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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 14, 2022 9:44:21 GMT
I'm not a remainer, John. However name me one UK remainer with suffucient influence who is currently preventing what was voted for being implemented? Just one. Any name will do John. I don't think politics works quite like that..but, I don't know if you want to rewrite history but the whole of the establishment/ political parties tried to reverse Brexit for 3 years after the referendum. Remember " confirmatory vote" Hard or soft Brexit etc etc...most politicians tried to prevent implementation. For ne May was inevitable of the worst, deliberately misleading those in her own party. The battle still goes on. Mind you, because you mix it up with your opposition to the Tories and this parliament I suppose you choose not to see it. Not one name then. Thought not. Your shit and shaky Brexit is at the hands of Brexiteers and Brexiteers only. If you are genuinely concerned it's not going too well, you need to take it up with them.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 14, 2022 9:50:22 GMT
I don't think politics works quite like that..but, I don't know if you want to rewrite history but the whole of the establishment/ political parties tried to reverse Brexit for 3 years after the referendum. Remember " confirmatory vote" Hard or soft Brexit etc etc...most politicians tried to prevent implementation. For ne May was inevitable of the worst, deliberately misleading those in her own party. The battle still goes on. Mind you, because you mix it up with your opposition to the Tories and this parliament I suppose you choose not to see it. Not one name then. Thought not. Your shit and shaky Brexit is at the hands of Brexiteers and Brexiteers only. If you are genuinely concerned it's not going too well, you need to take it up with them. I've just named May....and pointed to the concerted effort to stop Brext, remember " Bollocks to Brexit ", by a ' serious' political party....just because we've had the 2019 election doesn't nean it is all over......it's more to do with your inability to accept that some people don't think the same as you.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 14, 2022 9:56:18 GMT
I'm not a remainer, John. However name me one UK remainer with suffucient influence who is currently preventing what was voted for being implemented? Just one. Any name will do John. I don't think politics works quite like that..but, I don't know if you want to rewrite history but the whole of the establishment/ political parties tried to reverse Brexit for 3 years after the referendum. Remember " confirmatory vote" Hard or soft Brexit etc etc...most politicians tried to prevent implementation. For ne May was inevitable of the worst, deliberately misleading those in her own party. The battle still goes on. Mind you, because you mix it up with your opposition to the Tories and this parliament I suppose you choose not to see it. What battle? In another thread you'd telling us there was nothing to discuss. Brexit was about leaving the EU. It's done. We've left. It's over. Which it is. Therefore anything that happens now is post Brexit - British parliament making it's own decisions free of outside influence which - we were told - was what it was all about and that's perfectly reasonable - life moves on. By saying 'the battle still goes on' you're sounding like Castro or Kruschev , always on about 'the revolution' - where idealogical purity became more important than the welbeing of the population.
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 14, 2022 9:57:39 GMT
Not one name then. Thought not. Your shit and shaky Brexit is at the hands of Brexiteers and Brexiteers only. If you are genuinely concerned it's not going too well, you need to take it up with them. I've just named May....and pointed to the concerted effort to stop Brext, remember " Bollocks to Brexit ", by a ' serious' political party....just because we've had the 2019 election doesn't nean it is all over......it's more to do with your inability to accept that some people don't think the same as you. Other than the backstop, what were the key differences in Johnson's deal and May's deal, John?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 14, 2022 10:00:14 GMT
I've just named May....and pointed to the concerted effort to stop Brext, remember " Bollocks to Brexit ", by a ' serious' political party....just because we've had the 2019 election doesn't nean it is all over......it's more to do with your inability to accept that some people don't think the same as you. Other than the backstop, what were the key differences in Johnson's deal and May's deal, John? Boris should not have signed May's deal, hence some of the current problems.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 14, 2022 10:12:50 GMT
I don't think politics works quite like that..but, I don't know if you want to rewrite history but the whole of the establishment/ political parties tried to reverse Brexit for 3 years after the referendum. Remember " confirmatory vote" Hard or soft Brexit etc etc...most politicians tried to prevent implementation. For ne May was inevitable of the worst, deliberately misleading those in her own party. The battle still goes on. Mind you, because you mix it up with your opposition to the Tories and this parliament I suppose you choose not to see it. What battle? In another thread you'd telling us there was nothing to discuss. Brexit was about leaving the EU. It's done. We've left. It's over. Which it is. Therefore anything that happens now is post Brexit - British parliament making it's own decisions free of outside influence which - we were told - was what it was all about and that's perfectly reasonable - life moves on. By saying 'the battle still goes on' you're sounding like Castro or Kruschev , always on about 'the revolution' - where idealogical purity became more important than the welbeing of the population. A bit too simplistic really. Of course a " battle " still goes on to ensure democracy. We have left the EU, but many people would still be happy to achieve " Brexit in name inly"
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 14, 2022 10:13:06 GMT
I don't think politics works quite like that..but, I don't know if you want to rewrite history but the whole of the establishment/ political parties tried to reverse Brexit for 3 years after the referendum. Remember " confirmatory vote" Hard or soft Brexit etc etc...most politicians tried to prevent implementation. For ne May was inevitable of the worst, deliberately misleading those in her own party. The battle still goes on. Mind you, because you mix it up with your opposition to the Tories and this parliament I suppose you choose not to see it. What battle? In another thread you'd telling us there was nothing to discuss. Brexit was about leaving the EU. It's done. We've left. It's over. Which it is. Therefore anything that happens now is post Brexit - British parliament making it's own decisions free of outside influence which - we were told - was what it was all about and that's perfectly reasonable - life moves on. By saying 'the battle still goes on' you're sounding like Castro or Kruschev , always on about 'the revolution' - where idealogical purity became more important than the welbeing of the population. A bit too simplistic really. Of course a " battle " still goes on to ensure democracy. We have left the EU, but many people would still be happy to achieve " Brexit in name only"
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 14, 2022 10:15:36 GMT
I did not realise that, I thought she was one of the Brexit mafia! She did campaign for it whereas Liz Truss did not. I do agree if they are after her it may not be cut and dried. The loons Gods of Brexit have concluded she is not Brexit pure enough! Lest we forget this particular 'God of Brexit' is on record as saying "Our interest is to be part of the biggest possible market with the fewest possible barriers.The European single market gives us that. The European free trade agreements gives us that. Why would we want to depart from that?” Conviction politics.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jul 14, 2022 10:21:29 GMT
The difference between Truss and Mordaunt on Brexit appears to be scorched earth vs something less than that (I don't know how much less). Truss represents the status quo and Mordaunt is on the periphery, the battle here is not about Brexit, it's about who has the power.
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 14, 2022 10:36:09 GMT
The difference between Truss and Mordaunt on Brexit appears to be scorched earth vs something less than that (I don't know how much less). Truss represents the status quo and Mordaunt is on the periphery, the battle here is not about Brexit, it's about who has the power. I think Brexit looms large like a big dark cloud, (strangely more for those that got what they wanted than anyone else) but you are right, its about factions and power. This race will start to become filthy over the weekend as their client journalists do each of their bidding in the Sunday press. Reputations will be trashed, fissures exposed and all will expose how unfit they are before Government before putting their makeup on next week, telling us how united they are! The Tory Party only exists for power and power alone.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 14, 2022 10:36:28 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 14, 2022 10:53:31 GMT
Perhaps they want to ensure that the Brexit they believed people voted for is honoured. T hings change in politics and it is clear that many people in power would still love an arrangement whereby we are " tied in " to the EU.I don't think they will ever give up, but they hope Brexiteers will . I'm not a remainer, John. However name me one UK remainer with suffucient influence who is currently preventing what was voted for being implemented? Just one. Any name will do John. Only a messageboard, I know, but there are few things more amusing than seeing BJR tie himself up in knots. It always happens. I think it comes from a desire to hitch everything that isn't working as being the fault of "the Left" or Remainers or Labour and when that's shown to be palpable nonsense, the retreat into ever-dizzying circles of contradiction
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 14, 2022 11:08:18 GMT
Shades of 'strong and stable' here
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 14, 2022 12:37:57 GMT
This narrative about Conservative prospective leaders being representative of minorities, and reflecting diversity is such a ridiculous joke but a very politicised one. How the hell is multi-millionaire Sunak representative of South Asian taxi drivers in Bradford for example? Just in the same way that politicians in India and Pakistan are not representative of the people who live in slums, or Etonians are not representative of people in this country. This concept of representation in this country is so superficial and based on tick boxes bearing little relationship to reality. You only have to hear the way any Tory speaks to realise they're not representative of anyone but the elite and rich. If any one of them were doing a tour of the pubs pre-Stoke match then I'm sure most people after hearing them speak would be thinking... 'posh wanker!'. Of course if Boris uses embarrassing phrases such as 'them's the breaks' or calls someone 'Captain Crash-a-roony Snoozefest' then that makes him just like the common man. On a side note, did anyone else see that backbencher publicly thank Boris yesterday for levelling up Stoke on Trent? Has that happened? They basically try to con us into thinking that they are representative in some way and use any superficial device to do so, and they get support from the media who are equally superficial in this respect. There is no critical analysis of politicians in this country of any depth these days. As for levelling up, another superficial catchphrase produced out of a marketing workshop to con people into thinking something is being addressed when it is clearly not.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 14, 2022 13:19:07 GMT
What battle? In another thread you'd telling us there was nothing to discuss. Brexit was about leaving the EU. It's done. We've left. It's over. Which it is. Therefore anything that happens now is post Brexit - British parliament making it's own decisions free of outside influence which - we were told - was what it was all about and that's perfectly reasonable - life moves on. By saying 'the battle still goes on' you're sounding like Castro or Kruschev , always on about 'the revolution' - where idealogical purity became more important than the welbeing of the population. A bit too simplistic really. Of course a " battle " still goes on to ensure democracy. We have left the EU, but many people would still be happy to achieve " Brexit in name only" Democracy in respect of the referendum was honoured on 31/1/21 when we left the EU John. I don't of know anyone - certainly no-one in any position of influence- looking to achieve "Brexit in name only". Though I'm sure many Brexiters would like there to be as it would provide a convenient diversion from their failure to deliver any meaningful benefits. But even if there are that's equally what democracy is about - you can't blame people for wanting to look for alternative routes out of an unholy mess.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 14, 2022 13:34:27 GMT
Classic Truss ...
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jul 14, 2022 14:39:19 GMT
Can't imagine many of those Braverman votes going to Rishi.
Good result for Liz Truss, especially when Badenoch drops out next week.
Where Tugendhat's votes go for me will determine who Truss goes up against.
Truss vs. Mordaunt final would be my prediction.
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Post by questionable on Jul 14, 2022 15:07:10 GMT
Can't imagine many of those Braverman votes going to Rishi. Good result for Liz Truss, especially when Badenoch drops out next week. Where Tugendhat's votes go for me will determine who Truss goes up against. Truss vs. Mordaunt final would be my prediction. I hope so, Sunak would be an absolute disaster up against Labour, Conservatives would be obliterated come the elections. Let’s not forget here Sunak was also fined for his part in partygate, tossers.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jul 14, 2022 15:31:20 GMT
Can't imagine many of those Braverman votes going to Rishi. Good result for Liz Truss, especially when Badenoch drops out next week. Where Tugendhat's votes go for me will determine who Truss goes up against. Truss vs. Mordaunt final would be my prediction. I hope so, Sunak would be an absolute disaster up against Labour, Conservatives would be obliterated come the elections. Let’s not forget here Sunak was also fined for his part in partygate, tossers. Oh, I'd love Sunak to win. He is tainted and voters will have a field day. If the country rewards this current crop of Conservatives with an election victory after what's happened over the past 3 years it will be appalling.
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Post by hotterpotter on Jul 14, 2022 21:20:08 GMT
Liz Truss is so odd.
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Post by shakermaker on Jul 15, 2022 10:00:04 GMT
Can't imagine many of those Braverman votes going to Rishi. Good result for Liz Truss, especially when Badenoch drops out next week. Where Tugendhat's votes go for me will determine who Truss goes up against. Truss vs. Mordaunt final would be my prediction. Looks like most of Braverman’s supporters are putting their weight behind Dizzy Lizzy. Think she’s a shoe-in for the final two, all down to whether it’s Penny or Rishi Rich who joins her. Penny was behind Rishi in the votes, so she has some catching up to do.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 15, 2022 10:30:31 GMT
Can't imagine many of those Braverman votes going to Rishi. Good result for Liz Truss, especially when Badenoch drops out next week. Where Tugendhat's votes go for me will determine who Truss goes up against. Truss vs. Mordaunt final would be my prediction. Looks like most of Braverman’s supporters are putting their weight behind Dizzy Lizzy. Think she’s a shoe-in for the final two, all down to whether it’s Penny or Rishi Rich who joins her. Penny was behind Rishi in the votes, so she has some catching up to do. I may be wrong (I often am) but strikes me Sunak is now getting most of the votes he's going to get. Truss will get a lot of Braverman and Badenoch's votes, Mordaunt a lot of Tudenghat's - so I'm reckoning on the Blue Rinsers and Colonel Gussets having two 'ladies' to choose from over the summer.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 15, 2022 10:35:37 GMT
Truss getting the job would be brilliant for the opposition.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 15, 2022 10:44:22 GMT
Truss getting the job would be brilliant for the opposition. Says it all when the opposition are hoping for someone less shit than them
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 15, 2022 11:08:06 GMT
Truss getting the job would be brilliant for the opposition. Says it all when the opposition are hoping for someone less shit than them Why not? Seemed to work all right for the Tories with Corbyn.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 15, 2022 12:30:20 GMT
Says it all when the opposition are hoping for someone less shit than them Why not? Seemed to work all right for the Tories with Corbyn. Nope it’s already pretty established that corbins flip flopping over brexit pretty much done him in
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 15, 2022 12:41:55 GMT
Why not? Seemed to work all right for the Tories with Corbyn. Nope it’s already pretty established that corbins flip flopping over brexit pretty much done him in During the election campaign for 2017 which May called both sides were 'flip-flopping' over Brexit. Pretty much all May had to offer was 'I'm not Jeremy Corbyn'.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 15, 2022 12:56:08 GMT
Truss getting the job would be brilliant for the opposition. I think you are right. She is by some distance the worst public performer of all the candidates in this contest. She reminds me of Theresa May in that regard. I wonder if this weekend's TV "specials" might cook her goose. If she survives that ordeal, I reckon she'll be odds on to be in the final two which probably means she'll be up against Dishy Rishi.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 15, 2022 12:59:29 GMT
Nope it’s already pretty established that corbins flip flopping over brexit pretty much done him in During the election campaign for 2017 which May called both sides were 'flip-flopping' over Brexit. Pretty much all May had to offer was 'I'm not Jeremy Corbyn'. I think Theresa May's 2017 election campaign was the worst election campaign of all time. She called it with the expectation of converting a slim majority in to a landslide and ended up losing her majority. And it was all down to her.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 15, 2022 13:09:25 GMT
Truss getting the job would be brilliant for the opposition. I think you are right. She is by some distance the worst public performer of all the candidates in this contest. She reminds me of Theresa May in that regard. I wonder if this weekend's TV "specials" might cook her goose. If she survives that ordeal, I reckon she'll be odds on to be in the final two which probably means she'll be up against Dishy Rishi. That's if she even finds the stage.......
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