opposed by the two other parties. " ..of your hatred towards lib dems..." I don't "hate" the Lib Dems Oggy, don't be so melodramatic. I don't have any hatred in me about anything, I think. I don't like the hypocrisy that politicians such as Clegg and Cable showed just to get a wee sniff of power. As I've pointed out before, had they not supported Cameron, Brexit wouldn't have happened. And both my daughters would not be saddled with £40k - £50k debts. And there's probably other things too if I could be bothered to trawl back through my memory. So, it's not hatred. I post about these things on occasion just to remind people that, however goody goody and insignificant the Lib Dems like to appear, they cannot be trusted any more that any other politician from any other party. That's all. (and it teases you as well ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/3zptH1h3SvRnVmRGLyMP.gif) ) Do you blame the tories at all, or just the lib dems for the tory policies in the coalition?
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 8, 2022 17:24:00 GMT
It is absurd to blame clegg for austerity. Compare the pre and post coalition policies and you will find the biggest and nastiest austerity measures came after clegg and the lib dems were unable to mitigate the damage the tories were doing. Sadly labour supporters will blame the lib dems, and the tories will keep winning elections as a result. I don't undertand your timeline at all. Clegg enabled that vile Government in the full knowledge of what they wanted to do and stood by as they did it. He didnt even get his tuition fees policy through. In his thirst for power and influence he was every much as bit to blame for the hurt, suffering and deaths caused by austerity as Osborne and Cameron. No it isn’t. The tories were far more responsible for coalition policies that appeared in the tory manifesto than the lib dems. And vice versa is true. But I agree Clegg did a deal with the devil, and his party paid the price. The lib dems are very different now though. It’s such a shame that Brown was too arrogant to go into coalition with the lib dems. He and Clegg had more in common than Clegg and Cameron pre coalition
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Post by yeokel on Sept 8, 2022 17:35:12 GMT
" ..of your hatred towards lib dems..." I don't "hate" the Lib Dems Oggy, don't be so melodramatic. I don't have any hatred in me about anything, I think. I don't like the hypocrisy that politicians such as Clegg and Cable showed just to get a wee sniff of power. As I've pointed out before, had they not supported Cameron, Brexit wouldn't have happened. And both my daughters would not be saddled with £40k - £50k debts. And there's probably other things too if I could be bothered to trawl back through my memory. So, it's not hatred. I post about these things on occasion just to remind people that, however goody goody and insignificant the Lib Dems like to appear, they cannot be trusted any more that any other politician from any other party. That's all. (and it teases you as well ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/3zptH1h3SvRnVmRGLyMP.gif) ) Do you blame the tories at all, or just the lib dems for the tory policies in the coalition? The Tories were just acting as Tories so can’t really “blame” them as they don’t know any better. That doesn’t mean that I agree’d with them back then, or now for that matter. But the Libs chose to support them against, I suspect, the wishes of the greater part of their membership and against the greater part of those who had voted Lib Dem “to keep the Tories out”. We were asked to do that at that time and I was one of the mugs who fell for it. Vote Lib Dem and get a Tory government wasn’t part of the deal. And, for what it’s worth, I would bet that you yourself were against it too, if you were a Lib supporter at that time.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 26, 2022 19:50:45 GMT
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 26, 2022 20:01:41 GMT
I would imagine Johnson's has already gone in.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 26, 2022 20:04:34 GMT
I would imagine Johnson's has already gone in. He probably got someone to write it for him when he was on holiday - not sure if Croatia or Greece though…
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Post by andystokey on Sept 26, 2022 20:08:09 GMT
Fuck that the process is so slow it will be 2023 before were down to two candidates. They have to be dragged into a GE somehow.
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 26, 2022 20:19:45 GMT
Ha ha, the way things are going King Charles could get off to a flier and start catching The Queen up with the number of Prime Ministers appointed.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 26, 2022 20:24:16 GMT
I would imagine Johnson's has already gone in. A long, long time ago ...
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 26, 2022 21:33:49 GMT
Honest Dom, the best eyes in the North East, shares his thoughts on why leaking news stories is bad whilst effectively leaking his story about our right honourable prime minister
It’s all just a big game to them…
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 14, 2022 11:29:07 GMT
Mourdant or sunak
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 14, 2022 11:59:49 GMT
I wonder what the 70% of people who thought Johnson should resign would think if he made a return?
I suspect a fair old few would be quite happy, which does say an awful lot about the electorate.
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Post by lordb on Oct 14, 2022 12:02:48 GMT
I wonder what the 70% of people who thought Johnson should resign would think if he made a return? I suspect a fair old few would be quite happy, which does say an awful lot about the electorate. 'they stabbed him in the back'
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Post by redstriper on Oct 20, 2022 20:56:08 GMT
back to the top
here we go again
more paralysis and inaction whilst they squabble and plot amongst themselves
fucking shameful
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 20, 2022 21:18:54 GMT
back to the top here we go again more paralysis and inaction whilst they squabble and plot amongst themselves fucking shameful I would not be at all surprised to see Bozo the bullshitter back in No 10. Will be entertaining to see how the parliamentary party who got rid of him previously tries to play that, not least the 58 or so who refused to work for him in govt, and 148 who voted to oust him in his own personal confidence vote...
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 20, 2022 21:37:37 GMT
Fair play to you for warning against Truss long before the nightmare came to pass.
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Post by cvillestokie on Oct 20, 2022 21:50:04 GMT
As a state educated individual, i am in favour of all of the above policies save for top up tuition fees. Why are the above favourable to privately educated individuals? I would say the opposite is true. Why can only privately educated people support gay marriage!? Are you suggesting all state educated individuals are homophobic!? We have the most privately educated cabinet now since Major’s government. I believe the best person for the job should be given the job. Regardless of the status of their education. If I were in power, I would slowly abolish private schools by first removing their charitable status, and second by taxing them to subsidise state schools. "If I were in power, I would slowly abolish private schools by first removing their charitable status, and second by taxing them to subsidise state schools." And so would I ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) Why would you abolish someone’s choice to pay for better education for their children?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 20, 2022 22:29:12 GMT
back to the top here we go again more paralysis and inaction whilst they squabble and plot amongst themselves fucking shameful I would not be at all surprised to see Bozo the bullshitter back in No 10. Will be entertaining to see how the parliamentary party who got rid of him previously tries to play that, not least the 58 or so who refused to work for him in govt, and 148 who voted to oust him in his own personal confidence vote... Can’t see it at all myself. Was gonna surely they can’t be that stupid…
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Post by maninasuitcase on Oct 20, 2022 22:57:58 GMT
Lets get Paul Eddington in.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 21, 2022 5:33:34 GMT
I would not be at all surprised to see Bozo the bullshitter back in No 10. Will be entertaining to see how the parliamentary party who got rid of him previously tries to play that, not least the 58 or so who refused to work for him in govt, and 148 who voted to oust him in his own personal confidence vote... Can’t see it at all myself. Was gonna surely they can’t be that stupid… The only thing Tories care about is power. Integrity, credibility and doing what's right for the country cone a long way back compared to that. You also have to remember that 80% of the public don't know or care about politics. To them Johnson is just a funny, naughty, bumbling toff and they simply don't see or don't care about the lies, incompetence and ineptitude. It's weird but that's the great British electorate. I can definitely see him back for that reason. It obviously makes the parliamentary Tory party look to be full of raging hypocrites but they won't worry about that if they win the next election.
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Post by redstriper on Oct 21, 2022 7:36:02 GMT
Can’t see it at all myself. Was gonna surely they can’t be that stupid… The only thing Tories care about is power. Integrity, credibility and doing what's right for the country cone a long way back compared to that. You also have to remember that 80% of the public don't know or care about politics. To them Johnson is just a funny, naughty, bumbling toff and they simply don't see or don't care about the lies, incompetence and ineptitude. It's weird but that's the great British electorate. I can definitely see him back for that reason. It obviously makes the parliamentary Tory party look to be full of raging hypocrites but they won't worry about that if they win the next election. Spot on. They surely cannot win the next election, but despairingly he represents their best chance if you look at it logically rather than with any sense of morality. They should do the right thing by the country now and elect Sunak, but that was obviously the case 2 months ago and they didn't do it then.
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