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Post by spiderpuss on Dec 21, 2021 9:28:25 GMT
Id like the rule bought in that if the PM has to go then we must have a general election. People voted Boz in not some stand in, and therefore it should be reset time.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 9:32:14 GMT
After hearing from a fairly good source that Rishi threatened resignation if there are further restrictions, I'm all for getting dishy Rishi into downing street. I can forgive his socialist budget providing he vows never to seize our liberties. Still think Stevie Baker, the ultimate libertarian, would be great both from a practical perspective of vehemently opposing the fascist restrictions, but also from the perspective of winding up the woke mob... I think he'd send the hard line virtue signalling anoraks into a bigger frenzy than Trump and it'd be great to see 😊 Boris and Starmer are finished. Do you actually have any knowledge of fascism? Stop using the word in this context, it's ridiculous Probably a lot better knowledge than you given I studied it for the best part of a decade 😊 You seem to be incredibly dramatic, naive and associating fascism (I'm assuming) solely with Nazism (one form of fascism). That is like associating any left wing political party with Cuba. Regimes that displayed what we now call fascism existed long before the 20th century - Ancient Rome being a prime example - and believe it or not, hasn't always been centred around violence and war. In fact, it rarely ever starts that way. The whole philosophy is based on a hierarchy, dictatorial power, indoctrination, social status, authoritarianism, suppression of those of an alternative viewpoint, censorship, regimentation of society and control over the economy. If you can't see that we've witnessed a number of the points above over the past couple of years then you're either blind, indoctrinated or both. The racist, discriminatory "medical fascism" being witnessed across Europe in the form of vaccine passports and lockdowns of the unvaccinated should scare the shit out of anyone with a moral compass.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 21, 2021 9:39:05 GMT
Don't take him too seriously, he's usually just on a wind-up, throwing as much over-the-top nonsense at a post as he possibly can. Quite amusing, in its own way! Coming from you, oh the irony 😆 Apart from having previously admitted to doing just that to wind people up about Trump, you'd be bob on Joking aside, sometimes you do cut out the hyperbolic nonsense and have a good discussion, but most of the time it's over-the-top histrionics as lordb and numerous others have correctly identified a few posts earlier. I'd best leave it there though, as I suspect this exchange may be about to trigger someone into a renewed outbreak of madness...
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Dec 21, 2021 9:39:25 GMT
After hearing from a fairly good source that Rishi threatened resignation if there are further restrictions, I'm all for getting dishy Rishi into downing street. I can forgive his socialist budget providing he vows never to seize our liberties. Still think Stevie Baker, the ultimate libertarian, would be great both from a practical perspective of vehemently opposing the fascist restrictions, but also from the perspective of winding up the woke mob... I think he'd send the hard line virtue signalling anoraks into a bigger frenzy than Trump and it'd be great to see 😊 Boris and Starmer are finished. Do you actually have any knowledge of fascism? Stop using the word in this context, it's ridiculous The best (or worst, depending on how you look at) part of it, is that Facism is a bit to left-wing for him.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 21, 2021 9:42:16 GMT
Do you actually have any knowledge of fascism? Stop using the word in this context, it's ridiculous The whole philosophy is based on a hierarchy, dictatorial power, indoctrination, social status, authoritarianism, suppression of those of an alternative viewpoint, censorship, regimentation of society and control over the economy. That definition of fascism has been the order of things in this country (and others) for centuries. Have we always been a fascist country, in your eyes?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 9:42:43 GMT
Coming from you, oh the irony 😆 Apart from having previously admitted to doing just that to wind people up about Trump, you'd be bob on Joking aside, sometimes you do cut out the hyperbolic nonsense and have a good discussion, but most of the time it's over-the-top histrionics as lordb and numerous others have correctly identified a few posts earlier. I'll leave it there though, as I suspect this exchange may be about to trigger someone into a renewed outbreak of madness... And whenever anyone has the better of you in a debate or calls you out on something that makes you feel uncomfortable, you just go on some rant about one being hyperbolic, histrionics etc. Which of course you're entitled to do in a free society. 😉
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 9:44:44 GMT
The whole philosophy is based on a hierarchy, dictatorial power, indoctrination, social status, authoritarianism, suppression of those of an alternative viewpoint, censorship, regimentation of society and control over the economy. That definition of fascism has been the order of things in this country (and others) for centuries. Have we always been a fascist country, in your eyes? It depends what you're comparing it against. We are one of, if not THE most progressive, tolerant nation on the planet. Its a shame the past two years seem to have taken us back to the middle ages.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 9:45:20 GMT
Do you actually have any knowledge of fascism? Stop using the word in this context, it's ridiculous The best (or worst, depending on how you look at) part of it, is that Facism is a bit to left-wing for him. You've spelt it wrong.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 21, 2021 9:45:49 GMT
Apart from having previously admitted to doing just that to wind people up about Trump, you'd be bob on Joking aside, sometimes you do cut out the hyperbolic nonsense and have a good discussion, but most of the time it's over-the-top histrionics as lordb and numerous others have correctly identified a few posts earlier. I'll leave it there though, as I suspect this exchange may be about to trigger someone into a renewed outbreak of madness... And whenever anyone has the better of you in a debate or calls you out on something that makes you feel uncomfortable, you just go on some rant about one being hyperbolic, histrionics etc. Which of course you're entitled to do in a free society. 😉 Come on, Bianco, anyone can see you're the most over-the-top poster on here, your posts are full of hyperbole and histrionics! It's quite funny to read to be fair, especially since you admitted to doing it for a wind-up most of the time so it's easy enough to see it for what it is, but let's not pretend you're being serious, surely!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 21, 2021 9:47:22 GMT
That definition of fascism has been the order of things in this country (and others) for centuries. Have we always been a fascist country, in your eyes? It depends what you're comparing it against. We are one of, if not THE most progressive, tolerant nation on the planet. Its a shame the past two years seem to have taken us back to the middle ages. I was comparing your definition of fascism with how our own country has been run for pretty much forever. They sound very similar approaches! I think you might need to go back and do a bit more studying
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 9:50:06 GMT
And whenever anyone has the better of you in a debate or calls you out on something that makes you feel uncomfortable, you just go on some rant about one being hyperbolic, histrionics etc. Which of course you're entitled to do in a free society. 😉 Come on, Bianco, anyone can see you're the most over-the-top poster on here, your posts are full of hyperbole and histrionics! It's quite funny to read to be fair, especially since you admitted to doing it for a wind-up most of the time so it's easy enough to see it for what it is, but let's not pretend you're being serious, surely! You're doing it again 😆 You can't just try and cancel a debate (or indeed skip over a fairly important question from Lordb) with this "you're in it for a wind up". Of course there's the odd debate where I think many posters may exaggerate their stance - you do it on pretty much every post these days - but I'd suggest on a serious issue like fascism sweeping across Europe, there is no place for such language ☺️
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 9:52:14 GMT
It depends what you're comparing it against. We are one of, if not THE most progressive, tolerant nation on the planet. Its a shame the past two years seem to have taken us back to the middle ages. I was comparing your definition of fascism with how our own country has been run for pretty much forever. They sound very similar approaches! I think you might need to go back and do a bit more studying Up until the last couple of years have you been censored, oppressed, had your business shut down by government or had your children forcibly removed from education by the government? Come off it.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 21, 2021 9:52:55 GMT
Come on, Bianco, anyone can see you're the most over-the-top poster on here, your posts are full of hyperbole and histrionics! It's quite funny to read to be fair, especially since you admitted to doing it for a wind-up most of the time so it's easy enough to see it for what it is, but let's not pretend you're being serious, surely! You're doing it again 😆 You can't just try and cancel a debate (or indeed skip over a fairly important question from Lordb) with this "you're in it for a wind up". Of course there's the odd debate where I think many posters may exaggerate their stance - you do it on pretty much every post these days - but I'd suggest on a serious issue like fascism sweeping across Europe, there is no place for such language ☺️ No-one's "cancelling" anything. Questioning your over-the-top use of fascism in this context and understanding of it, yes
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 21, 2021 9:57:02 GMT
I was comparing your definition of fascism with how our own country has been run for pretty much forever. They sound very similar approaches! I think you might need to go back and do a bit more studying Up until the last couple of years have you been censored, oppressed, had your business shut down by government or had your children forcibly removed from education by the government? Come off it. Your definition of fascism: "The whole philosophy is based on a hierarchy, dictatorial power, indoctrination, social status, authoritarianism, suppression of those of an alternative viewpoint, censorship, regimentation of society and control over the economy". That's how this country has effectively been run for centuries, from the time when the king/queen was all powerful ("dictatorial") right up to our "indoctrinated", "socially static", "authoritarian", "regimented society" and "centralised economy" based on a "hierarchy" of social status in our current democratic process. All of those highlighted words or phrases are relevant today and have been for decades, if not centuries. I'm not sure anyone else would see the UK as a fascist state, but your definition fits pretty well!
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 9:58:44 GMT
You're doing it again 😆 You can't just try and cancel a debate (or indeed skip over a fairly important question from Lordb) with this "you're in it for a wind up". Of course there's the odd debate where I think many posters may exaggerate their stance - you do it on pretty much every post these days - but I'd suggest on a serious issue like fascism sweeping across Europe, there is no place for such language ☺️ No-one's "cancelling" anything. Questioning your over-the-top use of fascism in this context and understanding of it, yes What aspect of what we've seen over the past couple of years doesn't fall under the definition of suppression and authoritarianism? You've been locked up for over a year and had your liberties seized while those who told you to lock yourself away and seized your liberties were basing their opinions on fake data (now widely accepted), censored science, censored media, discriminatory campaigns and a government that were literally having celebrations with cheese and wine why you were allowed outside on your own for an hour a day.
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Post by adri2008 on Dec 21, 2021 10:02:23 GMT
I think BoJo will likely be put out to pasture in the summer (some sort of mutual agreement) and his replacement will be Sunak.
Hunt is the other obvious candidate.
Gove is way too divisive to be PM. I actually think he's one of the better ministers though - whether you agree with him or not, he at least takes his brief's seriously and actively tries to get things done.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 21, 2021 10:05:04 GMT
No-one's "cancelling" anything. Questioning your over-the-top use of fascism in this context and understanding of it, yes What aspect of what we've seen over the past couple of years doesn't fall under the definition of suppression and authoritarianism? You've been locked up for over a year and had your liberties seized while those who told you to lock yourself away and seized your liberties were basing their opinions on fake data (now widely accepted), censored science, censored media, discriminatory campaigns and a government that were literally having celebrations with cheese and wine why you were allowed outside on your own for an hour a day. Well, that's your view on it. One that, as I've said elsewhere, is not shared by the majority of people in this country. Are they fed up with Covid and wanting it to go away? Yes. Prepared to do what they consider to be right to prevent the spread? Also yes. I'm not surprised that the ruling elite ignored their own rules, when was it not the case? Let them eat cake, etc. That's the hypocrisy of the ruling elite, not fascism! You're entitled to your view, which absolutely no-one is "cancelling", but it's quite over-the-top so don't be surprised or upset if, as happened here, it gets questioned or ridiculed.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 10:11:19 GMT
What aspect of what we've seen over the past couple of years doesn't fall under the definition of suppression and authoritarianism? You've been locked up for over a year and had your liberties seized while those who told you to lock yourself away and seized your liberties were basing their opinions on fake data (now widely accepted), censored science, censored media, discriminatory campaigns and a government that were literally having celebrations with cheese and wine why you were allowed outside on your own for an hour a day. Well, that's your view on it. One that, as I've said elsewhere, is not shared by the majority of people in this country. Are they fed up with Covid and wanting it to go away? Yes. Prepared to do what they consider to be right to prevent the spread? Also yes. I'm not surprised that the ruling elite ignored their own rules, when was it not the case? Let them eat cake, etc. That's the hypocrisy of the ruling elite, not fascism! You're entitled to your view, which absolutely no-one is "cancelling", but it's quite over-the-top so don't be surprised or upset if, as happened here, it gets questioned or ridiculed. I agree, those who dare question lockdowns and restrictions have been in the minority on this which is why we're in such a catastrophic mess. Mass non compliance was always going to be our only way out of restrictions. Thankfully the tide has turned as the rather hysterical Good Morning Britain poll illustrated (deleted shortly after they saw the result) and indeed, the latest yougov poll which finally shows over 50% of the nation would oppose lockdowns and further restrictions. The people have had enough and the government know it. Thankfully there are some good Conservative mps who are fighting back against the absurd measures. Its a shame the opposition doesn't do the same.
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Post by shakermaker on Dec 21, 2021 12:06:12 GMT
Come on down Stevie Baker. One of the only elected politicians in this nation that is vehemently opposing the fascism unfolding before us. We desperately need a libertarian to take control of this country and obliterate the disgusting, corrupt, discriminatory, evil measures that are crippling lives, livelihoods, businesses and children. Supported by BOTH the government and its oppressive opposition. This should be SB's inauguration tune 😊 Steve Baker was my No. 1 choice for PM even before Bozo won. He always talks a great deal of sense and comes across very level-headed and intelligent without any airs and graces. After the bold and brash leadership of Bozo which has worn thin with everyone now, we need someone calm and collected who just gets the job done efficiently. Because Steve has never held a Cabinet job though, I don't think he'd come into the reckoning.
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Post by dexter97 on Dec 21, 2021 13:48:00 GMT
I’m always a little suspicious of anyone that claims to be both socially conservative and libertarian. I suppose it depends on how you choose to define libertarianism, but it often seems that many are vociferous advocates of individual autonomy, just so long as the outcomes align with their own beliefs and preferences. I don’t know much about Mr Baker except that he’s somewhat religious, so I’ll be surprised if his views are on drugs, abortion, assisted dying or same-sex marriage have much to do with liberty. His removal of Dorries from that WhatsApp group the other day didn’t really do much for his ‘freedom of speech’ credentials either.
Probably irrelevant though, as I’m pretty sure it’ll be a two-horse race between Rishi Nutsack and Jeremy ‘Rhymes with Hunt’.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Dec 21, 2021 13:57:45 GMT
Come on down Stevie Baker. One of the only elected politicians in this nation that is vehemently opposing the fascism unfolding before us. We desperately need a libertarian to take control of this country and obliterate the disgusting, corrupt, discriminatory, evil measures that are crippling lives, livelihoods, businesses and children. Supported by BOTH the government and its oppressive opposition. This should be SB's inauguration tune 😊 Steve Baker was my No. 1 choice for PM even before Bozo won. He always talks a great deal of sense and comes across very level-headed and intelligent without any airs and graces. After the bold and brash leadership of Bozo which has worn thin with everyone now, we need someone calm and collected who just gets the job done efficiently. Because Steve has never held a Cabinet job though, I don't think he'd come into the reckoning. Steve Baker is currently the biggest attention seeking loon in the Conservative Party, and that is arguably his greatest achievement as it is by no means an easy feat. If you put to one side his latest drum-thumping about the values of liberty and freedom (despite campaigning to remove those very things from UK citizens from 27 other countries) it is his performance at Lehman Bros. that would be of biggest concern. I wouldn't trust him with an ISA let alone public finances, and that alone probably explains why he has never held a cabinet position. In fact, outside the cabinet he is pretty much synonymous with the abysmal quality of Conservative MP's that we are now all lumbered with.
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 21, 2021 14:48:24 GMT
That definition of fascism has been the order of things in this country (and others) for centuries. Have we always been a fascist country, in your eyes? It depends what you're comparing it against. We are one of, if not THE most progressive, tolerant nation on the planet. Its a shame the past two years seem to have taken us back to the middle ages. You've been reading too much MSM again to come to that conclusion. That view is usually espoused if you're white, wealthy, and live in Surrey. OS.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 15:29:15 GMT
It depends what you're comparing it against. We are one of, if not THE most progressive, tolerant nation on the planet. Its a shame the past two years seem to have taken us back to the middle ages. You've been reading too much MSM again to come to that conclusion. That view is usually espoused if you're white, wealthy, and live in Surrey. OS. Aside from your racist, generalised, misinformed comment (I could really embarrass you here but I won't), I'd be fascinated to hear from you, the abundance of other countries that have more progressive, tolerant societies? I'm all ears.
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Post by bucknall67 on Dec 21, 2021 15:36:13 GMT
Gove.
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Post by 828492 on Dec 21, 2021 15:44:43 GMT
You've been reading too much MSM again to come to that conclusion. That view is usually espoused if you're white, wealthy, and live in Surrey. OS. Aside from your racist, generalised, misinformed comment (I could really embarrass you here but I won't), I'd be fascinated to hear from you, the abundance of other countries that have more progressive, tolerant societies? I'm all ears. We are in the third decade of the third millennium of the common era. We live in an hereditary monarchy. Our head of state is a birthright. I do not regard this as in any way ‘progressive’. True, we have now abandoned primogeniture so that should the first born child of the monarch or the next in line to the throne be female she can in her turn become monarch. That is some sort of progress, but not what I regard as progressive.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 21, 2021 15:49:56 GMT
Are there any White British men in the running for the Indian or Pakistani parliaments 🤔 What’s your point….Sajid Javid, Priti Patel and Rishi Sunak are all British.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 15:56:26 GMT
Aside from your racist, generalised, misinformed comment (I could really embarrass you here but I won't), I'd be fascinated to hear from you, the abundance of other countries that have more progressive, tolerant societies? I'm all ears. We are in the third decade of the third millennium of the common era. We live in an hereditary monarchy. Our head of state is a birthright. I do not regard this as in any way ‘progressive’. True, we have now abandoned primogeniture so that should the first born child of the monarch or the next in line to the throne be female she can in her turn become monarch. That is some sort of progress, but not what I regard as progressive. Your views on the monarchy aside, where is the long list of societies that you feel are more tolerant and more progressive than the UK? I'll help you out, at a real push you could go for one of the nordic countries. Although I'm not sure even Denmark (chucking immigrants in Africa) or Sweden (incredible levels of racial tension there at the moment both in the Riksdag and wider Swedish society) make the cut. The Norwegian Conservative party seem to be doing a decent job I guess?
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Post by dexter97 on Dec 21, 2021 15:58:10 GMT
You've been reading too much MSM again to come to that conclusion. That view is usually espoused if you're white, wealthy, and live in Surrey. OS. Aside from your racist, generalised, misinformed comment (I could really embarrass you here but I won't), I'd be fascinated to hear from you, the abundance of other countries that have more progressive, tolerant societies? I'm all ears. It depends how you crunch the stats, of course, but a quick scan of three different reports that I Googled put the UK between 13th and 16th in the lists of most tolerant / least racist countries in the world. Not a record to be ashamed of, but not quite measuring up to the likes of the three Scandinavian nations, Netherlands, Canada, NZ, Ireland and a few others. Certainly nothing to support the ‘most tolerant in the world’ claim that’s often chucked about.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 21, 2021 16:07:44 GMT
Aside from your racist, generalised, misinformed comment (I could really embarrass you here but I won't), I'd be fascinated to hear from you, the abundance of other countries that have more progressive, tolerant societies? I'm all ears. It depends how you crunch the stats, of course, but a quick scan of three different reports that I Googled put the UK between 13th and 16th in the lists of most tolerant / least racist countries in the world. Not a record to be ashamed of, but not quite measuring up to the likes of the three Scandinavian nations, Netherlands, Canada, NZ, Ireland and a few others. Certainly nothing to support the ‘most tolerant in the world’ claim that’s often chucked about. So based on your quick Google search, you would be happy to concede that we are "one of the most tolerant/least racist nations in the world?" I can't believe you actually feel the need to dispute such an obvious point. I'd suggest the nations you mention are much of a muchness. Is Ireland REALLY more tolerant than the UK? A Bengali friend of mine moved out to Cork a few years ago and the foreign community out there is tiny, he hates it and frequently gets racially abused, indeed in one instance, violently. Clearly thats one example and such incidents occur here, but he has certainly found Ireland a more racist society then the UK. I'd be happy to hear arguments in favour of Ireland being more tolerant and progressive than the UK. Either way, 13th out of 195 countries is a decent standing right?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 21, 2021 17:10:13 GMT
I’m always a little suspicious of anyone that claims to be both socially conservative and libertarian. I suppose it depends on how you choose to define libertarianism, but it often seems that many are vociferous advocates of individual autonomy, just so long as the outcomes align with their own beliefs and preferences. I don’t know much about Mr Baker except that he’s somewhat religious, so I’ll be surprised if his views are on drugs, abortion, assisted dying or same-sex marriage have much to do with liberty. His removal of Dorries from that WhatsApp group the other day didn’t really do much for his ‘freedom of speech’ credentials either. Probably irrelevant though, as I’m pretty sure it’ll be a two-horse race between Rishi Nutsack and Jeremy ‘Rhymes with Hunt’. That's the fundamental conflict at the heart of libertarianism, isn't it. They're absolutely in favour of everybody having their own slice of individual freedoms and for the state to just butt out, right up to the point that someone else's idea of libertarianism contradicts their own, at which point all hell breaks loose, "something should be done" and all sorts of state enacted legislation and enforcement should be put in place to protect the first person's idea of libertarianism! It's basically a choice between true libertarianism for everyone ie anarchy in the true political sense of the word, or some form of, preferably elected, representative control, which is not in fact libertarianism at all and resembles the kind of arrangement we have currently. (Assuming most of us agree we're not actually living in a fascist state, that is!). Bit of a digression from who's going to be PM once Bluffer goes back to light entertainment, but I suspect there are no real libertarians at all in the House, just a few who will play on it to curry favour with the alt-right.
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