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Post by partickpotter on Jul 11, 2022 10:34:42 GMT
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 11, 2022 11:55:28 GMT
PLIBT
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 11, 2022 12:02:23 GMT
Isn’t there a distinct lack of the actual current diversity of the leadership election in that picture
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 11, 2022 12:05:44 GMT
Sunak has got it right in so much as folk pedalling fairy tales. The reality being avoided is that cutting taxes needs to be accompanied by cutting public spending. So, it’s disingenuous of anyone to talk about tax cuts without explaining where public spending cuts will come from, particularly in an environment of high inflation. This, btw, is the trap that Thatcher and Howe fell into at the start of the 80s. Couldn’t agree more. Absolutely. If and when that question gets asked, get ready for lots of bullshit about efficiency and cutting out waste. What they really mean is cutting services.
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2022 12:12:55 GMT
This is lifted from The Spectator this morning. It’s pretty depressing reading unless you believe the best way forwards for this country is to pay unrealistically low taxes, leave our national debt untouched, lower the level of public services to an even more depressing state than they already at, and waste billions of Pounds Sterling on military hardware bought chiefly from the good ol’ U S of A. This is what we've learned about each of the contenders so far. Sajid Javid: Has a focus on tax cuts. He wants to scrap the National Insurance hike and cut corporation tax by 1p a year to 15 per cent. Ruled out another Scottish referendum for at least ten years. Jeremy Hunt: Has picked Esther McVey as his ‘running mate’, an American-style campaigning device that James explores here. Also wants to cut corporation tax to 15 per cent in the autumn Budget. Opposed to another Scottish referendum. Grant Shapps: Will scrap next year’s corporation tax (it’s set to rise from 19 per cent to 25 per cent) and bring forward the 1p cut to income tax to take effect immediately. Tom Tugendhat: Wants to drop the NI rise and cut fuel duty. Has offered probably the most memorable line of the contest when asked, as Theresa May was, what the naughtiest thing he’s ever done is. He replied: ‘I invaded a country once.’ Rishi Sunak: Says Tory members shouldn’t believe the ‘fairytales’ offered by other candidates – but hasn’t set out his own economic policies yet. Penny Mordaunt: Has clarified her position on sex and gender, saying that while she believes trans women are women for most social purposes, biological sex is real. Her launch has been a little bumpier than the others for this reason: a number of the other candidates are insisting that Mordaunt tried to get the word ‘woman’ deleted from legislation allowing ministers to take maternity leave. Paralympian Jonnie Peacock has also asked to be removed from her campaign video. Suella Braverman: The first to declare – announcing her bid even before Johnson had resigned. Wants Britain to leave the European Convention on Human Rights and is concerned that some of the other candidates want to unpick Brexit. Pledges to cut VAT on energy and reduce the planned tax rises. Will scrap the net zero target. Says ‘single-sex spaces are perfectly normal, especially in schools’ and warns against going ‘down the identity politics rabbit hole’. Kemi Badenoch: Running on a pitch to speak the 'truth' to the party. Lower taxes and opposed to the Online Safety Bill. Nadhim Zahawi: Will boost defence spending and reduce the tax burden. All the candidates have backed the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill but have offered varying levels of rhetoric about it. Tugendhat, for instance, has said the ‘mood music’ would change once Johnson has gone, and that ‘we could legally negotiate some proper changes to the protocol’.Sunak has got it right in so much as folk pedalling fairy tales. The reality being avoided is that cutting taxes needs to be accompanied by cutting public spending.
So, it’s disingenuous of anyone to talk about tax cuts without explaining where public spending cuts will come from, particularly in an environment of high inflation.This, btw, is the trap that Thatcher and Howe fell into at the start of the 80s. Basically what Starmer's said.
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Post by andystokey on Jul 11, 2022 12:18:17 GMT
Absolutely. If and when that question gets asked, get ready for lots of bullshit about efficiency and cutting out waste. What they really mean is cutting services. Longest waiting lists in the NHS in living memory, millions waiting more than a year for an operation or treatment. Understaffed nurses and doctors and yet the NHS can make efficiency savings to pay for tax cuts. Promises for the govt to supplement energy bills which will spike again in autumn, a war to fund in Ukraine and a green agenda to keep promises in our own UK COP less than a year old. More debt than weve had for years with interest and inflation increasing. Yet apparently there is money in the coffers to pay for a GE bribe. 10 out of this 11 signed up without dissent and cheered the Chancellor and cabinet colleagues less than a few weeks ago. They must think we are mugs.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 11, 2022 12:34:16 GMT
Isn’t there a distinct lack of the actual current diversity of the leadership election in that picture I did think the same. But, it’s the best picture I could find in the two seconds I spent searching!
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Post by Veritas on Jul 11, 2022 12:35:53 GMT
Absolutely. If and when that question gets asked, get ready for lots of bullshit about efficiency and cutting out waste. What they really mean is cutting services. Longest waiting lists in the NHS in living memory, millions waiting more than a year for an operation or treatment. Understaffed nurses and doctors and yet the NHS can make efficiency savings to pay for tax cuts. Promises for the govt to supplement energy bills which will spike again in autumn, a war to fund in Ukraine and a green agenda to keep promises in our own UK COP less than a year old. More debt than weve had for years with interest and inflation increasing. Yet apparently there is money in the coffers to pay for a GE bribe. 10 out of this 11 signed up without dissent and cheered the Chancellor and cabinet colleagues less than a few weeks ago. They must think we are mugs. Yes they do and we keep proving them correct
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 11, 2022 12:38:18 GMT
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Post by Veritas on Jul 11, 2022 12:39:50 GMT
In Medieval times, many towns had "Mock Mayors" who were usually slightly comic jester/fool type characters whose job it was to keep the actual Mayor on his toes and ensure that he did his job. These important shadow Mayors would hold office for a year and were usually chosen at one of the seasonal fairs, such as Midsummer or Michaelmas. Abingdon in Oxfordshire is a good example of this, and around the time of the Summer Solstice citizens of the town would elect "the Mayor of Ock Street" (The main thoroughfare through the town). I think that whoever becomes Prime Minister should also share office with a Mock PM, to continually hold the head of Government to account! But we have had a mock PM for the last 3 years
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 11, 2022 12:56:40 GMT
Absolutely. If and when that question gets asked, get ready for lots of bullshit about efficiency and cutting out waste. What they really mean is cutting services. They are all proudly advocating austerity and virtually no one in the media has picked them up on it yet.
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Post by elystokie on Jul 11, 2022 13:39:29 GMT
In Medieval times, many towns had "Mock Mayors" who were usually slightly comic jester/fool type characters whose job it was to keep the actual Mayor on his toes and ensure that he did his job. These important shadow Mayors would hold office for a year and were usually chosen at one of the seasonal fairs, such as Midsummer or Michaelmas. Abingdon in Oxfordshire is a good example of this, and around the time of the Summer Solstice citizens of the town would elect "the Mayor of Ock Street" (The main thoroughfare through the town). I think that whoever becomes Prime Minister should also share office with a Mock PM, to continually hold the head of Government to account! But we have had a mock PM for the last 3 years Yes but not on purpose like this one was
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Post by andystokey on Jul 11, 2022 20:37:18 GMT
September 5th, we have to carry on with this shit show until September 5th? Bollocks to that, come on Kier, no confidence vote please.
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 11, 2022 20:43:40 GMT
The more that Simple Suella shows her hand, the more unpleasant she reveals herself to be.
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Post by lordb on Jul 11, 2022 20:51:36 GMT
September 5th, we have to carry on with this shit show until September 5th? Bollocks to that, come on Kier, no confidence vote please. Or do you let them dig themselves a deeper hole?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 11, 2022 20:55:14 GMT
September 5th, we have to carry on with this shit show until September 5th? Bollocks to that, come on Kier, no confidence vote please. Down to two by next Thursday though which is then put out to the membership Presumably at that point the contestants in the tax-off spend the summer touring the McCarthy-Stone complexes of the Home Counties to secure the vote of anyone still awake.
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Post by andystokey on Jul 11, 2022 20:55:18 GMT
September 5th, we have to carry on with this shit show until September 5th? Bollocks to that, come on Kier, no confidence vote please. Or do you let them dig themselves a deeper hole? I think forcing them to defend a PM that they all think is hopeless or changing their timetable for a leader is a no brainer. They don't need to push the GE button just the motion that he can't stay for 2 months.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 11, 2022 20:57:31 GMT
The more that Simple Suella shows her hand, the more unpleasant she reveals herself to be. “On taxpayers money; your money, my money” She missed a trick there. She could’ve mentioned those not declaring all their income, those with non-dom status (or close relatives with non-dom status) & those with off shore bank accounts that ‘support’ their finances. That would really show she meant business…
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Post by andystokey on Jul 11, 2022 20:58:38 GMT
The more that Simple Suella shows her hand, the more unpleasant she reveals herself to be. Are we going through the Thatcherite playbook? Single mums next?
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jul 11, 2022 21:31:01 GMT
Absolutely. If and when that question gets asked, get ready for lots of bullshit about efficiency and cutting out waste. What they really mean is cutting services. "Technological solutions"...
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jul 11, 2022 21:34:59 GMT
September 5th, we have to carry on with this shit show until September 5th? Bollocks to that, come on Kier, no confidence vote please. Parliament shuts down on 21st July. Re-opens on 5th September. It seems fair enough to me; summer entertainment watching two worms wriggle on the hook.
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 11, 2022 22:32:00 GMT
See ya, Saj.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 11, 2022 23:52:14 GMT
Not bothered who wins, but, as mentioned previously, the presidential style of government that Blair brought in and reached a nadir with Johnson has to change. Interesting then that one candidate, at least, has raised this. The Tory MPs who select the two final candidates should take this opportunity and ensure whoever becomes leader returns to “proper” government. Interesting that she chose to use a clip with Oscar Pistorious in it. And utterly appalling that she dares to use the murder of Jo Cox to promote her campaign too. They have absolutely no shame ...
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Post by wannabee on Jul 12, 2022 1:01:23 GMT
Everyone knows that the beauty pageant that is unfolding has only two aims Get into the last 2 standing to have an opportunity to impress the Blue Rince Brigade in the Shires
Pledges mean nothing, attainment of power is everything and do and say anything no matter how absurd to achieve your goal
Look at some of the 2019 Manifesto promises broken in 2 1/2 years (and don't say that was Boris because the vast majority of the candidates were Cabinet Collectively responsible)
1. 50K more Nurses and 6K more GPs promised Actual 25K more Nurses you could argue on target 1.4K LESS GPs Dismal Failure
2. Build 40 New Hospitals ... need I say more
3. 20K more Police. Actual 13.5K more which on the surface not too bad but the 20K increase was to replace the 20K they cut since 2010. You decide
4. Build 300K Houses a year by mid 2020s Actual 24K Houses LESS since Election I accept Covid halted a lot of Construction but this is Dismal There are no realistic Government plans to build any houses particularly affordable ones for key workers to actually live in the area they grew up The Pledge is a wing and a prayer that Private Construction may step up to the plate
5. Get Brexit Done. Well this Oven Ready Turkey is still not edible. Most of the Candidates seem to want to continue the Bun Fight with EU which threatens a Trade War when we can least afford one
6. No rises in Income Tax, NI or VAT Well the Hokey Kokey with NI blows this out of the water and again the majority of the Candidates were nodding dogs to this and are now falling over themselves to outbid each other to cut Taxes which would fuel Inflation already at its highest since the 1970s
7. Fix Social Care. Actual sometime in the distant future the NI Increases which now almost all Candidates want to reverse was to BEGIN to address the Social Care issues In the last year over 200K extra people are waiting for Social Care to a new number of 500K People This is a veritable Time Bomb waiting to explode as the Population ages. The only fall back is to enter Hospital Care when people's condition have worsened
Unsurprisingly the only conclusion I can draw, and you going to be surprised at this, is that Politicians tell lies (all parties)
As the Coronation proceeds we may get lucky and they pick the tallest Pygmy to win the contest because for sure we are in for a rough 18/24 months economically which may be alleviated if the right policies are pursued which would stimulate growth and FDI
The Contest will be entertaining nonetheless
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Post by superjw on Jul 12, 2022 7:54:37 GMT
Labour to table no confidence vote against the government, sky reporting.
Don't believe they can win anyway, it's just window dressing tbh
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 12, 2022 8:04:42 GMT
Labour to table no confidence vote against the government, sky reporting. Don't believe they can win anyway, it's just window dressing tbh It has no chance of succeeding but if/when the next PM votes to show confidence in Johnson, that will be heavily used against him/her by labour
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Post by Northy on Jul 12, 2022 8:06:53 GMT
Labour to table no confidence vote against the government, sky reporting. Don't believe they can win anyway, it's just window dressing tbh It has no chance of succeeding but if/when the next PM votes to show confidence in Johnson, that will be heavily used against him/her by labour It's pretty pathetic really, a waste of everyone's time, contempt to the voters who want to see time spent in HoP productively especially after Starmers constant swerving on policy questioning yesterday.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 12, 2022 8:11:31 GMT
It has no chance of succeeding but if/when the next PM votes to show confidence in Johnson, that will be heavily used against him/her by labour It's pretty pathetic really, a waste of everyone's time, contempt to the voters who want to see time spent in HoP productively especially after Starmers constant swerving on policy questioning yesterday. I disagree. And if I am a tory leader hopeful I would vote against Johnson, else you are a hypocrite. The country has no confidence in Johnson and want him gone asap. Starmer is doing what the public want. The tories are running scared from a general election despite having a massive majority. That shows how bad their government has been and why the country has no confidence in them. Starmer is doing the exact thing opposition should be doing. Also, you talk about time wasting. Almost every policy Johnson has had outside of covid has been a culture war policy. That’s time wasting, when the public are getting dramatically poorer and millions are struggling.
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Post by yeokel on Jul 12, 2022 8:41:06 GMT
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Post by Northy on Jul 12, 2022 9:03:06 GMT
It's pretty pathetic really, a waste of everyone's time, contempt to the voters who want to see time spent in HoP productively especially after Starmers constant swerving on policy questioning yesterday. I disagree. And if I am a tory leader hopeful I would vote against Johnson, else you are a hypocrite. The country has no confidence in Johnson and want him gone asap. Starmer is doing what the public want. The tories are running scared from a general election despite having a massive majority. That shows how bad their government has been and why the country has no confidence in them. Starmer is doing the exact thing opposition should be doing. Also, you talk about time wasting. Almost every policy Johnson has had outside of covid has been a culture war policy. That’s time wasting, when the public are getting dramatically poorer and millions are struggling. Johnson needed to go, he's resigned, everyone knows he's going, the process has started, parliament shuts for recess a week on Friday, the Tories aren't going to vote with Labour as they know a change is happening, it's pathetic timewasting, I'd have more time for Starmer if he actually said something positive about what he would do, give a few details, something to mull over.
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